Which nations disappear in Armageddon?

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

Chapters 19 and 20 of Revelation will unveil some significant details about the war of Armageddon and what will happen next.

These details will include two major changes to the current understanding and, just as happened with the identity of Babylon the Great, this "change of vision" will be a real stumbling block for many Jehovah's Witnesses.

These chapters will be examined in the next article but, faced with such a serious change of understanding for two other subjects, it was decided to treat them separately in the light of the whole Scripture.

First of all we must realize that the Revelation speaks of the resurrection at the end of the millennium, and not during the millennium.

This will be dealt with in detail in due course. For the moment ... accept this possibility only to make the theme of this article comprehensible, which must answer the question, in fact, "which nations disappear in Armageddon?".

It is clear that here we return to the usual "problem" if the book was written in chronological order or not but meanwhile we saw that the 7 seals are sequential, the 7 trumpets must be sequential (the apostle Paul calls the seventh trumpet "the last trumpet") and so also the seven cups of the wrath of God.

If all this is sequential ... is it consistent to think that just the last chapters are not?

Let's try to read the whole chapter 20 of Revelation and follow the order of events.

Satan is dissolved from his prison, then misleads the nations that are at the corners of the earth, these surround the field of saints and then are killed by fire coming down from the sky.

After this event, the death and hades return the dead that are in them - Revelation 20: 11-13

The writing of Revelation 20: 4 says that the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.

"Until" means "up to the moment" and not "during" and this would mean that in these thousand years the elect would rule on the survivors of Armageddon and their families, but not the resurrected ones.

The same term, "until", used in Matthew 1:25, we have always used it to show that Joseph did not have relations with his wife Marie until the birth of the child.

This should be sufficient to show that the resurrection will take place after the end of the millennium, a concept that seems to be reaffirmed in verses 12 and 13.

We will go deeper into these verses but now let's focus on these "rebels" who attack the people of God.

Who are they and where did they come from?

Revelations 20:7-10 says... "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 Â and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma?gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9  And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them.+ 10  And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast+ and the false prophet already were;+ and they will be tormented* day and night forever and ever".

At the end of a thousand years, Satan is dissolved to "mislead those nations that are in the four corners of the earth" and gathers them to war.

It seems really incredible that something like that happens!

Is it possible that in the new world people still organize themselves in political nations, that create divisions and that even attack the part of that people remained faithful?

This is the first hypothesis and roughly represents the current intention.

Before thinking that it is nonsense ... is it possible to hypothesize that during the Armageddon war a part of the earth is spared also to allow the survival of the people of God?

In several parts of the Bible it is said that during the time of judgment his faithful people escapes finding shelter to Edom, Moab and Ammon (which by the way are also the cities spared from the world war) - Compare for example Daniel 11:41 with Isaiah 16: 4; Psalm 108: 8-10 with Jeremiah 40: 10, 11

These three nations (Edom, Moab and Ammon) were mountainous / hilly and this recalls the words Jesus spoke to his disciples - Matthew 24: 15, 16

Does Scripture warn all Christians in the world to flee to the nearest mountains as soon as they see the disgusting thing about Israel?

Indeed, if the destruction of Babylon the Great gave rise to Armageddon (as we have seen) and not to the great tribulation, "fleeing the mountains" would mean that Jehovah would save these mountains by force of things.

In fact these "mountains" could be a specific locality of the earth where Jehovah will lead his people just before Armageddon.

This or these locations would then be "preserved by judgment".

It would not be the first time that Jehovah, in his love and mercy, avoids destroying a certain people because of his servants.

According to the account of Genesis 19:21, 22, the angels of Jehovah avoid destroying Zoar for consideration of Lot, and yet, from what is understood by reading the whole story, that "little city" was part of Sodom or Gomorrah and therefore had to be destroyed.

The war of Armageddon actually destroys the satanic system composed of the wild beast, the false prophet and his supporters. All those nations that are compact in fighting against the Lamb also fall.

The vast majority of people die in this war because blinded and branded by the wild beast but will die all those who are not Christians?

The Philadelphia congregation is told that "it would be preserved by the test that must come on the entire inhabited earth" and that this can be done at least hypothesizes that some Christians find shelter in a "free zone" - Revelation 3:10

If we can hypothesize this, then the nations that at the end of the millennium decide to attack the people of God, could be born from these surviving strains. Why, in fact, would you make a distinction between them and "the field of saints"?

Are not all the inhabitants of the new world "saints"?

In the new world will there be a "field of saints" and a "field of non-saints"?

Another confirmation could come from the very protection of Jerusalem above; it is said to "fly in the desert" far from the face of the serpent.

When Satan tries to make her drown "the earth comes to her aid" and this means that at least until the last moment of divine judgment there is still a "stable" part of the world - Revelation 12:15

This could also explain why the resurrection does not take place during this millennium; simply because you are not yet in that new world that we imagine even if it will already be a new world and you will already have many reasons to be happy.

We should probably make a distinction between "millennial reign" (which will bring many blessings to faithful humanity) and "new world" that will begin after the resurrection, at the moment when Christ returns the kingdom to his God and Father.

This period could simply be a period of transition during which human beings can live in peace without the influence of Satan and under the guidance of divine teaching for all those who wish to obey.

In fact, one of the questions Satan raised in the Garden of Eden was precisely if man was able to govern himself but man, with the interference of Satan, he never really ruled alone.

 

 

 

Can man direct his steps without God and without Satan? Also to this we must answer

 

This is related to the words of Revelation 20: 3; Satan is bound "not so misleads the nations" and that it is necessary to give definitively answer to the issue raised in Eden.

However, if all the nations were destroyed at Armageddon ... how could he mislead them?

Would it make sense to say that Satan is bound to keep the nations that no longer exist?

Possible nations in the four corners of the earth, born of this spared stock, could show if man is really able to govern himself in favorable conditions, that is without the influence of Satan.

After this last human rebellion, which will have consciously shown that they prefer Satan's government to that of Jehovah, both Satan and disobedient humanity will be eliminated forever.

Only after the resurrection of the dead and after their judgment "death and Ades will be thrown into the lake of fire" and therefore we should assume that, throughout the millennium, despite having favorable conditions, we will continue to age and die?

It is unthinkable because the anointed rulers will fulfill their priestly functions by expiating the sin of humanity and thus preventing the death of their subjects.

Death that, however, will always be lurking and not yet permanently eliminated until the end of the millennium.

It will be "the last enemy" to be eliminated in fact, if at the end of the millennium there will still be "enemies to be eliminated" (the nations surrounding the holy field), this should demonstrate that the resurrection, and therefore the definitive elimination of death, it will happen only after that event - I Corinthians 15:26

In this regard the writing of I Corinthians 15:24, 25, if read carefully, seems to specify the order of events, that is, Jesus Christ will deliver the Kingdom to his God and Father when he has reduced to nothing "every government and every authority and power".

Obviously if every government and every authority and power were reduced to nothing during the war of Armageddon, He (Jesus Christ) should deliver the government at that very moment, that is, when he had just taken power.

Let's reread these last six lines and try to understand their meaning even if "this meaning" goes out blatantly against our most deeply rooted convictions.

Verse 25 says ... "For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet".

This would seem to mean that there will still be enemies during the millennial reign.

So the Kingdom ruled by Christ will be a temporary provision to Jehovah's praise to bring humanity back to perfection and this can also include the destruction of the last governments, authorities and powers, which will ultimately refuse to submit - Revelation 20: 8

 

 

Who will truly surround the "field of saints"?

 

 

In Ezekiel chapter 38 the verses from 8 on wards it is said that attention will be paid to Gog of Magog after "many days" and therefore suggests that these had been left out that is not taken into account or spared during of judgment.

Does not it seem a contradiction that Gog of Magog exists at the end of the satanic system of things and exists again in the new world at the end of the millennium?

Does it not reflect that this "coalition of nations" always has the same name and indeed, in the description of Ezekiel, does not the subject change at all?

If Gog of Magog is a coalition of nations, does not it seem strange that nations are formed under the reign of Christ?

It is a contradiction only if we take for granted that all governments and all people are really destroyed in Armageddon.

Evidently Gog of Magog does not exist again but it still exists (ie it has never ceased to exist).

If "pay attention to him" after many days it means that they are always theirs and the "many days" are all the years of the millennial reign.

Gog of Magog always has the same name because it is always the same subject.

The people who "accumulate wealth and property" are obviously the people of God (the "field of saints" according to Revelation) and this indicates the many blessings that God's people will have during the millennial reign and the contrast with other peoples (why specify that there is a people that accumulates wealth if all accumulate the same riches?).

Blessings that, apparently, will not have Gog of Magog otherwise there would be no such contrast and there would be no reason to feel envy - Ezekiel 38:12; compare Proverbs 10:22

Why, moreover, would there be this contrast with those who "do not even bar and doors" if we are all in a new world of peace, without thieves or other criminals? - Ezekiel 38:11

If read simply for what it is, the scripture really seems to indicate that, during the millennial reign of Christ, there still exist peoples who have bars and doors and are evidently those who have never been interested in the will of God for whom they must put " bars and doors" and pay attention to their own brothers.

The events related to Gog Magog, described in chapters 38 and 39 of Ezekiel, are full of interesting details but one of the things that stands out right now is the distinction between them and Israel.

It therefore seems that Israel, or the holy people of God, will live together with these other peoples for a thousand years - Ezekiel 39: 6, 7

At this point the writing of Isaiah 2: 2-4 acquires a particular meaning.

So far we have applied this writing to people who, by accepting the truth today, change their behavior and "make their swords into plowshares" by becoming peaceful people.

We have also applied it to the instruction that will be given to the resurrected in the New World, but let us now try to reread it by accepting the possibility of what we have just described.

Isaiah 2: 2-4: "In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,+And it will be raised up above the hills,And to it all the nations will stream.+  3  And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,To the house of the God of Jacob.+ He will instruct us about his ways,And we will walk in his paths.”+ For law* will go out of Zion,And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.+  4  He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight* respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears.+ Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore".

 

The mountain of Jehovah's house will be firmly established and raised. When?

Evidently when the Satan system is eliminated, it will be clear that Jehovah's way of governing is the best ever.

"All nations must flow to it", in what sense and which nations?

Many nations have indeed flowed into the people of God, for whom it is recognized that fulfillment could have something to do with our days; nevertheless, it is possible that, at the end of Armageddon, people of the nations survived by the judgment of God (the peoples at the four corners of the earth) decide to flow to the mountain of Jehovah.

After the incredible events of Armageddon, it should by now be clear who the True God is and what His people are.

In this way, too, Jehovah is sanctified in the midst of the nations.

Many people flow and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will certainly walk in his paths" so it's describes as their own initiative and not as someone who has been persuaded through the preaching of the good news. Indeed, they themselves are saying "he will instruct us around his ways".

We can imagine that many survivors will flow to the mountain of Jehovah once they have seen the great signs of Armageddon, abandoning their old nation and making the necessary changes to be accepted by God - Compare Revelation 11:13 and Joshua 9: 8-11

Yet it is easy enough to imagine that, despite these unequivocal signs of Jehovah's blessing on His people, not everyone will decide to be part of it.

So many people will continue to stay in their nations, with their governments, refusing to rush to Jehovah's mountain.

Seen from this perspective, it is no longer so incredible to imagine that, at the end of the millennium, when God's people have accumulated riches and blessings to no end, these nations organize themselves to "take many spoils" - Ezekiel 38: 10-12

Even the writing of Daniel 2:44 should make us reflect.

The writing says: "“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom+ that will never be destroyed.+ And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people.+ It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms,+ and it alone will stand forever".

What realms is Daniel talking about?

If we read the preceding verses we understand that we are talking about the kingdoms that make up the image of a man with a golden head, chest and arms of silver, belly and thighs of copper, legs of iron and feet of iron and clay .

We know very well that these kingdoms are respectively Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome and, according to current understanding, the Anglo-American empire (but, as we saw in a previous article, the last dominant king must be the king of the north).

The same powers, also in the book of Daniel, are described as the lion with the wings of an eagle (or Babylon described in Daniel 7: 4), the ravenous bear with three ribs between the teeth (Media- Persia described in Daniel 7: 5), the leopard with four heads and four wings (the Macedonian or Greek empire described in Daniel 7: 6) and the frightful and terrible beast with the iron teeth and the ten horns (Rome and therefore the last power described in Daniel 7: 7, 8, 19).

Why are the same realms or domains seen in two different ways?

This is interesting because the beast that John sees "ascending from the sea" has characteristics of all these beasts - Revelation 13: 1, 2

It is in fact similar to a leopard, has the feet of a bear, the mouth of the lion and the ten horns of the last beast seen by Daniel.

These are the kings that are destroyed by Jesus Christ and his elect at Armageddon, that is, the kingdoms that will coalesce in the final battle.

Obviously it includes his image (the UN) and the false prophet - Revelation 19:19, 20

It includes all those who participated in the war, directly or indirectly, and all those who have persecuted or unjustly treated God's people - Revelation 19:21; Zechariah 2: 8

Surely a good part of humanity will be killed in this war because the ruler of the world will make sure to have as many people as possible, but will this mean that all kingdoms and all people will be destroyed except for Christians?

Even those insignificant, small realms?

Even those isolated from the rest of the world, like islands or small ethnic groups, including those people who, living in countries that are restrictive of religion or other religions, have never had the opportunity to know the marvelous truths of God's word? - See Ezekiel 39: 6

These are questions to think about.

It is true that the "good news" was preached in all the inhabited earth before the end of the satanic system ... but did this really understand all the people and everyone really had the same opportunities?

Beyond any human hypothesis, the words that should make us reflect more are those reported in Daniel 7:11, 12.

The writing says ... "I kept watching at that time because of the sound of the arrogant* words that the horn was speaking;+ I watched until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given over to be burned in the fire. 12  But as for the rest of the beasts,+ their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season".

What does this mean and how long does it last "a time and a season"?

Meanwhile, from the context we see that the horn that speaks great things is referred to the "terrible and terrible beast" that is the last beast of Daniel's vision.

There is talk of the period in which "thrones are placed" and "the Ancient of days" sits to judge and therefore can only refer to the time when Jehovah and Christ take power - Revelation 11: 15-18

It is said that the beast is killed and his body is given to the burning fire - Compare Revelation 19:19, 20

It is evident that the scripture is referring to the wild beast of Revelation at the time of its judgment and yet, after specifying that the beast is given to the burning fire (therefore it has been destroyed), verse 12 says ... "But as for the rest of the beasts,+ their rulerships were taken away, and their lives were prolonged for a time and a season".

This specifies very clearly that the other domains are not destroyed but allows them to continue to exist for some time after the judgment of Armageddon.

We try to stop for a moment and reread the last four lines carefully comparing the cited writings.

In fact, if we read Revelation 19: 19-21 carefully, we see that the wild beast, the kings of the earth and their armies gather to make war against Jesus Christ and his army, but who is destroyed among all these?

The writing says that the wild beast and the false prophet is taken and thrown into the lake of fire.

Then, verse 21 says "the rest were killed with the long sword of him who sat on the horse, which [sword] came out of his mouth."

The remaining whom?

There are two subjects involved: the kings of the earth and their armies.

By saying "the rest" does the vision refer to kings, their armies or both?

If he also referred to both of Daniel's writing, he specifies that the domains of these kings are simply removed, not destroyed.

Surely die those who are in that position (armies, any generals or kings) in fact the writing says that "they are killed" but they are not said to end up in the lake of fire.

We know that the lake of fire means the second death and that is a place from which we do not return so we have the assurance that the wild beast is destroyed so as not to return again but the "remaining" are not uprooted from the earth. Not yet.

Those who are waging war against the Lamb are killed, but evidently there will remain something of their kingdoms, that is, the nations belonging to these "remaining" who have been granted an extension for a time and a season.

These will have a thousand years to recover and at least a part of them, quite numerous according to the words of Revelation 20: 8, will attack the people of God at the end of the millennium.

Gog of Magog existed before Armageddon and will exist even later.

Finally, as we have seen, after the destruction of these enemies there is still "one last enemy" to be eliminated: the death - See 1 Corinthians 15:26

This confirms the sequence of events of Revelation.

 

 

 

[DeeDee]

I also did not understand Rev. 20:5, so I posted the question: Can anyone explain this to me?: The rest of the dead did not come to life UNTIL the 1,000 years were ENDED.

I received a reply explaining that Scripture. By "come to life" it is talking about the "REAL" life, after the final test at the end of the 1,000 years: Hello, DeeDee, think about what this verse is speaking about. It is not as hard as one think. Who partake of the 'first' resurrection? Those of the heavenly hope, and when they are given life, they are immortal, death has no hold there is no last test for them, correct? But those brought back to life during the reign of Christ, what happens when Satan is let loosed upon the earth? We all must past this final test, because if any fail they will end up where? So after this test death will be no more, all who pass has nothing but life in front of them, no testing of where their sovereignty lies, they have proved it. So the writer could put this what he saw in the future in those very words. Everyone else, the dead, would not come to life without death, until the 1000 yrs had ended.

[TrueTomHarley]

11 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

I received a reply explaining that Scripture. By "come to life" it is talking about the "REAL" life,

Well, it certainly is shorter than the answer that precedes it.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

Everyone can say what he wants. However, the order of events is well described in Revelation.
At the end of Armageddon Satan is bound and thrown into the abyss - Revelation 20: 1-3
The first resurrection is completed - Revelation 20: 4-6
At the end of a thousand years, Satan is dissolved to divert the nations to the four corners of the earth and finally thrown into the lake of fire - Revelation 20: 7-10
Then the resurrection of the dead takes place - Revelation 20: 11-15

It is not difficult to understand the order of events if we read the text without preconceptions.
There is no mention of "real life" or "fake life".
the resurrection takes place at the end of the millennium.

Obviously someone will say that Revelation "is not written in chronological order" but this is not logical.
In Revelation one speaks of the seven seals of the scroll that the Lamb opens.
The seals are in chronological order.
So we talk about the seven trumpets and also these are in chronological order
The "governing body" says that they are not in chronological order

In fact, the seventh trumpet would be played in 1914 while the sixth in 1922 or so (now I do not remember precisely).
Meanwhile, the meaning of sixth and seventh is not logical.
"Sixth" does not only indicate the number of the trumpet but also that it sounds after the fifth and before the seventh.
I have compared other translations and all give the same meaning.
Moreover, it is a scriptural problem because the apostle Paul, speaking precisely of this trumpet (that is, the one concerning the resurrection of the dead) he defines it "the last trumpet" - 1 Corinthians 15:52 (compare with Revelation 11: 15; 12: 1).

So if the seventh trumpet played in 1914, and it is the last one, this means that the other trumpets must have played previously.

Instead, if we simply read what is written, the trumpets are sequential (regardless of the start date you want to give) and eventually the "cups of the wrath of God" are sequential.
So the question is: if the seals, the trumpets and the cups are sequential (and we come up to chapter 16 of Revelation) with what logic can we say that the rest of the book is not in chronological order?
Thus, if we read the order of the events of Revelation of chapter 19, we understand exactly that "the rest of the dead did not come to life until (ie: until the moment in which") the thousand years are finished ".

Now start with the controversy as well.
For me, the Bible, it is the only authority.

 

[DeeDee]

¹⁴ But a physical  ["logical?"] man

does not accept the things of the spirit of God,

for they are foolishness to him;

and he cannot get to know them,

because they are examined spiritually.

 

¹⁵ However, the spiritual man examines all things,

but he himself is not examined by any man.

 

¹⁶ For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah,

so that he may instruct him?”

But we do have the mind of Christ.

 

– 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

6 hours ago, DeeDee said:

¹⁴ But a physical  ["logical?"] man

does not accept the things of the spirit of God,

for they are foolishness to him;

and he cannot get to know them,

because they are examined spiritually.

 

¹⁵ However, the spiritual man examines all things,

but he himself is not examined by any man.

 

¹⁶ For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah,

so that he may instruct him?”

But we do have the mind of Christ.

 

– 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

Dear DeeDee, for God the physical man is foolish but the whole Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach, to resume and to correct - 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
The physical man is he who follows the desires of the flesh; not the one who uses his mental faculties - 1 Corinthians 14:20
It is not you who determines if I am "carnal" or "spiritual".
Whoever judges me is Jehovah.
Meanwhile, try to refute the arguments with the scriptures (without forcing them)

[DeeDee]

 

14 hours ago, DeeDee said:

¹⁴ But a physical  ["logical?"] man

Dear Israeli Bar Avaddhon,

You are right about who judges, so you can rest assured that I was not speaking in judgment of you. You are obviously deeply using the magnificent gift that Jehovah has given us (the brain). It is one of my favorite gifts to use, as well. My only points were these:

• Jehovah’s thoughts and reasonings may not seem “logical” to any human, not specifically to you, yourself.

• You are trying to fit Jehovah’s thoughts into some “logical” timeframe.

• Jehovah has placed the knowledge of “the times…in his own jurisdiction,” so it is not for us “to know the times.”

 

Isa. 55:8, 9

 ⁸ “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.

 ⁹ “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

So my ways are higher than your ways

And my thoughts [are higher] than your thoughts.

 

Acts 6, 7

⁶ So when they had assembled, they asked him:

“Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”

⁷ He said to them:

“It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons

that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.

 

As you will see from the Scriptures below, there will be no “try[ing] to refute the arguments.”

 

Prov. 20:3

It is honorable for a man to refrain from a dispute…

 

Eccl. 6:11

The more words, the more futility;

and what advantage do they bring to man?

[DeeDee]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 3:48 AM, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Obviously someone will say that Revelation "is not written in chronological order" but this is not logical.

P.S. Maybe "this is not logical" to man...But no one can know "what is logical" to Jehovah.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

using the magnificent gift that Jehovah has given us (the brain)

Jehovah has placed the knowledge of "times ... in his own jurisdiction", so it is not for us "to know the times."

My article has not talked about times. Only of scriptural logic.
Daniel had to study the Scriptures profoundly to understand how many years they would be prisoners of Babylon - Daniel 9: 2
Daniel did not know that "God has set the times in his authority"?

 

Isa. 55:8, 9

 ⁸ “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.

 ⁹ “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

So my ways are higher than your ways

And my thoughts [are higher] than your thoughts.

 

I totally agree. Obviously, Jehovah, in his profound wisdom, made His Word written for us (small and limited) so that we could study it and take care of it - Acts 17:11

Acts 6, 7

⁶ So when they had assembled, they asked him:

“Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”

⁷ He said to them:

“It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons

that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.

Did my article talk about times and seasons? spoke of Armageddon's date, perhaps?

 

Prov. 20:3

It is honorable for a man to refrain from a dispute…

 

Am I doing some quarrel or am I trying to show what the scriptures say? - 2 Corinthians 10: 4
Perhaps, for you, "making a dispute" means re-discussing your beliefs? - Romans 12: 2
 

Eccl. 6:11

The more words, the more futility;

and what advantage do they bring to man?

 

Do the words of Ecclesiastes apply to speaking of God and the Word of God? So we should not talk about God? - Matthew 22:37, 38
Love for God urges us to talk about Him and His Word and this does not mean "making disputes".
If we have a belief that goes against the Scriptures, simply, instead of "making disputes", we must adapt to the Word of God.
My article, which quotes many scriptures, wants to push for reflection.
Obviously it is difficult for those who see disputes everywhere or believe they have understood everything can get back into question - Matthew 11:25, 26

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

17 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

P.S. Maybe "this is not logical" to man...But no one can know "what is logical" to Jehovah.

That Revelation is not written in chronological order, you have established it. Jehovah did not establish it. I understand that it is easy to get confused.

[DeeDee]

I do not understand some things that you are stating in you statement below...

I "have" not "established" whether OR NOT Revelation is "written in chronological order"...that is for Jehovah to know.

And what seems "logical" from Jehovah's point of view could seem completely "illogical" from man's point of view.

What confusion are you speaking about?

33 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

That Revelation is not written in chronological order, you have established it. Jehovah did not establish it. I understand that it is easy to get confused.

 

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

I fully agree that something that may seem "illogical" to humans can be perfectly logical for Jehovah. Jehovah's thoughts are superior to those of man. Furthermore, Jehovah is the Creator and therefore knows everything perfectly.
However, the fact that Revelation "is not written in chronological order" who established it?
Have you read in the Bible "Revelation is not in chronological order"?
Who establishes it?
This has been established by some people in an absolutely arbitrary manner.
Nowhere if Revelation is written "not in chronological order" the most normal thing to do is to read the context carefully.

The seals of the scroll that the Lamb opens are sequential?
Or do you believe that He first opened the fifth (for example) and then the first?

Are the seven cups x of the wrath of God sequential or not?
The trumpets are sequential (exactly like seals and cups) and this is demonstrated not only by logic but also by Scripture.
In fact, the apostle Paul, speaking of the trumpet concerning the resurrection, calls it "the last trumpet" - 1 Corinthians 15:51

Is this true or am I inventing it?
If you go to read, in Revelation, when the last trumpet sounds (Revelation 11:15) you will see that a few verses later, the Kingdom of God is born (Revelation 12: 1-6).

If the seventh trumpet is the "last trumpet", this means that other trumpets (ie trumpets ranging from 1 to 6) was before, is not it?

But the governing body says that the seventh trumpet sounds in 1914 (go to see chapter 26 of the book "Revelation its Grand Climax") while the fifth trumpet plays in 1919 (go to see chapter 22 of the book "Revelation its Grand Climax") while the sixth trumpet from 1922 onwards arrive until the assembly held in Toronto on July 24, 1927 (see chapter 23 of the same book).

Then the fifth trumpet plays in 1919, the sixth trumpet plays in 1922 and the seventh trumpet plays in 1914.
So not only is there no logic (the first four trumpets, in the same way, are in scattered order) but contradicts the words of Paul.
If the seventh trumpet sounds in 1914, then it is not "the last trumpet".

What I want to say is simple.
The book of Revelation may have been written in chronological order or in non-chronological order.
In any case, it is not "four people" who decide whether it is written in chronological order or not but the context.
The context makes us understand, whether we like it or not, that Revelation is written in chronological order.
This has nothing to do with "the thoughts of Jehovah".

Jehovah's thoughts are superior to ours and will always be superior but He has given the Bible to us to study it with care - Proverbs 2: 1-5