NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Barbara Anderson

This is from her official website;

Barbara Anderson was a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses from 1954 through 1997. She worked at Watchtower’s headquarters in Brooklyn, NY, from 1982 to 1992 where during her last four years there, she researched the movement’s official history (published in 1993) and did research as well as wrote a number of articles for their Awake! magazine. While working in the organization’s Writing Department, Barbara discovered that the Watchtower organization covered up child sexual molestation committed by Jehovah’s Witnesses..... 

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

I guess I’m using your tactics of forgetfulness. But, as usual, you cling to one word, “reinstate” while my words are Bethelite and friend. ItÂ’s a shame, team JWI resorts to wordplay. ThatÂ’s why I call it a team, based on your “accusation”. LOL!

when was it, that the Watchtower got disappointed, even with “persons having to do with the publication of information”, that it “dismissed” almost every person in the writing department? Didn’t you say you were from the writing department? Well, anyways, you claim to know everything about Bethel,  it must have slipped your mind, again.

Now, Bill Bowen the Kentucky Elder became good friends with Raymond. But, I’m sure we can come up with one or two Bethelite’s that got kicked out, and then returned because of their blood guilt, now I’m NOT talking about you. You thrive in leading God’s sheep astray, but, I'm talking about, honest repentant people. After all, claiming to know Bethel, and finding your claims like Attorney General “Sessions” inconsistent? Seems a bit odd for an active witness.

But as we know, with the “purge” there we 29,893 that got disfellowshipped, and I’m sure within that percentage, some returned that included repentant Bethelites.

But, since you have to keep “face” with your fanbase, I’ll stop now. After all, if you get approval from, opposers, you must be doing something right!

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Barbara Anderson was a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses from 1954 through 1997. She worked at Watchtower’s headquarters in Brooklyn, NY, from 1982 to 1992 where during her last four years there, she researched the movement’s official history (published in 1993) and did research as well as wrote a number of articles for their Awake! magazine. While working in the organization’s Writing Department, Barbara discovered that the Watchtower organization covered up child sexual molestation committed by Jehovah’s Witnesses..... 

Thanks I should have looked it up. It was correct, then, that she was not at Bethel when Raymond Franz was there, and she also came in just after I left, so I was not aware of the years she spent there prior to her work on the Proclaimer's book mostly in the 1990's.

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

Yes, I would say she and Joe knew what had happened with the purge and what was going on with Ray through Joe’s good Friend Richard Wheelock that would have been a witness to what was going on at Bethel before they were invited to Bethel in 1982. We know how Bethelite's like to gossip. This was before good old Ray and the Watchtower actually brought it to a close in 1983, while Barbara and Joe Anderson 

were STILL there.

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

I guess I’m using your tactics of forgetfulness.

Quite an admission on your part. But you shouldn't use forgetfulness as a "tactic." I certainly don't. Makes you sound like someone in every congressional hearing I've ever seen.

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

But, as usual, you cling to one word, “reinstate” while my words are Bethelite and friend. It’s a shame, team JWI resorts to wordplay. That’s why I call it a team, based on your “accusation”. LOL!

This is pure blame-shifting. You used the word "reinstate." I said I doubt it. Then you backed off your original claim about reinstatement and changed it to "come up with a Raymond supporter" and now you change it to "Bethelite and friend." So who is resorting to wordplay again?

Also, you have admitted to creating multiple accounts here. I have one account. Then you admit that you speak of "team JWI" because of my true accusation against you. This is the very definition of blame-shifting. It's about the same as Pee-Wee Herman saying, "I know you are but what am I?"

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

when was it, that the Watchtower got disappointed, even with “persons having to do with the publication of information”, that it “dismissed” almost every person in the writing department?

You are either confused, or as you admitted to doing before, perhaps you are using forgetfulness as a tactic. Including R.Franz and E.Dunlap (not including E.Chitty and L.Greenlees dismissed for unrelated reasons) only about 4, maybe 5 persons finally, were dismissed from Writing, and it was mostly the group that worked on the Aid Book. The actual expression you quote was about writers who built up the date 1975, not about dismissing people from the Writing Department:

*** w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 par. 6 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***

• In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.

In fact, far from being dismissed, those persons between 1968 and 1975 were more often rewarded and promoted for it, as they were showing loyalty to a theory being especially promoted by Fred Franz in spite of the measure of doubt that some "disloyal" people were expressing. Many of these early supporters of Fred Franz were coming from the Service Department (from where "[Our] Kingdom Ministry"/"Our Kingdom Service" had included a few infamous, pro-1975 statements) and the most "loyal" of these persons were "promoted" to the Writing Department.

Ironically, this very line in the "Choosing" book, was what prompted L.Greenlees to slam down on the desk of its writer (R.Lengtat) with Greenlees yelling about how this admission of guilt had "slipped through the cracks." There was a kind of unwritten rule in Writing that you NEVER admit guilt because it will be used against you. In those days, even if a false doctrine were being corrected, you never said you were "wrong" before, only that you were now "more right" -- the "light was getting even brighter."

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Didn’t you say you were from the writing department?

Never. I worked in the Art Department from just a few weeks after I arrived right up until I left Bethel. Simultaneously, I handled several research assignments for a specific committee reporting directly to Bert Schroeder for my last 4 years at Bethel and for a few years beyond while living in NYC. Most of the Art Department was either on or within one floor of the Writing Department at the time, just outside the Bethel Library at 124.

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Well, anyways, you claim to know everything about Bethel

LOL! How could anyone make such a claim? I've never claimed anything like that.

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

But as we know, with the “purge” there we 29,893 that got disfellowshipped, and I’m sure within that percentage, some returned that included repentant Bethelites.

I didn't say it wasn't possible, only that it wasn't substantiated as you claimed it could be.

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

if you get approval from, opposers

If it makes you feel better, I will admit that I consider you to be an "opposer." For a while, I admit that I really thought you might be the kind of opposer who just pretends to be a JW, so that it will appear that JWs always choose the Watchtower over the Bible no matter what the evidence. I thought you were trying to make it look like all JWs were in a cult. I soon realized that you were more likely a person who doesn't even realize he is opposing the Bible whenever the Watchtower makes an unsubstantiated claim. But I should also repeat that I love the truth of the Bible, and love the fact that the brothers who take the lead are primarily focused on serving Jehovah and they focus more on the moral character it takes to be a true Christian.

Sure, we also have carried over some odd doctrinal traditions, but there is no excess focus on such kinds of doctrines. When the GB have looked more closely at some of these through careful Bible study, they have made changes that seem to be almost always for the better, in my opinion. And is it a bad thing that the rest of us follow their lead, and adjust our thinking right along with them? Not at all. It shows that we are not married to the incorrect doctrines of the past. It shows that we humbly follow along and understand that progress will continue. We don't think it necessary to get out there and clamor for changes on our own timetable. We are satisfied that the rate of progress is reasonable. When Brother Splane gave a talk about this recently, he used the example of a person who just loved the ideas about the "great pyramid" but that when the change was made, he humbly accepted and followed the lead. He used this as an example for those who just loved the ideas about the prophetic dramas in all the Bible narratives and parables. Yet now that these hundreds of doctrines are being dropped, the brothers will humbly accept and follow the lead -- appreciating the progress.

This is a public forum, however, open to people who can read material and evidence from anywhere. So it is also a good place for Witnesses to show that they can hold their own opinions too. And even for fellow Witnesses, there is something called the Inoculation Effect or Inoculation Theory that can make it easier for other Witnesses to understand what kinds of changes and effect the Internet will undoubtedly have on us in the next few years. We will either have to completely change our focus onto "low-information" converts, or face facts. I prefer that we allow all ends of the information spectrum without prejudice.

 

---------edited to add:----------

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Yes, I would say she and Joe knew what had happened with the purge and what was going on with Ray through Joe’s good Friend Richard Wheelock that would have been a witness to what was going on at Bethel before they were invited to Bethel in 1982. We know how Bethelite's like to gossip. This was before good old Ray and the Watchtower actually brought it to a close in 1983, while Barbara and Joe Anderson were STILL there.

Bethelites are most likely STILL gossiping about R.Franz and R.Wheelock and even Joe and Barbara Anderson, even in 2017. But just to keep the timeline straight, the best evidence we have on all this still comes from R.Franz himself wh says:

R.Franz and his wife, Cynthia, requested a leave of absence in March 1980 and left Bethel late in March. In late April 1980 a list of questions was prepared by B.Schroeder and it was given to G.Suiter, K.Klein, J.Barr, L.Barry to begin questioning E.Dunlap first, then Schroeder himself interviewed the Writing Department. The secret tape where a Spanish brother had said that Cris Sanchez (Bethelite in Spanish Translation) had told him that even Rene Vazquez and Raymond Franz had similar questions had already been played for the Governing Body by Schroeder. I know that Schroeder was trying to set things in motion from late 1979 against R.Franz and it was finally working for him as of April 22, 1980 when Schroeder asked R.Franz if he could get to Brooklyn on April 29th.  Cris Sanchez was about to be disfellowshipped a few days later, on April 25, 1980, and Bert Schroeder had evidently tried to trick Raymond Franz into a judicial meeting to be held for him on April 29, 1980 to take advantage of the momentum. The GB didn't admit to Franz that his name was involved in this until May 8, 1980 and Franz flew back on May 19, 1980 for his first "trial."

[Guest J.R. Ewing]

47 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

You are either confused, or as you admitted to doing before, perhaps you are using forgetfulness as a tactic. Including R.Franz and E.Dunlap (not including E.Chitty and L.Greenlees dismissed for unrelated reasons) only about 4, maybe 5 persons finally, were dismissed from Writing, and it was mostly the group that worked on the Aid Book. The actual expression you quote was about writers who built up the date 1975, not about dismissing people from the Writing Department:

Good luck trying to clean up your mess. I must admit, I like the twisting of the tongue. Whatever makes you feel good at night. I guess, to those that enjoy throwing the Governing Body into a pit of fire, find, satisfaction somehow. The good thing, record shows I actually defend the Watchtower, while you, sight, with opposers and encourage them to do more of the same.

I didn't need a full page, to explain your inconsistencies, since the "purge" was carried over from the 70's to the 80's. Enjoy This beautiful day!!

[Vic Vomidog]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I worked in the Art Department from just a few weeks after I arrived right up until I left Bethel.

Aye. I too worked in the Art Department until me mates, what I thought was loyal, threw me under the ship in the Great Purge. Why, you say? For airbrushing feet in the songbook. Seas were rough then, I tell ye, but I never thought they would hurl me over the edge as the done me roommate Jonah. I hate em. I hate em. I hate em.

They weren't phony feet, I tell ye! I done me research. It was Stumpy McLevite. He was a shorty, as they say, and his head ended at most people's chest.

I'll get even, though. That one was a phony but I airbrushed thousands of real ones. I have them stored in a secret compartment in the Great Pyramid, right over the grand ballroom. Hehehe, nobody will ever find them!!!

[JW Insider]

30 minutes ago, J.R. Ewing said:

I must admit, I like the twisting of the tongue.

'Nuff said!

[Cognitionis]

I believe there is no reason for anyone to gossip in Jehovah’s organization, by either past or present members that still consider themselves active.

There were many levels of what was going on with the Watchtower, that opposers, now take advantage of. However, any question relating to these matters can be answered, honestly by the Watchtower, directly, or by reviewing past publications that relate to the cleansing of Jehovah’s House. There is no need to get secondhand accounts on these matters.

Contact the Watchtower, or research on your own, starting from 1966-1975, 1976-1980, 1981-1984

Yearbook 1979 page-30-1

At the same time, we will have in mind the scriptures that forewarn us of what to expect. Some will stumble and fall away or become unfruitful for various reasons. (Matt. 13:18-22) Furthermore, as shown at Revelation 3:15, 16, the Lord Jesus Christ, who knows the spiritual condition of each one who professes to be his follower, does not tolerate lukewarmness. He advises any who are in that state now to rectify their condition if they are to please him. And just as some deviated from the truth in the first century, it is not surprising that the same thing happens today. Jehovah knows those who belong to him. (2 Tim. 2:18, 19) Warning examples of what befell the Israelites as they were about to enter the Promised Land should keep us individually from becoming overconfident. (1 Cor. 10:12) The seriousness of this matter is emphasized in the fact that 29,893 were disfellowshiped last year. There is no question that our faith is being tested today. Jehovah will retain in his favor and service only those who are clean, yes, the ones striving to meet all the Scriptural requirements and prove themselves fit to be entrusted with the “good news.”—Mic. 6:8; 2 Cor. 6:17-7:1; 1 Thess. 2:4.

It only serves Satan’s propose when there is strife among the brothers.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

5 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said: But as we know, with the “purge” there we 29,893 that got disfellowshipped,

I remembered that  one WT study edition mentioned (before 25-30 years) how cca 60 000 JW members are df every year. Recently i have been read that this number now is about 80 000 per year.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Sure, we also have carried over some odd doctrinal traditions, but there is no excess focus on such kinds of doctrines. When the GB have looked more closely at some of these through careful Bible study, they have made changes that seem to be almost always for the better, in my opinion. And is it a bad thing that the rest of us follow their lead, and adjust our thinking right along with them? Not at all. It shows that we are not married to the incorrect doctrines of the past. It shows that we humbly follow along and understand  that progress will continue. We don't think it necessary to get out there and clamor for changes on our own timetable. We are satisfied that the rate of progress is reasonable. When Brother Splane gave a talk about this recently, he used the example of a person who just loved the ideas about the "great pyramid" but that when the change was made, he humbly accepted and followed the lead. He used this as an example for those who just loved the ideas about the prophetic dramas in all the Bible narratives and parables. Yet now that these hundreds of doctrines are being dropped, the brothers will humbly accept and follow the lead -- appreciating the progress.

This is a public forum, however, open to people who can read material and evidence from anywhere. So it is also a good place for Witnesses to show that they can hold their own opinions too. And even for fellow Witnesses, there is something called the Inoculation Effect or Inoculation Theory that can make it easier for other Witnesses to understand what kinds of changes and effect the Internet will undoubtedly have on us in the next few years. We will either have to completely change our focus onto "low-information" converts, or face facts. I prefer that we allow all ends of the information spectrum without prejudice.

It depends on JW person, and how he/she have need to focus himself on particular doctrines :))))) 

Adjust our thinking is good thing. But is that necessary to be according to GB adjustments or to some other source/s  is/are for further consideration.

Would  it be ok that JW member and/or person who are in study process to become JW, be warned in advance, that with accepting today's "light" he/she is not in "light" at all? And to understand how "the truth" at this very moment of his present  time, while he adopts it  as "pure water of truth from JHVH  spiritual table" is/are in fact under huge question and with real possibility and not only possibility but reality, how big portion of "food" is/are incorrect doctrines? And that his Second Yes (on second baptismal question from June 1 1985), on the day of baptism, means Yes for the progress will continue   And Not For The Main Reason - "You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Because he in fact don't know the truth for reason of - the truth are in progress and no one knows what will progress look like.  

You are, dear JWI, very experienced and you know very well how own opinions ended after judicial committee found that person is not "repentant enough and want to hold on own opinions" - ahahhaha. Because what is the purpose of having Own Opinions only on this or similar Forums and not be able that "this fire inside you" go out in the world and give testimony to other, to be Witness for Jesus, as he command or ask or hope we would be? To give even wrong testimony, it is not fail, because tomorrow is new day and our personal truth will experienced enlightening and will be new truth next day. :)))) 

 

[The Librarian]

[The Librarian]