JW's mistaken claim...

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Consider NEWTON's track record, compared to any other natural person who has ever lived.

In anything he published, even after his death .... Newton was NEVER wrong.

Christendom, the political empire disguised as a religion, is responsible for slaughtering A HALF BILLION people, in Europe alone, in the last 1700 years .... and during World War One, killed a MILLION of their brethren on the border between Germany and France, in ONE year long battle.

Those that espouse TRINITARIAN BELIEFS KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Hundreds of MILLIONS of PEOPLE.

The proof of any "philosophy" is how it works out in real life.

All else is FANTASY.

If a horse in a race is wearing a cowbell and says "MOOO!", perhaps you don't want to bet on THAT one.

 

[Cos]

Newton also got things wrong like universal gravitation, and the claim that time was absolute when its not and Unitarianism...just to name a few!

[Cos]

48 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

No problem, apparently on another forum it is a meme if you are a non-Trinitarian they will assume your faith right off the bat, sometimes with negativity, but I am use to it.

I do know of the history, and the controversy behind it, even of what isn't mention.

Also, Biblical Unitarians are typically or some what Socinian in Christology, not Arian or Semi-Arian.

What you mentioned about writings, I invite you to check out these two videos on a clear analysis on the Nicea controversy, the things that has not been mentioned:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLqm4KYqQlU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBUbhN-4waE

As well as this book: https://books.google.com/books/about/When_Jesus_Became_God.html?id=CUxsmAEACAAJ&hl=en

Whereas Robert doesn't take sides, but clearly explains the things that went about prior to and during the Council, even afterwards.

 

That being said, what I mentioned about the blog-post, there is several who believe that "a god" is correct over "was God". There are more who speak on the rendering of John 1:1 then just the one guy you mentioned.

I remember seeing a guy who spoke in behalf of JWs on YouTube who has put together an excellent presentation regarding the Coptics and why the JWs as well as those who agree with the rendering of John 1:1. If I find that video I will post it, I will essentially have to go YouTube diving to find it, the video is that old, other videos also share the same information in regards to John 1:1.

Space merchant,

 

Although you seem to deny Unitarianism and Arianism similarity, there is no doubt you both share the same concepts.

 

Anyway, I suggest you read the writings of Christians before the fourth century, which show historically that the Arian concept (shared by Unitarians) was not even heard of. <><

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

4 hours ago, Cos said:

Newton also got things wrong like universal gravitation, and the claim that time was absolute when its not and Unitarianism...just to name a few!

How about addressing the "Elephant in the Room"?

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Christendom, the political empire disguised as a religion, is responsible for slaughtering A HALF BILLION people, in Europe alone, in the last 1700 years .... and during World War One, killed a MILLION of their brethren on the border between Germany and France, in ONE year long battle.

Those that espouse TRINITARIAN BELIEFS KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

Hundreds of MILLIONS of PEOPLE.

The proof of any "philosophy" is how it works out in real life.

All else is FANTASY.

If a horse in a race is wearing a cowbell and says "MOOO!", perhaps you don't want to bet on THAT one.

Bad theology produces bad results.

[DeeDee]

May people know that YOU,

whose name is Jehovah,

You alone are the Most High over all the earth. – Ps. 83:18

 

Please read this Scripture in your own Bible.

Note: the name Jehovah is in the King James Version:

           18 That men may know that thou,

                 whose name ALONE  is JEHOVAH,

                 art the MOST HIGH  over all the earth.

 

John chapter 17 is a long, heart-felt prayer that Jesus prays to Jehovah.

There is no way to conclude anything other than

Jesus is praying to his father Jehovah in this passage.

 

Here is part of the long, heart-felt prayer that Jesus prays to Jehovah in John 17.

Note especially what the man Jesus says to God at verse 5.

 

17 JESUS spoke these things,

and raising his eyes to heaven,

he said: “Father, the hour has come.

Glorify YOUR SON so that YOUR SON may glorify YOU,

² just as YOU have given HIM authority over all flesh,

so that HE may give everlasting life to all those whom YOU have given to HIM.

 

³ THIS means EVERLASTING LIFE,

their coming to know YOU, the ONLY true GOD, [this ONLY GOD is Jehovah – Ps. 83:18]

and the one whom YOU sent, Jesus Christ.

 

⁴ I have glorified YOU on the earth,

having finished the work YOU have given ME to do.

 

⁵ So now, Father, glorify ME at your side

with the glory THAT I HAD alongside you BEFORE the WORLD was.

 

⁶ “I have made YOUR name manifest [that is, the name Jehovah – Ps. 83:18]

to the men whom YOU gave me out of the world.

They were YOURS, and YOU gave them to ME,

and they have observed YOUR word.

 

⁷ Now they have come to know that

all the things YOU gave ME are from YOU;

⁸ because I have given them the sayings that YOU gave ME,

and they have accepted them

and have certainly come to know

that I CAME as YOUR representative,

and they have believed that YOU SENT ME.

 

A final thought…

Jesus says at John 8:32 “and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

[DeeDee]

Note also, Matt. 3:16, 17:

¹⁶ After being baptized,

Jesus immediately came up from the water;

and look! the heavens were opened up,

and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove

and coming upon him.

 

¹⁷ Look! Also, a voice from the heavens said:

“This is MY SON, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

[Cos]

Folks, the early church writers discussed and rebuked many false teaching, but nowhere do they even mention anything that resembles the JW form of religion or even the Unitarian form of religion until the Arians of fourth century. Surely if a group resembling the JW/Unitarian religion were present before the fourth century then the early church writers would have said something about them, but nothing.

 

Instead here is some of what they did say;

 

Irenaeus (120-202) "For I have shown from the scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the scriptures would not have testified these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man.” (Against Heresies, book 3, chapter 19).

 

Tertullian (155-220) "Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, one essence, not one Person” (Against Praxeas, chapter 25)

 

Hippolytus  (170-235) “A man, therefore, even though he will it not, is compelled to acknowledge God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus the Son of God, who, being God, became man, to whom also the Father made all things subject, Himself excepted, and the Holy Spirit; and that these, therefore, are three.” (Against The Heresy Of One Noetus, section 8).

 

This is just a few examples of what the early Christians believed and taught before Arianism and its later spin offs; there are many more examples that could be called on.

 

Some, like Mr. Rook, want to blame Christians for all that is wrong in the world like. They will ignore the continual rise of false political idealism to blame Trinitarians for wars. But this kind of self-righteous attitude does not disprove that God is Triune. <><

[DeeDee]

1 hour ago, Cos said:

God is Triune.

The triune aspect of God is actually a Pagan belief.

Many of the Pagan Gods and Goddesses were in a triple form.

In an effort to convert the pagan nations to Christianity,

the early Christian church adopted many Pagan customs, holidays and beliefs

including promoting the Triple God concept for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[DeeDee]

13 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

the early Christian church adopted many Pagan customs, holidays and beliefs

God warned his people to not adopt the ways of the nearby pagan nations.

God does not approve of pagans.

This is why true Christians do not practice the pagan customs that are practiced by Christendom today.

[DeeDee]

2 hours ago, Cos said:

the early church writers ...nowhere do they even mention anything that resembles the JW form of religion ... until the Arians of fourth century.

JW's obey the teachings of Jesus. For example, at Matt. 28:19, 20 Jesus tells his disciples:

“Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them … teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you…”

So the JW's obey that command by teaching the people of all the nations.

 

[Cos]

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

The triune aspect of God is actually a Pagan belief.

Many of the Pagan Gods and Goddesses were in a triple form.

In an effort to convert the pagan nations to Christianity,

the early Christian church adopted many Pagan customs, holidays and beliefs

including promoting the Triple God concept for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Ms DeeDee,

 

One thing needs to be understood, the devil counterfeits the truth. In many pagan religions there is the story of a dying and raising saviour, many also have a creation story, etc, etc; are you to nullify the Bible teaching on these because the devil tries to confuse the truth? I should hope not because that's what he wants you to do!

 

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

Many of the Pagan Gods and Goddesses were in a triple form.

In my younger days as part of my curriculum I had studied mythology, to which “pagan gods and goddesses” are you referring to that were “in a triple form”? <><

[Cos]

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

JW's obey the teachings of Jesus. For example, at Matt. 28:19, 20 Jesus tells his disciples:

“Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them … teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you…”

So the JW's obey that command by teaching the people of all the nations.

 

Ms DeeDee,

 

2000 years ago Jesus said His church would NEVER cease to exist...so where has the JWs form of religion being for so long? <><