Watchtower pays $4000 per day for disobeying Secular Authority

[Evacuated]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

And in his last days he took young virgin girl to warming his bed. And his servants had important role in that arrange.

And your point regarding this???

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

two sort of Responsibility - Personal and Collective in WT Society.

Good to be reminded thank you very much. Yes, we are very well aware of these personal and "collective", (think I understand this term), areas of responsibility which is why we, for example  1. obey 1 Pet.3:21, and 2. obey Rev 18:4. 

42 minutes ago, Witness said:

The Bible makes clear, that there are cases which DO NOT require two witnesses, such as murder and rape (Deut.22:25-27)

Great examples, but in the case of unwitnessed alleged murder, the city of refuge arrangement has relevance.

The unwitnessed rape incident is also intriguing. Was Jehovah ever called as a witness additional to the victim?

[Srecko Sostar]

21 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

"collective", (think I understand this term),

What is COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY?

Every member's responsibility regardless of an individual member's involvement in decisions or the member's position or rank. Refer also to consensus and doctrine of individual responsibility.

Law Dictionary: What is COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY? definition of COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY (Black's Law Dictionary) 

[Srecko Sostar]

24 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

And your point regarding this???

just illustration for wider picture, you will find connection  

[Srecko Sostar]

21 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Look up the word "precedence" to understand what the San Diego judge is attempting to achieve by overstepping his legal authority.

... and God have done some precedent action too, so why would not San Diego judge set his precedent too? He have God's permission for such action. God put him to that position according to JHVH words in Bible. 

If some worldly Judge make favor decision for WT, you would praise God for that, don't you?

So praise God also, when Judge made decision that is not for WT benefit. 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

 The devil led him to Jerusalem and had

Who is your devil today, this evening (in my place is 10.14 pm) 

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

The unwitnessed rape incident is also intriguing. Was Jehovah ever called as a witness additional to the victim?

Yes, when Jesus was a victim of false accusations against him.

So the Pharisees said to him, “You are testifying about yourself. Your testimony is not valid.”

 “Even if I testify about myself,” Jesus replied, “My testimony is true, because I know where I came from and where I’m going. But you don’t know where I come from or where I’m going.  You judge by human standards. I judge no one. And if I do judge, my judgment is true, because it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. Even in your law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true.  I am the one who testifies about myself, and the Father who sent me testifies about me.”  John 8:13-18

The authentic priesthood becomes one with Christ as members of his Body.  1 Cor 12:7-11,12; Rom 15:6; 1 Cor 2:16   The Holy Spirit resides in their heart (if faithful) and through their anointing, God’s laws are written on the heart. 2 Cor 3:3; Heb 8:10; God’s judgments can be made through the power of Holy Spirit,  who reads each heart, including the victim’s.  In the case of the adulterous woman whom the Pharisees wanted to stone, she was “caught in the act”, but Jesus’ wisdom still allowed the woman her freedom. John 8:2-11  Solomon also used wisdom God had given him through Holy Spirit, when dealing with the woman who stole the other woman’s baby.  There were not two witnesses in that case, but the baby was restored to its real mother.  1 Chron 1:11,12

Today, the elder body, the false priesthood, cannot reside over such cases with any success, since the Holy Spirit from God does not dwell within their hearts. (Eph 2:22)  It never will, since they are not anointed, (1 John 2:27) and have replaced the authentic priesthood, which is an abomination. Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15; Ezek 44:7; Luke 21:24; Rev 11:1,2

Within the anointed Body,

 “A manifestation of the Spirit is given to each person for the common good:  to one is given a message of wisdom through the Spirit, to another, a message of knowledge by the same Spirit” 1 Cor 12:7,8

Eph 4:1-6

 

 

 

 

 

[Anna]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

It places blame on the incapable victim, should they be molested, by depicting an image of a child with her hand up, to her would-be rapist

I have to disagree with this.  Just because you are a child, doesn't mean you are incapable, talk to parents everywhere and they will tell you children can be very capable! When that child has a strong emotional bond with their parent, and knows they can trust a parent, even if they do not fully understand something, then they will be more than eager to listen to that parent. Especially small children (as they get older they have their own ideas). It's interesting to see that worldly attitudes tend to focus on the cure rather than prevention. How much better is it when a child does not even have to experience such a traumatic event, rather than having to spend years in psychological counseling. How much better is it when people prevent diseases by living a healthy lifestyle, rather than spend the rest of their life visiting doctors and taking pills.  A child who is taught that certain actions that some people do are wrong, they tend to run and tell their parent on them if they identify it. That, coupled with vigilant parents who do not leave their children unattended and who recognize the signs of suspicious behavior on the part of someone who is interacting with their child, then that child's safety is almost guaranteed. But of course you can't expect that sort of discipline from everyone, especially not when they are dysfunctional in some way, or if they do not value God's laws. Regardless of anything though, blame is never put on the victim.

You can't rely on training a rapist not to be one, but you can train yourself not to be a victim.

[Witness]

39 minutes ago, Anna said:

When that child has a strong emotional bond with their parent, and knows they can trust a parent, even if they do not fully understand something, then they will be more than eager to listen to that parent.

I agree with most all that you are saying, except many children are abused by a parent; a parent they thought they could trust.  Also, I was abused as a girl by someone in the extended family. Because my parents thought so highly of the individual, I never had the heart to tell them of my abuse that lasted years, even though I had an especially close bond with my father.  They died not knowing the sordid truth about my abuser.

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Yes, when Jesus was a victim of false accusations against him.

Quite true there. Jesus and Jehovah were two witnesses as to the genuineness of his Messianic role. Now, that is an excellent debunking of the Trinity myth.

But I was actually referring to the unwitnessed crime at De.21:26-27? 

[Evacuated]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Every member's responsibility regardless of an individual member's involvement in decisions or the member's position or rank. Refer also to consensus and doctrine of individual responsibility.

Yeah thanks for the reference. I think I understood it correctly. I covered it with Rev.18:4.

Bit like the suspected reasons for the targeting of Andrey Gosht's family?

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

The unwitnessed rape incident is also intriguing. Was Jehovah ever called as a witness additional to the victim?

I’m not sure what you’re getting at.  This was God’s decree, an incident where two witnesses were not needed to accuse the guilty.   Aren’t God’s decrees enough of a “witness”? The Wt. refuses to acknowledge these scriptures; and correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember  G. Jackson said they didn’t apply.  If he had spiritual wisdom, he could see how they would apply to the child abuse issue today.  Ps 119:1-4,18,27,32-34,66 

 

[Evacuated]

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Aren’t GodÂ’s decrees enough of a “witness”?

Well the statement at De.19:15 is pretty explicit.

If we read De. 22:25-27, it says the sexual crime is the same as a murder (presumably also unwitnessed by an independent party). Now I know a corpse is a silent witness of a sort, but the testimony is a little obscure, and without clarity, it would be difficult to convict, so there were a number of arrangements in place to deal with that situation.

However,  leaving that to one side, in the case of a sexual crime, the victim is one witness who might be able to testify; the circumstance seems to provide some circumstantial evdence. Is there any suggestion of how Jehovah could serve as a witness (which he surely could)? In Jesus case he did actually testify verbally from the heavens. In the case of David and Bathsheeba, he served as a witness sending Nathan. Just wondering, as Deuteronomy is rather sparse? There is some danger of a false accusation which presumably is a reason for the 2-witness rule in the first place. Any records or ideas shedding light here?

But please forgive me. This is veering off topic again. i will withdraw until the subject is discussed separately.

I have posted it here in case some constructive information can be contributed: