Would you like to know the truth about Hell?

[BroRando]

35 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

The attitude portion is what He was speaking about in Matt23:15

Jesus wasn't speaking of (hell) in Matthew 23:15.....   the lake of fire is symbolism for everlasting destruction.  It's known as Gehenna and that is why the Greek calls it Gehenna.   Now, if you would like to provide a quote of scripture stating that he was actually speaking about (hell) the scripture would say so. I open to listen to it.  But this far you simply cite a verse you make the claim he was speaking about (hell) when he wasn't.  If the lake of fire is (hell) then it wouldn't be called Gehenna in the Greek.  Still waiting.......   Gehenna is the Greek name for the Valley of Hinnom, southwest of ancient Jerusalem. (Jer 7:31) It was prophetically spoken of as a place where dead bodies would be strewn. (Jer 7:32; 19:6) There is no evidence that animals or humans were thrown into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. So the place could not symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire. Rather, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize the eternal punishment of “second death,” that is, everlasting destruction, annihilation.—Re 20:14; Mt 5:22; 10:28.

 

[BroRando]

There are quotes in the Greek New Testament from the Old Testament.  For instance, Jesus read from the Book of Isaiah concerning him.  (Isaiah 61:1) The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me; because Jehovah hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;( Luk 4:18; 2Co 3:17 )

Now, notice the deception of the KJV and many other translations. "And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised," (Luke 4:17-18)

When the translators made copies of the quote, it was altered in the New Testament to strike out God's Name and any name that might have God's Name in it. And for those with some insight you can see Isaiah's Name was also changed to Esaias.  Isaiah means 'Salvation of Jehovah' and they could not have that now could they?   https://jehovahwitnessqhub.wordpress.com/2017/07/01/does-god-have-a-name/

 

 

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

When the translators made copies of the quote, it was altered in the New Testament to strike out God's Name and any name that might have God's Name in it.

What name should it be, because "Jehovah" is a created name by the Catholics?

Why should it be inserted?

Why should it be inserted in places that are not quotes? 

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

And for those with some insight you can see Isaiah's Name was also changed to Esaias.  Isaiah means 'Salvation of Jehovah' and they could not have that now could they?

Really? Are you serious? 

[BroRando]

29 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Really? Are you serious? 

Yes. Not only was Isaiah altered to  Esaias.  Also, Elijah which means 'My God is Jehovah' was altered to Elias.  The Catholic Church's main language was Latin or didn't you know that?  The same Catholic monk transliterated Iesous to Jesus, I don't hear you complaining about the name of Jesus.     In Latin, God's Name was spelled Iehovah or (YHWH), has you probably gathered by now, Latin has no 'J' either.       https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iehovah

The Angel sent to lead the Jews out of Egypt into the wilderness had authority to forgive sins or not. This was the Word of God and he had God's Name within him.  Do you have any idea what Jesus means at all??  Do your own research.  Me giving you the answers does not produce faith. 

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him” (Exodus 23:20-21 KJV)

Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.” (Luke 9:35)   Accepting Jesus as the Christ can add a profound meaning for your Life. 

Jesus when translated means ‘Jehovah is Salvation’. “For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matthew 23:39)  

 

[Shiwiii]

24 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

Scwinn: Are you a muslim?

nope

[Shiwiii]

2 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

 The same Catholic monk transliterated Iesous to Jesus, I don't hear you complaining about the name of Jesus.

I'm not the one complaining about a name anyway. I'm just saying that NO ONE knows what God's name given to the Jews was spelled or pronounced. So being so adamant on the use of "Jehovah" and inserting it into scripture where it is never found, is ridiculous. 

 

5 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

Me giving you the answers.......

you have yet to give any, only side topics and strawman arguments. 

[JW Insider]

7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Sure, here is a brief description on how I see hell.

Thanks for the answer to my question. It's interesting. I'm away for a few days and would like to respond when I get back home.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Sometimes, where you went , is not where are going ......

 

[BroRando]

On 7/19/2017 at 3:13 PM, Shiwiii said:

If you do then you have somehow managed to keep this from the rest of the world which would carry with it plenty of skepticism. 

I realize that, but I might lose you to the lake of fire.   It's my hope that nobody is destroyed, but come to a repentance. Anyways, it should be on a different subject.  Christians are baptised in the Name of Christ not an three pronged formula.  Many reject that Jesus can resurrect people from 'Hell" which is Satan's Way to get you to deny the power of Christ. 

[JW Insider]

On 7/21/2017 at 1:22 PM, Shiwiii said:

Sure, here is a brief description on how I see hell. Jesus spoke of Hell/Gehenna in the following verses,

Matt 5:22-30, Matt 10:28, Matt 11:23, Matt 16:18, Matt 18:9, Matt 23:15&3, Mark 9:43&45&47, Luke 10:15, Luke 12:5, Luke 16:23

When Jesus spoke of hell, He spoke about a place most of the time. It was a place of destruction and also an attitude or character flaw. The attitude portion is what He was speaking about in Matt23:15, saying that the Pharisees and hypocrites convert someone into their way of thinking or character and it makes them even more deceived than they themselves because the hypocrites already know the truth but yet stray away and draw others as well. As for a specific place? Well, I’m not really concerned if there is or is not a specific place under the earth or whatever. However, it is a place, a place in time. When Jesus spoke of being cast into hell without an eye or hand, it wasn’t about being tormented day and night forever with two eyes or hands, it was more about the time when hell and death are destroyed ( Rev 20) and Jesus wants NO ONE to have that fate.

There are other verses which speak of hell and I think they elaborate a bit further on the explanation of hell. For instance in Rev 20, when death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. Is it tangible? Is it figurative? It is both? In Rev verse 13 speaks of those who are in hell being delivered up for judgement. So are they contained in some place? Peter in his second letter said that hell was a place of darkness with the capacity to hold those there in reserve until judgement. I do believe hell is a place and the torment is not inflicted by God, but by those persons themselves for winding up facing destruction at the second death and having to wait until that judgment.

If both terms can mean destruction, I can't tell if you distinguish in the same way between Hades and Gehenna. Naturally, I think it makes a lot of sense that Revelation shows Death and Hades thrown into a "Gehenna" (lake of fire), which is a fitting symbolism for the final destruction of Death and the Grave, through resurrection and the potential of eternal life, where the only type of death that remains is total destruction, a second death.  When I first noticed that the 2013 Revised NWT was going to begin translating "Ha'des" as "Grave," I quickly rushed over to Matthew 10:28 to see if Gehenna might appear as "Destruction" with a capital "D."

With this in mind, some have translated Matt 23:15 with

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. -- NKJV

If this term "Gehenna" had become "Destruction" the verse could have read: "you make him twice as much a son of Destruction as yourselves" and then it would match the idea of persons like Judas and a person like the Antichrist.

(John 17:12) 12 When I was with them, I used to watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me; and I have protected them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

(2 Thessalonians 2:3) 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.

It would mesh well with other Biblical references.

(Revelation 9:11) 11 They have over them a king, the angel of the abyss. In Hebrew his name is A·badʹdon [Destruction], but in Greek he has the name A·polʹlyon [Destroyer].

(Matthew 10:28) . . .fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.

Do you believe that the "torment" is only at the time of facing destruction? You mention 2 Peter where the word is Tartarus a word known from Greek mythology, and already used in the OT LXX (e.g., Job) a prison of darkness for the lesser gods/spirits. These spirit creatures are said to be alive and waiting in prison for the judgment. Do you believe that the "spirit" of humans who await resurrection also include those who will be resurrected to judgment? If so, do you think those spirits can be in a kind of "torment" while waiting, or do they possibly feel the "torment" after Hades is destroyed?

[BroRando]

Thank you for the references.  However, I must stand firm that (Hell) was a later insertion of the scriptures.  Jesus did speak of death, the grave, and gehenna.  Even though the Great Apostasy that began with the death of the Apostles.  Jesus never spoke about (Hell).  It's a trinitarian doctrine along with the false teaching that the soul never dies. Scripture state otherwise. "the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4)

Take Care.

Brother Rando

 

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, Brother Rando said:

Jesus never spoke about (Hell).

Despite stating the obvious, of course he didn''t because he didnt speak English. Isn't the problem just about the ambiguity of meaning attached to this word rather than the word itself? 

Could you clarify some points for me please?

• Am I right in thinking your position to be that the actual use of the Greek word Hades is a spurious insertion into the text of the original Greek Scriptures?
• What word do you believe was used by the original writers where the word "Hades" currently appears in the Greek (other than in a quotation from the LXX translation of the Hebrew scriptures)?
• Do you think the version of the LXX quoted by the original Greek Scripture writers used the word Hades as a translation for Sheol?