Demonism and the Watchtower

[Anna]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Ah. Here it is:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/09/20/september-23-end-of-world-theory/

 

Oh wow, the Egyptian pyramids are back!

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

'm in i'm in!      Wait.................... which generation is this for? 

Well I'm assuming it's the 23rd of this month this year so it appears no one living today will be left out!

[Shiwiii]

6 minutes ago, Anna said:

I have discussed this under the appropriate topic already. My opinion is the overlapping generation makes no sense, and it doesn't make sense to quite a number of other Witnesses either. On the other hand, it does makes sense to quite a number too, and I am not going to argue with them. Opinion is opinion after all.....

Thank you for the reply. Interesting

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, Anna said:

akin to believing angel Moroni giving the golden tablets to Joseph Smith

Akin? Except that it is unlikely there is an angel Moroni. I have my doubts about the existence of the gold plates as well.

Formerly anointed ones now in heaven? No problem with that. Communications with earthly servants of Jehovah, even those with a heavenly hope? Dunno, but on balance, I think more likely than the gold plates. I'll leave someone else to determine the probability ratio.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The Governing Body in Warwick lets outsiders use their Lobby telephones

so they can call up and talk to dead relatives.

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  . 

From Tel Aviv, a three minute phone call is $4250.00

From Salt Lake City, a three minute phone call is $11,200.00.

From the Vatican, a three minute phone call is an even $25,000.00.

From Warwick, a three minute phone call is free.

... it's a local call.

[Anna]

30 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Akin? Except that it is unlikely there is an angel Moroni. I have my doubts about the existence of the gold plates as well.

I know, a slight exaggeration on my part. But the point that I was trying to make is that this kind of thing no longer happens, regardless whether there is an angel  Moroni  or not. To me it's as bad as saying one of the anointed in heaven (who DO exist) communicating with one of the anointed on earth.  We are not like the Mormons or any other religion who believes in this kind of thing happening now. That’s why I find that WT statement unique, and totally out of character. In fact, it has probably made some friends believe that the anointed on earth (the Slave in particular) have some kind of direct line to Jehovah whereby they receive instructions directly from the heavenly realm, and then being stumbled when they find out this cannot be the case because if it were, they wouldn’t be making the mistakes they do.  This is why the Slave deemed it necessary to remind the flock that they are neither inspired nor infallible, whereby communication from the heavenly realm, in the sense we have been discussing, is included I assume....

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The acceptance of communication with the spirit world for the purpose of gaining secret knowledge, no matter who initiated it, might be spiritism

Regardless of the exceptional nature of the communication from the spirit realm regarding the sacred secret of the Christ, it is, nevertheless, what it is. "In other generations this [secret] was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by spirit" (Eph.3:5).

I am afraid that this attempt to define spiritism thus fails for me in it's vagueness:

"The acceptance of communication with the spirit world for the purpose of gaining secret knowledge, no matter who initiated it, might be spiritism. This does not mean that all forms of communication with the spirit world is included" quote @JWInsider

It fails because secret knowedge was imparted to humans from the spirit world and the process by which it has been done cannot be classed as spiritism. Interestingly, "into these very things, angels are desiring to peer." (1Pet.1:12). I will have to give some thought to rewording the definition to be more specific and clear, in a word, definite!

As for Brother Albert, I do not care if he feels he gets special communication from the spirit realm any more than I would question if he claimed to be one of the anointed. (That claim in itself is in response to a communication from the spirit realm is it not?). My concern would be more focused on what those "revelations" were to comprise, whether or not they were in harmony with the Scriptures as we currently understand them, and whether or not he was seeking to promulgate any of these "revelations". He would also get my attention if he were to promote attempts to engage in communication with the spirit world outside of the acceptable channel of prayer.

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It is a work of the flesh, because people have a desire to claim special knowledge, have their ego stroked, to claim special privilege, or special gifts. It's often because they want to be able to Lord it over their fellow man.

I go along with this. I also think that "spiritism" (druggery as it is anciently termed) is also a work of the flesh because it panders to some perverted aspect of fallen humanity in the same way that it's proponents sought after flesh for unnatural use in the days of Noah (Gen.6:2).
 

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/09/20/september-23-end-of-world-theory/

Yeah this one is everyewhere. I have a return visit with a proponent of this idea. On September 24th.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

Yeah this one is everyewhere. I have a return visit with a proponent of this idea. On September 24th.

I've worked this idea for a while and know how to spot the day of the end:

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2011/05/how-to-predict-the-end-of-the-world.html

[Anna]

2 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

As for Brother Albert, I do not care if he feels he gets special communication from the spirit realm any more than I would question if he claimed to be one of the anointed.

I wouldn’t care either, except I’d think he was a little cuckoo. We have a sister in our hall who claims she is of the anointed. Sometimes she walks through the aisles during the meeting  and says she is “working”. She will go up to people while they are having a conversation and tell them  she has had a communication from heaven telling her such and such....I forget  what  plethora of things. She doesn’t like me.  I can feel her eyes boring into the back of my head every now and again. Apparently, in one of her conversations with the heavenly realms I have been judged unworthy. But then again so has our overseer, and he is a super nice guy.... so I might still stand a chance...

Otherwise she seems quite normal

[Anna]

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

I noticed you seem to take what the Watchtower article, suggested toward the GB of neither inspired nor infallible to heart. What is your clear understanding on that? You keep implying it as an absolute, so, please, ascertain your meaning.

Well,....the Awake #3  in the topic IS THE BIBLE REALLY FROM GOD?  “INSPIRED”—WHAT DOES IT MEAN? states: .....the expression “inspired of God” means that the Source of the information in those writings is God......... Some Bible writers actually heard God’s message conveyed audibly by an angel. Others saw visions from God. In some cases, God communicated his message in the form of dreams   

The Insight book  p. 1206  says this: Inspiration The quality or state of being moved by or produced under the direction of a spirit from a superhuman source…….. “Inspired Expressions”—True and False. The Greek word pneu′ma (spirit) is used in a special manner in some apostolic writings. At 2 Thessalonians 2:2, for example, the apostle Paul urges his Thessalonian brothers not to get excited or shaken from their reason “either through an inspired expression [literally, “spirit”] or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.” It is clear that Paul uses the word pneu′ma (spirit) in connection with means of communication, such as the “verbal message” or “letter.” For this reason Lange’s Commentary on the Holy Scriptures (p. 126) says on this text: “By this the Apostle intends a spiritual suggestion, pretended prediction, utterance of a prophet.” (Translated and edited by P. Schaff, 1976) Vincent’s Word Studies in the New Testament states: “By spirit. By prophetic utterances of individuals in Christian assemblies, claiming the authority of divine revelations.” (1957, Vol. IV, p. 63) Thus, while some translations simply render pneu′ma in this and similar cases as “spirit,” other translations read “message of the Spirit” (AT), “prediction” (JB), “inspiration” (D’Ostervald; Segond [French]), “inspired expression” (NW)".

So, the Slave is not inspired i.e. does not receive any communications from the spirit realm. But they are spirit directed (as we all are to a certain extend) and there is a difference.

I will let Br. Jackson explain what it means being spirit directed:

Q By what mechanism would you understand God's spirit to direct your decisions?

Br. Jackson:  "Well, what I mean by that is, by prayer and using our constitution, God's word, we would go through the scriptures and see if there was any biblical principle at all that would influence our decision - and it could be that in our initial discussions there was something that maybe we were missing and then in another discussion that would come to light.  So we would view that as God's spirit motivating us because we believe the Bible is God's word and came by means of holy spirit". Source: ARC public hearing

So in summary, to say that one of the anointed may have received some kind of communication from one of the anointed in heaven regarding the great crowd is not in line with anything we believe regarding that kind of communication happening IN OUR DAY. The way Jehovah communicates with us today is through the Bible.

[TrueTomHarley]

On 9/19/2017 at 5:23 PM, Shiwiii said:

It's thoughts like these that make me question the devotion to each and every teaching that comes from the wt's mouth as if it WERE from God. Obey or else!

You shouldn't keep carrying on like this because it is just silly. Unless you are bellicose or in-your-face about it, it is perfectly possible to hold views outside of the mainstream on the lesser points you harp on. Many do, as you have seen. By now you have gone through several threads participated in by mature ones, who are obviously not in cahoots with one another, who all make clear that your beef is so only in your own mind.

Things you say about Jehovah's Witnesses are either wrong, exaggerated, misinterpreted, or attributable to occasional human error.