WHEN DOES THE GREAT TRIBULATION BEGIN?

[Queen Esther]

"The  “Great  Tribulation.”

When answering the question of his disciples concerning the sign of his presence and the conclusion of the system of things, Jesus mentioned a “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” (Mt 24:3, 21) As a comparison of Matthew 24:15-22 with Luke 21:20-24 reveals, this had initial reference to a tribulation to come upon Jerusalem. The fulfillment came in 70 C.E., when the city was besieged by the Roman armies under General Titus. This resulted in severe famine conditions and much loss of life. The Jewish historian Josephus relates that 1,100,000 Jews died or were killed, whereas 97,000 survived and were taken into captivity. The temple was completely destroyed. Contrary to the wish of the Roman commander Titus, Roman soldiers set the temple itself on fire. According to Josephus, this took place in the same month and on the same day that the Babylonians had burned the former temple on this site. (The Jewish War, VI, 249-270 [iv, 5-8], 420 [ix, 3]; 2Ki 25:8, 9) The temple destroyed by the Romans has never been rebuilt. Such a “great tribulation” has not occurred again or been repeated upon Jerusalem. Nevertheless, Biblical evidence indicates that the tribulation upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. pointed forward to a far greater tribulation, one affecting all nations.
Jesus continued his prophecy by describing events that would occur during the centuries after Jerusalem’s destruction. (Mt 24:23-28; Mr 13:21-23) Then, at Matthew 24:29, he added that “immediately after the tribulation of those days,” there would be fear-inspiring celestial phenomena. Mark 13:24, 25 says that these phenomena would take place “in those days, after that tribulation.” (See also Lu 21:25, 26.) To what “tribulation” did Jesus there refer?
Some Bible commentators have reasoned that it was the tribulation that came upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E., though they also realized that the events described thereafter evidently would take place at a time that, from a human standpoint, was then distant. They reasoned that the expression “immediately after” conveyed God’s perspective of the time involved or that the certainty of what was to occur was being expressed by language that placed the events immediately before the reader.
However, since the prophecy at Matthew 24:4-22 (also Mr 13:5-20 and Lu 21:8-24a) clearly has a dual fulfillment, might the “tribulation” referred to at Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24 be the “tribulation” during the second and final fulfillment of what was foretold at Matthew 24:21 and Mark 13:19? Viewed in the light of the Bible as a whole, this seems most likely. Do the terms used in the Greek text allow for such a view? Definitely. When Matthew 24:29 refers to “those days” and when Mark 13:24 mentions “those days” and “that tribulation,” the Greek grammar does allow for such an understanding. It seems that Jesus’ prophecy is saying that after the outbreak of the coming global tribulation, there will be striking phenomena (as represented by sun and moon being darkened, stars falling, and powers of heaven being shaken) as well as fulfillment of “the sign of the Son of man.”
About three decades after Jerusalem’s destruction, the apostle John, with reference to a great crowd of persons from all nations, tribes, and peoples, was told: “These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation.” (Re 7:13, 14) Earlier, the apostle John had seen “four angels” holding back destructive winds so that the sealing of the 144,000 slaves of God might be completed. This sealing evidently links up with the ‘gathering of the chosen ones’ that Jesus foretold. (Mt 24:31) Accordingly, the final destructive fury of the “great tribulation” must come after the chosen ones have been gathered and their sealing is completed and when the four angels release the four winds to blow upon the earth, sea, and trees. (Re 7:1-4) The fact that a great crowd ‘comes out of the great tribulation’ shows that they survive it. This is confirmed by a similar expression at Acts 7:9, 10: “God was with [Joseph], and he delivered him out of all his tribulations.” Joseph’s being delivered out of all his tribulations meant not only that he was enabled to endure them but also that he survived the afflictions he experienced.
It is noteworthy that the apostle Paul referred to the execution of God’s judgment upon the ungodly as tribulation. He wrote: “This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” (2Th 1:6-8)

The book of Revelation shows that “Babylon the Great” and “the wild beast” have brought tribulation upon God’s holy ones. (Re 13:3-10; 17:5, 6) It therefore logically follows that the tribulation to come upon “Babylon the Great” and “the wild beast” is included in the “great tribulation.”—Re 18:20; 19:11-21.

[Witness]

Jesus replaced the early temple arrangement with his Body, built on the anointed apostles and prophets and “living stones” of the anointed ones who are spiritual “Israel”.    1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22

If there is a spiritual “Israel” (Rom 9:6; 2:28,29; Gal 6:15,16)

there is also a Jerusalem – “New Jerusalem”

and the first target of the Great Tribulation. 

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.”  Rev 7:1-4

The land, sea, tree, represent those with them, under the Wild Beast.  (Isa 57:20)

Matt 24:15 - “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand”

The “holy place” is none other than God’s Temple.  Check Strong’s concordance for G40; Bible use is “most holy thing, a saint”.  Today’s Temple is the Body of Christ, comprised of the anointed ones/holy priesthood/ New Jerusalem under the New Covenant.  1 Cor 6:19,20; Gal 4:26,28

The “abomination” standing over, sitting in, the “holy place” is the elder body/ false priesthood.  2 Thess 2:3,4; Dan 8:13

“Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” 

 

“Christendom” cannot be interpreted as being affected by this spiritual Great Tribulation, although Satan makes a good counterfeit fulfillment.    It is the “city” of “Jerusalem” and the location of God’s Temple where the spiritual “tribulation” breaks out.  The world has been judged during their lifetime (John 12:31);  it is those in covenant with God who are severely disciplined for their actions, as they are allowed to be sifted by a “powerful delusion”.    Ezek 14:21; Jer 34:17; Heb 12:7; 2 Sam 7:14; 1 Cor 11:32; Heb 12:11,5; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Luke 22:31; Rev 13:11,14-17

Rev 18:4-8 is speaking of those in covenant with God – “my people”, the anointed who are “gathered” already under the Wild Beast. “Every tribe, tongue and nation” listed in Rev 13:6-8 are those who also suffer under the Great Tribulation, once the anointed who have proven worthy and faithful, are sealed by refusing the “mark”/dedication, and accept only the mark of God.   Rev 9:4; 14:1

The Great Tribulation is here on the “city that is called by my name”, “New Jerusalem”  Jer 25:27-38

“Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.  And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.  When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:21-23

The Wild Beast "kills" those who refuse its mark.  The organization spiritually "kills" those who refuse to be dedicated to an organization; and who suffer as Christ did, at the hands of their own people.  Rev 13:15; 11:7; 12:17,11; Matt 5:11,12

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

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Remember the scriptures that differentiate between the Heavens, and the Earth?

Here is an interesting thought experiment for you .....

Let's say that mankind has a colony on Mars .... and on several of the moons of Jupiter ... and some mining operations going on in the Asteroid belt when the "Great Tribulation" comes, and generation star ships headed out toward the stars when the "Great Tribulation" comes .... how will it affect them?

Deducing an accurate answer to THAT question, and it can be done through logic and reasoning ... knowing what we know already ...  will give you how JEHOVAH GOD defines the "heavens, and the "Earth", and will when followed through give you the answer as to WHY Jehovah God made the physical Universe.

...and the long term destiny of mankind.

The most elusive question of all to be answered is..... WHY?

Once that is understood ... the WHAT becomes simple.

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[Melinda Mills]

That too high for me, but I can understand this:

(Amos 9:1-6) 9 I saw Jehovah stationed above the altar, and he said: “Strike the head of the pillar, and the thresholds will shake. Cut them off at the head, and I will kill the last of them with the sword. No one who flees will get away, and no one trying to escape will succeed.  2 If they dig down into the Grave, From there my hand will take them; And if they go up to the heavens, From there I will bring them down.  3 And if they hide themselves on the top of Carʹmel, From there I will search them out and take them. If they conceal themselves from my eyes on the bottom of the sea, There I will command the serpent to bite them.  4 If they go into captivity before their enemies, From there I will command the sword, and it will kill them; I will fix my eyes on them for bad, and not for good.  5 For the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of the armies, is the One who touches the land, So that it melts, and all its inhabitants will mourn; And all of it will rise like the Nile, And sink down like the Nile of Egypt.  6 ‘The one who builds his stairs in the heavens And establishes his structure over the earth; The one who summons the waters of the sea, To pour them out on the surface of the earth —Jehovah is his name.’
 

[Queen Esther]

To  @James Thomas Rook Jr.  -   We  want  understand  you...   but  your  answers  often  coming  from  SO  far  around  some  corner's  to  us,  thats  really  difficult   Can  you  also  take  a  shorter  and  simple  way,  or  its  more  fun  for  you  on  a  longer,  complicated  way?  I  just  think  so,

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Queen Esther:

Most people do not use logic and reason to discover NEW TRUTHS, and my previous posting was to help you determine the right QUESTIONS to ask.

If I told you the answer you would not believe it.

If You struggle and sweat to understand the question, and then the answer ... the joy is incredible.

It's HARD brain work, but it's worth it!.