Which nations disappear in Armageddon?

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

20 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Per non parlare di quello che possiamo trovare dei riferimenti incrociati di 1 Giovanni 4: 1 da solo, che ammonta fino a 5 versi.

Ma per vedere questo avrebbe dovuto vedere dove ogni parte del 1 Giovanni 4: 1 indirizza il lettore.

English Standard Version

Provate gli spiriti

1 Giovanni 4: 1 legge: Carissimi, non crediate a ogni spirito [ogni dichiarazioni ispirate] (A) , ma provate gli spiriti [dichiarazioni ispirate] per vedere se sono da Dio (B) , per molti falsi profeti sono sorti nel il mondo (C) .

 

[UN]

L'uomo del peccato

2 Tessalonicesi 2: 1,2 - (1) Ora, riguardo alla venuta del Signore nostro Gesù Cristo e alla nostra riunione insieme a lui, noi, fratelli chiediamo, (2) di non essere rapidamente scosso in mente o allarmato, sia da un spirito, o una parola detta, o una lettera che sembrava essere da noi, nel senso che il giorno del Signore è venuto.

Alcuni si allontaneranno dalla fede

1 Timoteo 4: 1 -  Ora lo Spirito dice espressamente che negli ultimi tempi alcuni si allontaneranno dalla fede dedicandosi a spiriti menzogneri e gli insegnamenti di demoni,

 

 

Gesù mi s Com I ng

Revelat i ONS 22: 6 - E SA I D per me, “ Queste parole sono certe e veraci. E il Signore, il Dio della sp i r i ts dei profeti, ha mandato h i s angelo, per mostrare h i servi s cose che devono presto ta k e luogo. ” 

 

[C]

I falsi profeti e maestri

2 Pietro 2: 1 - Ma anche falsi profeti sono sorti tra la gente, così come ci w mi sarò fra voi falsi dottori che w i ll segreto br i ona i n Destruct i VE Heres i es, anche negare i one del master che li ha comprati, br i ng i ng su di sé sw i ft destruct i su. 

 

Che sono tutti armoniosamente collegati ad 1 Giovanni 4: 1. Si tratta di cose come questa che non dovrebbe essere ignorato, determinando in tal modo alcuni altri facilmente ingannevoli e fare o una violazione di ermeneutica evidente in termini di scritture.

Wow, Space Merchant, what a beautiful quote you did!
I mentioned it just for this.
Also I am aware that the verses should be read in their context.
In fact I apply this writing to myself.
What did I write, actually?
I wrote to "wait and see" and this means that my words can come true (and therefore were based on the Bible) or do not come true (and then I would be a false prophet).
I point out to you that even only verse 1 was sufficient because, in fact, term with the part "C" that you have highlighted.

So you should have understood the meaning of the quote as a whole.
Obviously, however, you are a fanatic and do not care to understand the meaning of scriptural quotations but simply "belittle what others write".
And why are you doing this?
Simply because you are interested in showing that a certain religious organization regardless of merits or demerits.
You worship your religion, not God. It is evident.

Do we want to have a minimum of intellectual honesty?
So if we apply these scruitture to everyone, surely the WT has made many false prophecies, denials, treated and retracted.
Oh sorry ... in this case 1 John 4: 1 is no longer valid, is it?

However I try to summarize the meaning of the quote.
Stay in waiting.
You are watching what will happen in a short time.
Greetings

[Space Merchant]

6 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Also I am aware that the verses should be read in their context.
In fact I apply this writing to myself.

Alright then, as long as you respect the cross references, there should not be a problem, some Christians tend not to adhere to cross-references in order to justify something that is in error. Error does not sit well with those who apply Biblical Hermeneutics.

6 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

What did I write, actually?
I wrote to "wait and see" and this means that my words can come true (and therefore were based on the Bible) or do not come true (and then I would be a false prophet).

Actually, I was quoting your previous comment, the one I have quoted in my previous post. There is more to a false prophet than just mere accursed prophecies and or teachings, but okay.

6 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

I point out to you that even only verse 1 was sufficient because, in fact, term with the part "C" that you have highlighted.

So you should have understood the meaning of the quote as a whole.
Obviously, however, you are a fanatic and do not care to understand the meaning of scriptural quotations but simply "belittle what others write".
And why are you doing this?

What of 2 Peter 2:1? This is the only cross-reference of which part C points to. I do understand, and by understanding I tend not to leave anything out. Oh and I know have understanding, I live and breathe scripture, pertaining to the posted I've made in the past, this is but the first time you have seen a comment from me, and I am not here to belittle, if that is what you want, but this is not the case.

I posted the cross-references so any reader can see where 1 John 4:1 points to, nothing more,nothing less, for the bible provides such for a reason, and it is vital because any man, woman or child can easily misinterpret and or mislead others by a single verse when not connecting the dots with any cross-references that said verse is connected to,  for instance, the many laws of the Jews of which Jesus has quoted and or profess of what is written, cross-references leads the reader to see where Jesus is quoting from and what said quote originated from, the laws of the Jews given to them by God.

Also, I would be wise if I were you, to judge and assume someone, underestimating them even, by your comment, hence what you have stated: you are a fanatic and do not care to understand the meaning of scriptural quotations but simply "belittle what others write".

Oh and as I said before, I aided cross-references so that people can see what 1 John 4:1 alludes to.

6 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Simply because you are interested in showing that a certain religious organization regardless of merits or demerits.
You worship your religion, not God. It is evident.

Do we want to have a minimum of intellectual honesty?

I am far more interested in showing biblical truths, nothing more, regardless of religious background.

That is a nice comment here, of which you said: You worship your religion, not God. It is evident.

May I ask, as you sure that this claim of yours is correct? For any comment I have made there is absolute truth as to how this claim of yours is false, a Christian should not make a false claim.

Again, be very wise in your words, for we all know what the bible says about false accusations, you however, have already made 2 against me.

That being said, I care only for honesty, for time and time again, I stated my detest of dishonesty and lairs and manipulators of scriptures and such ones will be confuted, as already the case in the past.

6 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

So if we apply these scruitture to everyone, surely the WT has made many false prophecies, denials, treated and retracted.
Oh sorry ... in this case 1 John 4: 1 is no longer valid, is it?

Can you state how is 1 John 4:1 not valid? Cross-references does not make a verse invalid. A man who twists a verse makes verses like 1 John 4:1 invalid, something that remains to be seen, of which has not happen yet.I do not like mockery of scripture either - such tends to be a violation in the realm of Biblical Hermeneutics.

Other then that 1 John 4:1 is indeed valid in terms of false prophets, mainly against those who claim to be totally and utterly inspired, those who are borderline Anti-Christ and or those who teach of what is accursed, as stated in Galatians 1.

The question is, if the verse can be applied to those inspired or not inspired? For everyone and their mothers knows, because of Adam and Eve we are imperfect and the price of imperfection we pay is sin. Only from there one can discuss, research and come to the conclusion of said false prophets an those who teach an accursed gospel.

6 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

However I try to summarize the meaning of the quote.
Stay in waiting.
You are watching what will happen in a short time.
Greetings

Make sure the meaning is very close to Scriptural Facts because with minimum discernment one can catch error and refute with what is true against what is not true, and I will wait, as I have with others who speak what is true and some who have spoken utter fortune cookie nonsense, hence the dishonest ones.

I am always watchful, vigilant beyond a point of no return, hence my experience and knowledge of the bible and Christology itself.

Just next time, before you make false accusations of a person, in this case, me, make sure it is true and not outlandish claims.

Exodus 20:16 - “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

Proverbs 19:9 - A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who breathes out lies will perish.

As with the case of Pilate and the Jews against Jesus in regards to false accusations (Matthew 27:22–26).

Ironically, 1 John 4:1 is among the list of verses in regards to false accusations.

Perhaps understand of where I am coming from by looking at my past posts here, example being I am known of breaking down comments to response to each point, as I have here just now.

Other then that I am happy to discuss further on 1 John 4:1 in terms of Hermeneutics and understanding, for as you have already seen, there is now cross-references.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

Dear Space Merchant, you have only expressed two concepts. Can it be done with fewer words?
You say you're alert?
If so, you would have really studied the Bible, including prophecies.
This speech is not addressed to you in particular but to all those who have put an organization and a group of people above the Bible.

This means "to worship one's own religion" rather than God, even if we realize it or not.
The biblical comparison, which was once encouraged (perhaps), is certainly discouraged today, except to arrive at the same conclusions as the self-proclaimed and self-referential "faithful and discreet slave". 

Being a bereans means reaching the same conclusions as those who command because, if by chance your "being berea" arose to other conclusions, always comparing the Scriptures, then you are no longer a "berean" but an apostate, a murmur. All right. it is useless to take the same thread for the thousandth time: it has nothing to do with the article.  The restoration of true worship, which will happen in the future (and it did not happen in 1919) will be a beautiful thing but it will also be painful for all those who have not really dug into the scriptures.

You say you're on guard? Really?
If so, you should know what will happen in the future because the Bible "makes us fully competent" and the prophecy "enlightens us in a dark place". 

What will happen in the future? You know it? 

I do not know what you think but the WT has said that "all the prophecies have been fulfilled and that we are waiting only for the cry of peace and security and therefore the attack on false religion".

Moreover it has been said that Jehovah will not allow a third world war because otherwise "no one would survive".

So we just have to wait to see who's right or maybe it's better to try and understand what the Bible teaches seriously, on these subjects and on others?

So, since almost no one wants to call into question the teachings of their religion Iì (in this sense you should ask yourself who you are really worshiping) I said: "Stand by and watch what happens".

The Bible teaches that the king of the north (which is Russia) will attack Israel (the true nation of Israel, which at present is Babylon the Great and not "the world empire of false religion") and this attack will lead to an escalation of other wars that will lead to the clash with the king of the south (the Ango-American empire, one of the few correct things said by the wt).

And of course he must win the king of the north, as Daniel clearly says (and he will not win the king of the south).

These are the wars the Lord said " Be careful not to be discouraged".
Almost all the prophecies applied to the past (from 1914 onwards) are future prophecies including the reappearance of true worship.

And I would have many other things to say but the confusion would increase.
Now the point is: what I just wrote, is it true or is it false?

Well: Since you do not want to really study the Bible with no religious or cultural conditioning, "we stand by and watch."

Obviously during the war that will break out (next, unfortunately) the WT will say exactly what he said during the first and during the Second World War.
He will say that "this is really the last and will end with armageddon".
Yet another affirmation that will demonstrate biblical ignorance.
The war will not lead directly to armageddon.

Agreed: say that I am presumptuous, ungrateful and other things.
Everything is possible.
I conclude with the same message that I left at the beginning.
When certain things happen, perhaps you will remember this discussion and remember the writing of 1 John 4: 1

After all the beautiful courtly language remains a fact.
If wisdom is true is proven by his works.
We have to wait and see what happens.

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

We have to wait and see what happens.

  

Since we will will have to wait and see what happens (for once you do not tell it), why are you so quick to say what the WT says is wrong?

[Space Merchant]

30 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Dear Space Merchant, you have only expressed two concepts. Can it be done with fewer words?
You say you're alert?
If so, you would have really studied the Bible, including prophecies.

Another false accusation or a claim without proven facts? For if I am aware of prophecy in regards of the bible, how am I not really studying prophecy, when there is legitimate proof I am well adapt in such?

again, do not make claims you cannot determine if it is true, and from my past response on this forum, everything I say is truth and originates from a long time of biblical study.

Again - be wise with your words next time you make comment, for if one sees the history of everything I post here it would pain you as a lair, we wouldn't want that now would we?

And no concepts were expressed, it is merely proving a claim to be false in regards to someone makes false claims of another person, and or seemingly judging said person when it is the first encounter, as we see here.

You made a claim that I followed an organization, last I recall, I am not a JW, I am a Biblical Unitarian, one of such that has a high regard to who speaks truth and who does not speak truth, thus confutation.

35 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

This speech is not addressed to you in particular but to all those who have put an organization and a group of people above the Bible.

Well friend, 1 John 4:1 applies to every man, woman and child who reads their bible, especially if one understands what Testing the Spirit means, which connects with what abides in us as Christians, not sure if you mentioned verse 3.

Can you give an example of people who put the Church above the bible? After all, if one knows who/what the Church means, it's mission, it's goal, which of course originates from the bible, hence Jesus' command and that he himself is the head of the church, how are you making the claim of a man putting the church above the bible when God's Spoken Word is spoken through the Son, the very person of which makes up the church?

The church of which that was said to be built by Jesus alludes to this as well, how is this missed?

I would answer that quite easily, but I do not see how you yourself missed that, after all, all of us here know what the bible says.

41 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

This means "to worship one's own religion" rather than God, even if we realize it or not.
The biblical comparison, which was once encouraged (perhaps), is certainly discouraged today, except to arrive at the same conclusions as the self-proclaimed and self-referential "faithful and discreet slave". 

So what of the Spiritual House and what Jesus had entrusted his Apostles, who in turn, to the followers, to the students, etc of the Church? This alludes to what is stated above. Based on the Apostolic Age, is is unheard of of those who derive from such worship a religion. Any man who is part of a religion has a based belief, at times some beliefs are distributed by religious heads, who are and or act as the Shepherds to the Flock, for if Christian history as not already taught us this, the bible in regards to the Spiritual House and what Jesus commanded, is evident.

You have to have valid proof of a man worshiping  religion, which in this day and age and since the days of our church fathers, an absurd assumption to make and quite unheard of, if anything the real question would be the faith of the religion itself, that being said, this claim of yours does not even make sense.

Other then that, the silly assumption will not do - the reality is, those in a faith and or religion does their teachings and servitude align with God and his Spoken Word, or that of something else, perhaps different from what the scriptures say?

False Prophets are known to twist the scriptures, even breaking, picking and choosing God's laws, other times, rejecting totally the Tanakh, Hebrew Old Testament, which is the case with the Christian denominations of the mainstream and the New Agers, for such ones claim to be of God, yet they ignore parts of and or a majority of his word, example, having people of the same sex marry inside the temple, which clearly is against all things that is holy, for we know, by the bible, God has made man and woman, so they can populate the earth, and teach their seed, offspring of who God is as well as how to life in terms of the teachings.

All and all, the real question is: Is the person and or group following the correct faith/religion or a false ones? Is said religion's teachings is in harmony with God's Word, in harmony with Man's Word, or a mix of both - picking and choosing?

The logic here speaks for itself, and a man who worships a religion is unheard of, unless we have forgotten what the definition of Religion even means:

• the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
• a particular system of faith and worship.
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.

Again, in order to test the spirit (1 John 4:1), information in this regard has to be met with factual proof in terms of a true/false faith.

55 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

I do not know what you think but the WT has said that "all the prophecies have been fulfilled and that we are waiting only for the cry of peace and security and therefore the attack on false religion".

Moreover it has been said that Jehovah will not allow a third world war because otherwise "no one would survive".

Can you get a direct quote from the Watchtower itself for confirmation and so that everyone here can examine it themselves? Because when people say something, they assume it is true without citations.

Jehovah will not allow a 3rd world war? Sources? Who said - You said? Ironic how you made the claim to prophecy, but I will not hold this against you.

Believe me, I know a lot about what is going on in the world right now, things you may not even be aware of, and or unaware of supporting unknowingly, as is the case with 100.00% mainstream Christians. Some, such as myself, are far more vigilant than others, and are not the type to be tricked so easily and or mislead, especially to the claim that you have mentioned, friend, you will have to have a good source on that claim because with anyone who is knowledgeable of the situation at hand - this claim here is false.

Other then that, with the knowledge I have in that domain, I will have to say your source and or claim is as I stated it is, for we are already at a tipping point of a war due to 2 factions, and 2 parties that have connections on both sides, that of which I had mentioned in a thread on this forum with 100% facts of said knowledge - hence my extensive vigilantes. In addition to opposers on both sides, expect the 2 parities in question, that being, The United Nations and the Deep State.

Yahweh/Jehovah will not allow His people to perish, something we both can agree on, for we know how God has reacted, in scripture, when his people are under attack, he is also aware of those who endure and those who adhere to prophecy, like the situation at Jerusalem being an example.

The enemy we have today is the Harlot - Babylon the Great, her agents roam the lands as we speak and has an organization that is connected with a triad of power (political, government, religious) all working as one, mainly in the realm of a One World Government and a One World Religion, for we have already seen what sent down in 2015 and onward regarding religion, and as of 2016, the government, for the legacy of a deceased woman continues to run its engine and acts as an element in the schemes of Babylon the Great.

These Spirits have already been tested by those who know who such persons are, and they are indeed among the Harlot's table of champions, which of whom will stamp out any group and faith that opposes them, and such persons will be met with increased persecution, violence, banishment, and even death. And we also see the decline in Christianity due to falsehood entering Christianity itself, however, Christian minorities still stand and such minorities are the very ones being targeted by the Harlot and that of any wicked evildoer as well as false prophets.

As stated before, God will actually take action when his people are indeed in danger, and he has an appointed time (Matthew 25:13, Luke 21:34, Mark 13:34) of which he will save his people by means of his Son, who will return. Until then, we have yet to suffer from End Times Tribulations that will devastate mankind on a great level.

So in the mean time it is being awake and enduring, as as pertaining to the verse at hand - test the spirits, as well as teach those the gospel that is true.

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Being a bereans means reaching the same conclusions as those who command because, if by chance your "being berea" arose to other conclusions, always comparing the Scriptures, then you are no longer a "berean" but an apostate, a murmur. All right. it is useless to take the same thread for the thousandth time: it has nothing to do with the article.  The restoration of true worship, which will happen in the future (and it did not happen in 1919) will be a beautiful thing but it will also be painful for all those who have not really dug into the scriptures.

Actually you missed core traits of a Berean truly means. A Berean is free of prejudice, they are not gullible, they are energetic and a Berean is not willingly ignorant, all of which equal to Scriptural Facts,I will not bother posting and referring every single verse, but if you know the bible, you would find this quite easily, and how one can compare a Berean to each and everyone person on this thread. I already know where I stand.

It is also important to note that Bereans were receptive to the will of God and they were more than hearers. Whatever the case in regards to our attitude in hearing God's word, we must be obedient to the truth and nothing but the truth. "Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men." - Acts 17:12. Therefore having the spirit of the Bereans is indeed vital.

You may want to re-look at all facts regarding a Berean again and look at the claims you make, you have to be true to your word if you consider yourself a Berean, yet you make claims that you cannot back up - hence the accusations of which you seem to consider as concepts when you clearly do not know my background, as with other claims.

That being said, Restoration of true worship has already been set in motion, and it is by means of true worship, we not only know what is to come, it prepares us to understand scripture and to worship Go the Father, as well as following in what His Son had taught about the Kingdom and what it will bring.

Last I recall, no one said anything about restoration of true worship in 1919, in fact, it is more of Jesus regarding the church, as well as the madness that was taking place in 1919 whereas thousands of people died from the epidemic, prior to the end of the first world war. 500 million affected; over 30 million dead, more death than the war itself.

I would not say painful, for God is indeed a Just God, however, he will not torment people day in and day out, for we know by a verse that wrongdoers will indeed by punished with eternal destruction, not the so called Hell doctrine, for that is not something that would come into the mind of God, let alone how his emotional response was in the Torah and or his actions against Ahaz and Menassah, however, Menassah wised up and repented.

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

So we just have to wait to see who's right or maybe it's better to try and understand what the Bible teaches seriously, on these subjects and on others?

So, since almost no one wants to call into question the teachings of their religion Iì (in this sense you should ask yourself who you are really worshiping) I said: "Stand by and watch what happens".

It is one thing to understand the bible, but is is another thing to easily be mislead to use the bible to attack someone of faith. It is understandable against false doctrines and misuse of the bible, but to attack a faith without a solid conclusion of falsehood, let alone a Restorationist Christian based face, that has to be called into question.

You cannot standby and wait, for that is a sin - doing nothing at all when what is right can easily be done.

Numbers 32:23 - But if you will not do so, behold, you have sinned against the LORD [YHWH], and be sure your sin will find you out.

James 4:17 - So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. (dozen of other verses in this regard)

Therefore,until that time comes, again, we test the spirits, we teach, we preach, we read, we live as Christians, etc. As a Christian, there is always something to do, we are active, not passive or deactivated. As a living self sacrifice to service itself, it is by command we keep ourselves busy in the gospel an the teachings.

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

The Bible teaches that the king of the north (which is Russia) will attack Israel (the true nation of Israel, which at present is Babylon the Great and not "the world empire of false religion") and this attack will lead to an escalation of other wars that will lead to the clash with the king of the south (the Ango-American empire, one of the few correct things said by the wt).

Friend, you are incorrect. Israel is part of Babylon the Great, current Israel, let alone earthly Jerusalem for that matter, is not of God's, but Heavenly Jerusalem indeed is, of which will come soon in the near future - The Bride of the Lamb.

Israel contributed to killing Christians in the Middle East and has killed their own neighbors, one instance, a teenager, young man, now dead because of Israeli powers, and with said power, they shot him square in the skull because he was in the right, as did the others who were shot at, some of them being killed by nearly sniper fire to the head, others with injuries from bullet wounds. I am sure that Jehovah/Yahweh is not a fan of sinners killing an innocent child, let alone anyone who is against corruption in Israel, and the actions of their allies, God will most likely destroy Israel, for they are indeed a major player in the One World Religion, as well as the One World Government.

Russia at this state is a pawn to Babylon and will attack them, nation against nation, for the US and Russia already have several nations under them, as well as allies, again with 2 parties connected to both of them.

As I said before, Babylon the Great consist of Government and Political Powers as well as Religion, of which over a dozen of Religions have already joined her since the Pope was making rounds and gaining support to have all religions merged and or group together, ever take into account of his actions in Washington DC in the US on 2016 whereas in 2015 if was more for political support and gain?

This is why I said it before, some tend to be far more vigilant than others. Russia on the other hand, is also corrupt, they had no problems hiring a Satanist group to pressure Jehovah's Witnesses and Muslims, and once they are off the streets, the Satanist are allowed to run free while the RoC takes over alongside the Duma. The JW ban plays a key role in what is to come and such people are indeed an enemy to Babylon the Great, the reason why right after the Pope visited, the banning of the faith took place by means of the RoC and the Ministry of Justice in Russia, very strict to the point that poems and Pokemon can put you jail.

Again, apply 1 John 4:1 carefully, hence the topic, the actions of modern day Israel, you think they are a true nation of God vs what is said in the Bible of what is to come? God's people do not send support to allies that get Christians raped and killed by terrorist, of which has gain support by means of an Israeli ally, the US. I ask you to be vigilant, but clearly the application of being a Berean is not being applied here.

2 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

And of course he must win the king of the north, as Daniel clearly says (and he will not win the king of the south).

These are the wars the Lord said " Be careful not to be discouraged".
Almost all the prophecies applied to the past (from 1914 onwards) are future prophecies including the reappearance of true worship.

And yet the claim of to a source of God making sure World War 3 will not take place is contradicting, as well as what you being blind to the situation at hand. It is far more dire than you realize, and clearly it is the signs of the times, but we are nowhere near the End Time Tribulations that will be brutal and very hard to deal with.

And yes, we are not discouraged, we endure, we are vigilant, we are doing the works we do not sit around and wait and do nothing. We, by our faith and works teach so that should we perish, the one we teach will continue the words and the spread of the gospel for us, the truth and nothing but the truth.

2 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Now the point is: what I just wrote, is it true or is it false?

Well: Since you do not want to really study the Bible with no religious or cultural conditioning, "we stand by and watch."

Again, do not make claims you know that is not true - false accusations and by means of testing the spirit, one can see where you stand.

I rather not wait and do absolutely nothing, for He that abides in us, I, as a Christian, by faith will do the works, and maintain my faith that is the door to Salvation, for keeping faith, as said in Jude, is indeed a hard fight.

2 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Obviously during the war that will break out (next, unfortunately) the WT will say exactly what he said during the first and during the Second World War.
He will say that "this is really the last and will end with armageddon".
Yet another affirmation that will demonstrate biblical ignorance.
The war will not lead directly to armageddon.

Unfortunately for you, there is actual statement of the WT regarding to what they said to this regard, as well as an eye witness to what was actually said in the 70s, in addition to a man who clearly isn't a fan of JWs, but has high respect for CTR and is well versed in CTR by a study of 56+ years - which includes information about Har'mageddon. Speculative in nature, not one ever stated that Armageddon would definitely come when war breaks out.

2 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Agreed: say that I am presumptuous, ungrateful and other things.
Everything is possible.
I conclude with the same message that I left at the beginning.
When certain things happen, perhaps you will remember this discussion and remember the writing of 1 John 4: 1

Well I am not those things, hence my history, but I cannot speak for others for my position is somewhat unique. That being said there is more to 1 John 4:1 than what you have posted, but it seems to are directing the reader solely on the Watchtower itself rather than the full detail of what 1 John 4:1 brings forth.

I jumped in on this discussion to add cross-references, but the false accusation of you claiming I am somehow not well verses in the bible, is a mistake and I wish not to confute, but if I must - I will.

Until then, I will post in detail of 1 John 4:1 myself regarding an those who are true and those who are false without the need of support of infighting of a faith.

In the end, to make one remember something, you have to teach it the right way. If you teach a dog to sit, to be silent, he will do as such, but if you teach a dog to attack someone, they will do what you have taught them. The same can be said when it comes to teaching what a verse and or passage means in the bible itself.

2 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

After all the beautiful courtly language remains a fact.
If wisdom is true is proven by his works.
We have to wait and see what happens.

Agreed, but what has to be added also is that wisdom is indeed good, but false claims is not the best idea against someone, let alone someone who is well versed in scripture.

Other then that, I will post 1 John 4:1 in detail later on. I purposely left out other cross-references in hopes you'd make a response, but you did not.

But next time you feel the need to make a false claim know this:

I am a Unitarian Christian, studied the bible for 2 decades and has can understand both Greek and Hebrew enabled to know the oldest source of which the bible is based off of - hence my love for Textual Criticism, as some have already know. I take into account of bibical hermeneutics, and I do not refute, I correct by confuting against falsehood or misuse of scripture, as well as dealing with the dishonest. I take into account and defend what is true by means of the oldest source and the teachings. I make a response to every comment and or claim, separately (as I have done here already).

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Since we will will have to wait and see what happens (for once you do not tell it), why are you so quick to say what the WT says is wrong?

Waiting and doing nothing at all is a sin, however waiting and using the time to do the works to build faith is another story. The man has many odd claims to his comments thus far and obviously using Scripture in an attempt to not root out falsehood, but to attack a faith itself, therefore in this matter one can easily see that @Israeli Bar Avaddhon is taking notes out of the mainstream Christianity playbook.

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Waiting and doing nothing at all is a sin, however waiting and using the time to do the works to build faith is another story. The man has many odd claims to his comments thus far and obviously using Scripture in an attempt to not root out falsehood, but to attack a faith itself, therefore in this matter one can easily see that @Israeli Bar Avaddhon is taking notes out of the mainstream Christianity playbook.

As a general rule, I do not like it when someone calls attention to their own special insight or qualifications. It seems to me that this fellow does it in spades.

I actually don't mind speculation or added commentary as long as it clearly is labeled for what it is and does not run down everyone that is not yet so enlightened.

[Space Merchant]

Because I know 1 John 4:1 will not be expressed to what it actually means, I will just go ahead and post the following:

Beloved, believe not every spirit

The apostle having mentioned the word "spirit" in the latter part of the preceding chapter, takes an occasion from thence to return to what he had been suggesting in the "second" chapter, concerning the many antichrists that then were, and whom he points out, and here cautions against. By "every spirit" he means, either every doctrine that is pretended to come from the Spirit of God, or every teacher, who professes to be qualified and sent by him, and to have his light, knowledge, and doctrine from him. Every true minister of the Gospel has the Spirit, and the gifts of the Spirit, more or less, to qualify him for his work; he is separated, and called to it by him, and receives his spiritual light find knowledge from him; it is he that teaches him sound doctrine, and leads him into all truth, as it is in Jesus, and brings every necessary truth to his remembrance; and who succeeds his ministrations to the good of souls: but there are some who call themselves the ministers of the Gospel, who, though they may have some natural abilities, and a share of human learning, and a notional knowledge of things, yet have never received either grace or gifts from the Spirit; nor have they been ever called by him; nor are their ministrations according to that divine word which is inspired by him, nor attended with his demonstration and power; wherefore, though some professing to have the Spirit of Christ are to be believed, yet not everyone; and though the Spirit is not to be quenched in any, nor prophesying to be despised, yet care should be taken what is heard and received: some persons are so obstinate and incredulous as not to believe anything that is declared, be the evidence what it will; as the Jews would not believe Christ and his apostles, though what they said agreed with Moses and the prophets, and was confirmed by miracles; and others are too credulous; at once receive every teacher, and embrace every upstart doctrine: this they should not do,

but try the spirits whether they are of God

not by human reason, especially as carnal and unsanctified; for though the doctrines of the Gospel are not contrary to true reason, they are above it, and not to be judged of by it, and are disapproved of and rejected by carnal reason; but by the word of God, which is the standard of all doctrine; and whatever agrees with that is to be received, and what does not should be rejected. And so to do is very commendable, as appears from the instance of the Beraeans, who on this account are said to be more noble than those of Thessalonica, (Acts 17:11)

Paul and Silas in Berea

[Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so]

and from the commendation of the church at Ephesus, (Revelation 2:2)

To the Church in Ephesus

[“‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.]

And this is what every believer, every private Christian should do; to them it belongs to read and search the Scriptures, and prove all things, and judge for themselves of the truth of doctrine; and to such a probation or trial of the spirits, spiritual light, knowledge, judgment, sense, experience, and divine guidance are necessary, which should be asked of God, and an increase thereof; and all such diligent searchers, and humble inquirers, are capable of making judgment of persons and doctrines, whether they are from the Spirit of God or not, for the Spirit of God never speaks contrary to his word: and the reason why such a trial should be made is,

Because many false prophets are gone out into the world:

such who pretended either to a revelation of future things, and to foretell things to come; or rather to a gift of prophesying, or preaching in Christ's name, to be "prophets" and spiritual men, and ministers of the word, but were "false" ones; who either predicted what did not come to pass, or rather preached false doctrine, by corrupting the word, and handling it deceitfully, and so imposed upon and ruined the souls of others, as well as deceived their own: and there were not only one, or two, or a few of these, but "many", as our Lord had foretold, ( Matthew 24:11 [A] ; Matthew 24:24 )

[A]

Signs of the End of the Age

[And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.]

 

The Abomination of Desolation

[24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.]

and which makes the reason the stronger for not believing every spirit, but trying them; and the rather, since they were not sent of God, that is called out by his churches, but were "gone out" of themselves; of their own heads, and without any mission from God or man: and "into the world" too; they were in every part of it, and especially where there were any churches of Christ; into which they first crept in privily, and at unawares, but afterwards became public preachers of the word, and then separating from them, set up openly in the world for themselves.

Source: https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/1-john-4-1.html

 

Also that World War III about God's actions comment and the WT source I still await, otherwise I come to the conclusion that your spirit has been tested, and the outcome is indeed not a well received one - should said claims of yours are deemed false, which, seems, evident thus far.

The bible informs us of truth and we are not to make any silly outlandish claims on this simple fact. True the nations will rise, but what you mentioned goes beyond the gravity of the situation of things in a different direction.

[Space Merchant]

@Israeli Bar Avaddhon 

I was serious. I am still awaiting on said claims of which you stated.  Since that topic was indeed about 1 John 4:1, bear in mind such error begets this verse to be easily without a shred of effort, to be used against you - should these claims of yours turn out to be false, hence still the sources of which you said such remains to be seen.

[Space Merchant]

@Israeli Bar Avaddhon You do realize I can still see the very comment of which you removed? There is a good reason as to why I call myself Space Merchant, although I can spot half of the comment, which I will quote:

You stated: I have no interest in continuing this conversation with people who prefer to repeat that their religious organization is the right one, that it is never wrong, and that it does not intend to question its own convictions even with the Scriptures.

I concur, for if one brings up a claim and holds it to a high regard and or with strong conviction, such claim should have a source as to such, in your case, 1 John 4:1 can be applied to you, for you brought the claim of several things, but lack an actual and or credible source of said claim, which turns can be deduced to be made up and or said just because whereas actually evidence of said claim does not exist, thus making such obsolete and a total lie to mislead any reader of this topic.

And no one is repeating anything pertaining to a religious organization, the problem is, you are making claims you cannot back up with credible sources, which I will post shortly in this response.

And again you make accusations, which you cannot back up. As I recall, even though this forum is a hub for Christians in the Jehovah's Witnesses faith, not everyone here is a Jehovah's Witness as do some who are not part of a religious backing and or read the bible enough to understand hence why people seek questions from those who can explain something to them, but they are welcome to join this forum and have their say and share some things, but it has not occurred to you probably - unless you are blind to that very solidified fact, which is deemed true to anyone who has access to this forum as a member and or a guest who reads the threads and discussions here.

Oh, and everything has to be done by the Word of God in terms of Scripture, not twisting it, changing it, nor using it for a sick gain.

You stated: I think it is right to make my research and Scriptural reflections available, but discussing or polemics is useless.

There is no issue with that, but the problem you face is with said research you can easily mislead others, and assume that what your research is final judgement for any man, woman, or child who professes said faith, when people know very well everyone is distinct and different from each other regardless of their religious background. For instance, you may know JWs, Muslims, and Jews in the a specific state and county in the US, but you do not such ones who live in the micro islands, in Asia, perhaps India or Iran. Same faith yes, but each of them differ, some more stronger in biblical studies and understanding than others, while those who lack tend to be easy target of any Anti-Christian and or Anti-Religion person who crosses paths with them.

You stated: If you are really interested ...

Buddy, I am more interested in a source and a detailed answer to claims.

The lite stuff as mentioned below, in case you didn't see the response or realize what I as getting at.

• Since you do not want to really study the Bible with no religious or cultural conditioning, "we stand by and watch."

Any man or woman who claims biblical hermeneutics should tell you something, and I have claimed this many, many times as well as my understanding of scripture and history in Christianity, in addition to the study of the language. It is one thing to study the bible, but it is another thing to understand what the bible teaches, for studying the bible alone will not help you, mainly when tasked and put in a position to answer basic, but still somehow complex questions, of which people want to seek answers to.

That being said, if the bible gave clear instruction that we should not be idling as Christians, why the response from you?

• Obviously during the war that will break out (next, unfortunately) the WT will say exactly what he said during the first and during the Second World War. He will say that "this is really the last and will end with armageddon". Yet another affirmation that will demonstrate biblical ignorance. The war will not lead directly to armageddon.

So if the WT has already had a state on something why contradicted it with the response you have given about the group? Let alone the information presented by those who are neutral with and or not a fan of the Watchtower at all, for if their word is true, why bring a contradicting statement?

• I do not know what you think but the WT has said that "all the prophecies have been fulfilled and that we are waiting only for the cry of peace and security and therefore the attack on false religion"

I study the history of Christianity (a great deal of it to the point it plays like a documentary movie in my head), apparently I do know more about the Watchtower as well as I know about other Christian faiths, the Sunni and Shia beliefs in Islam and many other faiths, for to speak on terms with one person, you have to understand where they are coming from and why, hence the study of religion and faith -  Theology. The cry of peace and security has resulted in the creation of the Interfaith Institute that had the Pope do his little events at a UN gathering, as well as his actions in 2015 to 2016, especially Washington DC, just recently prior to the Syria Attack done by the US, Israel and backed allies, Peace and Security has been mentioned and soon after that the actions taken by Christians in Syria against the people you claim to be just, the Israeli gov't, as well as their allies, the head of the group being the US. But one never notices the actions of religions when Peace and Security is uttered, just wait until the One World Region takes full effect, perhaps only then you would see, but it will be a bit late.

That being said, you really do not believe that the false prophets who have religion as a front will not be attacked? They are going to throw something down in Texas in October to gain more people on their side, for the bigger they get, the more bigger the target gets on religious minorities and eventually the nation will attack religion, for if you are against them, or as the political communication phrase goes -  "you're either with us, or against us"

•  Moreover it has been said that Jehovah will not allow a third world war because otherwise "no one would survive".

Who said this, and how are you so sure of a claim that it seems to be that you are the only to "make this up" for it cannot be found anywhere else expect your comment? This is why I stated, if you make a claim, back it up with detail and or sources, otherwise your spirit will be tested and in this case, it came out as a negative, until valid proof is presented.

This is the very problem that a lot of people face with those who claim rapture before end time tribulations, for they make the claim but do not have proof to back it up, which hurts them even more is that the bible says otherwise. Perhaps next time you mention something, make sure it is valid and or that the source itself can be seen, read and verified. We should not resort to dishonesty to mislead the masses, and seeing that I literally know the actions of the government and politicians because I literally dive into this stuff, mainly with the situation of a world war for I have a very very VERY strong source in this regard, and I presented my information elsewhere on this forum, you can look for it in my activity.

• The Bible teaches that the king of the north (which is Russia) will attack Israel (the true nation of Israel, which at present is Babylon the Great and not "the world empire of false religion") and this attack will lead to an escalation of other wars that will lead to the clash with the king of the south (the Ango-American empire, one of the few correct things said by the wt).

So how is a nation true and pure if they are able to snipe and shoot down innocent civilians who are not for the corruption of Israel? I am not a fan of RT, but somehow they manage to get the footage, which describes what I am talking about.

So is this God's people as you claim to be true? Mind you, the Israelis shot and killed a 15 year old who was walking away in the opposite direction. As I last recall, the Israeli government is part of Babylon the Great, for the group that the Pope is part of, the group in origins is Israel. The United Nations and the Deep State have their hands deem in the very team they want to win, anyone on the side of the US and those who are connected to the US alone, and such ones are against those who are against US's conquest, the very reason why Israel is now in conflict with Iran, who is teamed up with Russia. But what is interesting is this alone contradicts your previous claim.

As for Russia, they are not too clean either, but there is a clear reason as to why they are against the One world agenda, the very reason why the Pope is trying to join both sides, which will result into something far worse, for the last time the Pope came into contact with the Russia's church, the JWs got banned and the kidnapping of civilians took place in Chechnya, and the Ukrainian Christians were very angry over what the Pope had said about them to the RoC.

Also again, it would be kind if you were to post an actual source and or the very saying on the WT's side rather than just saying it to expect people to believe words without fact. So this is the reason I stated the following of still awaiting a detailed source to such claims, perhaps then I would understand where you are coming from, but in this instance, one can apply 1 John 4:1 to the claims you mentioned, for if you say something, it has to be deemed as true, for if it is not true, the very notion of 1 John 4:1 will be subjected to you in telling something that is false and deeming it to be true - that is, if you have real information of said things mentioned.

As for the accusations however, despite that being false, I would not hold it against you, for as I said, this is the very first time you/I have discussed with you/me. So I would not hold such against you, but should you expand on the notion of false accusations, expect a not so pleasant confutation, for a confutation is far more critical than the average refutation.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[Israeli Bar Avaddhon]

I had made a comment but then I realized it was not worth it.
This is why I canceled it.
Continue to shake hands.
Good continuation

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

I had made a comment but then I realized it was not worth it.
This is why I canceled it.
Continue to shake hands.
Good continuation

Just next time never make claims that cannot be backed up and or false accusations because the very verse that is in question, 1 John 4:1, can and will be used against you in regards such. As a Christian, you have to tread carefully, otherwise there will be those who will pick up and cause what you say to backfire on you and you alone by means of critical unshakable truths.

Those who study the bible do there best to not make such an error as you just have, in regards to the bible, even Jesus himself was falsely accused and we can see how he defended what is true and himself when challenged by Pharisees and those who do not like him or what he had to say.

But as for your more direct false accusations, I will consider it as nothing more than water under the bridge, so to speak, for this time, and perhaps you will now know there are serious people on this forum as realized - you just discussed with one and it will happen again should any error or false claim is coined - for I myself come from a very neutral, and yet highly critical and very serious community that consist of solely biblical readers whereas the slightest of error there will result in a very strong confutation, not a mere refutation.

Other then that I will leave this here as a reminder, for this below does not apply to a specific faith and or other, it applies to all people who make false accusations and or the enabler, the one who makes such claims:

Quote

What does the Bible say about false accusations?

Regarding false accusations, the psalmist says, “For they do not speak peace, but against those who are quiet in the land they devise words of deceit” (Psalm 35:20). This is an accurate description of the motives and results of false accusations. People lie about the innocent in order to stir up trouble. This happens on every level of society, from the halls of your local high school to the halls of the Pentagon. People accuse others falsely as a revenge tactic or power play or when they think they have something to gain. There is no need to state that this behavior is unbiblical in the extreme.

The command against making false accusations is one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:16). According to Mosaic Law, someone who accused another person falsely was to receive an ironic punishment: “The judges shall inquire diligently, and if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely, then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother. So you shall purge the evil from your midst” (Deuteronomy 19:18–19). The Law also specified that the punishment of a false witness was to be carried out without pity (Deuteronomy 19:21); it is a serious thing in God’s eyes to make a false accusation.

The folly of making a false accusation is illustrated in the book of Esther. A man named Haman, a nobleman in the court of King Ahasuerus, devised a plot to frame a Jew named Mordecai and have him hanged on a gallows fifty cubits high. Haman sought to ensure Mordecai’s death by means of false accusations. Haman devised this plot because he hated Jews, and he especially hated Mordecai because Haman was jealous of a favor Mordecai had received from the king. But Haman’s plot was found out, and the punishment for Haman’s treachery was poetic justice—he was hung on the very gallows he had constructed for Mordecai (Esther 5:9–14; 6:4).

Those who make false accusations are under God’s judgment (Psalm 5:6). As followers of Christ, we can expect that people will sometimes make false accusations against us, but hear Jesus’ encouragement: “Blessed are you when people . . . falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven” (Matthew 5:11–12). No matter what others say about us falsely, we rely on God’s Word: “Though the arrogant have smeared me with lies, I keep your precepts with all my heart. Their hearts are callous and unfeeling, but I delight in your law” (Psalm 119:69–70).

Jesus Himself faced false accusations from the Pharisees and their followers. Isaiah prophesied this when he said of the Messiah, “He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth” (Isaiah 53:7). Even Pilate, the Roman governor who oversaw Jesus’ sentence, knew that Jesus had done nothing wrong, but he pandered to the Jews and allowed the false accusations to stand (Matthew 27:22–26).

According to the Mosaic Law, those who falsely accused the Son of God should have been themselves crucified. Instead, Jesus looked down at the soldiers and the rulers who were scoffing at Him and dividing up His clothing, and He said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34). This was an indication that the Mosaic Law had been fulfilled by Jesus’ sacrifice and that a new law of forgiveness and mercy through faith in the Lamb of God was now in place for all who would believe in Him. “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ” (John 1:17; 3:16).