What does not passing the collection plate really mean anyway?

[Witness]

51 minutes ago, Anna said:

Now you’re being ridiculous. As if the WT ever had, or has, or will have, the kind of riches, and power and prominence Jesus was offered. Not even close. I really don't think you've thought that one through considering Christendom's churches, such as the Catholic Church etc.

There are plenty of riches within the Watchtower to question just what they do with it.  Notice how the GB is dressed?  Have you noticed the video of the family in Ghana (I believe) and the table the father sat at outside?  What about the opulence of Warwick in contrast to the families surroundings -  the radiant look on Sanderson's face as he describes the beautiful setting for Warwick.  Tell me just where he has set his "treasure".   Matt 6:19-21  

Why are you comparing the Watchtower's riches to "Christendom" at all?  If we see our brother in need we help them.  The GB is apparently immune to this command of Christ. Luke 12:33; 1 John 3:17  

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I see by that comment that billions of dollars in contributed money to the Society, with ABSOLUTELY NO ACCOUNTING WHATSOEVER to the contributors is agreeable to you.

The "accounting" is the Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls sprouting up like mushrooms in areas that can ill-afford them.

The "accounting" is the disaster relief that gets the job done while many outsiders are bumping into one another like Keystone Cops.

The "accounting" is the annual convention held some 200 times around the globe, supplemented by every means of video technology, and other televised venues.

The "accounting" is the Bible translation and distribution so that the poor family head in the Congo can have a Bible even for free, rather than be stuck with a 200 year old turkey of a translation that he cannot afford because nobody of the religious world dreams it possible to circumvent the commercial world's distribution system.

The "accounting" is the lovable childlike cartoon characters Caleb and Sophia who nonetheless come off as more mature than you.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I scare a lot of people, TTH ... but YOU are one REALLY scary Dude.

That even scares ME ... that someone can even THINK like that.

What scares me is that you can see all this and still scream that someone is picking your pocket.

[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, Witness said:

The “good news” will not reach all of “Israel” before the son of Man comes; I believe he will see that it is taken care of without the need of a showy display.   Matt 10:23;28:20; Rom 9:6; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Isa 10:17-23; Matt 24:30,31; Rev 7:4

 

32 minutes ago, Witness said:

When you read the scriptures, let me know.

I'm sorry, @Witness, I just can't do it. Count it as my weakness if you must. I just can't suffer you clobbering me with scriptures that do nothing but continue your harangues. The Governing Body can hardly be accused of subtlety, but even they do not punctuate every sentence with myriad scriptures. They instead recommend daily Bible reading, then they assume the familiarity that comes therefrom and do not have to quote a Bible verse every time they tie their shoe.

We have a verse heading your list that we won't get done before the end comes, which you appear to take to mean we should therefore do nothing. Then there are some verses to advance your constant complaint that the bad annointed ones have wrestled the teaching spotlight away from you and the other good annointed ones. I just can't suffer through it. Sorry.

[Shiwiii]

22 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

So what? Money was asked for by Moses, David, Paul, Jesus had money given in support of his work. It was always genorosity in imitation of Jehovah that was emphasised as now. No need  to "beg or petition" is the phrase actually used. We don't have bingo, lotteries, Punch and Judy shows, book sales etc. nor accept money to atone for sins.

By the way, There ain't no DOs no mo'

What do you call a "recommended amount the average publisher needs to contribute" if not a beg and petition?  Oh wait, I think I get it now. It is not a beg or petition, but rather a demand and requirement, an additional law given to the people.

[Evacuated]

5 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

What do you call a "recommended amount the average publisher needs to contribute" if not a beg and petition?  Oh wait, I think I get it now. It is not a beg or petition, but rather a demand and requirement, an additional law given to the people.

Don't think the publishers were actually given an amount as a requirement were they? Nope....Oh!Oh! argument fails.

Actually,  an amount is specified so that the brothers don't give too much. After all, when funds are needed for anything in Jehovah's work, the floodgates just open up until we say "no more want". That is what the Scriptures indicate would happen in the true religion ...isn't it? Say you need something in Jehovah's organisation and it all comes pouring in!  I know the "others" are all very jealous of this, in fact it is actually one of the end triggers I believe:

Ez. 38:10-12.

“This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11 You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.” 12 It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth.
(Jaws theme playing in the background)

[Shiwiii]

20 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Don't think the publishers were actually given an amount as a requirement were they? Nope....Oh!Oh! argument fails.

Did you not read the letter? There IS a requirement per publishers. 

21 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Actually,  an amount is specified so that the brothers don't give too much.

LOL, you really think that? my goodness.

22 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

Say you need something in Jehovah's organisation and it all comes pouring in!

like what? food, clothing? humanitarian aid? Never seen it come from the organization, individuals...yes, but not the org. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

“This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11 You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.” 12 It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth.

I've never thought of the verse that way. I like that take.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

Your reading comprehension skills are at their usual nonexistent level, TTH. clouded by a fantasy agenda.

The Kingdom Hall I grew up in had Brothers that stole from the contribution box ( they said they were going to pay it back ...) and had two Elders who later ... much later ... were found out after they faded out to be screaming homosexuals.  One was seen in a "Gay Pride" parade by my sister, and the other contacted me when I mentioned him by name in an internet posting, and he contacted me, wanting to know where the first ex-elder was these days. 

And if you know JW History, you know that there were two members of the Governing Body that were removed for homosexuality, and even today, the upper echelons of the Organization is riddled with spies, covert apostates and "hangers on", which leak every manner of confidential document to the Internet.

Often INFO is available globally faster to ANYBODY on the Internet, than Elders can get copies in the mail.

(By the way, in my opinion, this leakage is a GOOD thing ... as Organizational change is ONLY done by outside forces MAKING the changes happen ... the crime is that in the Truth, there is NO SUCH THING as fiscal or spiritual transparency).

We should not have to "steal" information that common decency and a clean conscience, and  basic fiduciary responsibility says we are ENTITLED to have, out of respect, and common sense. 

It stuns me but not surprises me that you are comfortable with anonymous men in the upper echelons, handling perhaps 60 million dollars a month, and having total faith that NOBODY is skimming.  

All it takes is the checkers to be in cahoots with the counters, and MILLIONS of dollars a month could be skimmed off ... and nobody but NOBODY would be the wiser, BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS A SECRET....  to those lower on the totem pole.

The "higher ups" have to believe what their minions tell them, and those lower on the chain of command have no access to the information, and are NOT told.

Secrecy breeds tyranny and corruption in ALL religious organizations.

This has ALWAYS been the case.

Oh, and TTH .....

GROW UP!

.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The REAL reason the WTB&TS confiscated all Kingdom Halls in the world is that they are NOW ... each and every one of them... PROFIT CENTERS.

With the MASSIVE hurricane and Earthquake damage in the last several weeks, in about a year ... we will ALL KNOW.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It stuns me but not surprises me that you are comfortable with anonymous men in the upper echelons, handling perhaps 60 million dollars a month, and having total faith that NOBODY is skimming.  

FACTS!! EVIDENCE! THAT’S WHAT I WANT TO SEE!!

FACTS! DOES ANYBODY IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD KNOW WHAT FACTS ARE EXCEPT ME?

(WHERE HAVE I HEARD THIS RANT BEFORE?)

EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING – THAT’S WHAT I NEED TO SEE!!!

WHEN ANTHONY MORRIS UPGRADES TO A BIGGER DORM ROOM, THEN I WILL KNOW THE LIARS ARE ASCONDING WITH THE DOUGH!!!

Okay, that was tongue in cheek. The following is not. Not only is your demand brilliant and justified beyond belief – if the 12 dopes had followed it back in the day all history would be different and we’d be in paradise now!

Judas was stealing from the box. Why didn’t Jesus demand an account? The twelve were taking in the funds of the lowly and there was never an account!!!

 

...NOT ONCE

 

…EVER!

YOU HEARD ME – EVER!!!!

IT’S OUTRAGEOUS!!!

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Oh, and TTH .....

GROW UP

You're joking!!

if anyone but you said this to me, I would take it to heart. I might not do it, but I would take it to heart.

But YOU telling someone to grow up???

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Better lighten up, TTH, or you will give yourself a stroke and a nurse will have to lift you up when your are slumped over in a wheelchair,  so you can valve out excess abdominal gasses.

( I for a very long time have  thought it was amazing that the human body is a bag of water, with a valve AT THE BOTTOM, to release gas pressure ...)

I noticed that once again, AS ALWAYS ... you refused to address any actual issue I brought up, this time by devolving into an absurd extrapolation about the "12 dopes".

Your replies are in effect ..

" oh yeah?

 Oh Yeah?

 OH YEAH?

 OH YEAH?

 OH YEAH?

 OH YEAH? "

... and the scintillating final conclusion ..

Yo Momma!