Elders’ Training Videos for 2018: Pioneering is Just a Title, a Reward and a Punishment

[Shiwiii]

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"..apostate LIES!"

What are you going to call it when it is true?   Spiritual food? 

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

No reasonable adult is THAT stupid

No need for them to be THAT stupid, its already been declared that jws should follow the direction no matter how stupid. 

"All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Of course, there is a resident Doctor on hand at every Bethel .... or at least a Nurse Practitioner .... and I am sure that any "problems" in these regards could be properly diagnosed.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

On 1/26/2018 at 2:45 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I can imagine that there are videos that "leak", and people of course "leak", ( that's why as a general rule EVERYONE wears underwear)

 

[Shiwiii]

On 1/26/2018 at 11:57 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

 

Did you happen to watch the full video yet? 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I found on Youtube one that was without commentary, but it appeared to have large sections cut out.

I have not yet found anything that would PROVE it is not fake news, yet.

I trust NO ONE at face value.

[Shiwiii]

Do you know who the two chaps in the video are? Gary Breaux and Ralph Walls

Are these not legit folks high up in the wt? 

Haven't there been other videos with these guys speaking before? 

I understand you trust no one, but its hard not to when its coming from their own mouths. 

Is it possible that you, and others, are trying really hard NOT to believe its real? 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

53 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Is it possible that you, and others, are trying really hard NOT to believe its real? 

In my case, NO.

I throw my hat in with Jehovah's Witnesses IN SPITE of its leadership .... I think Jehovah's Spirit infuses the rank-and-file Witnesses, because as a retired engineer, I follow the TRUTH wherever it goes, but I try to demand PROOF... and where the "rubber meets the road", is where the analysis need to take place.

Down at the bottom.

53 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Do you know who the two chaps in the video are? Gary Breaux and Ralph Walls

Are these not legit folks high up in the wt? 

I have no idea who these two men are, and I really don't care.  Several people have said who they are SUPPOSED to be.

Whoever they are, they talk like they are being severely punished to make this video, and are reading a script generated by a short circuited  AI chip.  I can just visualize that they are completely mortified to have to do this ... but the only alternative is to learn a completely new trade, which includes the phrase "You want Fries with that ?"

It is SO LUDICROUS I would very much like to believe it is not true ... but if it can be PROVEN true, I will HAVE to accept that down here on Earth, Jehovah's Chariot has been transformed into a circus clown car.

The Governing Body was forced by the ARC to admit in the Feb. 2017 Watchtower that they are "neither inspired of God or infallable".

DUH!

[Matthew9969]

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In my case, NO.

I throw my hat in with Jehovah's Witnesses IN SPITE of its leadership .... I think Jehovah's Spirit infuses the rank-and-file Witnesses, because as a retired engineer, I follow the TRUTH wherever it goes, but I try to demand PROOF... and where the "rubber meets the road", is where the analysis need to take place.

Down at the bottom.

I have no idea who these two men are, and I really don't care.  Several people have said who they are SUPPOSED to be.

Whoever they are, they talk like they are being severely punished to make this video, and are reading a script generated by a short circuited  AI chip.  I can just visualize that they are completely mortified to have to do this ... but the only alternative is to learn a completely new trade, which includes the phrase "You want Fries with that ?"

It is SO LUDICROUS I would very much like to believe it is not true ... but if it can be PROVEN true, I will HAVE to accept that down here on Earth, Jehovah's Chariot has been transformed into a circus clown car.

The Governing Body was forced by the ARC to admit in the Feb. 2017 Watchtower that they are "neither inspired of God or infallable".

DUH!

And you still insist on worshipping Jehovah through them, your smart mind is a paradox.

[Shiwiii]

4 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

And you still insist on worshipping Jehovah through them, your smart mind is a paradox.

That's the part I don't get either. 

 

17 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is SO LUDICROUS I would very much like to believe it is not true ... but if it can be PROVEN true, I will HAVE to accept that down here on Earth, Jehovah's Chariot has been transformed into a circus clown car.

The Governing Body was forced by the ARC to admit in the Feb. 2017 Watchtower that they are "neither inspired of God or infallable".

I don't think if it were proven true that it would make any difference to you JTR. You'd still throw your hat in their camp, because its the best game in town, in your view. You've said as much. Your last sentence is a complete contradiction of what they have said for years and years, but its still not enough to convince you that this group the jws/wt is following men, use to be 7 men and now 8 again. You had mentioned in a different post that you are with the jws and it doesn't matter who is in charge or leading the group. While I agree that there are some fine folks who are jws and moral people they are for the most part, its still lemming mentality to continue to follow the group just because they are nice people being led by who knows. I will also apologize now for singling out just you here, I am sorry, I do not mean to make you upset or have a distaste for me. I like you, I like your sense of humor and your wit, and that is why I singled you out. 

I would hope that instances like this would make a person pause, take a step back and take an honest look at what is being taught/told/demanded of jws. The compounding problems that are coming up from this org should be enough for people to open their eyes and do diligent research on EVERYTHING, but sadly many are in a position in which they either cannot leave due to family, or are so blinded that they cannot see what is going on. When a group tells its people be ready to obey our instruction no matter how crazy we sound, that right there should be a red flag. Ignoring the obvious doesn't make it go away.  I see it daily, the jws keep on the edge of their seats waiting for the next hoop that they need to jump through to look good to each other. Its like high school, except in high school we didn't know any better and now as adults some still need that social group to belong to and refuse to grow up. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Shiwii:

I agree with everything you said in the immediately preceding post .... but I have a different perspective.

Let's say you are a United States Marine, and see the need to protect the Nation, and Civilization by being the "point of the spear".

When spears are thrown, they often miss, and are thereby wasted.

The word "sin", I understand, means literally missing your target.

In warfare you know about how many bullets it takes to kill ONE enemy soldier?

About 14,000 bullets ... as most are used providing suppressive fire.

In the Marines, as in every organization of men ... people rise until they reach their own level of incompetence ... and then they keep getting promoted.  Soldiers in the field ... the ones actually doing the fighting ... with very few exceptions ... have their allegiance to their "Brothers in Arms", and not to their leaders, who as they rise, become more and more like file clerks.

I was the focus of a disfellowshipping trial, and I was trying to explain my philosophy to the head guy, and he cut me off .... saying "I don't want to hear anything about the Marines".   And, he did not allow me to continue.

There are people that understand the NEED for Marines ... in spite of their sometimes and often incompetent and clueless leadership, and there are those that do NOT understand this.

To understand my viewpoint on a practical level .... you need to see the movie "Hacksaw Ridge" at least twice. AT LEAST TWICE.

All civilizations grow and evolve, and the casualties are ENORMOUS.   The United States of America has committed innumerable sins and evils in it's pursuit of righteousness, equity and Justice ... and is continuing to do so.

So has the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society .... and you are right ...

11 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Its like high school, except in high school we didn't know any better and now as adults some still need that social group to belong to and refuse to grow up. 

The difference is that I personally am NOT a social person ... I am only an IDEA person, and I know what is going on as well, AND MORE than you do .... and I try to serve Jehovah and Christ ... sometimes .... and at 71 years old, I DO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

When you are the "point of the spear", you get covered with figurative blood and gore. That is the main ingredient of growth and progress ... and it always takes TIME.  Sometimes several lifetimes.

Oh ... and any rational adult conversation, such as we are now having, please NEVER consider that I take insult.  I don't do that even when I am deliberately insulted.

I hope that before I die, I see the JW Organization grow and mature where everything we do is open, transparent, and that we can be proud of what we say, think and do.

I will KNOW when this happens ..... instead of wasting billions of hours knocking on other people's doors ..... THEY will be knocking on OURS.

Below is a rare example from today's news of the principles that are supposed to guide the United States.

I hope to see the Society mature that much in my own lifetime ... it is being pursued by hemorrhaging money in that direction, and by Mr. Google, who never sleeps.

Until then ... I will follow the circus clown car .... but at a long, safe distance.

Nobody in my lifetime has ever accused me of being "Brother Watchtower".

 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

What?  Me Worry?

[Shiwiii]

22 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Let's say you are a United States Marine, and see the need to protect the Nation, and Civilization by being the "point of the spear".  

When spears are thrown, they often miss, and are thereby wasted.

The word "sin", I understand, means literally missing your target.

In warfare you know about how many bullets it takes to kill ONE enemy soldier?

About 14,000 bullets ... as most are used providing suppressive fire.

In the Marines, as in every organization of men ... people rise until they reach their own level of incompetence ... and then they keep getting promoted.  Soldiers in the field ... the ones actually doing the fighting ... with very few exceptions ... have their allegiance to their "Brothers in Arms", and not to their leaders, who as they rise, become more and more like file clerks.

 

22 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There are people that understand the NEED for Marines ... in spite of their sometimes and often incompetent and clueless leadership, and there are those that do NOT understand this.

To understand my viewpoint on a practical level .... you need to see the movie "Hacksaw Ridge" at least twice. AT LEAST TWICE.

I can appreciate and understand COMPLETELY your position. It is also the reason why I decided to cancel my subscription to participate in the armed forces. Your point is very valid and your perspective is a correct one. I too have a different view of that exact structure and what it fosters. 

I fully acknowledge that the leadership of military organizations is chocked full of folks who have no business being in the positions they are in. It was my personal experiences that led me to reject that form of employment. I worked in many of the places that the "brass" did because of my abilities and training, I was secure comm and was slotted to become one of the elite. What I could not handle and agree with were the very things you mention. I could not continue to support an organization that deliberately went against morality to save face for a few, all the while putting those under them in harms way because of it. So I left. It really is no difference in the corporate world, except your are not there to protect anything but the higher ups bonus and no one is in harms way. 

When this philosophy is attached my eternal destiny, and not just my paycheck, things take a very different course of action. I do not throw my hat in ANY ring! Do I have fellowship? yes. Do I have those whom I seek for help on Spiritual matters? yes. Are they the end all be all and no questions when it comes to their interpretation? no. I cannot allow someone else to take the rudder out of my hands on something so important as this. Am I perfect and have all of the answers? no, but who is the one to answer to God when that day comes? Me and only me. So when I see organizations, such as the wt, make such high demands upon their members without the ability for them to question or disagree, I have to speak up about it. 

23 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I hope that before I die, I see the JW Organization grow and mature where everything we do is open, transparent, and that we can be proud of what we say, think and do.

I will KNOW when this happens ..... instead of wasting billions of hours knocking on other people's doors ..... THEY will be knocking on OURS.

I am no prophet nor fortuneteller, but I strongly believe you will never see this happen, no one will. The reason why is the mistakes being made are far to serious and underhanded to be forgotten or dismissed to the educated mind. As our world progresses so does common knowledge (we hope), and it is only a matter of time before the truth about the "truth" comes out in such a way that the society/wt goes the way of the dodo. People are only as stupid as they allow themselves to be. If people choose to hide their head in the sand and ignore what is really going on, they will be ignorant and accept whatever is being fed to them. The history of this org and their claims and practices  should be enough, but at this point it isn't. One must now look into the past and compare the current teachings, if the material isn't lost or changed, and truly see if God is backing their actions. I have researched these things and cannot believe that God has anything to do with this org. Just like you said "All civilizations grow and evolve, and the casualties are ENORMOUS.   The United States of America has committed innumerable sins and evils in it's pursuit of righteousness, equity and Justice ... and is continuing to do so." , but none of the civilizations were the answer to our eternal destiny. It is a growth process, but you can only grow so very far by tyranny. Tyranny like those of the Pharaohs and Pharisees is what we are looking at within the wt from my view.