The Holy Spirit

[Space Merchant]

17 hours ago, Cos said:

No bible version translates the Greek word ?????????? as “yielded up” no matter how some try to twist translations; they just like to build an argument around what is not there. But of course those that read their ideas into Scripture will continue to do so regardless. The meaning of the word ?????????? is, “the keeping of”.

That is quite the response, but no cigar to claim whatsoever. We are not talking about Translations as you are seen here saying, but rather the expression itself. But let's say we include Translations of any kind, regardless of the Translations, the Strong's still stand, the very reason we have the Strong's to begin with, so it shows us if something is exact and or in total respects to the manuscripts of which we have, namely the Septuagint, no Johannine Comma or Textus Receptus nonsense, just the 4th century source and nothing but.

The irony is in regards to I commend my Spirit and or Yielded up, even the Strong's agree with what I said and it predates both you and me, this goes for the other forms of commentary of said verse as well as an explicit explanation of what Jesus met before he expired, the very reason why some verses from the Gospel of Mark had been mentioned by some. But last I recall, you were twisting a specific word from the Strong's to follow a belief of the very people you rant and rave about on a random child-like basis - Arians. They, perhaps, love Jesus worship instead of God himself as much as you do, therefore, you not being aware of shooting shots at your own points to you acting and being hypocritical and being ignorant of any knowledge based on such one's Christology - remember, they also believe Jesus, as well as the Spirit are Gods also.

I gave you a link straight to Bible Hub which shows you the Strong's itself, of which my information points to, thus making you fail to proof I am saying such out of the blue. Simply addressing the Strong's and the full as well as in context of a passage, verse, phrase, word and or expression points people to truth.

That being said, this is why your Greek was called into question before, as it was done months ago because you lack it, and show for it. I haven't skipped a beat with a Language I have actually studied for over a decade now and I would never make such a mistake when it comes to a word, an expression, and or a phrase, etc. used, thus I am able to point out a violation of Language as they say in regards to what you have said. No facts you can bring sparks any agreement as to hat you have said regarding this word, therefore, it is only you pulling your own opinions out of your Hat of Magic tricks, Cos or perhaps some word-pad on the device you are using. Furthermore, there is a verse that would put an end to your view, but surely you know of what verse is that, but you choose to ignore and or avoid it, as most mainstreamers do.

You've also proven yourself to not only just be a Trinitarian, but perhaps adhere a bit of Islam for they do not agree that Jesus actually died, moreover, Jesus crucifixion. You also do not address and or speak of anything pertaining to prophecy, which means something - why devalue what the sacrifice means or the Resurrection? This is something you wouldn't even expect from the radical Trinitarian known as Jesus Defender, therefore, you are in sheer denial of what the Resurrection means and or what was foretold.

Also would like to see you speak of verses in the Bible that speaks of Jesus actually expiring from his ordeal via crucifixion.

NOTE: "He expired [took his last breathe]." Perhaps the exertion of uttering this great cry ruptured some organ of the body. We know from the effect of the piercing of his side that his sacred heart was previously broken; and thus he verily and really died.

For if Jesus was indeed somewhere immediately after his Death, surely it would have been mentioned by the writers, especially those who wrote the four Gospel Accounts, but in reality, they point to what Jesus himself had said, It has been finished and or accomplish, before he yielded up his spirit to God,

• John 19:29-30 - (29) A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. (30) When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

NOTE: Nicodemus played a big role in preparation of Jesus' body and Burial, all according to the customs of the Jews.

Plus the whole teaching of Immortal Soul and or Afterlife Doctrine defeats the very purpose of the Resurrection, let alone teaching that Judgement is immediate upon Death, these are clear heresies, for that conflicts with what Jesus was given (Matthew 28:18). It also sparks the teaching that God can claim and or take anyone he chooses, thus giving more fuel to enemies of God who sees him in a bad light, moreover, you have lunatics who commit acts of Christian Terrorism, with a hint of insanity to believe that killing a man, woman or child in cold blood immediately brings them to Heaven to be with God and Jesus, and any wicked man slain by their hand or even a repentant sinner is, by such ones, sent to burn for Eternity (The Hell Torment is also a false doctrine if you see how God feels, emotionally, in the Torah). Other than that, your own belief in the Immortal Soul Doctrine defeats you easily where you stand, Cos, the same can be said of a literal 3rd God being a being of his own, also a heresy, therefore, regarding Jesus, he didn't go anywhere upon death, only when he had risen, he spoke to the Spirits in Prison, did what he had to do with his followers, telling them to remain in Jerusalem, and eventually is send off by 2 angels and taken by a cloud, ascending into Heaven and from there we see what took place in Acts 2.

As for Christian Terrorism, I have seen such in the world, and it's aftermath even in person, and I can tell you, it is not something that makes people happy and or at peace, it is sheer radicalized based teaching that has nothing to do with the Church, makes one no different from that of radicalized Islam who thinks such action brings some sort of Salvation, the very sauce to ISIS' rice, if I may add.

17 hours ago, Cos said:

Now the excuse that the passages that prove the Holy Spirit a Person, that these are just personification fails on many levels, in fact there are so many problems with this ‘blanket” excuse which ignores the context and fails to exegete the passages.

And back to the Holy Spirit. You were not able to proof anywhere that the Holy Spirit is a person and you have purposely avoided a verse 3 of a specific passage you only address the first 2 verses of, for the 3rd clearly defeats your own view, and this 3rd verse I pointed out to correct you.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,"

Simon Peter, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, leaders of the early Christian Great Church.

I wouldn't call such as a fail, per-say, I see it as a Try-Hard attempt to paint something into the text that is not true, to which I have, as did others, corrected you on, and as we speak, even some of your own is correcting you elsewhere regarding the Death and Resurrection of Jesus, that in itself, is quite a shame. You could not even prove what you call God knows the great day of Judgement, even thought asked 3 times, you never addressed it, nor speak of any passage mentioned. You try to speak of several verses and taking them out of context when the answer has already been made,even re-posted you to read.

What is also evident you clearly do not like Acts chapters 1 and 2 for some odd reason, despite it being mention to you here and even months ago on several occasions, what is it of these chapters that alis you, Cos?

That being said, I agree with Stephen though, he, before his death, recognize the two individuals, God the Father, and his Son, Jesus Christ. For if the Holy Spirit was indeed a God, a 3rd would have been mention by him prior to Stephen's death, let alone when one knows of Stephen's history.

17 hours ago, Cos said:

Really, how do they know that these passages are personification?

Already addressed, but you repeat yourself, once again. Your responses, elsewhere,people are having a field day with them, thought that you would like to know this.

How many times you wish to be corrected and or given a re-post to said correction?

17 hours ago, Cos said:

Because they have already assumed the Holy Spirit is a power. This is called reasoning in a circle. They need to show that the Holy Spirit is a power before they can even begin talking about supposed personifications. But this is exactly what they cannot do! All they can do is read into certain passages that fake idea.

It is not a matter of they say or said by them, it is a matter of what the Early Church itself sees what the Holy Spirit truly is.

The Holy Spirit is Power, no matter how you try to knock it, look what it did to Samson, Mary, Zechariah, Paul, the list goes on. This is why I bring up Mary, by the Power of the Holy Spirit she was enabled to conceive a child, that child being Jesus, a person did not show up to cause her to become pregnant to conceive the child, mainly a Spirit Person, granted of how well we know that God is not something who condones Spirit Beings mating with daughters of men.

No one is trying to show the Holy Spirit is Power, for they need not because it is expressed in the Bible clearly, starting with Genesis 1 in the very beginning. Clearly I o not see how you missed that, then again, Trinitarians tend to brush over the Genesis Act of Creation.

When God speak's things into existence, what do you think happen? When God, who is our molder, as the Bible says, how do you suppose he molded man into his image and likeness? God the Father is great and for us as men for him and his Son to dwell in us, we must have the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

And just like Jesus we are filled with Holy Spirit that is poured on to us should we accept it and the Power by which God is with us and because of such, we have the ability to learn and seek truth and do all that is good, for some people, to adhere to the ministry which is is total consideration of the Great Commission itself, clearly we are able to do this physically on earth, hence preaching the gospel to all of mankind.

That being said, what do you expect to happen when someone, even you included, has the Holy Spirit within you? Surely it isn't standing besides you, mainly when such is outpoured to men.

I will mention this again because you are astray, blind and lost in this regard:

I will quote as well as link the re-post, yet again:

The Holy Spirit is indeed God's Power, I do not see why the denial, for there is only 2 camps on this matter.

• A: Holy Spirit (Breathe, Hand of God, Finger, Power, Nature) - Those who believe that one of God's nature is the Holy Spirit and that the Spirit is not a person, it is, as what the bible descibres the Spirit is to be and what it can do, example, causing Mary to become pregnant to even give birth to Jesus. Such ones believe that God can bestow the spirit on people, just as he did for Jesus and many others, and such one respects the Greek Lanugage pretaining to what the Holy Spirit is about.
•  B: Holy Spirit (As a Person) - Only those who believe in a Triune God, as in God in 3 persons. They believe The Father is God, so is Jesus and The Spirit. They believe that the bible speaks of the Spirit as a person, disregarding the Greek Language, example, Jay Smith, a Trinitarian Christain, believes the Holy Spirit is indeed a person, said person played a role in empowering people, Mary's preganacy, and a list of other things, clearly the so called personhood is incorrect when one realizes the Greek Language gender forms.

As seen here:

 

I sort of predict this would have to be re-post again, what a shame.

17 hours ago, Cos said:

Realistically there are many instances that cannot be explained away as a “personification”. For example, why is it that what we do supposedly generates a “personified” characteristic in a thing?

Perhaps because such things are not the Holy Spirit, that one Spirit of which originates from God himself...

Therefore, attempting to preach the doctrine of the Triune Being is not going to cut it for you. You could not even address the 3rd God in which you believe in knowing the day of Judegment, to make matters worse, you watered down what Jesus' death and ressrrrection entails and proven 100% true, according to others, Trinitarians want nothing to do with the expression (First Born out of the Dead)

I will address such for any guest who reads on the final response to your claims, perhaps mention a brief snippet of such vs. a 4 year study on the matter.

17 hours ago, Cos said:

“But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit.” (Isa. 63:10)

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God” (Eph. 4:30).

And who is grieving the Holy Spirit if I am ask? A Man who speaks of what the bible says an what the Early Church, of which our brothers and sisters were a part of in an Age that can be traced? Or a man who speaks of the Holy Spirit being another God, literal person, a separate person of which somehow was around when the Holy Spirit is given to the people only to see nowhere in the bible we see a man, being, person appear to such ones, let alone ignoring context, references and a specific verse of which was professed by such one?

Clearly everyone here knows who is in the right, even our guests.

The Early Church belief is simple. The Holy Spirit is of God, not actually and or literally a God, in addition, God cannot even be seen to begin with. The Holy Spirit is described as many things and was given a bodily form to represent purity and holiness, and such form being a Dove. Why? Because Doves were seen as something very special, as see and mentioned in the Hebrew Old Testament. The Holy Spirit enabled people to do things and help them, even enables people to speak by means and or through the Holy Spirit, hence it is what is being poured out to the people. We also know that Jesus himself blew his breathe to his followers, which gave them the Holy Spirit and later on, God the Father granted a great amount of people the Holy Spirit, which is the spoken Helper that would come to the people.

It is nothing far-fetched and or extra, simply Christian Primitivity regarding this belief.

Ephesians 4:30 is a direct cross-references to Isaiah 63:10. These verses also have other cross-references that gives us more context, such as Deuteronomy  9:7, 28:63, Acts 7:51 as well as Leviticus 26:14, 17 and Jeremiah 21:5, in addition, we have 1 Thessalonians 5:19 for quenching and or resisting the Holy Spirit alludes to what is being talked about.
Clearly no one is grieving the Holy Spirit here, only addressing the beliefs of those of the Apostolic Age regarding the Holy Spirit and nothing more and I do not see why is it an issue for one to apply what the first Church's view of the Holy Spirit vs. that of what originated in the 4th century, if anything, I agree with the Church Paul was very close with rather than such ones who do not. They never view something that is outpoured as a literal person and will never use the words of a man who affirmed the foremost command of recognizing and knowing who God is really, which throws the Holy Spirit being a separate God out of the window and seen as a heresy belief.

Now one can grieve the Holy Spirit unless they do not live by and or walk by the Spirit itself, and with all things taking place in the world, it is easy for a Christian to dwell and be led astray, as you are doing, thus not walking by means of the Spirit. Another factor is desires of the flesh (brazen conduct, immortality, etc) and other conduct that is not suppose to be among any of us, which enables the manifestation of ungodly-like traits, see Galatians 5:16, 25, 26. This also goes for swearing to and the Spirit, all actions, can lead to Unforgivable Sin, of which the bible does speak on this matter, this also goes for taking in a belief that is not true and professing it as truth, i.e. speaking of the Holy Spirit as a person, another God compared to the Father himself when clearly no one is above and or equal to God. However, one could need not worry if he or she strays and they can make change and not be fully condemning of God's Spirit, which will also result in commending God himself, who is the source of which the Holy Spirit came, which is something one needs to avoid. Therefore, verse 30, to be more precise, Ephesians 4:25-32, informs us how we should conduct ourselves in a positive light, and help us to avoid such grieving of the Spirit, in turn, help us avoid being astray from said Spirit and God.

17 hours ago, Cos said:

Why is it, because of what we do, that that generates a “personified” characteristic in a thing? <><?

What we should be doing is applying that of what the early Church practices, not what originated from man later on and eventually becoming something of which you can be shamed, persecuted and or killed for not accepting. What a day it was, very violent too all because they wanted to put on a pedestal a heresy that is forced to the people itself when originally, nothing of sort was taught prior.

You really need to open your eyes Cos, but you are keeping them shut, and sleeping on what is true will not reap good fruit for you. The Bible attempts to speak, give you context, you forcefully keep it closed with your cold sweaty hands.

Anyways, as promised for the guests and visitors as well as members here, since this topic was addressed elsewhere, and to my surprise, such ones do see what I say in a positive light I will state the following of which Trinitarians, even those who reveal themselves as adhering to practices of Apollinarism (New Agers)

Quote

Those who believe Jesus did not truly die avoid the term such as Firstborn from the Dead, when in the Bible we see this mention not once, but several times.

It is very explicit on this term in regards to Jesus,
 

• Revelations 1:5, 7 - (5) and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood (7) Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

Apostle Paul speaks of Jesus not only being the Firstborn out of the Dead, but Jesus being the the first of the Firstfruits.
 

• Colossians 1:18 - And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

 

• 1 Corinthians 15:23 - But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

And well over several verses point to such. The very reason as to why Jesus is even referred to as the Firstborn out of the Dead [of the Dead] is because he was the only one to have died, only to be resurrected and become not like us mortal men (anymore for he was a man, flesh, and died in the flesh only to be raised in the Spirit),

NOTE: The Bible (1 Peter 3:18, Acts 13:34, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 15:45, 2 Cor. 5:16) informs us that Lord Jesus was indeed put to death in the flesh (for he was a man, born as a man) but made alive (resurrected by God) in the spirit.

moreover, he, compared to us men, has been made incorruptible, being immortal. This puts him in a position of being the First of his brothers, the firstfruits, according to Paul. It is only afterwards those destined for Priesthood makeup those of the Firstfruits, as we can already see in Revelations, these men are the 144,000 chosen ones who are of the Spiritual House itself, those in the New Covenant who has such a role in contrast to those who remain on the earth and receive Eternal Life.
 

Jesus has indeed died, if one takes such things seriously and he has truly be resurrected, being made Lord and Christ, in addition to being alive forever and ever.

• Revelations 1:18 - and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

NOTE: Apostle Paul not only affirmed the a Law, which is a foremost command as Jesus have (Mark 12:28-34), who was a born Jew in the Law (Galatians 4:4), Paul also made it clear of who Jesus' Father is and how His Father played a role in the Resurrection, primarily seen in a simple sense in Acts 2:32 -  God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses. He was not shy of letting the early Church, our brothers and sisters of that Church, know who God is and who Jesus is either (Galatians 1:1, 1 Thess. 1:1, Romans 10:9-13, etc+ an that is only a few out of a dozen)

Any man who makes the claim that Jesus somehow appeared in some afterlife, is kidding themselves, for it defeats the purpose of what the Resurrection and or what Prophecy has said of the Christ/Messiah. Such persons fail to take in fully as to what the Bible says and clearly ignoring of what Jesus is called and or part of entails.

• Hebrews 5:7 - In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence.

One cannot deny any of what the Spiritual House means and or points to, fact and true.
 

NOTE: The expression Firstfruits, which is used both figurative and symbolic, was also used figuratively of Christ and his followers, his Disciples, chosen for Priesthood in the Messnaic Kingdom, for instance, this includes people like Thomas, Matthias, etc, granted such ones were present in the city when the reward from the Father was given. These men are of the remnant of which Paul himself had spoken about, the faithful remnant of Jews who became the first Christian brothers to be among the Firstfruits,

• Romans 11:16 - If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

The information on this is vast and very in-depth, but this is just a brief cookie out of the whole jar, perhaps a thread soon on what this all points to.

At this rate, I do not know what you try to prove with expressing your own opinion of a heresy, let alone making the claim that Jesus never really died, thus ignoring what the Resurrection entails, the New Covenant and a list of others things, that is something very rare to see a mainstream speak of, therefore, it puts you on the light of New Age practices.Clearly you do not like to be wrong, but, you are just another tragic soul who adheres to false teachings.

At this point I do not know if you are afraid of Jehovah's Witnesses or Muslims who read the Bible and understands it or someone who is educated with high discipline in Biblical Studies, the study of Religion, History and Christology, etc. who is correcting you, be lucky it isn't a man of Islam who is well educated in the Bible and it's history, such persons proved James White wrong on a number of occasions - not refuted, but brutally confuted on several points.

A response will always be expected. Lastly, I recall you made the attempt to use John 8:44 only for it to backfire on you in public. Slowly you are making that jump for there are literal biblical verses, in context,I have yet to address that pretty much shatter several points made now and before, perhaps onward in the future as well - very evident.

Best to save thyself and learn from error rather than break thyself in error.

[sami]

@Cos 

On 7/28/2018 at 11:30 PM, Cos said:

No bible version translates the Greek word παρατίθημι as “yielded up” no matter how some try to twist translations; they just like to build an argument around what is not there. But of course those that read their ideas into Scripture will continue to do so regardless. The meaning of the word παρατίθημι is, “the keeping of”.

 

 

 

 

 

Now the excuse that the passages that prove the Holy Spirit a Person, that these are just personification fails on many levels, in fact there are so many problems with this ‘blanket” excuse which ignores the context and fails to exegete the passages.

 

 

 

 

 

Really, how do they know that these passages are personification?

 

 

 

 

 

Because they have already assumed the Holy Spirit is a power. This is called reasoning in a circle. They need to show that the Holy Spirit is a power before they can even begin talking about supposed personifications. But this is exactly what they cannot do! All they can do is read into certain passages that fake idea.

 

 

 

 

 

Realistically there are many instances that cannot be explained away as a “personification”. For example, why is it that what we do supposedly generates a “personified” characteristic in a thing?

 

 

 

 

 

“But they were the ones who rebelled, and they grieved his Holy Spirit.” (Isa. 63:10)

 

 

 

 

 

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God” (Eph. 4:30).

 

 

 

 

 

Why is it, because of what we do, that that generates a “personified” characteristic in a thing? <><

 

 

 

On 7/25/2018 at 7:50 PM, Cos said:

Why would Jesus “yield up”, what was about to cease existing, into the hands of His father (Luke 23:46)? What is more revealing is the fact that the Greek word παρατίθημι is never translated “yield up” or “yielded up” nor does the word mean such a thing the word means “the keeping of”.

 

 

 

 

 

Here once again is blatant reading into the Scriptures what is not there to try to make something say what it doesn’t. The sheer nonsense can be seen by asking why would Jesus παρατίθημι, what was to cease existing, into the hands of His Father.

 

 

 

 

 

Steven PRAYED “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”. But according to some Jesus was asked to “receive” what ceased existing!

 

 

 

 

 

This type of irrational nonsense is typical of those that constantly read into Scripture their false view such as when they read into Zechariah 4:6, Micah 3:8 2, Tim. 1:7, Luke 4:14, Acts 1:8, Acts 10:38 and think that these say that the Holy Spirit is not a Person.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Cos  Why would Jesus “yield up”, what was about to cease existing, into the hands of His father (Luke 23:46)? What is more revealing is the fact that the Greek word παρατίθημι is never translated “yield up” or “yielded up” nor does the word mean such a thing the word means “the keeping of”.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sami said: I'm afraid your mistaken - according to Perseus & Tufts ...Liddell Lexicon the meaning is...

2. to deposit what belongs to one in another's hands, give in charge, commit, Hdt., Xen.; τι εἴς τινα or τινά τινι NTest.

[Evacuated]

On 7/26/2018 at 1:50 AM, Cos said:

Why would Jesus “yield up”, what was about to cease existing, into the hands of His father (Luke 23:46)?

Although likely unintended by the poster, this question exposes the fudamental gap in understanding that characterises the poster's opininion throughout.

Answer this question correctly, and you are well on the way to becoming " thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge, that YOU may be filled with all the fullness that God gives." Eph.3:18-19.

[sami]

On 7/25/2018 at 8:03 PM, Cos said:

Our friend sami, whose other comments were shown to be, well, wrong, goes into a long winded accusation to try to maintain the false idea. Once again sami quotes passages where the idea that the Holy Spirit is a power must be read into them,

 

 

 

 

 

What is more disturbing is the quoting out of context of some works, here is an example, the quote from the New Catholic Encyclopedia;

 

 

 

 

 

“The OT [Old Testament] clearly does not envisage God’s spirit as a person .   .   .   God’s spirit is simply God’s power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly . . . The majority of NT [New Testament] texts reveal God’s spirit as some thing , not some one ; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God”

 

 

 

 

 

Below is what the Encyclopedia actually says and more importantly, what was left out;

 

 

 

 

 

“…’Holy Spirit,’ therefore, means ‘Divine Spirit’. This article treats the spirit of God as it is presented in the OT and Judaism, and in the NT. Consideration is given in each of these sections to the spirit of God as a power and as a Person...

 

 

God's Spirit Not Presented as a Person. The OT clearly does not envisage God's spirit as a person, neither in the strictly philosophical sense, nor in the Semitic sense. God's spirit is simply God's power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly (Is 48.16; 63.11; 32.15). Very rarely do the OT writers attribute to God's spirit emotions or intellectual activity (Is 63.10; Wis 1.3-7). ... As a result of the teaching of Christ, the definite personality of the Third Person of the Trinity is clear. However, in most cases, the phrase "spirit of God" reflects the OT notion of "the power of God." ...

 

 

The Spirit of God as a Person. Although the NT concepts of the spirit of God are largely a continuation of those of the OT, in the NT there is a gradual revelation that the Spirit of God's a Person…

 

 

In the Synoptic Gospels…The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God… The only passage in the Synoptic Gospels that clearly speaks of the person of the Holy Spirit is the Trinitarian formula in Mt 28.19. ... The statement in Acts 15.28, "the Holy Spirit and we have decided," alone seems to imply full personality. ... However, the Trinitarian formulas employed by St. Paul (e.g., 2 Cor 13.13), indicate a real personality. ... So clearly does St. John see in the Spirit a person who takes Christ's place in the Church, that he uses a masculine pronoun (Greek) in reference to the Spirit even though [spirit] is neuter in gender ( 16.8, 13-16). Consequently, it is evident that St. John thought of the Holy Spirit as a Person, who is distinct from the Father and the Son, and who, with the glorified Son and the Father, is present and active in the faithful (14.16; 15.26; 16.7).” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1965, Spirit of God, Vol 13, p574-576)

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, the (copy and paste) quote by sami deliberately and deceptively is selective on what the Catholic encyclopedia says, and ignores the fact that it clearly does states that the Bible outright teaches the personality of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament.

 

 

 

 

 

So when the whole article is read in context, yes the Holy Spirit is associated with God's power, but is often attributed clear personality.

 

 

 

 

 

In another post our friend focuses on many quotes from a wide variety of sources. But before I address these our friend’s gives a brief short history in the introduction prior to all the quotes which is false. As can be shown, the early Christians before the fourth century referred to Jesus as God, here are a few of the many examples.

 

 

 

 

 

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50–117): “Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life.” (Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, 19.3)

 

 

 

 

 

Justin Martyr (100–165): And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power as Man, and Angel, and in the glory of fire as at the bush, so also was manifested at the judgment executed on Sodom, has been demonstrated fully by what has been said. (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 128)

 

 

 

 

 

Tertullian (155-220) "Thus the connection of the Father in the Son, and of the Son in the Paraclete, produces three coherent Persons, who are yet distinct One from Another. These Three are, ONE essence, not one Person” (Against Praxeas, chapter 25).

 

 

 

 

 

None of the above Christians were expelled from the Christian Church like Noetus who taught heresy. And even if you don’t fully agree with what these Christians taught it would be nonsense to claim that the Deity of Christ was not taught until the fourth century.

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, to keep this brief, which some don’t do, let me say that the majority of quotes which sami provides are taken out of context and chopped up to portray a false idea just like the above from the  Catholic encyclopedia.

 

 

 

 

 

The others fall into the category of self-quotes, that is, quoting from those who are Arian/Unitarian in the first place. <><

 

 

 

Trinity

Addressing your ire and contempt of my usage of Catholic encyclopedias and other reference materials to prove my point. There is a question which arises.... when were the principles and ideology of  Bible doctrine set as the system by which all claimants of Christianity abide and adhere?

 

The Hebrew and Greek Scriptures are not now nor have they ever been antithetical. The TRUTH be told, the two are singular and unwavering in ideology and teaching as to the nature of Yehwah/Jehovah. The singularity of Jehovah is seen in the prayer of the Psalmist at Ps.90:2 "Before the mountains were born Or you brought forth the earth and the productive land, From eternity to eternity, you are God."

Yes, an existence, a life force  that has always been.

And Psalm 93:  2 "Your throne was firmly established long ago; From eternity you have existed."

1 Timothy 1:17 "Now to the King of eternity, incorruptible, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen".

(From perpetuity to perpetuity)

 

Jehovah God is “from time indefinite to time indefinite.” He is and always has been immortal. The first person to whom Jehovah granted the gift of immortality was Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul explains: “Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” Romans 6:9      Indeed, contrasting the resurrected Jesus with earthly rulers, Paul describes him as the only one among them having immortality. Jesus will now remain “alive forever.” His life is “indestructible.”    Hebrews 7:15-17, 23-25; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16.

 

For the fact that Jesus could die indicates he is not a co-equal part of Jehovah. It also indicates that he also had a beginning.  Colosians 1:15 bears this out ".... He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;...."

Revelation 3:14 "......These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God."

 

Proverbs 8:22 "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago."

 

My usage of The Catholic encyclopedia was for the clarity seen in the preface of their staunch statement in support of monotheism. What follows in the latter portion is speculation i.e. "NTseems to support" and other such terms of ambiguity.

 

Doctrine was set when the very first person put stylus to hide or chissel to stone. When Jehovah inspired the first writer to pen the very first historical record, all succeeding penman wrote as they were born along by the power and leadings of the spirit. Jehovah's means of salvation was the sacrificial blood of his very own Son. (Genesis 3:15)  

 

The prophetic record follows this theme the who, what, where, when, why and how. The transmittal of God (Jehovah's) purpose to the human race was through a handpicked people - the Hebrews. Every Bible book penned is through a Jew, every experience memorialized is by and of Jews. The Bible record is of Jews.

 

What did the Jews believe? The Jews believed in monotheism "Yehwahʹ ʼElo·hehʹnu Yehwahʹ ʼe·chadhʹ " The shema was recited every Shabbat.  The apostle John (a Jew) pointed out that "SALVATION BEGINS WITH THE JEWS" John 4:22

 

Salvation begins with the Jews - Or “salvation originates with the Jews, how?” Jesus’ statement implies that the Jewish people had been entrusted with God’s Word, pure worship, and the truth that could lead to salvation. Romans 3:1, 2 They were also chosen as the people from whom the Messiah would come, fulfilling God’s promise regarding the “offspring” of Abraham. Genesis 22:18; Galatians 3:16 When Jesus spoke to the Samaritan woman, it was only through the Jews that a person could learn the truth about God and what he required as well as details about the Messiah. Israel was still God’s channel, and any who wished to serve Jehovah had to do so in association with his chosen nation.

 

Jesus was a Jew, his apostles were Jews, his followers were Jews. And what was Jewish doctrine? "Yehwah Elohehnu Yehwah echadh V'ahavta" The Shema which was given by Jehovah and memorialized by Jews (in the Hebrew scriptures). Jesus Christ repeated instructions from Shema at Mark 12:29,30 "Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.

 

Do you see the continuity of doctrine from the Hebrew Scriptures through the Greek Scriptures? Nothing had changed from the Hebrew Scriptures, which bound the nation together, as Christ clearly stated in the Hebrew prayer, (SHEMA) which had been recited by generations of Jews before and after Christ. It is the bedrock of doctrine and it is unchangeable. "Jehovah our God is one Jehovah"

[Space Merchant]

@sami 

Trying to remove falsehood from a Trinitarian who dwells in apollinarianism is like trying to cure cancer from a patient. Some would accept what is true, but not all of them, for it is not always at times a success, but in this sense, the ignorance is truly there. The very reason why the Trinity itself is the sole purpose of why the Christian faith has declined so strongly, and the attacks done by Trinitarians to Christian minorities.

 

It is.... very pathetic and they know it too.

[Cos]

I have said from the start that the meaning of the Greek word παρατίθημι is “the keeping of”, @sami brief quote from Liddell-Scott-Jones Lexicon confirms this although I’m accused of being mistaken (?). The issue is, some claimed that the use of the word παρατίθημι in Luke 23:46 means “yielded up” in the sense of to cease existing.

 

Now, to quote things out of context in order to portray a false idea by the chopped up quotes and then claim,  “My usage of The Catholic encyclopedia was for the clarity seen in the preface of their staunch statement in support of monotheism”, clearly shows an ignorance to what was intentionally left out in order to convey that false idea, and also dismisses the alleged reason for doing so. <><

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, Cos said:

yielded up

Jesus expression at Luke 23:46 seems to have more reference to "commiting" or "entrusting" his future life prospects to God as opposed to describing the death state which, whilst a relevant concept in view of the nature of Jesus mission to earth, is not the focus of attention here.

The psalmist has it well described at Psalm 31:5 "Into your hand I commit (shall place) my spirit;" ESV. This is in harmony with Jesus earlier words: "let, not my will, but yours take place". Luke 22:42.

[sami]

5 hours ago, Cos said:

I have said from the start that the meaning of the Greek word παρατίθημι is “the keeping of”, @sami brief quote from Liddell-Scott-Jones Lexicon confirms this although I’m accused of being mistaken (?). The issue is, some claimed that the use of the word παρατίθημι in Luke 23:46 means “yielded up” in the sense of to cease existing.

 

 

Now, to quote things out of context in order to portray a false idea by the chopped up quotes and then claim,  “My usage of The Catholic encyclopedia was for the clarity seen in the preface of their staunch statement in support of monotheism”, clearly shows an ignorance to what was intentionally left out in order to convey that false idea, and also dismisses the alleged reason for doing so. <><

 

 

THAYER
2. the spirit, i. e. the vital principle by which the body is animated ((Aristotle, Polybius, Plutarch, others; see below)): Luke 8:55; Luke 23:46; John 19:30; Acts 7:59; Revelation 13:15 (here R. V. breath); ἀφιέναι τό πνεῦμα, to breathe out the spirit, to expire, Matthew 27:50

 

Dictionary:
παρατίθημι
Greek transliteration: paratithēmi
Simplified transliteration: paratithemi
Principal Parts: παραθήσω, παρέθηκα, -, -, παρετέθην
Strong's number: 3908
GK Number: 4192

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 19
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: cv-6a
Gloss: (act.) to set before; (mid.) to entrust, commit

Definition:
to place by the side of, or near; to set before, Mk. 6:41; 8:6, 7; Lk. 9:16; met. to set or lay before, propound, Mt. 13:24, 31; to inculcate, Acts 17:3; to deposit, commit to the charge of, entrust, Lk. 12:48; 23:46; to commend, Acts 14:23
----------------------------------

Genesis 2:7 "Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person."
Adam was not - nor had he ever been a spirit creature, he was sculpted from earthly things (soil/clay). Human and animal creatures contain the same substances(minerals) as the earth. What made the creation of man different than the work of Michelangelo is the Breath of Life blown into Adam by his sculptor, Jehovah God. Then, as Genesis 2:7 apprises us, man became animate, a living breathing creature.

 

Man was not the only living creature to have been gifted with Jehovah's breath as we are made aware and informed by Scripture. Genesis 7:22 " Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died.

AND

Genesis 7:15 "They kept going to Noah inside the ark, two by two, of every sort of flesh that has the breath of life."

 

Ecclesiastes 3:19 "for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit.(OR the same source of life/breath) So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile."

 

Isaiah 42:5 "This is what the true God, Jehovah, says, The Creator of the heavens and the Grand One who stretched them out, The One who spread out the earth and its produce, The One who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk on it:"

 

That breath was given once and that was at the creation in Eden. From then on the animation of humans and animals is by the first gasp of oxygen taken in at birth. If that creature does not respond by the inhalation of oxygen it is never animated, it is not living.

 

What is the spirit mentioned in Isaiah 42:5? It is the LIFE OF THE PERSON........ ruwach; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. A sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life ..........

 

That which is exhaled at the end of life represents who and what you are. You are either remembered for a future life (a recreation) on a paradise earth or you are not. Just as stated at John 5: 28, 29 "Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs (3419 mnēmeíon (a neuter noun derived from 3451 /mousikós, "to remember, keep in memory")   will hear his voice  and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

 

That final breath is a remembrance of the person you are (the good, the bad and the ugly) whatever name you have made for yourself, that is what Jehovah remembers.

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

@sami Tragically, @Cos is not a fan of and or very weak regarding biblical Strong's (be it Hebrew or Greek), for he takes issue with even 4352 in order to make claim to a belief that is unsure, yet sparks both the audacity and hypocrisy to make accusations that defeat his own attempt every step of the way.

At times it isn't easy for a blind and lost one, such as him, to find out what is really true, for sooner or later, he will learn the hard way.

[sami]

Our purpose is to present the truth. Whether they believe or accept is their responsibility, that is according to the disposition of their heart/lev.

[Cos]

The contradictions run thick and fast.

 

We had the claim that the passage in Luke 23:46 means that Jesus ceased to exist, but now we have this by @Gone Away that Luke 23:46 is Jesus’ “future life prospects to God as opposed to describing the death state”, Now the person who proposed Luke 23:46 as meaning Jesus ceased to exist, liked this (up voted), even though this proposal by Mr. Joyce’s, contradicts that persons earlier claim!

 

Then @sami who also "up voted" Mr. Joyce’s above comments but then does an about face by going back to the ceased existing nonsense.

 

Scripture shows that when a person dies their spirit does not cease to exist but leaves the body (Psalm 146:4).

 

In Luke 8:55 we read that the spirit of Jairus’ daughter returned to her body and she rose up immediately. <><

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, Cos said:

when a person dies their spirit does not cease to exist but leaves the body (Ps

No more than a fire or flame change location when doing the same surely