What does a person have to do to survive Armageddon?

[Saladin]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

The GB has exalted itself above all others, acting as Master over the anointed Body of Christ.  They have replaced Christ as the Head.   Is this what Christ expects them to do?  Ezek 21:25; Matt 23:12; Matt 20:25-28; 1 Cor 12:23-26

1

Dear Witness.

unfortunately, I cannot be as aggressive and salty with my comments as you can. So, I'm restricted to my comments. I believe my remark of being rude still carries to your response.

I believe one of my posts was deleted for an unknown reason that had nothing to do with violating any civil conduct, other than having that authority to do so.

I do respectfully disagree with your assessment. Further understanding of logistics would carry over to accountability and responsibility.

Consider this,

The condition, wherein a person is expected to take ownership of one's actions or decisions, is called accountability. Responsibility refers to the obligation to perform the delegated task. ... Responsibility is assigned whereas accountability is accepted. The origin of responsibility is the assigned authority.

http://keydifferences.com/difference-between-responsibility-and-accountability.html

[Witness]

14 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

They have never said anything bad about "the anointed",  that I know of.

Nana, you have totally misunderstood my intentions.  If anything, I defend the anointed - my brothers and sisters -  against a wicked slave.  I worry about their lives.  I worry and pray for all JWs.  Rev 11:3

These words are simple, yet direct.  They tell the story.

Each anointed one, GodÂ’s chosen people (Isa 43:10; 2 Pet 2:5,9) is subject to Satan and his lies, during their lifetime. They must make the choice to either love the lie, or the truth coming directly from their Master, Jesus. John 14:26 In SatanÂ’s world, following truth in Christ is always the hardest choice because he holds out to all of us, pleasures that can take us away from God. Luke 22:31; 4:5-7

During the final days, before God’s Kingdom arrives, the last anointed ones are tested by Satan’s most powerful delusion; a lie, which is offered as “truth”. 2 Thess 2:9-12; Amos 3:5 Anointed ones, who have Holy Spirit put into their heart, can recognize truth, so they are drawn into Satan’s trap. They imagine they have found the way of truth that GOD has provided us! 1 John 2:27; Luke 21:35,36

Satan has “built” the organization, a trap!, to catch not only all anointed ones, but others as well, like you and all JWs. 2 Tim 2:26; Rev 10:11; 17:15 To do this, he convinced anointed ones to serve him, by offering the same gift of power, fame, money and dominance over others, that he offered Jesus. Luke 4:7; 1 Pet 5:8 We know that anointed ones can fall away from Christ because the scriptures teach us this. 1 John 2:19; Jude 12,13 They become Satan’s puppets to do his most deceitful will – to kill off all other anointed ones. Gen 3:15; 2 Cor 11:13-15; Luke 21:8 

God allows this to happen, just as he allowed Job to be tested by Satan. Job 1:9-12; 2 Thess 2:11,12 For  more than a hundred years, Satan has perfected his “synagogue”, the Watchtower; where Revelation’s descriptions of the false prophet/harlot (GB) and the Beast (organization) are described. But we must use our mind and heart to understand it. Rev 3:3,17-20; 16:12-16 That can only be done by turning to Christ and God to help us – not Satan’s synagogue. John 14:6; Rev 2:9

“And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon,(Satan) out of the mouth of the beast,(organization) and out of the mouth of the false prophet.(Governing Body) For they are SPIRITS OF DEMONS, performing signs, which go out to the kings (anointed ones) of the earth and of the whole world, to GATHER THEM to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
“Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.” Rev 16:13-16

Where are the anointed ones “gathered”? It is in the Watchtower! The battle of Armageddon is “fought” on the “low plain of DECISION”. Joel 3:14 It is not fought in Satan’s world, which is his entire empire. It is fought in the “heavenly” realm right this minute - the battle of truth in Christ against the lies of Satan. WE decide if we love the truth, or the lie. 2 Tim 4:7; Eph 6:12

Does it truly make any sense that God would bless an organization that runs the same way as any other organization, through money and your dedication to work for them? NO! The organization is not a temple, but is an idolatrous “shrine” that requires upkeep. Read Acts 17:24,25 

The Harlot, False prophet of Revelation is the Governing Body. They are fallen anointed ones. Rev 8:11; 13:11-14 The Wild Beast is the organization. 2 Thess 2:1-12; Rev 13:5-10 We are close to the coming Kingdom of God, because these signs are being fulfilled. Rev chapter 13. 

Do they have power over the “holy ones” as Revelation 13 brings out? Yes! The Governing Body has made the anointed ones in subjection to an appointed elder body. God’s chosen priesthood (2 Pet 2:5,9) must OBEY others, and not Christ. Just like you. No one should make you obey men, something you have been taught from the very beginning but fail to see you do this in the Wt. Acts 5:29 When you see God’s people trampled by others, a false priesthood, you are to leave the Watchtower and save your life! Matt 24:15,16

To get a bigger picture of the situation with the anointed under the GB's thumb, you can read here.  It is the October 10th comment under this topic:

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Saladin said:

The condition, wherein a person is expected to take ownership of one's actions or decisions, is called accountability. Responsibility refers to the obligation to perform the delegated task. ... Responsibility is assigned whereas accountability is accepted. The origin of responsibility is the assigned authority.

“But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.”  Matt 12:36

Does this exclude the Watchtower leaders who mislead thousands with failed prophesies?  

Our responsibility is to uphold Truth – never a lie.  Our responsibility is to uphold scripture, not men’s doctrines.  

Can you see this?

“I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.
I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
 But if they had stood in My counsel,
And had caused My people to hear My words,
Then they would have turned them from their evil way
And from the evil of their doings.” Jer 23:21,22

The way many JWs cater to the Watchtower’s leaders, is as if God has turned a deaf ear to their sins.

“Am I a God near at hand,” says the Lord,
“And not a God afar off?
 Can anyone hide himself in secret places,
So I shall not see him?” says the Lord;
“Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.

 “I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’  How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,  who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.  Jer 23:23-27

Armageddon - fought in the valley of decision.  It is here.  Surely, you must be feeling the battle of truth against lies, as we speak.  Eph 6:12

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Anna said:

start a new religion

Oh no, no , .... satan would corrupt me too as he has done with all other also :)))

[Noble Berean]

23 hours ago, Anna said:

“Now, the Governing Body realises that if we were to give some direction that is not in harmony with God's word, all of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide who have the Bible would notice that and they would see that it was wrong direction”.

I also watched the ARC, and I found Br. Jackson's comments to be conflicting with GB endorsed statements by the WT. Now, I do have confidence in my fellow JWs, and I don't think JWs have such blind faith in the GB that they would do something way off-base from the Bible's message. But to suggest that JWs would never do something out of harmony with the Bible? The history of our organization verifies that JWs obediently follow the GB--even when their direction is wrong. Had I been at the ARC, my follow up question to Br. Jackson would have been: What do you suppose JWs should do if they hear incorrect direction from the GB? In the July 15, 2006 WT, it says, "What if we are tempted to murmur because of having doubts about certain teachings that Jehovah’s people hold in common? Then let us not be impatient. The ‘faithful slave’ may eventually publish something that answers our questions and clears up our doubts. It is wise to seek the help of Christian elders."

It's pretty clear that JWs are not to jump ahead of the GB and the org if we have doubts. This "wait on Jehovah" attitude is pretty much the standard view in the org. We can't take matters into our own hands; we have to wait for the org to change. Some are waiting for changes that may never happen. All the while, our conscience is conflict--do we follow our own Bible conscience or keep with the group?

On 11/27/2017 at 7:49 PM, Anna said:

This brings us to the notorious question of interpretation, but by our baptism, didnÂ’t we agree with the interpretation?

But our interpretation is in constant flux, isn't it? If a major thinking changes after baptism--do we need rebaptized? I think the point is our heart condition. If we serve Jehovah out of a loving heart, we don't have to have all the right answers.

On 11/27/2017 at 7:49 PM, Anna said:

But there are some basic things in

 the Bible that have not changed right from the beginnings

 of the Jehovah's Witness religion, and I won't take your

  time, obviously, going through those, but it is important

  to realise what are basic things in the Bible.  For

  example, is the Bible from God?  There is no possibility of

  us changing our viewpoint on that" end of quotes

Yep, that's a basic truth we can all agree on, Br. Jackson . But after that, who decides what's a "basic thing" that should not change? Many things have changed, so much so that the landscape of the religion is pretty different from the start.

On 11/27/2017 at 7:49 PM, Anna said:

That I think would seem to be quite presumptuous to say that we are the only spokesperson that God is using. The scriptures clearly show that someone can act in harmony with God's spirit in giving comfort and help in the congregations, but if I could just clarify a little, going back to Matthew 24, clearly, Jesus said that in the last days - and Jehovah's Witnesses believe these are the last days - there would be a slave, a group of persons who would have responsibility to care for the spiritual food.  So in that respect, we view ourselves as trying to fulfill that role.

 

This just doesn't jive with our organization's teachings. The GB definitively claims it is the sole channel of communication from God. For Br. Jackson to vacillate and suggest that they aren't the sole composite spokesperson is IMO disingenuous. If you asked any JW, "Who are the spokespeople on earth for God?" the answer would not be the one Br. Jackson gave. With a statement like that, you might even get taken to the back of the KH!

Consider what it says in the November 2016 WT, "Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives. By obeying the instructions found in the Bible, we promote cleanness, peace, and unity in the congregation. Each one of us does well to ask himself, ‘Am I loyal to the channel that Jesus is using today?'" I don't see how much clearer the GB could make it that they are the sole composite spokesperson for God, and they should not be questioned on their direction.

Jumping back to the ARC, it seems apparent to me that Br. Jackson wanted to minimize the GB's controlling ways as much as possible. I've said already that they play two sides of the coin very well: a channel that deserves unquestioned obedience and a human group that errs. When it suits them, like this situation in Australia, they can appear weak to benefit the case. But it's not accurate to the way things are. And you can't have it both ways.

[Noble Berean]

23 hours ago, Anna said:

So the brother was relying on HIS knowledge of the scriptures (as presented by the GB) and did not get involved in the "hysteria" of that time. Maybe he was already pioneering at the time, but he definitely did not start spending his money as if he was never going to need it again. It even seems that he kind of went "against the grain" of what others may have been telling him to do, I am not sure, I would have to look at that video again....

The GB never bring up things unless there is a specific reason for it. So no doubt there is a lesson for us in that video that they want us to recognize .

I have to imagine that 1975 video was created with the intent to minimize the GB's role in promoting a failed end date. Which is definitely the worst blunder our organization has ever made. In the video, it is never the GB that promote the date but the average-Joe JWs. So, the blame is on them, not those taking the lead. That's just not honest history--more like revisionist history. And since many adult JWs did not experience 1975, they take the organization at their word. Now, they'll put the blame on those few "loonies" who went too far rather than the org which promoted the date in its literature heavily.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

The Bible needs to be studied at a personal level.
If in the study of the Bible I come to understand that some teachings are wrong, I must act according to conscience.
I have dedicated myself to Jehovah and not to GB.
The Bible is not "imperfect spiritual food", it does not lend itself to rewards, corrections or "new light".
The Bible is the truth.
Obviously, I can go wrong in good faith during my Bible study. However, the Bible encourages you to study personally and ask Jehovah for help.
If the GB says something that according to my Biblical knowledge is not in harmony with the Scriptures, I will listen to my conscience. If we believe that the "truth" is the Word of God (John 17:17) then we realize that sometimes this organization has adhered more to the truth while "at other times" has less adhered to the truth. This is the organization that has taught me many beautiful, true and just things.

This organization, in its time, was surely blessed by God.

It does not mean, however, that "this organization" can not become a "chopper machine" since brothers (in the majority) are not able to do a personal study, to challenge, to question any "truth" not to be labeled as apostates.

For this reason, it will be necessary to create a distinction between those who really love the Word of God (study and seek to understand it) and those who love tranquility (who does the research in our place and tells us what to believe and do not believe).

Israel was also God's people, but to understand the will of God, "read the law book day and night."
Not simply ask the priests or the High Priest.
The priests could deflect (and are often misguided) but the Word of God remains unchanged.

We have many Biblical teachings and examples.
Many of us have become "unconscious worshipers".
Worshipers of people, "circular", the personality, the overseer; Watch Tower, Videos, and Cartoons.

Jehovah considers us personally responsible.
Pay close attention to the prophecies.

 

[Anna]

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I have to imagine that 1975 video was created with the intent to minimize the GB's role in promoting a failed end date. Which is definitely the worst blunder our organization has ever made. In the video, it is never the GB that promote the date but the average-Joe JWs. So, the blame is on them, not those taking the lead. That's just not honest history--more like revisionist history. And since many adult JWs did not experience 1975, they take the organization at their word. Now, they'll put the blame on those few "loonies" who went too far rather than the org which promoted the date in its literature heavily.

I don't think it's quite fair to say it this way. I feel if the GB were trying to minimize their role in a failed date they would have not brought it up again, especially not when you say "many adult JWs did not experience 1975". Why not just bury the old dog. Most of those who are bothered by 1975, are already familiar with the quotes where WT admits blame. These quotes are not hidden. It would make no sense to bring it up again just to minimize the GB's role in promoting it. It would be very silly to do this considering, as you say, "the org promoted the date in its literature heavily". Anyone can go back and check this if they want.

In view of all that, it seems to me the intent was to make individuals aware that in the end they have to rely on what they know from the scriptures. This was confirmed by what Br. Jackson said. Also, on another thread, it was established that not only is "truth the truth no matter who says it", but rubbish (garbage) is rubbish no matter who says it also.

[Noble Berean]

22 minutes ago, Anna said:

I feel if the GB were trying to minimize their role in a failed date they would have not brought it up again, especially not when you say "many adult JWs did not experience 1975". Why not just bury the old dog.

In the Internet age, nothing can be buried. The whole convention was combating disillusionment. I think the org knows that, and they're worried about people viewing anti-JW websites and blogs. They come up on the first page of Google. By addressing controversial matters directly, they have full control over how the story is framed, and the story presented will satisfy most JWs. Then, they're less likely to consider other sources on the matter, or they may discredit other accounts as apostate exaggerations. I have family that lived through 1975, and the convention video bothered them a bit. Not faith-shaking, but an annoyance. They knew people who sold off property and made major life adjustments. They did so earnestly and in good faith that the organization was telling the the truth. They were essentially painted in a negative way in the video--as overly extreme. But that kind of faith in the organization persists till today. What's changed since then? Are people freer to question what they hear from the org?

32 minutes ago, Anna said:

Anyone can go back and check this if they want.

On the WOL? Are you referencing the exact quotes supporting 1975 preppers or the admission of guilt?

1 hour ago, Anna said:

In view of all that, it seems to me the intent was to make individuals aware that in the end they have to rely on what they know from the scriptures. This was confirmed by what Br. Jackson said. Also, on another thread, it was established that not only is "truth the truth no matter who says it", but rubbish (garbage) is rubbish no matter who says it also.

The message of trusting the Bible over men is a good one, but why not go all in? Why not admit the source of the 1975 frenzy? It wasn't just some loony JWs...it was the organization that promoted the idea in their literature. It didn't come from nowhere. It cheapens the message to show only a half-truth.

[Anna]

45 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

I have family that lived through 1975, and the convention video bothered them a bit. Not faith-shaking, but an annoyance. They knew people who sold off property and made major life adjustments. They did so earnestly and in good faith that the organization was telling the the truth. They were essentially painted in a negative way in the video--as overly extreme.

That is precisely why I do not think they would have published the video for the reasons you brought out, as some kind of damage control. Especially since it was supposed to be a convention "combating disillusionment" as you say. That would have been rather counterproductive as per your example of your family, don't you think?

[Evacuated]

20 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

They knew people who sold off property and made major life adjustments.

Yes. Unfortunately, there's all sorts of fish got washed up on that beach.

I was there, but some sound thinking advice earlier meant that I didn't connive with 'seventy -five. However, there were some who actually borrowed money on the strength of it!! They were a bit miffed as well.

[Anna]

43 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

On the WOL? Are you referencing the exact quotes supporting 1975 preppers or the admission of guilt?

Both. 

Yes, WOL "changes in doctrine" and also Watchtower library CD,  by typing in 1975, or other key words.

43 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

The message of trusting the Bible over men is a good one, but why not go all in? Why not admit the source of the 1975 frenzy? It wasn't just some loony JWs...it was the organization that promoted the idea in their literature. It didn't come from nowhere. It cheapens the message to show only a half-truth.

I think you are misunderstanding. Part of the misunderstanding is because opposers paint it that way.