JWs and Child Molestation

[Srecko Sostar]

*the starting picture of the video - causes transmitted meaning, allegory

Some day in the future Judicial Committees in JW congregations will be consist of male and female members. Sisters role for "peace and security aka safety"  for the children that have been molested, from JW members inside families or congregation or anyone else, will be of crucial, important meaning. Children, female children particularly, perhaps would found to feel more comfortable to answer on intimate questions in front of compassionate woman then before man. Not ask me why? You can imagine why? (JC elders asking very inappropriate questions, interrogation to children (and adults too) about sexual experience and what and how all that have happened) causing more trauma because elders have  not proper education (in every way) to deal with such sensitive issue.

quote under the picture of Dragan Covic: "We appreciate the decisive role of women in all process (of investigation and judging)

message from UN poster: "Together for Peace. Respect, Safety@Dignity For All (victims of injustice that was caused by man) 

[Anna]

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

(JC elders asking very inappropriate questions, interrogation to children (and adults too) about sexual experience and what and how all that have happened) causing more trauma because elders have  not proper education (in every way) to deal with such sensitive issue

Although completely off topic on this thread I just thought I would mention this: This has already changed. Victims are no longer  required to “testify” in front of JC elders, and sisters may be able to assist the elders in establishing facts etc. (however sisters will never be able to take part in a JC committee because of its “official” nature).

View the 2017 Child Safeguarding policy HERE

This particular one is for the UK and Ireland, it will be the same all over the world.

[Srecko Sostar]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

...off topic...

Hi Anna. If i may be let to say, again, video picture made that first impression on my mind, so that was the reason  for put such comment in post. Apologize for made people upset :). 

If things about elders and victims are in progress of change, ok. If that change is for better, very good. If this will be really for victims benefit, excellent.  

But i would like to say this too. It is very shameful that progress in this, child molestation issue, was began to happen because "Worldly Court" initiative, investigations, judging. Those people who was involved in whole process of ARC or somewhere else, are people of this "satan" world (atheist or belonging to false religion, or to some other philosophy that not take JHVH in consideration when speaking about life), so it is very devastating that "only true religion" with its leaders aka GB or FDS are not been taught and guided by Holy Spirit, JHVH or Jesus in this very important thing. Are GB do not received proper food in proper time from Master???

Or They,  GB, Disobeyed their Leader Jesus instructions??? and He put WTJWorg in hands of "Egypt, Babylon and Medo Persia"  to give them a lesson?? Just my imagination and interpretation. But hey, history gave examples that support my idea :))).

16 hours ago, Anna said:

(however sisters will never be able to take part in a JC committee because of its “official” nature).

I do not know your reason why you to put word "official" in apostrophe. Does that mean for you how sister's role are nature inside JWorg, or you wish change and think that such "Official nature" is not nature in fact??

Let me give one biblical example on Women's "role and nature" in time of Judges. Debora was Judge for all sons of Israel. And her words have to been obeyed. And no one characters, like G. Jackson, or A. Morris or any other GB member or "Helper" or elder  have no right to tell opposite and put woman on lower level. Yes, women are made on god's image and have all qualifications to participate in all life matters. Not only investigations but judging also!!!

If somebody thing different, he/she have that right to think and act according to his perception. But for me NO! Woman and man are equal besides their differences.   

[Srecko Sostar]

17 hours ago, Anna said:

View the 2017 Child Safeguarding policy

Sorry, but must reacted to first nonsense i saw on page 2.

They wrote: "This Policy is in harmony with the long- standing and widely published religious principles of JW, ...

What "long standing and widely published religious principles"???If those NEW policy are long standing???? why change old Policy??? to New one that is long standing and widely known???

What "Widely published"?? Policy and Elders book are not widely published for JW members and non JW public. So, it is known only to elders and to few one if some informations was leaked to outside.  

sorry Anna but i am upset with first few sentences of Policy, what expect me if i continue to read all 73 pages :)))))))

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But i would like to say this too. It is very shameful that progress in this, child molestation issue, was began to happen because "Worldly Court" initiative, investigations, judging.

This is a classic example of getting slammed for doing the right thing and should not be spun any other way.

The way you (as a faith) avoid such problems is to take no interest in the conduct of your members. Preach to them on Sunday  and let that be the end of it. If they apply it, they apply it. If they don't, they don't. It's no concern of yours as the pastor. That way, should any turn out to be molesters, you can never be made to look bad for investigating it because you never even learn of it.

God gets shortchanged that way because he expects a clean people, but who cares? He's God. Tell him to suck it up.

Witnesses alone investigate wrong conduct so as to keep the congregation clean, which God expects them to do. In the case of pedophiles, they investigate also to make sure one does not simply slip out of one congregation and into another. That is the sole purpose of any records kept.

If they have ever erred in any investigations, this should not be spun as a negative, for no one else even attempts it, though they all should.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

44 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

...slammed for doing the right thing...

No, they (WT)  been disciplined from Court because they done/doing wrong and even bad things to own members.

47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It's no concern of yours as the pastor.

Sorry, but this is error constantation. We all know very well what is expected of single member and what is prime obligation for every single elders in cong.

For members is to report every bad conduct they witnessed (life experience are various and some members are stick to that (bible) rule with more or less enthusiasm and with some personal perception on procedure, steps how to do that, when to obey all rules or choose to pick some of them in practical situation. So, officially, it is of concern for every JW member.    

For elders it is required to "shepherd" aka protect, discipline, counsel or disfellowship everyone who are not inside rules.

About records and informations about paedophile inside elders bodies and various congregations. That is problematic field (for organization) because their handling on issue have too much "holes", failures, purposely hiding informations. Have in mind that in fact all instructions was orchestrated from Legal Department and  Official Desk (Service Committee) in Bethel. By that in some situations elders are "puppet on the stream", but that is their choice and i not need to have "niceness" for their errors, wrong decisions and sometimes stupidity when they "obey" unrighteous and wrong instructions from GB.    

In several Courts subjects, WT are disobeyed Court decision to give, produce documents for case. Is that what honest and truthful and righteous elders would do?? From top elders of GB to lower elders in congregations??  In my world there is no Fear Obligation Guilt to openly say about things how they really are in the WT that was part of own or other people experience and insight.

[Noble Berean]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Witnesses alone investigate wrong conduct so as to keep the congregation clean, which God expects them to do. In the case of pedophiles, they investigate also to make sure one does not simply slip out of one congregation and into another. That is the sole purpose of any records kept.

If they have ever erred in any investigations, this should not be spun as a negative, for no one else even attempts it, though they all should.

 

They're not being punished for doing the right thing. If the organization's policies were effective, would we be seeing repeated sexual abuse in congregations? It became a big enough issue that child welfare organizations got involved, and the org has faced multiple cases against them. How bad does this issue need to be before it's acknowledged that the policies of the organization have failed in this regard? Sometimes it's best to just to be humble and not let ego get in the way of necessary changes.

The WT organization chooses to be heavily involved in people's lives, so its bears partial responsibility for the continued presence of sexual abuse in the congregation. The organization shouldn't get brownie points for enforcing congregational purity unlike other denominations. That's a give-in if we are to believe this organization is being directed by God. And it's also a misdirection from the fact that this protective system has failed to protect many young JWs.

I think we can both agree that it's the atmosphere of this organization that has led to these legal problems. JWs are taught to rely on the organization to handle issues--the elders and overseers. So, it's no surprise that many JWs come to elders looking for direction on matters of sexual abuse before turning to anyone else. I think elders should always report abuse to police, because that's their moral duty. The hundreds of unreported claims of sexual abuse have left a stain on our organization and God's holy name.

[TrueTomHarley]

4 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

If the organization's policies were effective, would we be seeing repeated sexual abuse in congregations?

You are asking the wrong question. Would you agree that it is a very common news event for molesters to be caught by authorities these days?

How often is the religious affiliation of the person reported?

Why? Or why not?

[JW Insider]

47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How often is the religious affiliation of the person reported?

Probably more than half the time, I'm guessing. That's because if it happens within a religious institution like the Roman Catholic Church or a Jewish Temple, the religious institution is part of the story. Just as if it were a football coach or a gymnastics coach it can reflect on the college, university or sports organization that hired the abuser.

[TrueTomHarley]

1 minute ago, JW Insider said:

Probably more than half the time, I'm guessing.

Please supply a few examples of church members, not clergy, who have been so identified.

Then do a search for the last 20 or 30 molesters arrested by police in your area. Tell me how many are identified by religion. It's a little work, but do it, if you maintain that a molester's religion is routinely reported.

[JW Insider]

Just now, TrueTomHarley said:

hen do a search for the last 20 or 30 molesters arrested by police in your area. Tell me how many are identified by religion. It's a little work, but do it, if you maintain that a molester's religion is routinely reported.

This came up before and I only answered it because this very thing was done. Except that in our case, all of us do represent ourselves as ministers, which to the world is pretty much the equivalent of clergy. And all of us will have contact with children in our preaching activity. Also, most of the cases among Witnesses involve other Witnesses, as we often limit our circle of trust to primarily Witnesses anyway. The last 20 or so that I heard about were primarily about teachers in some of the local elementary schools and a high school, and of course a few clergy and ministers, too. But the religious affiliation of the teachers was not part of the story, who quite possibly had no religious affiliation anyway.

Someone sent me a list of articles from Australia showing me that the ARC has begun to turn over several of the incidents to local police authorities. A few of the articles did NOT include the fact that these were about JWs and in a couple of cases disfellowshipped JWs. I had to do some further searching and questioning to verify that these were Witness cases, and not just cases from other ARC investigations. In most cases I was able to verify it.

[TrueTomHarley]

26 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Except that in our case, all of us do represent ourselves as ministers, which to the world is pretty much the equivalent of clergy.

While we may represent ourselves this way, few in the world take us up on it. Instead, they view us as a church whose members "have to" go door to door. The typical Witness in their eyes is a church member, not a person of the clergy.

Anything done can be done better. Anna pointed to new policies that offer improvement. Was it irresponsible not to have done it before? Who can say? There is nothing to compare it to. No other religion attempts what Witnesses attempt - investigating wrongdoing for the sake of meting out discipline and protecting the worldwide congregation and presenting to God "a [clean] people for his name."