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The set times of the nations

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"... and Jerusalem shall be trodden by the nations, until the set times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" - Luke 21:24 (TNM)
"Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" (CEI)
"Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" (New International Version)
"Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled" (New Living Translation)
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The "appointed times of the nations" are another topic that many Jehovah's Witnesses are struggling to be self-critical because of the connections more or less induced in relation to the "seven times" of Daniel chapter 4.
In the rare cases in which they had a chance to re-examine the application of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, you would probably have an answer like ... "Jesus also spoke of the appointed times of the nations!"
The "inherent logic" would be ... "As Jesus mentioned the appointed times of the nations, the interpretation of the seven times of Daniel chapter four is correct."
This statement is reasonable?
Before answering this question we start with the skim any objections on translation.
Is it correct to translate "appointed times", as does the New World Translation, or should have been translated simply "time" as the majority of the other translations?
The author of this article is not a greek expert or Jewish, but we will see how the Bible, alone , can effectively respond to this question.
We can do a search and see how the book Insight, for example, explains that "kairos greek noun (pl. Kairoi) ... according to a dictionary," means a fixed or defined period of time, a season, sometimes a time necessary or appropriate to the season "(Insight volume 1," set times of the nations ") and all this can be acceptable as it is also possible that other dictionaries give different meanings with as many logical and convincing explanations.
Who is right?
It is that the problem with human wisdom: everything is almost always the opposite of everything and is the majority to decide what is true and what is not.
Obviously conscientious research experts deserve respect and a "truth" conquered with effort and discipline is certainly more valuable than a "truth" simply taken or prepared by others.
We Christians, however, we have something more than human wisdom.
We have the Word of God and if something "is not clear" what is simply because it did not arrive on time or have not studied or meditated enough about this work extraordinary.
That the more correct translation is "times" or "appointed times" has absolutely no importance because it is obvious that the time is fixed or predetermined.
The nations, as we know them today, are governing by Satan and demons - see John 12:31; Daniel 10:20
To think that the time given to Satan to act is not fixed, that is predetermined, it would say that he could have acted undisturbed for as long as he wanted.
It is absolutely logical that if Satan challenged God's right to rule mankind and the fidelity of the same human beings, God has given him the time determined to prove his accusation.
Unlike Satan might say, and continue indefinitely to say "Give me more time ...".
In fact it is the one who will try to do, until the last moment, with its latest beast of nationalism - Compare Daniel 7:25
The context of Luke 21:24 speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and says it will be "trampled on by the nations until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" and also the term "finished" means that there was something predetermined.
The same term, "accomplished," is used by the Lord at the time of his death recorded in John 19:30.
What was accomplished?
They had fulfilled all the prophecies concerning Himself and His death accomplished, or fully accomplished, his assignment - Matthew 20:28
All this was predicted many years before, and in fact people reflexive and scholars of the Hebrew Scriptures could recognize who was the real reason of this Messiah.
In the same way the "times of the nations" are accomplished in the moment in which exhaust their time, which, evidently, is determined.
If the purists of the ancient greek is more properly translated "times" or "appointed times," we let them argue. We are interested in the Bible's message.
Of course the real "issue" that many would like to pull out after this diatribe is to try to understand whether translating "appointed times" we have wanted, somehow, to create a link with Daniel chapter four.
In practice, one wonders if the translation want to tell Jesus what he says is not that ... "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of escritti in Daniel chapter 4 are fulfilled."
Again we can say that the question does not concern us because it is always in the Bible that we must look for the answer.
If the Bible had actually explained that the seven days of the tree referred to the time given to the nations to take action before the coming of the Kingdom of God, then we could also discuss whether in Luke Chapter 21 Jesus made a parallel with those scriptures or not, but since Daniel chapter four absolutely not talk about this , the matter dies at birth.
What Jesus said, "times" or "appointed times," he could not, however, refer to Daniel chapter four.
 
These were due premises.
Now let's see what the Lord wanted to say and when and how to fulfill his words.
Meanwhile it is correct to conclude that the words of Jesus are not limited to the time of the destruction of Jerusalem to the nations, after 70 CE, continued to act coming to the present day.
Their time, therefore, has not yet been accomplished.
So we have to understand the two parties involved in this statement: Jerusalem and the nations.
For the first subject we have a problem.
Who is "Jerusalem"?
And 'the literal city, which not surprisingly there again in the end time, or is it God's people as a whole?
Many would say "it is the people of God," but the answer is not so obvious, and for various reasons.
One of these is that when Jerusalem was trodden down until you get to the destruction presumably there were no Christians.
So the destruction of Jerusalem not only came upon a literal city, but did not involve Christians absolutely (if we take it for granted that they listened to the warnings given by Christ over thirty years earlier) - Luke 21:20, 21
On the other hand, if the literal Jerusalem, one should ask why, today, a city that should not have more nothing "sacred" rivestirebbe so important in Jesus' words.
Well, the answer may surprise us.
The appointed times of the nations end up at the beginning of Armageddon because that is the time you will be destroyed. Only then they will have outlived their time.
If we read Revelation, in fact, we note that there is a time difference from when Jesus comes to power when, in fact, begins his war - Compare Revelation 11:15 and Revelation 19:19. 20
When Jesus takes power nations have not yet run out of time to act and this is clearly seen from everything that happens from Chapter 13 onwards.
This makes us understand that it is wrong to associate the term of the "appointed time of nations" in the presence of Christ.
As we saw in a previous article, since Jesus actually takes the power until the start of Armageddon have yet to spend three and a half years (see the article entitled "1290 and 1335 days") - see Revelation 11: 2; 13: 1-5
This is also in keeping with the words of Daniel speaks of this "king" who will try to change times and the law but they the "be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time" - Daniel 7:25
In practice will only forty-two months, really a short period of time to act - also see Revelation 24:12
If the appointed times of the nations ending at Armageddon and not the presence of Christ, then we must take the book Revelation and see what the actors involved and what happens in the vicinity of Armageddon.
We know it is God's people to be trampled savagely until the last moment of the satanic system.
This is accomplished through the last dominant empire, described as one of the heads slaughtered to death that lives, which blasphemes God, His Name, His abode and those who dwell in heaven and makes war against the saints and overcomes them - Revelation 13 : 3-7
At the end of these forty-two months granted to the beast, time runs out and starts Armageddon - Revelation 19:19, 20
Jesus referred to this incident when he said that Jerusalem would be trampled on by the nations "until the appointed times of the nations were not made"?
No, and we understand why if we identify other possible person involved in the matter.
We have said that talking about Jerusalem, we might refer to the literal city.
What other subject and which event, as in Revelation, heralds the beginning of Armageddon?
If we just read what is written in chronological order, the answer should be obvious: the destruction of Babylon the Great.
In several previous articles we discussed again the identity of Babylon the Great coming to the nation of Israel (which includes Jerusalem, of course).
 
If Babylon the Great is, therefore, Israel, in what sense was trampled on by the nations from 70 CE until now?
As we have seen in Article dedicated to Babylon, he reborn Israel not for God but for the political intrigues of nations.
Although his "rebirth" was well received by the world's religions as the return of the true Israel, it is a sham.
The founders of this new Israel did not give honor to God (many of them are not even believers), most do not appreciate the God of the Bible, but they replaced it with their traditions (cf. Matthew 15: 6).
They sought refuge and protection in the nations of this world.
Of the Israel remained the only geographical territory but the people who make up this nation form actually a modern Babylon.
In addition, the "founding" nations and the United Nations as a whole continue to trample this nation with their military installations * (see footnote)
We can therefore say that the literal city of Jerusalem, as well as all of Israel, is currently trampled on by the nations of the world.
How long will be trampled?
Until its destruction , of course - Revelation 17:16
It 'true that this destructive action is accomplished by the United Nations (ie part of the occupants) but remember that this event, after the period of weeping and mourning hypocrites rulers of the world, will mark the beginning of Armageddon.
From that moment on, no one can step on Jerusalem.
Clearly, at this point, we have to stop for a moment.
If Israel is Babylon the Great, it is clear that it should not have any positive meaning in his description (at the bottom of Babylon has always been the greatest enemy of God's people) yet Jesus, the basic writing of this article, mentions this event as if it was the liberation of Jerusalem.
It is as if to say ... "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until at some point ... but then, finally, will no longer be trampled."
It becomes easier to understand this expression if we understand that the nation chosen by God to His people still has its importance.
A nation, understood as a geographical territory, per se has no merit nor guilt.
So it is not the geographical territory to be condemned but people who live in that territory.
The nation of Israel was rejected as a people , because of their heart condition, but the land flowing with "milk and honey" is still the country chosen by Jehovah God for His People - Exodus 3: 8
The mountain is still the Adornment mountain, even in the time of the end, because chosen by God - Compare Daniel 11:45
The people who occupy that territory are no longer the people of God (and since they have become squatters denied) but the territory chosen by God was still God's chosen.
We should think that from the moment the land chosen by God and was later usurped by another people, God will destroy the people and also the permanently territory?
The destruction of Babylon is final in the sense that there will never be more people with these characteristics to occupy the camp of the saints - Compare Revelation 19: 3 with Ezekiel 38:17, 18
Obviously this does not mean at all that this place will never be inhabited - Compare Ezekiel 38:12
Jerusalem, then, and all of Israel will again be inhabited by the true people of God, the people who appreciated the privilege by producing the fruits, people who at that time will be gathered from four ends of the earth - Isaiah 11:11, 12
So it is no coincidence that the persecution of God's people, the real one, their terms to coincide with the destruction of Babylon the Great.
When nations have exhausted their time, which includes both the trampling of Jerusalem that persecution, that Armageddon will destroy this beast, and all compact peoples in the fight against the Lamb.
At that time Jerusalem will have been liberated and the people of God, after the required period spent in the "inner rooms", will head to the country that is still part of the promise and where soon begin again to flow with milk and honey - Isaiah 26: 20
By connecting properly to the scriptures, we realize wonderful How long this prophecy and what was diminished in an attempt to demonstrate an unprovable date?
God will lead us to the Promised Land, yet promising, as there is no longer any trace of Babylon the Great, and even of all those who, over time, this nation have trampled with impunity - Exodus 3: 8; Malachi 3: 6; Isaiah 55:10, 11
Only those who understand the prophecy properly can hope to be among those who will be prepared to reach it - Isaiah 11: 11, 12; 1 Corinthians 14: 8-11
    Hello guest!
we will be among those gathered "from the four corners of the earth"?
 
Footnote *: Apart from the fact that the modern nation of Israel was founded in 1948, the original territory was still trampled from 70 CE until today.
Using the word "until" Jesus leaves well understand that this trampling would have no respite, and so it is not correct to say that Jerusalem was trampled by his "re-foundation" precisely in 1948 until today.
Whatever people has settled in the territory of the original Israel (Jerusalem) over the past 2000 years, was no longer the people chosen by God and therefore we can say that the territory was trampled and desecrated by Gentiles.

 
 
 

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    • By Israeli Bar Avaddhon
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. until the appointed times of the nations Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. are fulfilled – Luke 21:24   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. What are "the appointed times of the nations"?   The "appointed times of the nations" are another topic that many Jehovah's Witnesses are struggling to be self-critical because of the connections induced more or less in relation to the "seven times" of Daniel chapter 4. In the rare cases in which they had a chance to re-examine the application of Nebuchadnezzar's dream, you would probably have an answer like ... "Jesus also spoke of the appointed times of the nations!" The "inherent logic" would be ... "As Jesus mentioned the appointed times of the nations, the interpretation of the seven times of Daniel chapter four is correct." Is this a reasonable statement? Before answering this question let's start immediately with the skim any objections on the translation. Is it correct to translate "appointed times", as does the New World Translation, or should have been translated simply "time" as the majority of the other translations? The author of this article is not an expert in Greek or Hebrew but we will see how the Bible, by itself, can effectively answer this question. We can do a search and see how the book Insight, for example, explains that "kairos greek noun (pl. Kairoi) ... according to a dictionary," means a fixed or defined period of time, a season, sometimes a time necessary or appropriate to the season "(Insight volume 1," set times of the nations ") and all this can also be shared as it is possible that other dictionaries give different meanings with as many logical and convincing explanations. Who is right? This is the problem with human wisdom: everything is almost always the opposite of everything and it is not the majority that establishes what is true and what is not. Obviously conscientious research of experts deserve respect and a "truth" conquered by effort and discipline is certainly more appreciable than a "truth" simply taken or prepared by others. We Christians, however, have something more than human wisdom. We have the Word of God and if something "is not clear" it simply depends on the fact that the time has not arrived or we have not studied or pondered enough on this extraordinary Work. That the more correct translation is "times" or "appointed times" has absolutely no importance because it is obvious that the time is fixed or predetermined. The nations, as we know them today, are rulers of Satan and demons - see John 12:31; Daniel 10:20 To think that the time given to Satan to act is not fixed, that is, predetermined, would mean that he could act undisturbed for as long as he wanted. It is absolutely logical that if Satan challenged God's right to govern humanity as well as the fidelity of human beings themselves, God gave him time to prove his accusation. Otherwise Satan could say, and continue to say indefinitely "Give me more time ...". In fact, it is what he will try to do, until the last moment, with his last nationalistic beast - Compare Daniel 7:25 The context of Luke 21:24 speaks of the destruction of Jerusalem and says that it will be "trampled by the nations until the times of the nations are accomplished" and even the term "accomplished" means that there was something predetermined. The same term, "accomplished", is used by the Lord at the time of his death reported in John 19:30. What was accomplished? They had fulfilled all the prophecies concerning Himself and His death accomplished, or fully accomplished, his assignment - Matthew 20:28 All this had been foreseen many years before and indeed the reflective and scholarly people of the Jewish scriptures could have recognized who the true Messiah was because of this. In the same way, the "times of the nations" are fulfilled when they exhaust their time which is evidently determined If the purists of the ancient greek is more properly translated "times" or "appointed times," we let them argue. We are interested in the biblical message. Of course the real "issue" that many would like to pull out after this diatribe is to try to understand whether translating "appointed times" we have wanted, somehow, to create a link with Daniel chapter four. In practice, one wonders if the translation want to tell Jesus what he does not say that is ... "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times described in Daniel chapter 4 are fulfilled." Even in this case we can say that the question is futile because it is always in the Bible that we must look for the answer. If the Bible had actually explained that the seven times of the tree referred to the time given to nations to act before the coming of the Kingdom of God, then we could also discuss whether in Luke chapter 21 Jesus made a parallel with those scriptures or not, but since Daniel chapter four absolutely not talk about this, the matter dies at birth. What Jesus said, "times" or "appointed times," he could not, however, refer to Daniel chapter four. It is possible to find a detailed description of this subject at the following link Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. (for now, only in italian language) These were the premises due. Now let's try to see what the Lord meant and when and how his words are fulfilled. In the meantime, it is correct to conclude that Jesus' words are not limited to the time of the destruction of Jerusalem because the nations, after the 70th E.V., continued to act arriving in our day. Therefore, their time has not yet been completed. Therefore we must understand the two subjects involved in this statement: Jerusalem and the nations. For the first subject we have a problem. Who is "Jerusalem"? And 'the literal city, which not surprisingly there again in the end time, or is it God's people as a whole? Many would say "it is the people of God" but the answer is not so obvious and for various reasons. One of these is that when Jerusalem was trodden down until you get to the destruction presumably there were no Christians. So the destruction of Jerusalem not only fell upon a literal city, but did not involve Christians at all (if we take for granted that they listened to the warnings given by Christ over thirty years before) - Luke 21:20, 21 On the other hand, if it were the literal Jerusalem we should ask ourselves why today, a city that should have nothing more "sacred" would have such importance in the words of Jesus. Well, the answer may surprise us. The appointed times of the nations end up at the beginning of Armageddon because that is the time you will be destroyed. Only then will they have exhausted their time. If we read Revelation, in fact, we notice that there is a temporal difference from when Jesus takes power to when, actually, begins His war - Compare Revelation 11:15 and Revelation 19:19, 20 When Jesus takes power, the nations have not yet run out of time to act and this is clearly seen from everything that happens from chapter 13 onwards. This makes us understand that it is wrong to associate the term of the "appointed time of nations" in the presence of Christ. As we saw in a previous article, since Jesus took power until the beginning of Armageddon, three and a half years have to pass (see the article titled "1290 and 1335 days") - see Revelation 11: 2; 13: 1-5 This is also in harmony with the words of Daniel who speaks of this "king" who will try to change the times and the law but they "will be given to them for a time, and times and half a time" - Daniele 7:25 In practice it will only have forty-two months, really a short time to act - see also Revelation 12:12 If the appointed times of the nations ending at Armageddon and not the presence of Christ, then we must take the book Revelation and see what the actors involved and what happens in the vicinity of Armageddon. We know that it is God's people who are trampled savagely until the last moment of the Satanic system. This is accomplished through the last dominant empire, described as one of the heads slaughtered to death that lives, which blasphemes God, His Name, His abode and those who dwell in heaven and makes war against the saints and overcomes them - Revelation 13 : 3-7 At the end of these forty-two months granted to the beast, time ends and begins Armageddon - Revelation 19:19, 20 Did Jesus refer to this event when he said that Jerusalem would be trampled on by the nations "until the appointed times of the nations were fulfilled"? No, and we understand why if we also identify the other possible subject involved in the matter. We have said that speaking of Jerusalem we could refer to the literal city. What other subject and what event, in Revelation, preludes the beginning of Armageddon? If we only read what is written in chronological order, the answer should be taken for granted: the destruction of Babylon the Great. In various previous articles we have re-discussed the identity of Babylon the Great by coming to the nation of Israel (which includes Jerusalem, of course). If you have not already done so, you can find a detailed description in the following link Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   If Babylon the Great is therefore Israel, in what sense has been trampled by the nations since 70 E.V. until now? As we saw in the article dedicated to Babylon, Israel is reborn not by God's will but because of the political intrasps of the nations. Although its "rebirth" has been accepted by the religions of the world as the return of true Israel, it is a mystification. The founders of this new Israel have not given honor to God (many of them are not even believers), they no longer appreciate the God of the Bible but have replaced it with their traditions (compare Matthew 15: 6). They sought refuge and protection in the nations of this world. Only the geographical territory of ancient Israel has remained, but the people who make up this nation actually form a modern Babylon. Furthermore, the "founding" nations and the United Nations as a whole continue to trample this nation with their military settlements * (see footnote). We can therefore say that the literal city of Jerusalem, as well as all of Israel, is currently being trampled by the nations of the world. Until it will be trampled? Until its destruction, of course - Revelation 17:16 It is true that this destructive action is carried out by the United Nations itself (ie part of the occupiers) but let us remember that this event, after the period of crying and mourning of the hypocrites rulers of the world, will mark the beginning of Armageddon. From that moment onwards no one will be able to step on Jerusalem. At this point it is clear that we must stop for a moment. If Israel is Babylon the Great, it is clear that it should have no positive meaning in its description (in the end Babylon has always been the greatest enemy of God's people) yet Jesus, in the basic writing of this article, mentions this event as if was the liberation of Jerusalem. It is as if he were saying ... "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until a certain point ... but then, finally, it will no longer be trampled on!". It becomes easy to understand this expression if we understand that the nation chosen by God for His people still has its importance. A nation, understood as geographic territory, has no merit or guilt. So it is not the geographical territory that is condemned but the people that populate this territory. The nation of Israel has been rejected as a people, because of their condition of heart, but the country where "milk and honey" flows is still the country chosen by Jehovah God for His people - Exodus 3: 8 The mountain of the Adornment is still the mountain of the Adornment, even in the time of the end, because chosen by God - Compare Daniel 11:45 The people who occupy that territory are no longer God's people (and therefore since they have denied it they have become abusive occupants) but the territory chosen by God has nevertheless been chosen by God. We should think that from the moment when the territory chosen by God was then usurped by another people, God will destroy that people and also the territory in a definitive way? The destruction of Babylon is final in the sense that there will never be more people with such characteristics to occupy the field of saints - Compare Revelation 19: 3 with Ezekiel 38:17, 18 Obviously this will not mean at all that this place will never be inhabited again - Compare Ezekiel 38:12 Jerusalem, then, as well as all of Israel will once again be inhabited by the true people of God, that is, the people who have appreciated this privilege by producing its fruits, a people that will be gathered from the four extremities of the earth - Isaiah 11:11, 12 So it is no coincidence that the persecution of the people of God, the real one, ends precisely in conjunction with the destruction of Babylon the Great. When nations have exhausted their time, which includes both the trampling of Jerusalem that persecution, that Armageddon will destroy this beast, and all compact peoples in the fight against the Lamb. At that moment Jerusalem will have been freed and the people of God, after the necessary period spent in the "inner rooms", will be able to go to that country which is still part of the promise and where in a short time it will start to flow milk and honey - Isaiah 26: 20 Connecting properly to the scriptures, we realize how wonderful is these prophecy and how was diminished in an attempt to demonstrate an unprovable date? God will lead us to the Promised Land, still promised, when there is no longer any trace of Babylon the Great, nor of all those who over time have trampled upon this nation with impunity - Exodus 3: 8; Malachi 3: 6; Isaiah 55:10, 11 Only those who understand the prophecy properly can hope to be among those who will be prepared to reach it - Isaiah 11: 11, 12; 1 Corinthians 14: 8-11
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