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Watchtower and the Great Crowd Doctrine


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 The current understanding being promoted by the "Watchtower" is that the "Great Crowd" of (

    Hello guest!
) is the "earthly" group of redeemed mankind, which make it through the Great Tribulation .

However, is there something here that we have missed?  Or have we been deliberately misled? After all who is misleading the entire inhabited earth? (

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Jesus said if possible even the chosen ones. (
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) (
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Jesus said the truth will set you free. (
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)  We need to know what is true and what is not.  It is of utmost importance. 

The bible says “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar” (

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)

Jesus and his Father would not want us to believe a lie. Although many feel we should wait on God to rid us of lies (as if our believing them, are His fault), God Himself does not ask us to wallow in the untrue doctrines of men.    
However, he does not remove our free will. He allows leaders who choose to mislead others, as well as followers who choose to be mislead. 

The Father is a God of Truth.   (

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)    Jesus never taught that it is finer to surrender loyalty to the truth, in favor of keeping unity and peace at all cost with those who prefer to cling to errors and traditions.  He clung to God's word, defying the authority of his time even at the cost of his life.

Should we be loyal to, in harmony with, and in subjection to any religious leaders, at the cost of Truth? 

 An anointed one recently showed me that the Great Crowd described in Revelation (

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) may actually be the “Remnant” of sealed anointed ones who make it through the Great Tribulation.  
I put a link "Who is the Great Crowd"  written by this anointed one.  

(It is a more in-depth article) 
The link is located later in my article. 
 Also... this is not the first time that (

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) came under scrutiny.  
At the end of this article please see what happened in 1980.

        Some misconceptions are revealed over time, for instance in 1925 there was a public talk entitled “Millions now living will Never Die”.  That was later changed to “May” never die for obvious reasons.  If that talk were to be given today it would be:

 “ Millions then  living… are now dead ”.      Truth be told.

Other strongly entrenched things may need a deeper investigation in the scriptures (

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)
This may be the case with who really is the Great Crowd.  (
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)

The New World Translation at (

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) reads like this:  “After these things I saw, and, look! A great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes…”

We are told that these ones are the earthly class who are not anointed, because no man can number them, and because the Watchtower says that the number of anointed ones totals 144,000. ..A definite number.  But is this enough of an explanation? Should there be more scriptural evidence?

Are there any scriptures describing the anointed that fits in with the description listed in (

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)? 

Yes there are.

However, before we take a look at those scriptures, can any man (or woman) answer this question?

How many persons make up the “remnant” of sealed anointed ones, during the last days?  (Those sealed anointed ones who come out of the Great Tribulation)

Is any man able to number that?     The “remnant” is by definition the “left-over” ones, or the“remaining ones” of her seed (

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).  How many make up the remnant??? 

So it can be said that “no man is able to number” the size of the remnant.  It could be a great crowd.


Let’s look at those scriptures now:

  (

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)  Here in heaven, twice it is said of those in heaven... a… “Voice of agreat crowd  ” was heard.

 (New World Translation)

  (

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)  “…you bought persons out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” (NWT)...  (again, referring to the 144,000).

  (

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    Hello guest!
) speaks of the 144,000 anointed ones having “white outer garments” “white ones.”   At (
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) the armies are clothed in white, clean, fine linen. (NWT) 

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 shows that the army riding with Jesus are his chosen faithful ones:

New Living Translation

Together they will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them because he is Lord of all lords and King of all kings. And his called and chosen and faithful ones will be with him."

(

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)…The bride of the lamb is said to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen…(again speaking of the 144,000 anointed ones).

Other scriptures of interest concerning clean white garments, or robes are 
(

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;  
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)

But what about the sealed anointed being dressed in ...
“white robes”... can we be more specific?

Why yes.  In his ongoing vision, just before John sees this great crowd in... 
(

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dressed in “white robes” he saw the following:

 (

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    Hello guest!
,) (
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)
… “And a white “robe” was given to each of them.

So there it is…the description fits like a glove. 

 A great crowd… that no man is able to number,

Out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,

Standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes.

How can the Great Crowd be anointed ones, despite the fact that we can not "number" them?
If 144,000 is the total number of the anointed, and the anointed that come through the Great Tribulation can not be numbered; it is also possible that the Great Crowd is PART of the total number. How big is that part? Apparently, no one can say.
It is like the Great Crowd is a piece of a whole pie. How big is the slice? No one can say.

 

Here is some supporting research done by the group that had scrutinized the doctrine about the Great Crowd earlier back in 1980.

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 came under scrutiny  Back in 1980.    Quite a few of our brothers, highly respected members of our Watchtower Headquarters in Brooklyn N.Y. were disfellowshipped on charges of “Apostasy”.  Even a member of the Governing Body was forcibly removed and disfellowshipped.  The Governing Body would not re-consider the “doctrine” even though the scruitiny is based on solid evidence from the Holy Scriptures.

Here is some of their research concerning the Greek words used in Revelation as it refers to the location of the “Great Crowd”:
Naos: Divine Habitation, inner temple sanctuary…the Most Holy.

Naos refers to the inner sanctuary of the temple complex which included the Holy and Holy of Holies (or Most Holy).

Hieron is the Greek word for the entire temple complex with all its sub-structures and courts.

The distinction between these two terms is well defined in the Watchtower of August 15, 1960. Explaining the second chapter of John (which describes the presence of the money changers and all the animals which were being sold in the temple), page 493, paragraph two of the article entitled "The Temple of the Apostles' Time" says:

What kind of building could this be that had room for all this traffic? The fact is that this temple was not just one building but a series of structures of which the temple sanctuary was the center. In the original tongue this is made quite clear, the Scripture writers distinguishing between the two by the use of the words hieron and naos. Hieron referred to the entire temple grounds, whereas naos applied to the temple structure itself, the successor of the tabernacle in the wilderness. Thus John tells that Jesus found all this traffic in the hieron.

It was from the courts of the outer temple (hieron--not naos) that Jesus drove the money changers. (See 

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 and 
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 in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation.)


It was the entire temple (hieron--not naos) that was destroyed as a judgment from God. (See

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,
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 and 
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,
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 in the Kingdom Interlinear.)

The earthly courtyard is located "outside of  the temple [sanctuary] (naos)" while the "great crowd" of 

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 is described as being inside the temple sanctuary or naos

It is evident that throughout the book of Revelation the term naos is used repeatedly to refer exclusively to the innermost part of the temple, the heavenly sanctuary in its figurative application


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 says in the New World Translation:

But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple [sanctuary] (naos), cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations ["Gentiles"--AV, NEB, Moffat], and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.


Another point of importance is the fact that, at 

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, the "great crowd" is said to be"before the throne" of God.

As the Society's publications have pointed out, the Greek word translated "before" in this text isenopion and it literally means "in [the] sight [of]." (For example on page 123 of the book, Revelation Its Grand Climax at Hand [1988])

This Greek word is used repeatedly throughout the book of Revelation to locate objects and persons "before" or "in the sight of" God in heaven.

Looking up the following verses in The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scripturesmakes this clear:

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-

"Seven spirits that are before (enopionhis [God's] throne"

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"Seven lamps of fire burning before (enopion) the throne [of God]"

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"And before (enopionthe throne [of God] there is, as it were, a glassy sea like crystal."

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-

"The twenty-four elders fall down before (enopion) the One seated upon the throne..., and they cast their crowns before (enopionthe throne"

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"A great crowd, ... standing before (enopion) the throne and before (enopion)the Lamb"

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"And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before (enopion) the throne and worshiped God"

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"That is why they [the great crowd] are before (enopionthe throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service"

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"And another angel arrived and stood at the altar, having ... incense ... to offer ... with the prayers of all the holy ones upon the golden altar that wasbefore (enopionthe throne."

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"And I heard one voice out of the horns of the golden altar that is before (enopion) God."

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"And the twenty-four elders who were seated before (enopionGod"

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-

"And they [the 144,000] are singing as if a new song before (enopion) the throne and before (enopion) the four living creatures and the elders"

 

Since these other things are considered to be “in heaven”, it stands to reason that the “Great Crowd” can also be “In heaven” and therefore could very well be the anointed invited ones and not the earthly class of humans


This coupled with the scriptural evidence cited above in my article should be sufficient for any reasonable person to see that it is possible that the Great Crowd of (

    Hello guest!
can very well be the remnant of anointed ones who make it through the Great Tribulation in the last days.

Obadiah Doxsey 

 

 

 

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The current understanding being promoted by the "Watchtower" is that the "Great Crowd" of (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) is the "earthly" group of redeemed mankind, which make it through the Great Tribulation . However, is there something here that we have missed?  Or have we been deliberately misled? After all who is misleading the entire inhabited earth? (Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )

I have a hard time with most of this because it assumes things about the 144k that just isn't in the Bible. 

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      By Guest Nicole
      Although we sometimes call ourselves the great crowd, and indeed we are a great crowd/nation, the term actually refers to the part of Jesus's other sheep which will survive the great tribulation at the end of this wicked system of things. citation here

      When John saw the “great crowd” rendering sacred service in Jehovah’s temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?—Revelation 7:9-15.“It is reasonable to say that the great crowd worships Jehovah in one of the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple, specifically the one that corresponds with the outer courtyard of Solomon’s temple...... But as the heavenly elder said to John, the great crowd really is in the temple, not outside the temple area in a kind of spiritual Court of the Gentiles.” (w02 5/1 p. 30) Great Crowd renders service INSIDE the Sanctuary?
      Sanctuary [Greek: na’os]: “A place set apart for the worship of God or of gods, a holy place; a divine habitation.” (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 860)
      “Hierón referred to the entire temple grounds, whereas naós applied to the temple structure itself, the successor of the tabernacle in the wilderness.” (w60 8/15, p. 493)
      Remember, only Levite priests were permitted to enter the Holy chamber of the sanctuary, and only for the purpose of performing priestly functions, such as offering incense, as Zechariah did.
      “According to the solemn practice of the priestly office it became his turn to offer incense when he entered into the sanctuary [na’os: divine habitation] of Jehovah. . . Meanwhile the people continued waiting for Zechariah, and they began to wonder at his delaying in the sanctuary [na’os: divine habitation.”] (See Luke 1:9, 21 in Kingdom Interlinear)  
       

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. The Bible uses the same Greek word, na’os, to describe where the "great crowd" worship today in God's great spiritual temple.

      “That is why they [the great crowd] are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple [na’os: divine habitation].” (See Rev. 7:15 in Kingdom Interlinear)

      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Thus, according to God’s Word, the “great crowd” is rendering sacred service, not in the courtyard, but in the Holy sanctuary of God’s great spiritual temple.

      Regarding those worshipping in the sanctuary: “The Holy represents their condition as spirit-begotten sons of God, with heavenly life in view, and they will attain to that heavenly reward when their fleshly bodies are laid aside in death.—1Co15:50; Heb 2:10.” (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 1081)




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    • romain.eneau  »  misette

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    • Eric Ouellet

      Soyons reconnaissant devant toutes ses oeuvres
       
      Le Dieu des dieux, Jéhovah, parle ;
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      depuis le soleil levant jusqu’au soleil couchant.
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      et acquitte-toi des vœux que tu as faits au Très-Haut;
      appelle-moi en temps de détresse.
      Je te secourrai, et tu me glorifieras. »
      Mais Dieu dira au méchant :
      « De quel droit récites-tu mes prescriptions
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      et sans cesse tu tournes le dos à mes paroles.
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      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Dieu aime les prières et la sincérité de ses serviteurs humbles
       
      Dieu aime la bonté de coeur envers autrui et non aux sacrifices et holocaustes d'animaux sauvages et domistiques.
      Dans ton amour fidèle, accorde-moi ta faveur, ô Dieu.
      Dans ta grande miséricorde, efface mes transgressions.
      Lave-moi complètement de ma faute
      et purifie-moi de mon péché.
      Car je suis bien conscient de mes transgressions,
      et mon péché est constamment devant moi.
      C’est contre toi que j'ai failli, oui j'ai fait le mal
      devant tes yeux.
      Ainsi, tu es juste quand tu parles,
      tu es droit quand tu juges.
      Vois ! Je suis né coupable
      et, depuis l’instant où ma mère m’a conçu, je suis pécheur.
      Vois ! Tu prends plaisir à la vérité dans le fond du cœur;
      enseigne-moi la vraie sagesse, au plus profond de moi.
      Purifie-moi de mon péché avec l’hysope, pour que je sois pur;
      lave-moi, pour que je sois plus blanc que la neige.
      Fais-moi entendre le son de l’allégresse et de la joie,
      pour que les os que tu as broyés se réjouissent.
      Détourne ton visage de mes péchés
      et efface toutes mes fautes.
      Crée en moi un cœur pur, ô Dieu,
      et mets en moi un esprit nouveau, ferme.
      Ne me chasse pas de ta présence ;
      ne m’enlève pas ton esprit saint.
      Redonne-moi la joie d’être sauvé par toi;
      éveille en moi la volonté de t’obéir.
      Je veux enseigner tes chemins aux transgresseurs,
      pour que les pécheurs reviennent à toi.
      Libère-moi de la culpabilité de meurtre, ô Dieu, mon Dieu sauveur,
      pour que ma langue puisse proclamer joyeusement ta justice.
      Ô Jéhovah, ouvre mes lèvres
      pour que ma bouche proclame ta louange.
      Car tu ne veux pas de sacrifices — autrement, j’en donnerais ;
      tu ne prends pas plaisir aux holocaustes.
      Le sacrifice qui plaît à Dieu, c’est un esprit brisé ;
      un cœur brisé et broyé, ô Dieu, tu ne le rejetteras pas.
      Dans ta bienveillance, agis pour le bien de Sion ;
      bâtis les murailles de Jérusalem.
      Alors tu prendras plaisir aux sacrifices de justice,
      aux holocaustes et aux offrandes totales ;
      alors on offrira des taureaux sur ton autel.


      · 0 replies
    • Eric Ouellet

      Dieu aime les prières et la sincérité de ses serviteurs humbles
       
      Dieu aime la bonté de coeur envers autrui et non aux sacrifices et holocaustes d'animaux sauvages et domistiques.
      Dans ton amour fidèle, accorde-moi ta faveur, ô Dieu.
      Dans ta grande miséricorde, efface mes transgressions.
      Lave-moi complètement de ma faute
      et purifie-moi de mon péché.
      Car je suis bien conscient de mes transgressions,
      et mon péché est constamment devant moi.
      C’est contre toi que j'ai failli, oui j'ai fait le mal
      devant tes yeux.
      Ainsi, tu es juste quand tu parles,
      tu es droit quand tu juges.
      Vois ! Je suis né coupable
      et, depuis l’instant où ma mère m’a conçu, je suis pécheur.
      Vois ! Tu prends plaisir à la vérité dans le fond du cœur;
      enseigne-moi la vraie sagesse, au plus profond de moi.
      Purifie-moi de mon péché avec l’hysope, pour que je sois pur;
      lave-moi, pour que je sois plus blanc que la neige.
      Fais-moi entendre le son de l’allégresse et de la joie,
      pour que les os que tu as broyés se réjouiss.
      Détourne ton visage de mes péchés
      et efface toutes mes fautes.
      Crée en moi un cœur pur, ô Dieu,
      et mets en moi un esprit nouveau, ferme.
      Ne me chasse pas de ta présence ;
      ne m’enlève pas ton esprit saint.
      Redonne-moi la joie d’être sauvé par toi;
      éveille en moi la volonté de t’obéir.
      Je veux enseigner tes chemins aux transgresseurs,
      pour que les pécheurs reviennent à toi.
      Libère-moi de la culpabilité de meurtre, ô Dieu, mon Dieu sauveur,
      pour que ma langue puisse proclamer joyeusement ta justice.
      Ô Jéhovah, ouvre mes lèvres
      pour que ma bouche proclame ta louange.
      Car tu ne veux pas de sacrifices — autrement, j’en donnerais ;
      tu ne prends pas plaisir aux holocaustes.
      Le sacrifice qui plaît à Dieu, c’est un esprit brisé ;
      un cœur brisé et broyé, ô Dieu, tu ne le rejetteras pas.
      Dans ta bienveillance, agis pour le bien de Sion ;
      bâtis les murailles de Jérusalem.
      Alors tu prendras plaisir aux sacrifices de justice,
      aux holocaustes et aux offrandes totales ;
      alors on offrira des taureaux sur ton autel.


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