JW's mistaken claim...

[Cos]

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:06 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

John 1:1

       In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.      KJV

1 In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.* NWT from JWorg

Mr Sostar,

 

And it can easily be shown that the NWT is the incorrect rendering. <><

[Cos]

In a systematic biblical examination on the Deity of the Lord Jesus students of the Bible look at three major contributing factors;

1.    Jesus’ names and titles which establish that He is God.

2.    Jesus’ attributes (the things that only God can do) validate He is God.

3.    Jesus’ abilities (the things that Jesus has done) confirm He is God.

 

Concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ, we have in the Bible's direct statements that he is God. This is what JWs twist and say is not found in the Bible.

 

Jesus’ names and titles. This is an important and interesting study (recommended for all) about the names and titles that were given to Jesus, for example, in Matthew 1:21 it says that His name shall be called Yehoshua (Hebrew for Jesus), which means “Yahweh is salvation.”

 

Some of you will read that and say, in a nice way, “Well wait a minute. You could call somebody “Jesus” today (as some were named in Biblical times) and it is just a testimony to the fact that Yahweh (Jehovah) will save. It’s not saying that Jesus is Yahweh.”

 

Well only when on its own while ignoring the rest of the verse would this line of reasoning be valid, but we have a multitude of examples that show that the opposite is the case. So instead please read carefully what the verse actually says, note the specific personal pronouns that all refer to the one to be born.

 

“She will give birth to a son, and you are to NAME HIM Jesus, for HE (Greek αὐτὸς) will save HIS people from their sins” (Matt 1:21 NWT emphasis mine)

 

We note here that the word  αὐτὸς is emphatic; and rightly so “For it is He that (he is the one who) shall save his people from their sins.”

 

In this case the one to be born is being identified by His name. Who, in the eternal purpose He is, really and absolutely, in Himself; the very substance of His being, God the Saviour – God who saves, Immanuel (Matt 1:23).

 

I have been very, very brief here, however I do hope to stimulate further interest. <><

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Cos said:

further interest.

I have no specific attitude about who is Father and who is Son, and who is Holy Spirit/Ghost. Even/ although i was ex-JW i am open to different explanation. Bible verses gives sometimes opposite ideas on same subject.  

[Cos]

Hello Mr. Sostar,

 

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 4:11 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Bible verses gives sometimes opposite ideas on same subject.  

The “opposite ideas” is, in most cases, the result of when a person approaches the Bible verses with some pre-conceived thought.

I need to ask, what made you leave the Watchtower? <><

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Cos said:

with some pre-conceived thought.

... that must not always be the case. People belongings to something are strong force that make them to stick to that what is familiar to them. And because such predestined opinion, standpoint, belif,  are not willing to hear nothing different/opposite. 

I the beginning of WT, Russell and similar people was been able to skip that obstacle, they searching for something "better". Better or not it is for other discussion. They were "reformators". And that is good to the some point. But as we see, all are fall in similar or same trap. They became dogmatic and "force" others to accept same attitude. They force members to accept and believe to dogmatic explanations so far as that same main church body, aka GB in the WT case, not decided to change "the dogma", particular teaching. And then members, who must be followers, are called to reject "preconceived thought" aka belief and to accept new "preconceived thought" aka "new light" as god's revelation to GB aka mediator between god and JW people.  

Some Catholic, Protestants, Muslim etc embraced JWorg teachings, some not. Were those persons who refused JW explanation "preconceived" ?? Some JW explanation have better logic than Catholic explanation, but that not must give reason/prove how this "new" JW explanation is truth and will stay truth forever. We, who was in JW religion for longer time was been able to compared "evolution" (in whatever direction, good or bad) of WT JWorg  teological thoughts and so much wandering. And where they, WT, are now? In the era of free mass communication, people are able to see how this WT Company are not different than some other company, religious, political or marketing company. 

So, how we should, need to approach to JW religion, to Catholic religion... to Bible?? With how much open mind? With how much preconceived, sceptic or open approach?   We have good chance to be deceived or to deceive ourselves by own reasoning. In any way we are losers, of some kind :)))  

Did old JW was "losers" in some way, despite the fact how they are/was the only one true religion, according to WT JWorg western civilization preconceived thought and belief? If that is so, no matter of changes that later came on Jew scene, are all that Jew nation was not now in JHVH disfavor, according to JWorg? So why all that effort of old Jew and century of beliefs how they are god's chosen nation, when they are not, according to JW org?  

What if the same thing is also happens with JWorg? Despite the strong self conviction, belief, prejudice of JW clergy and members how they alone are the only true religion? God choose old Jew and rejected them, again according to Christian doctrine, and why would not this same JHVH repeat again the same pattern, choose WT JWorg and after some time reject them? Are JWorg position is so strong and that will not happen to them? What if that already happened? 

I found how something is wrong with WT and not want to be part of it. I am not "reformator" :)))   

[Srecko Sostar]

1. To Society Watch Tower, Watchtower and corporations

2. To Jehovah's Witnesses and all assemblies

3. To all whom this concern

 

Declaration on termination of membership to a religious community of Jehovah's Witnesses

 

            I was baptized in 1977 at the age of 17, then a minor. But, in good faith I answered the following two questions just before baptism, which is symbolized my dedication to God in terms of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses religion.

At that time (before the change of June 1 1985) questions have read as follows;

A)    Have you repented of your sins and converted, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

B)     On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

 

            Since I have over decades closely followed the changes in various aspects of activity of this religion, I noticed some frequent collisions (1 John 4:1; 1 Th 5:21). It is visible in: a) the content of the various interpretations; b) in the theory and practice of action in everyday life issues. Overview of many historical aspects of the spiritual heritage, which the organization has, since its inception in the 19th century, left to its members-followers, and wants to cover it up, revise and incorrect display, is astounding. Who wants to drink a water from a cup in which there is a single drop of dangerous substances?

            The purpose of my statement is not to explain doctrine and practices of society and the board of directors, who are disturbed my conscience and reasoning within the love, faith, knowledge and understanding that I feel and I have to God and Jesus Christ and to the people, so I will taxatively single out only a few of them (Rom 14:4). These are obvious example, on the one hand, theological acrobatics from the main church body of Jehovah's Witnesses, and on the other hand, their dishonesty and practice in which one they are learns, and other they are works;

1) Confusing conceptions about their own identity (Who shared spiritual food? One servant, all 144 000, a composite body or the governing body ...,)

2) Pragmatism in changing dogmatic interpretations before the change was "firmly biblical established", such as a series of explanations about the "generation" ...,

3) Speculation about the meaning of biblical statements and how they should be understood. More than once the revised interpretation were in style of YES-NO-YES-NO; then this year's "changed approach to the interpretation of reports from the Word of God" ...,

4) Switching of responsibility from the governing body and their representatives on the ordinary believers in respect of the decisions and attitudes that members should be carried out, when it becomes apparent that they were endangered spiritually, mentally and literally health of fellow believers  (eg, multiple expectations of Armageddon, Malawi and Mexico of the 1970s, questions about blood, juvenile members / Bulgaria /, neutrality ...,)

5) Co-operation and association with political organizations such as the UN and the OSCE.

6) Increasingly open calls for financial donations and contributions to the funds of the corporation.

7) Careless and unkind treatment of victims of pedophilia within the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses

 

            Regardless of how, as collective or personal, members of the Jehovah's Witnesses will treat me after this letter of resignation, considering the worldwide-known practice of ignoring and avoiding (shunning) that Jehovah's Witnesses apply to all who are outside of their religion ("worldly" people, dissociated and disfellowshipped) - I with fully conscious and reason declare still this; My relationship with the people / persons in the Jehovah's Witness religion and those who are not, is based on the words of Jesus; "Love your neighbor as yourself"; "Love those who hate you"; "Whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them."

 

I expecting from you, that any kind of information which is stored anywhere, in connection with me and has my full name, such as personal files, or any other files you immediately destroy!

 

 

Zagreb, July 27/2015                                          Srećko Šoštar -------------

                                   Verified by notary public

[Cos]

Mr. Sostar,

 

I can see from what you say that you have some strong convictions, thank you for sharing them.

 

You say that some “Catholic, Protestants, Muslim etc embraced JW teachings”, please give examples. I know Muslim’s agree with some of the JW beliefs, but that is only because it follows their own preconceived view.

 

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 Some JW explanation have better logic than Catholic explanation, 

 

I’m not a Roman Catholic so I don’t know to which “explanation” you refer, but from the many discussions I have had with JWs, I know that a lot of the JW “logic” is not biblical.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

...to Bible?? With how much open mind? With how much preconceived, sceptic or open approach?   We have good chance to be deceived or to deceive ourselves by own reasoning. In any way we are losers, of some kind :)))  

 

I read this and then felt sorry for you because of what you say. I think you leaving the Watchtower religion has soured you to the Scriptures. I do think that a clear examination of our mental behaviors would help us when we approach the Scriptures but your comments show a clear disillusion in them. <><

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Cos said:

You say that some “Catholic, Protestants, Muslim etc embraced JW teachings”, please give examples.

I thought on people who changed their faith/beliefs, leave parents religion and came to be JW. 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Cos said:

clear examination of our mental behaviors would help us when we approach the Scriptures

Mr Cos, please explain me more about these  

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Cos said:

I’m not a Roman Catholic so I don’t know to which “explanation” you refer, but from the many discussions I have had with JWs, I know that a lot of the JW “logic” is not biblical.

My full quote: "Some JW explanation have better logic than Catholic explanation, but that not must give reason/prove how this "new" JW explanation is truth and will stay truth forever."

So, we agree in looking on issue.

Some examples of not logical or not biblical would be; celibat, forgiving of sins by priest, using idols in worshiping god, baptism of babies, pope as leader and one who is inerrable.  

[DeeDee]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 1:57 AM, Cos said:

“She will give birth to a son, and you are to NAME HIM Jesus, for HE (Greek αὐτὸς) will save HIS people from their sins” (Matt 1:21 NWT emphasis mine)

John 6:37–40

All those whom the FATHER gives ME will come to ME,

and I will never drive away the one who comes to ME;

³⁸ for I have come down from heaven to do, NOT MY own will,

but the will of HIM who sent ME.

³⁹ This is the will of HIM who sent ME,

that I should lose none out of all those whom HE has given ME,

but that I should resurrect them on the last day.

⁴⁰ For this is the will of MY FATHER,

that everyone who recognizes the SON and exercises FAITH in HIM

should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

[Srecko Sostar]

Bible contents various verses and description about some heavenly persons. @DeeDee 

Terminology that are used in naming person can assure us how Bible speaks only about one person, BUT sometimes the same names, titles are used for somebody else.

But this conclusion in my second sentence above can be true or error - IF reader (believer) trusts in one of various concepts, explanations, teachings on issue - Who is God?

Somebody believes in three persons who are in one person. Somebody in three persons who are separate but acting as one person. Somebody believes, as JW, in two persons and crude (natural,raw)force.

In various WT explanation on various bible verses, as in example of Isaiah chapters  9, 44, 48 (Mighty God, Everlasting Father, //first and last//) they said how this verses describing Jesus Christ the Son of God JHVH.  AND  about Revelation (Alpha and Omega- first and last) they said how AO is JHVH, despite fact how book of Revelation is about Jesus and his second coming.

Rev 1  "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Rev 1 "When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

Rev 21  Then He said to me, "It is done I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. (go to Isaiah again)

Rev 22 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Old testament and New Testament contents same attributes, names, titles for JHVH and Son ( in concept of JW religion as two different, separate persons with different even opposite attributes)

ABOUT John 6 and  Father - Son description.  What if Jesus in his explanation using only possibility that he can used in/for describing to humans (we "stupid" humans with our own similar or different limited and conceptual prejudices about unknown) about himself. The concept of Father and son is something what is close to humans experience, everyday life, cognitive and intellectual acceptance and more of all religious acceptance. Because it is "normal" that God is immortal and can not dye, but Jesus will die, so he can not be God. Only, just god (small g) or in the best and only option he can be "The Son of God". Which is also blasphemy according to Jew, as we read in Bible, because that can mean how God came from heaven and have wife, and with his wife he have son. And this son became Son of God. See, you have in both examples very questionable issue. With very hard explanation on issue. AS Jew they know about angels came in time of Noah and how their, angels children's also can and was called as "god's sons and daughters", because angels also have title/name "gods".
See how was difficult for Jew to accept Jesus as SON OF GOD?! HOW more blasphemy would be if Jesus represent himself as GOD himself and their FATHER as he is (or he is not that) in the book of Isaiah (according to WT, words in Isaiah are about Jesus, he is Everlasting Father and as i recall in WT book Prince of peace, WT called JHVH as grandfather of humankind)

When old  Jew read this particular verses in Isaiah about "Everlasting Father and Mighty God" and others titles... on whom they think that HE is??? -  god Jesus or god JHVH ??