Can anyone explain this to me?: The rest of the dead did not come to life UNTIL the 1,000 years were ENDED.

[Shiwiii]

23 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So which is it? Alliance with the Bible on who is still here after Armageddon or the wt and its publications? 

No one here can explain their position I guess. Then again, I guess no one here would need to since the publications already state the position jws are suppose to accept. 

 

So then this lead me to another question.......

 

The wt says that they (jws) are going to be the only ones left after Armageddon,  whom are they going to fight in the end after the 1000 year reign? Other jws? I guess so, since they are the only ones left..........how does that fit with the whole "we don't go to war" thing? oops, "Houston we have a problem"

[JOHN BUTLER]

10 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

No one here can explain their position I guess. Then again, I guess no one here would need to since the publications already state the position jws are suppose to accept. 

 

So then this lead me to another question.......

 

The wt says that they (jws) are going to be the only ones left after Armageddon,  whom are they going to fight in the end after the 1000 year reign? Other jws? I guess so, since they are the only ones left..........how does that fit with the whole "we don't go to war" thing? oops, "Houston we have a problem"

I don't know about anyone fighting anyone else BUT, there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the UNrighteous. 

The righteous are the ones that served God before they died. The unrighteous are the ones that didn't serve God before they died.

So, the unrighteous will be given the chance to learn about God, hence millions of 'Bible studies' in the resurrection. Then they will be judged near the end of the 1,000 years. But it seems many will chose to be in opposition to God at that time. 

That all seems to make sense in a practical way. If it's true or not only time will tell. 

Now as for your first sentence. "The wt says that they (jws) are going to be the only ones left after Armageddon", well I don't believe they have the right to say that, if they did actually say it. 

I can see some sort of reasoning such as, 'only one ARK' 'only those in the ARK survived'. 'Only Noah and his family did just as God commanded'. That bit makes sense.

But i think it gets far more complicated than that.  (will write more later). 

 

 

[Shiwiii]

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I don't know about anyone fighting anyone else BUT, there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the UNrighteous. 

The righteous are the ones that served God before they died. The unrighteous are the ones that didn't serve God before they died.

So, the unrighteous will be given the chance to learn about God, hence millions of 'Bible studies' in the resurrection. Then they will be judged near the end of the 1,000 years. But it seems many will chose to be in opposition to God at that time. 

That all seems to make sense in a practical way. If it's true or not only time will tell. 

Now as for your first sentence. "The wt says that they (jws) are going to be the only ones left after Armageddon", well I don't believe they have the right to say that, if they did actually say it. 

I can see some sort of reasoning such as, 'only one ARK' 'only those in the ARK survived'. 'Only Noah and his family did just as God commanded'. That bit makes sense.

But i think it gets far more complicated than that.  (will write more later). 

 

 

sure, but jws don't go to war. They don't fight. But in Revelation 20 it says they will. AND if they truly believe that they are the only ones left, then they MUST be fighting each other. In other words, their beliefs do not add up. Its the same as most places and beliefs that they interpret, they try and play both sides of the coin. 

Think about the latest video of all the folks in the field and their "Jesus" comes to save them with his bow and arrow from those chasing them. Well in the scenario presented where they are the only ones left, well those who are chasing them are also jws. It just doesn't makes sense.  

[Witness]

On 12/21/2017 at 12:57 PM, DeeDee said:

Can anyone explain this to me?: Rev. 20:5 -- “(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)…”?

“Dear friends, don’t let this one thing escape you: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day”. 2 Pet 3:8

All confusion is based on the erroneous teaching of when the symbolic Thousand Year reign of Christ takes place.  From the day he took his throne alongside God, he has been ruling.

This is the declaration of the Lord
to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
² The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion.
Rule over your surroundingenemies.  Ps 110:1,2

“Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. ²⁵ For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet.”  1 Cor 15:24,25

“He is now waiting until his enemies are made his footstool.”  Heb 10:13

Since the first century, each anointed under Christ must personally defeat the enemy, Satan.  Those proven faithful, sacrifice their life for Truth, in imitation of their Master.  John 12:24,25; Rom 6:5; Rev 6:9-11  Satan has demanded to sift each one as “wheat” to prove each one’s faithfulness to God.   Rev 2:10; Luke 22:31

Rev 20:4 – “Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”

( Luke 15:24,32; Rom 6:11; Eph 2:1-6; Rev 5:9,10; [Rev 3:1])

Rev 20:4 is speaking of those anointed since Christ who successfully defeated whatever Satan threw at them during their physical lifetime.  But, during the last days, Satan crafts a new plan to take down the remaining anointed, the last of the “woman’s seed”.  Rev 12:17

The abyss/Hades is darkness, a place of “not perceiving”.  When Satan was “chained” and thrown into the abyss by Christ, he had no ability to fabricate his last scheme to come against the remnant.  He was “restrained” for the symbolic “thousand years”. Rev 20:3  When let loose from this restraint, he then instigated his “Beasts” of Revelation that CONQUER the “saints”/”holy ones”.  THEY receive the “mark of the Beast on their foreheads or their hands.” 

“He (Beast/false prophet)  causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, ¹⁷ and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Rev 13:16,17

Buy or sell what?  Spiritual provisions or “wormwood”, issued from the mouth of false prophet/beast, and “sold” under the name of the Beast. Rev 8:10,11  The price?  One’s dedication and “worship” to this powerful, most amazing Beast of Rev 13:1,3,4

So, the “beast and its image” of Rev 20:4 doesn’t make an appearance until after the thousand year reign of Christ is completed, and who’s existence culminates during the Great Tribulation. Jesus pointed out how difficult the time period would be for God’s “elect”. 

“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. ²² And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.²³ “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. ²⁴ For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. ²⁵ See, I have told you beforehand.”  Matt 24:21-25

“The beast was given a mouth to utter boasts and blasphemies. It was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. ⁶ It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven. ⁷ And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. ⁸ All those who live on the earth will worship it, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the bookof life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.”

The “dwelling” of God is His Temple - the anointed ones – 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

 The Beast image is directed by a false prophet/Harlot who “breathes” life into the image. (footnote in NKJV says, “or spirit or life” which equates to a “spirit-directed” image) God’s people succumb to the delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12   Watchtower calls these Beasts, Christendom and the United Nations, but the UN has not “conquered” the “dwelling” of God.  Every one of the anointed, from all tribe, people, language, and nation have not lost their life for their “testimony to Christ”.  They bear the mark of the Beast.  Also, everyone else under the Beast, from all tribe, people, language and nation are under the “authority” of the Beast.  They must obey, or be “killed”.

Those who resist the Beast and its false prophet, although decreed as spiritually “dead”, come alive in Christ if they choose to listen and follow, God’s Son.   

“Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. ² But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. ³ I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.” ⁴ These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.  Rev 11:1-4

“When they finish their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war on them, conquer them, and kill them.” Rev 11:7

How does the beast come out of the abyss?  Satan, who has been let loose from the abyss, brings with him, his fabrication to deceive. He uses the false prophet/beast of Rev 13:11 to introduce it.  From that point, the Beast from the (“Gentile”) Sea (Rev 13:1) takes on a life of its own as “spirit-directed”.    Rev 13:1,2; Rev 9:1-6

“But after three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. Great fear fell on those who saw them. ¹² Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” They went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies watched them.”  Rev 11:11,12

These are the anointed who successfully overcome the Beast.  This can happen while still living on the earth.  Heb 12:1; 12:22; Rev 5:9,10

Rev 20:5 – “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.”

All who “worship”/revere the “inspired” Beast, are not written in the Lamb’s Book of life.  Rev 13:8

The book of Revelation exposes the end time assault to come against God’s anointed servants under the “woman covenant”.  Rev 1:1; Gal 4:26; Rev 12:3,4

Gog and Magog give other characteristics of the two Beasts.  They surround the “encampment of the saints”/anointed holy people, who have been deceived by the devil.    Rev 20:9    The "saints" are found "gathered" in the Watchtower.  No other alternate "organization" or leaders have the ability to know who they might be.

“The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:10

There is no escape from the “lake of fire and sulfur” to deceive twice.  This event could not occur after Armageddon, and after a “thousand year” time of peace, since it is the anointed “saints” that Rev 20:9 addresses.  The faithful, sealed anointed will be ruling with Christ in God’s Kingdom after Armageddon, which brings an end to all evil, and of Satan.

Again, 1 Cor  15:24,25 - “Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. ²⁵ For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet.”   

The end time tribulation is all based on deceit – what we spiritually want to perceive. If we “conquer” the deceit, our heart truly desires to know and walk in truth. This is how we gain life.  We must overcome the deception, “wormwood”, slavery to men, all falsehoods, and the fear that men have more say over our spirituality than Christ himself. Dan 8:11

Leaving all of that behind is what Jesus’ faithful disciples had to do in the first century and what is happening to those who are "killed" - disfellowshipped - by the Beast.

“Therefore, everyone who will acknowledge me before others, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. ³³ But whoever denies me before others, I will also deny him before my Father in heaven. ³⁴ Don’t assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ³⁵ For I came to turn

a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
³⁶ and a man’s enemies will be
the members of his household.

³⁷ The one who loves a father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; the one who loves a son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. ³⁸ And whoever doesn’t take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. ³⁹ Anyone who finds his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life because of me will find it.”

The faithful are killed by the Wild Beast because of their testimony about Jesus Christ and his glory – not “Jehovah”, and not “Jehovah’s organization”.  Rev 12:11,17;19:10;20:4  They stand only for him and the Father.  John 4;23,24

How difficult it is for JWs to realize their love for the organization – the Wild Beast -  takes precedence over any love they may have for Christ. 

John 16:13,14; 17:1-5,24

 

 

[Shiwiii]

"... As happened with the ancient city of Jerusalem, Jehovah will use secular forces to do the unthinkable —to attack all false religious organizations on earth... Just as Jerusalem’s destruction was “a unique calamity,” so the “great tribulation” with its war of Armageddon will be an event that “has not occurred” before...

... God’s Word indicates that individual supporters of false religion will survive the coming destruction of religious institutions. Fearful, these survivors will join other individuals of all ranks who will be searching for a hiding place...

... any hiding places into which the survivors of the attack on religion may run will not shield them from Jehovah’s sword. At Armageddon, they will be put to death, together with all other goatlike ones.

... The time left to “make disciples of people of all the nations” is limited. When the attack of “the rod” (the secular forces) against religion begins, we will no longer preach a message of salvation... As far as sharing good news is concerned, we will become “mute,” just as Ezekiel became mute, or stopped proclaiming his messages, during part of his ministry... True, after the destruction of false religion, people will, in a sense, desperately “seek a vision from a prophet,” but no lifesaving instructions will be given to them. The time to receive such instruction and to become a disciple of Christ will have passed...

... However, our work as preachers will not cease. Why not? During the great tribulation, we may well begin proclaiming a message of judgment that will be like a plague of hail. That message will clearly signal that the end of the wicked world is upon mankind... "

The above is from the pure worship book. 

This makes it pretty clear that the wt/gb says that only jws will survive. 

 

[Shiwiii]

"To survive the coming destruction, individuals need to prove their faith now. As we saw earlier, those who survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E. demonstrated beforehand their heartfelt rejection of wickedness and their devotion to pure worship. It is similar today. Before the destruction comes, individuals need to be “sighing and groaning”—deeply grieved at heart—over the wickedness of this world. And rather than hide their feelings, they must demonstrate by words and actions their devotion to pure worship. How can they do so? They need to react favorably to the preaching work that is being done today, to continue putting on a Christlike personality, to get baptized in symbol of their dedication to Jehovah, and to support Christ’s brothers loyally. (Ezek. 9:4; Matt. 25:34-40; Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 3:21) Only those who pursue such a course now—and who enter the great tribulation as pure worshippers—will be in a position to be marked for survival."

Also from the same book. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

11 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

"To survive the coming destruction, individuals need to prove their faith now. As we saw earlier, those who survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E. demonstrated beforehand their heartfelt rejection of wickedness and their devotion to pure worship. It is similar today. Before the destruction comes, individuals need to be “sighing and groaning”—deeply grieved at heart—over the wickedness of this world. And rather than hide their feelings, they must demonstrate by words and actions their devotion to pure worship. How can they do so? They need to react favorably to the preaching work that is being done today, to continue putting on a Christlike personality, to get baptized in symbol of their dedication to Jehovah, and to support Christ’s brothers loyally. (Ezek. 9:4; Matt. 25:34-40; Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 3:21) Only those who pursue such a course now—and who enter the great tribulation as pure worshippers—will be in a position to be marked for survival."

Also from the same book. 

".... they must demonstrate by words and actions their devotion to pure worship ".

So the question to ask is, Where is this pure worship ? 

It certainly is not within the JW Org governed by the Governing Body. The GB have proved themselves false in so many ways.  

[Shiwiii]

25 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

".... they must demonstrate by words and actions their devotion to pure worship ".

So the question to ask is, Where is this pure worship ? 

It certainly is not within the JW Org governed by the Governing Body. The GB have proved themselves false in so many ways.  

Well according to the article: "...and to support Christ’s brothers loyally."  That's where.....

 

[Melinda Mills]

Remember United in Worship... book, can't remember one with Pure Worship. Could you write out the full name of the book.

[Shiwiii]

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Remember United in Worship... book, can't remember one with Pure Worship. Could you write out the full name of the book.

Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored at Last! is the title of this book

 

 

[Melinda Mills]

Don't know that one, unless it is one of the revised ones I did not see.

 

[Shiwiii]

2 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

Don't know that one, unless it is one of the revised ones I did not see.

 

 I believe it is new.

it's on the website