Does the Governing Body live on-campus or off-campus?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

In the United States, we have the most sophisticated method of slavery known to all civilization, with taskmasters that are relentless, and efficient ... striking fear into the hearts of all citizens.

The Internal Revenue Service, or IRS

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In the United States, we have the most sophisticated method of slavery known to all civilization, with taskmasters that are relentless, and efficient ... striking fear into the hearts of all citizens.

The Internal Revenue Service, or IRS

Ah yes, the IRS, for from Pre-School into college days, out into the slave pens, with the very meaning of the IRS is engrave on our ball and chain, strapped to our foot as we work to the bone like hamsters running the wheel, and it cannot be removed, for such a thing we take to the grave, and what we did not finish is the burden of our children and or relatives, who also have the IRS up on their necks, for the cycle continues like an endless bad dream -  insanity, the same thing over and over again, for even if you snap, it continues. For the Government controls, brainwashes, and oppresses everything and everyone, a time will come when they will put their hands on education, religion, businesses, etc, but this time, with an iron fist - but they are binding their time.

So yeah, the IRS is always going to be on us, they will always tax us, we will also have bills to pay where it involves them, and sometimes when we have tax refunds, they have their hand in it also.

 

But in all seriousness, Slavery is still relevant today, even in the US. For its presence is within Human Trafficking and or holding people for hard labor work against their will. On a serious tone, The United States have single handled handed helped out in turning Libya into a den for Terrorism, reviving Black Slavery (which is huge in Libya), swiftly and quickly after they took out Muammar Gaddafi, in addition to refugees being taken into the Slave Trade. Elsewhere in the Middle East, because of the United States, politicians and conservative political Evangelicals, they were for what happen to Syranic Christians, for those who did not escape ended up being killed, taken as slaves, and or wives by ISIS due to the Kurds, supported by the US, leaving them Syrianic Christians by themselves. Not to mention the illegal blood and organ trade, which also goes with the slave trade in Liyba, as well as around the globe.

 

As much as I DISLIKE CNN , this is what I speak of:

 

The Syranic Christian one is regarding this video, what isn't mention is that some trading of their faith to take arms to fight ISIS:

 

All in all, even today, some Christians, on the down low, either are for slavery or unknowingly support the very government that are accomplice to slavery, for in the end, all that matters it the $ money $ that comes from it as with other things regarding war and corruption, hence why they silence people like Serena Shim, Seth Rich, Klaus Eberwein, John Ashe, Peter Smith, as for Elizabeth Beck, well, shes on the run and in hiding, especially with that disturbing and yet shocking interview she gave.

Makes you think, does God really bless America with all the shenanigans going on in the states, and the actions of the US and the EU around the globe?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

"Follow the Money!"

Money ... always tells the truth.

[Witness]

35 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

t seems like to be fair, he'd have to, figuratively speaking, go to 'every door' somehow, in order to give 'everyone' a chance to "hear his voice, and open the door."  Would he deputize helpers, maybe?:

We know people gravitated toward Jesus, because of his healing acts, and the accounts of feeding thousands.  Once he entered a town, his reputation would have followed him, and also the disciples who were  given the gifts of healing.  There were many instances where throngs of people surrounded him.  Luke 4:42; 9:12; John 4:28-30

When we reach out to the Father, Jesus personally opens the door to our heart. “Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.”  John 6:37

“This is the will of him who sent me: that I should lose none of those he has given me but should raise them up on the last day.  For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”  John 6:39,40

 Think beyond the physical and perceive how powerful the Spirit of God can be.  Acts 15:8; Gal 4:6

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

*trigger warning/ cuidado!* for what follows,

[ because you said you were sick of hearing the words immediately following ]

  -"He fed many through the hands of a few."  

Definition of a “steward”  -

One who manages another's property, finances, or other affairs.

2. One who is in charge of the household affairs of a large estate, club, hotel, or resort.

3. A ship's officer who is in charge of provisions and dining arrangements.

4. An attendant on a ship or airplane. 

5. An official who supervises or helps to manage an event.

Is a steward of a household, the one who buys the food?  Does he prepare it?  Does he do the laundry? 

Luke 12:42; Eph 2:19; 1 Tim 3:15; 5:8 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12%3A42%3B+Eph+2%3A19%3B+1+Tim+3%3A15%3B+5%3A8 &version=CSB

As “steward”/manager over the anointed “house” of God, the GB demands to do it all.  Are they doing their job under the regulations of what a “steward” is, or have they abused their position?  Matt 24:46

All the provision that anointed ones could provide through their anointing is taken away by the one slogan – “feeding many through the hands of a few”.    The anointed ones have become slaves to a “wicked steward”.  Rather than treasure each one’s gift and talents that God gave them, the GB squanders them away by keeping them in submission to themselves, and a false priesthood – elder body. (1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17)  The GB abuses not only their fellow “servants” by keeping them silent,  but they resist the Holy Spirit’s provisions that are gifts unused, and found in each anointed heart.  Matt 24:46,48,49; Luke 12:37,45,47 

Ezek 34:17-22,11-16; Isa 65:13; Rev 8:10,11  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A46%2C48%2C49%3B+Luke+12%3A37%2C45%2C47%3B ++Ezek+34%3A17-22%2C11-16%3B+Isa+65%3A13%3B+Rev+8%3A10%2C11&version=CSB

Do you believe that the GB has more to offer than any other anointed slave of Christ? By disregarding the guidelines of a faithful steward, all evidence shows they have lost the “talent” of Holy Spirit first given them. Matt 13:12; 25:24,26-30  They have created a schism, detaching themselves from the Head – Christ.  1 Cor 12:1-26  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+13%3A12%3B+25%3A24%2C26-30%3B+1+Cor+12%3A1-26&version=CSB

What happens when the anointed realize this and speak up?  Psychological “beating” occurs.  Matt 24:49 Disfellowshipping occurs.  John 16:2,4; Matt 10:16,26,28; 24:49; Rev 13:14,15  Anointed have been waking up to this for a long while.  Gal 1:10   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+24%3A49%3B+John+16%3A2%2C4%3B+Matt+10%3A16%2C26%2C28%3B+24%3A49%3B++Rev+13%3A14%2C15%3B Gal+1%3A10&version=CSB

The GB stamps their spiritual food with a trademark; and distributes it through their cohorts – elder body, who imbibe on the same wine/teachings.   Anyone teaching outside of this boundary is condemned. Matt 24:48-51; Rev 13:1,2,16,17  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=+Matt+24%3A48-51%3B+Rev+13%3A1%2C2%2C16%2C17&version=CSB

This organizational structure suppresses the Holy Spirit’s direction that could be obtained by all.  Truly, the GB have robbed each JW of what could be life-giving spiritual food. 

“It was granted to him (organizational “beast”) to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.  Rev 13:7

You will not find a faithful “steward” over God’s household under such deviousness and desirous prominence and power; but outside this arrangement, where faithful “slaves” of Christ work together to feed those who are leaving the Wt. spiritually starved. 

Ezek 34:23; Rev 11:3,4; John 16:3; Luke 12:37; Matt 10:27,40,20; John 21:17  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezek+34%3A23%3B+Rev+11%3A3%2C4%3B+John+16%3A3%3B+Luke+12%3A37%3B+Matt+10%3A27%2C40%2C20%3B+John+21%3A17++ &version=CSB

 

You quoted scriptures from Rom 10, but look at Rom 10:13.  The NWT erroneously says “call on the name of Jehovah”.  The “good news” at that time, was the preaching of Christ and his teachings (Rom 10:9) Israel was already aware of who God was.  It is the name of Jesus Christ that should be placed in Rom 10:13

Rom 10:14-17- How, then, can they call on him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about him? And how can they hear without a preacher? ^ And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. ^16 But not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message? ^17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ.

Has the Watchtower “obeyed the gospel” by changing its directive?

 

[Space Merchant]

Stewards are also those who are taking the lead, examples being the apostles and other Christian teachers and bishops and overseers, etc. and or a freeman or a trusted slave/servant. An example of this would be Abraham to Eliezer of Damascus, for Eliezer is the steward of Abraham, and or his servant/slave, .

(Titus 1:7 and 1 Corinthians 4:1, 2, as well as connected verses)

Abraham and Eliezer - see (Genesis 13:2, 14:14,15:2, 23:17-20, Acts 7:4, 5)

In Peter's case (1 Peter 4:10), he points out that Christians, Overseers and others are all stewards of God's undeserved kindness, which is expressed in a variety of ways - being in God's arrangement in which faithful servitude and or stewardship is carried out.

Peter points out to all Christians, overseers and others, that they are stewards of God’s undeserved kindness expressed in various ways, and he shows that each has a sphere, or a place, in God’s arrangement in which he can carry out a faithful stewardship.

Then again to accuse a group of being part of Babylon, yet buy into conspiracy is rather telling. There is a reason as to why some Christians do not encourage infighting and or enticing such.

9 hours ago, Witness said:

You quoted scriptures from Rom 10, but look at Rom 10:13.  The NWT erroneously says “call on the name of Jehovah”.  The “good news” at that time, was the preaching of Christ and his teachings (Rom 10:9) Israel was already aware of who God was.  It is the name of Jesus Christ that should be placed in Rom 10:13

Incorrect.

The Jehovah's Witnesses merely restored the name from the Tetragrammaton in that verse (as did others) - the only error made was removing/replacing it from the scripture, putting LORD/Lord in its place instead of Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH, this is why basic Hermeneutical interpretation is very, very important. In addition to that, despite the name not being there, one can easily differentiate who is who in Romans 10 (or throughout the bible who is God and his actions and who is Jesus and his actions, etc). For this was the case with other translations who inserted and or restored the name of God back into scripture, some like the Aramaic Bible in Plain English for example, so the NWT is in the clear for that and not in error - as you claim.

Facts: 

• Some try to prove that Jesus is Jehovah (Yahweh) by pointing to Romans 10:13 and Joel 2:32. The argument is made that Paul is here calling Jesus “Lord”. Since this is a reference to Joel 2:32, where it tells us that whoever calls on the name of Jehovah (Yahweh) will be delivered, Trinitarians as well as oneness believers claim that this means that Jesus is the same (sentient?) being (or person, in the case of our “oneness” neighbors) as Jehovah (Yahweh). Some translations render Romans 10:13 as calling upon Jehovah or Yahweh, in other translation, the name is replaced with LORD/Lord.
• Jesus (or Yeshua) is the means that Jehovah/Yahweh has provided for salvation (John 3:16,17), no one can come to Jehovah/Yahweh but through Jesus (John 14:6), and no other means has been given by Jehovah/Yahweh for salvation than the name of Jesus. (Acts 4:12).

 

Now, basic Hermeneutics again, Romans 10:13 points directly back to these verses:

Joel 2:32 - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Jehovah/Yahweh [LORD] shall be delivered; for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those that escape, as Jehovah/Yahweh [LORD] hath said, and among the remnant those whom Jehovah doth call.

Acts 2:21 - And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [Jehovah/Yahweh] shall be saved.

And yes, the early Christian did now who God the Father is, they acknowledged him openly on the opening of Romans chapter 10, soon they go into speaking about The Message of Salvation to All.

Now as for Romans 10:9-13 it clearly states that not only they believe Jesus Christ is Lord(for God has made Jesus Lord upon resurrecting Jesus), and openly stated that they also believe in the One who resurrected Jesus Christ. For you to say the following "It is the name of Jesus Christ that should be placed in Rom 10:13" is wrong, for you clearly see that the Christians knew Jesus was risen because of God having a part in bringing back the Christ out of the dead (Firstborn out of the dead), and the book of Acts it is mentioned dozens of times and elsewhere in the Greek New Testament.

Romans 10:9-13

(9) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord [A] and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead [X], you will be saved. (10) For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. (11) For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame. [C]” (12) For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. (13) For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved [D].”

[A]

Acts 16:31 - And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

 

1 Corinthians 9:6 - Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

2 Corinthians 4:13 - Since we have the same spirit of faith according to what has been written, “I believed, and so I spoke,” we also believe, and so we also speak,

Hebrews 13:15 - Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.

[C]

Isaiah 28:16 - therefore thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am the one who has laid as a foundation in Zion, a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: ‘Whoever believes will not be in haste.’

Romans 9:33 - as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

[D] Was already mentioned, Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21

[X]

In scripture, mainly the Greek New Testament, speaks of the Risen Christ and or the Resurrection of Christ - Firstborn out of the Dead, the First-fruits , for such is important when knowing who the Risen Christ what is resurrection even means. It also speaks about God the Father being the one responsible for raising the Christ out of Hades/Grave, out of the pangs of death.

Examples like

Acts 2:23  and 24 - (23) this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. (24) God raised him [Jesus] up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him [Jesus] to be held by it.

Acts 10:40-43 - (40) but God raised him [Jesus] on the third day and made him [Jesus] to appear, (41) not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him [Jesus] after he [Jesus] rose from the dead. (42) And he [Jesus] commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he [Jesus] is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. (43) To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him [Jesus] receives forgiveness of sins through His [God] name.”

For "through His name" is compared to to 3 verses, Isaiah 53:11, Jeremiah 31:34 and Daniel 9:24. For believing in the Christ enables one to receive the gift of God's grace by means of his Son - the free and full forgiveness of sin(s) through Christ.

There are as many other verses in regards to God raising Jesus out of Hades. And these verses, and the understanding and context should not and will not be ignored.

As for God making Jesus Lord

Quote

The word "Lord" is a term which refer to authority. When Jesus rose from the dead he said, "All authority in heaven and upon the earth has been given to me" (Matthew 28:18). At Acts 2:36 we read that God made Jesus Lord when He raised him from the dead.

Act 2:36 - Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” (see Matthew 28:18, John 3:35, and Acts 5:31)

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself: 'The LORD said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies Your footstool. (Psalms 110:1, see Romans 8:34, Hebrews 8:1, 12:2 and Ephesians 1:20)" ' Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every kneel will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11).

Keep in mind also, that what Jesus Christ says or does (Shal'iah Principle) is not of his own, but originates from his Father and his God.

 

Also Lord is common, for Abraham was Sarah's Lord, The Philippian Jailer calls Paul and Silas Lords, God is LORD/Lord and Jesus is Lord, etc.

[Space Merchant]

On 3/6/2018 at 8:52 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"Follow the Money!"

Money ... always tells the truth.

Not always, for when you go for money, others who want money will take your money and the cycle continues. Like an endless labyrinth that you go through over and over again non-stop.

Check this out, totally insane: http://www.usdebtclock.org

Not only people follow the money, but they put people in debt, which will include later generations not being able to pay that off.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Not always, for when you go for money, others who want money will take your money and the cycle continues. Like an endless labyrinth that you go through over and over again non-stop.

On the expression: "Follow the Money"

I think you misunderstand the colloquial expression .... it might be better expressed as "Follow the "TRAIL" of where the money goes, and it will always lead you to the Truth. 

I cannot think of any time this is not true.

Another one I like is "When a man speaks of his honor and righteousness ... make him pay CASH (And check to see if it is counterfeit ... AND be prepared to shoot him when he tries to take it back).

There are those that are genuinely sorrowful when they rob you through deception ... but they do it anyway.

As Robert Ringer says in his self help book "Winning through Intimidation" ( which is really about how NOT to be intimidated yourself), there are only three types of people when money is part of the picture.

 

Winning Through Intimidation by Robert J. Ringer

The Theory of Reality:

Reality isn’t the way you wish things to be, or the way they appear to be, but the way they actually are. You either acknowledge reality and use it to your benefit, or it will automatically work against you.

Most people wish that business took place on a nursery school playground, with fairness being enforced. The reality is that the game of business is played in a vicious jungle.

 

1. Theory of Sustenance of a Positive Attitude Through the Assumption of a Negative Result

a. Prepare yourself for long-term success by being prepared for short-term failure

b. A person shouldn’t enter a sales situation feeling he can’t make the sale, but he should realistically assume that he won’t make the sale. If you’re prepared, then you’re able to feel confident that you are capable of making the sale if it is possible to be made. Hope for the best, but realistically assume the worst.

c. No matter how well prepared you are, only a small percentage of deals actually control, because there are an endless number of factors beyond your control.

d. Each negative result is an educational experience from which you can extract lessons learned, and then forget about the negative result.

2. Uncle George Theory

a. If you keep your nose to the grindstone and work long, hard hours, you’re guaranteed to get one thing in return: Old. Hard work will not, in and of itself, assure a person of success.

3. Theory of Relativity

a. Language is relative and subjective; you have to make sure that you define exactly what people’s statements really mean.

4. Theory of Relevance

a. The most important factor to consider is whether something is relevant to what you’re trying to accomplish. Work only on things that are relevant.

b. For example, the builder’s cost is irrelevant to a buyer. All the buyer cares about is cash flow. Also, whether or not a person is “honest” is irrelevant. What matters is what he puts down in writing.

5. Thirty Year Theory

a. You are going to die. Therefore, you should go after all you can get, as quickly as you can get it, because the reality is that your time is limited.

6. Ice Ball Theory

a. In 50 billion years, the sun will burn out and the Earth will be a frozen ice ball. Nothing you do now could possibly matter then. So don’t take yourself too seriously. Life is a game, and play to win. There’s no reason to be afraid to be aggressive or take chances. The reality is that there’s no way you’re going to get out of this thing alive, so why play conservatively.

7. Three Type Theory

a. There are only three types of people in the business world

i. Type 1: Lets you know that he’s out to get all of your chips. Then he tries to do just that.

ii. Type 2: Assures you that he’s not interested in getting your chips. Then he tries to grab all of your chips anyway.

iii. Type 3: Assures you that he’s not interested in getting your chips, and honestly means it. However, in the end, he tries to grab all of your chips anyway.

b. In business, no one ever does anything for anybody else without expecting to gain something in return.

8. Leapfrog Theory

a. A person has no legal or moral obligation or, for that matter, logical reason to “work his way up through the ranks.” The quickest way to the top is not by fighting your way through the pack, it is to leapfrog over the pack and simply proclaim that you’re above it. However, you must be prepared to be above it, or reality will knock you back down.

9. Theory of Intimidation

a. The problems most people have in reaching their objectives revolve around the fact that they constantly allow themselves to be intimidated.

b. The results a person obtains are inversely proportional to the degree to which he is intimidated.

10. Posture Theory

a. It’s not what you do or say that counts, but what your posture is when you say or do it. You need to maneuver yourself into a position of power.

11. Types of Power

a. Money: The ability to walk away—nice if you can get it

b. Image: The ability to prompt respect

c. Legal: The law, plus the Law of Universal Attorney-Attorney Respect. Always have everything in writing. Don’t be afraid to ask for it.

d. Performance: Be the best at what you do and deliver. Be fanatical about execution. This backs up your Image and Legal Power.

i. Don’t let anything get in the way of making the deal. If there are questions, dig out the answers yourself if necessary, rather than waiting for someone else to do it.

12. The 5 Steps of Sales Success

a. Obtain a product to sell

b. Locate a market for the product

c. Implement a marketing method

d. Be able to close the sale

e. GET PAID.

13. Generating Image Power

a. Ringer used a spectacular, expensive, hard-bound brochure to intimidate potential sellers.

b. Every interaction was designed to show the buyer or seller that they needed to sell Ringer on working on their deal

c. When he went to meet them, he brought along everything that he might need, from typewriters, to law books, to 2-3 secretaries—so that nothing could hold up the deal, and to intimidate the hell out of people.

14. Makeable Deal Theory

a. It’s more efficient to work hard on finding a few makeable deals, rather than working hard on an endless number of unmakeable deals and clinging to the faint hope that you’ll somehow close one. People have a masochistic tendency to work on “pie-in-the-sky” deals that have little possibility of closing.

15. Phrasing Matters

a. Don’t say, I can “sell” the property, say I can “do something” with the property.

b. Don’t call a contract a contract, call it a “one-page understanding.”

i. Try to avoid looking legal and attracting the attention of the Deal-Killing Attorney.

ii. Ringer would have a contract done and signed on the spot, rather than waiting and allowing time to pass.

16. Fiddle Theory

a. The longer a person fiddles around with something, the greater the odds that the result will be negative. Time is always against you when trying to make a deal—any kind of deal.

17. Boy-Girl Theory and Better Deal Theory

a. If boy plays it cool, then girl wants boy. If boy comes on like hungry dog chasing a squirrel, then girl doesn’t want boy. A man will usually want the deal he can’t have, and won’t want the deal he can have.

b. Before a person closes any kind of deal, he always worries that there may be a better deal down the road.

c. To combat the effect of these factors, bring the deal as quickly as possible to the point where the money is on the table and the papers are ready to be signed. Then it’s put up or shut up time.

i. Don’t let the speed depend on everyone else. If necessary, fly a secretary to the office to pick up the documents and hand deliver them.

ii. You MUST take matters into your own hands and move swiftly once you smell victory. At the crucial moment, the great quarterback takes control of the game.

18. Attorney Goal Line Defense

a. Attorneys are not subject to intimidation like normal people, but if you cower, they will smell blood and strike. Instead of being tough or humble, play it cool. Be calm and matter of fact. Adopt an air that indicates you have no concern over the deal, that everyone knew the deal would happen.

i. “Problems” don’t represent obstacles to the closing, but just normal “points” which had to be “handled” as a natural part of every deal.

ii. “That’s a darn good point. I’m glad you brought that up. Here are many ways we can handle that particular point.” The only reason all are gathered is to “handle” the normal “points” that always come up.

iii. As a last resort, indicate the willingness to walk away. “Well, I guess that’s it. It looks like we just can’t make this one happen.”

19. Dirty Laundry

a. There will almost always be several major undisclosed deal-killers that pop up at the 1-yard line. Soften the blow by setting expectations with the buyer ahead of time. That way, the dirty laundry reinforces your posture of expertise.

20. Bluff Theory

a. The best way to bluff is not to bluff. Wealthy people are good bluffers because when they threaten to walk away, they mean it. They can’t be intimidated.

b. If you’re not wealthy, the best substitute is guts. It’s more painful, but it works. Draw a clear line, and stick to it.

 

 

[Witness]

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Incorrect.

Thank you for your thoughts, and you made very good points; yet, I am not trying to prove that Jesus is God the Father.  I recognize him as the Savior and Son God sent us, and one He expects us to listen to.

“While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said: “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased. Listen to him!”  Matt 17:5

And if He wants our attention to be focused on His Son as our Savior, then, we should call on him.

“To the church of God at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called as saints, with all those in every place who call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord—both their Lord and ours.”  1 Cor 1:2

JWs cannot do this.  They cannot call on Christ since it is deemed “worship” – which, according to scripture, giving relative worship to Jesus is perfectly acceptable to God. 1 Cor 15:27,28  This is another alteration that the Wt. has succeeded in doing with the Bible, and the word “proskuneo”.  Jer 23:26; 2 Pet 3:16

Of course, Christians knew Jesus!  You stopped at Romans 10:13.  He then addresses the unbelief of Israel – God’s chosen nation - about the Christ, and proves to me that in the case of Rom 10:13,  “Lord” – “kyrios” refers to Jesus.

Rom 10:14 – 21:

 How, then, can they call on him they have not believed in?  And how can they believe without hearing about him? And how can they hear without a preacher? ¹⁵ And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. ¹⁶ But not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message? ¹⁷ So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ. ¹⁸ But I ask, “Did they not hear?”

Yes, they did:

Their voice has gone out to the whole earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.

¹⁹ But I ask, “Did Israel not understand?” First, Moses said,

I will make you jealous
of those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation
that lacks understanding.

²⁰ And Isaiah says boldly,

I was found
by those who were not looking for me;
I revealed myself
to those who were not asking for me.

²¹ But to Israel he says, All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and defiant people.”

Paul’s own experience of calling on the name of Jesus:

“Someone named Ananias, a devout man according to the law, who had a good reputation with all the Jews living there, ¹³ came and stood by me and said, ‘Brother Saul, regain your sight.’ And in that very hour I looked up and saw him. ¹⁴ And he said, ‘The God of our ancestors has appointed you to know his will, to see the Righteous One, and to hear the words from his mouth, ¹⁵ since you will be a witness for him to all people of what you have seen and heard. ¹⁶ And now, why are you delaying? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’  Acts 22:12-16 (Rev 20:4)

 “Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. ¹⁴ If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.^” John 14:13,14

Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear uses “me” in the word-for-word, but deletes it when translating it to the more readable version.  When asking Jesus anything in line with God’s will, which is calling on his name to do so, we then “listen to him” through his spiritual guidance.

As far as stewards – each anointed one is a steward of God’s Word to protect it and guard against falsehoods.

“A person should think of us in this way: as servants of Christ and managers of the mysteries of God. In this regard, it is required that managers be found faithful. It is of little importance to me that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I don’t even judge myself.”  1 Cor 4:1,2

Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent and empty speech and contradictions from what is falsely called knowledge. 1 Tim 6:20

This means exposing those who claim they are stewards, yet breathe wayward doctrine; new light that becomes empty speech and most certainly is falsely called, knowledge.  This is a conspiracy when a leader teaches falsehood, and later dismisses it without apology; further covering up their ignorance by blaming it on Christ for not feeding them “proper food”.  Acts 20:28-30; Matt 7:15-20; 2 Cor 10:3-5  You do know this, don't you?

Babylon, meaning confusion, which “new light” most certainly is; cannot be a physical place referenced in the symbolic book of Revelation, but a promise. Isa 28.  I realize you know quite a bit about the history of the Watchtower, and I believe part of its teachings.  However, you don’t know what it is to be a JW for over 30 years – to believe each and every doctrine that changes like a blown light bulb, and to be gullibly accepting of obedience to men; only to find out that it is a prophetic delusion used to mislead God’s authentic anointed people.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13: 1,5-7,11-18

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Thank you for your thoughts, and you made very good points; yet, I am not trying to prove that Jesus is God the Father.  I recognize him as the Savior and Son God sent us, and one He expects us to listen to.

“While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said: “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased. Listen to him!”  Matt 17:5

And if He wants our attention to be focused on His Son as our Savior, then, we should call on him.

Very well, but it still doesn't help you here, for you have said the following: It is the name of Jesus Christ that should be placed in Rom 10:13

For it is true and clear as to what is really means prior to translators changing it: everyone who calls on the name of the YHWH will be saved. Therefore, the JWs are not in error in regards to Romans 10:13, nor is anyone who restores YHWH to that verse, or those who know which "Lord" the verse is informing us about.

As for your other response: And if He wants our attention to be focused on His Son as our Savior, then, we should call on him.

Remember of what is said already: no one can come to Jehovah/Yahweh but through Jesus (John 14:6), and no other means has been given by Jehovah/Yahweh for salvation than the name of Jesus. (Acts 4:12). For believing in the Christ enables one to receive the gift of God's grace by means of his Son - the free and full forgiveness of sin(s) through Christ.

Also every knows why Jesus is called "Lord" already, so what the early Christians said in 1 Corinthians 1:2 is correct - for they too know that God has made the Christ Lord the very day he resurrected the Christ - hence why they thank God for the Christ, in addition to the words of Isaiah, for this verse connects to.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

JWs cannot do this.  They cannot call on Christ since it is deemed “worship” – which, according to scripture, giving relative worship to Jesus is perfectly acceptable to God. 1 Cor 15:27,28  This is another alteration that the Wt. has succeeded in doing with the Bible, and the word “proskuneo”.  Jer 23:26; 2 Pet 3:16

On the contrary they have, if you even took into account of what I just explained previously. proskuneo also means worship (http://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm), as well as obeisance, honor, reverence, homage, bow to/down to, etc. The very word that Cos, an Anti-JW around here, didn't get through his head, hence the heavy refuting to each of  his response drove him away from this section of the forums, in addition to hims caught lying, for him using John 8:44 backfired on him.

1 Corinthians 15 verses 27 and 28 does not imply of which you said in regards to the following: worship to Jesus is perfectly acceptable to God.

You must remember as to why God subjected all things to him, and also strongly remember of what God had said in regards to religiously worship and servitude him, don't add to God's word, friend for the very account those verses are under is in regards to The Resurrection of the Dead (Risen Christ).

Yes, we are to honor the Son, in turn honoring the Father, but as I told Cos before, taking away religious worship of the Father and doing such to the Son and he alone will only spell a not so pleasant response from God, for Jesus himself, he even taught it is God the Father we must worship, remember when you quoted the account of the Samaritan woman, same thing.

You really need to be careful.

In addition to that, verses 27 and 28 have several other verses that they connect to, which further disproves your claim.

For Jesus' response to Satan was clear as the blue sky and the sea: ‘You shall worship the Lord [YHWH] your God and him only shall you serve. - Matthew 4:10 (see Deuteronomy 5:9, 6:13, 10:20 and Luke 4:8).

That being said, when one considers "religious worship" be sure to know to whom you are showing this "religious worship" to. For the idea or practice of "religious worship" to God's Son, Jesus calls in the category of Arianism, which is still a belief that is practiced today.

You really have to be careful and not take the word proskuneo with a grain of salt, for better understanding of what that word means will make you very well aware of the word and how it is used in scripture and where it is used, for many translations tend to just throw the word "worship" everywhere proskuneo is even found. For such a word have several meanings, one of which includes the word worship.

 

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Of course, Christians knew Jesus!  You stopped at Romans 10:13.  He then addresses the unbelief of Israel – God’s chosen nation - about the Christ, and proves to me that in the case of Rom 10:13,  “Lord” – “kyrios” refers to Jesus.

Negative. I only focused on Romans 10:13 as well as other verses within chapter 10 - for you have stated the NWT was in error in regards to this verse, which is a false claim on your part. I have not ignored a book in the bible, nor have I ever done so in the decades of biblical study.

"Kyrios" does refer to Jesus, however, it also does refer to God the Father as well, as do others - scriptural facts prove this also.

Kyrios means Lord, which also relates to Sir, Master, Owner, etc.

David was the Lord (Kyrios) of Israel. So we see, for example, that Yahweh was the Lord of Israel and David was the Lord of Israel (1 Kings 1:36). The authority structure with God and Jesus is exactly the same. God made David the Lord of Israel and now God has made David's son Jesus the Lord of all the world. We would not assume that David is Yahweh because God had made him Lord.

Abraham is Sarah's Lord, so Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have grown old, and my Lord is old, shall I have pleasure?" (Genesis 18:12; see 1 Peter 3:9). Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him "Lord" (1 Peter 3:6).

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he arose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth, and said, "My Lords, turn aside, I pray you, to your servant's house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise up early and go on your way."

"Lords [Paul and Silas], what must I do to be saved? (Acts 16:31). There are numerous people in scripture who are called "Lord (Kyrios)." As we can see the word Kyrios isn't exclusive to Jesus or YHWH - but anyone can identity which "Lord" is which between the two.

For in regards to Romans 10:13, "Lord" is a directly referring to God the Father, not Jesus - for Jesus had already been mention as Lord a couple verses prior to verse 13 and the one who saves is indeed the Father, for his grace by means of his Son allows forgiveness of Sin.

Take a good look here: http://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Rom 10:14 – 21:

Again - The Message of Salvation to All. Believing and saying that Jesus, the Risen Christ is Lord and believing in the One [YHWH] who has raised him from out of death.

All of Romans 10 is based on the message of salvation that is for all, friend. Since you use bible gateway, you can see that for yourself clearly.

As for the other verses, I am well aware of what Paul has said, as also him affirming something that Jesus followed to the core while he was in his youth.

That being said, there is a big number of verses of which each verses has a connection to, with some pointing back to what I stated previously, thus such verses when read are harmoniously connected, as stated before.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

This means exposing those who claim they are stewards, yet breathe wayward doctrine; new light that becomes empty speech and most certainly is falsely called, knowledge.  This is a conspiracy when a leader teaches falsehood, and later dismisses it without apology; further covering up their ignorance by blaming it on Christ for not feeding them “proper food”.  Acts 20:28-30; Matt 7:15-20; 2 Cor 10:3-5  You do know this, don't you?

I suggest you re-check your verses. I am very well adept in scripture and what is and must be taught and the like, and know what is true and what is false. You are making a claims you will surely not cash, friend.

For falsehood can clearly be seen by sheer discernment and or what one prompting what is false is saying, assumption or taking the word of an Anti-Christian isn't the best route to go, for it clouds judgement and brings forth falsehood.

"The picking of bad fruits will reap the consequence of bad indigestion."

For the same can be said for taking in something and automatically clinging to it without understanding and or taking what is true, thus consequence follows suit in regards to one's blindness.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Babylon, meaning confusion, which “new light” most certainly is; cannot be a physical place referenced in the symbolic book of Revelation, but a promise. Isa 28.  I realize you know quite a bit about the history of the Watchtower, and I believe part of its teachings.  However, you don’t know what it is to be a JW for over 30 years – to believe each and every doctrine that changes like a blown light bulb, and to be gullibly accepting of obedience to men; only to find out that it is a prophetic delusion used to mislead God’s authentic anointed people.  2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 13: 1,5-7,11-18

I do not know quite a bit, I am very well aware of who they are, what they teach, what is their belief, etc. I have spent a 5+ years understanding their faith, as with others such as other denominations as well as the likes of Islam and Judaism, as well as mainstream Christianity, the real Babylon to true faith in scripture. Unlike taking into account of YouTube videos made by obvious opponents of the JWs, I actually speak to them for quite some time to understand their view of scripture., and with enough study and the like, I understand of where they are coming from, for they are among those who are doing whatever it takes not only to imitate Jess' example but strive to do what the scriptures say no matter what.

You can bring up whatever claim you wish, for what has been posted before is usually one sided, but I can assure you, there is more than enough proof, that puts most Christians on their side in seeking truth than against them.

You'd be amazed of how some of their opponents will even want to end Christianity in the US just to get rid of JWs, it is a brutal threat, and it has been said before prior to their ban in Russia, with some who retaliate saying if such was done to them in the US, it will spell disaster to Christianity as a whole in America.

It is also another reason why most of us remain totally, 100% neutral with JWs - because we know by scripture of how God views our actions, and inciting, prompting, taking part, being part of, Christian infighting, persecution, conspiracy against such faith will spell disaster for us in the End Times.

This is why even at the CSE Christian community, attacking their doctrine, speaking bad about them, and the like will only cause the JW opponent to be warned and or kicked out - for such attitude is Un-Christian, and it is unacceptable.

That being said, one understanding the bible and or the scriptures, history too, over time, does not reflect a change in doctrine, an example would be that JWs, in the Bible Student Era once celebrated Christmas, until later on they gain knowledge through study and knew off the bat that Christmas isn't to be celebrated, thus how JWs are today with such holiday and or any Holiday for that matter, for the only thing they celebrate is the Memorial of the Christ. Over time, other Christians have followed suit, and I have posted this already to that Swihii guy on this forum, which you yourself have known this since you made comment on that same thread.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear uses “me” in the word-for-word, but deletes it when translating it to the more readable version.  When asking Jesus anything in line with God’s will, which is calling on his name to do so, we then “listen to him” through his spiritual guidance.

Friend, you really need to study Greek, do not make the mistake as most mainstream Christians make. "me" or "my" in Greek is μοῦ (mou) Greek Strong's #3450. It also relates to "I", "me", "mine" "own", "my" (The simpler form of emou [of me]). μοῦ used in that verse (John 14:13 and also 14), so them revising it isn't all that of a major issue, unless you do not understand Greek or Strong's or if the JWs took out the Strong's entirely for a different word. Another thing to take into account is "me" also equals to another word in Greek, μέ (me) Greek Strong's #3165 which relates to  "I", "me ", "my" (A shorter (and probably originally) from of eme [me]). For both μοῦ and μέ are basically identical and both have been used many, many times in scripture.

http://biblehub.com/greek/3450.htm

http://biblehub.com/greek/3165.htm

Other Strong's I will add here so you can better understand:

Emou (ἐμοῦ) Greek Strong's #1700 - http://biblehub.com/greek/1700.htm

Eme (ἐμέ) Greek Strong's #1691 - http://biblehub.com/greek/1691.htm

egó (ἐγώ) Greek Strong's #1473 - http://biblehub.com/greek/1473.htm

There are several others that are identical also.

14:13  καὶ ὅ τι ἂν αἰτήσητε ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου τοῦτο ποιήσω ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁπατὴρ ἐν τῷ υἱῷ

14:14  ἐάν τι αἰτήσητέ ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί μου ἐγὼ ποιήσω

14:15  Ἐὰν ἀγαπᾶτέ με τὰς ἐντολὰς τὰς ἐμὰς τηρήσατε

Jehovah's Witnesses Interlinear Bible Translation in Quote:

Quote

¹³ καὶand ὅτιwhatἂνlikelyαἰτήσητεYOU should askἐνinτῷtheὀνόματίnameμουof meτοῦτοthisποιήσω,I will do,ἵναin order thatδοξασθῇmight be glorifiedὁtheπατὴρFatherἐνinτῷtheυἱῷ·Son; ¹⁴ ἐάνif ever τιanythingαἰτήσητέYOU should askμεmeἐνinτῷtheὀνόματίnameμουof meτοῦτοthisποιήσω.I shall do.¹⁵ ᾿ΕὰνIf ever ἀγαπᾶτέYOU may be lovingμε,me,τὰςtheἐντολὰςcommandmentsτὰςtheἐμὰςmineτηρήσετε·

Other Interlinear versions:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/14.htm

http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/john/14.html

http://www.gospel-john.com/greek/chapter-14.html

Note: Some Interlinear versions will remove the word, delete, completely instead of using anything from the Strong's or the manuscript. Reason: Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus (among others)

The Link below has several versions of this verse (it shows you literally everything, even the vulgate), I will quote for both verses 13 and 14

http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm

John 14:13 - http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm#V13

John 14:14 - http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm#V14

John 15:15 - http://www.greeknewtestament.com/B43C014.htm#V15

several more, but I will limit it to these two, you get the idea (the section like you can click on John 14 verses 13, 14 and or 15 and it will direct you to the verse instead of scrolling down entirely.)

So if the JWs were wrong with their Interlinear, they those who wrote the Septuagint are in fault, the very high regarded source of which the Bible and the scriptures within the Bible originates from.

But anyways, anyone who translates and or revives will take into account for what the Strong's say, and will place what they see fit in the translations, as long as it equals exactly to what the Strong's word means.

Your claim of them being in error, is false - especially if the Strong's is accessible to the public who is even aware of such information - Ancient Greek.

All in all, technically, it isn't a deletion of the word, unless you remove it 100% and or replace it with something other than what the Strong's or the manuscripts says.

So therefore, the The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures from the Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses isn't in error.

For you have a clear look at ALL the translations who base the scripture and or verse on the Septuagint and you can see who has it right quite easily.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

As far as stewards – each anointed one is a steward of God’s Word to protect it and guard against falsehoods.

I already made comment to that of which you did not mention. Stewards among the Christian faith are those with duties of a stewardship, those who take seriousness and high consideration in the spreading of the gospel, as well as teaching it -  Shepherds to Flock, Disciple to Student, Teacher to Pupil etc. Jesus speaks  of prophecy concerning the end days and tribulations, he speaks of those who are to help in this work, those taking lead in spreading the gospel, who serves as stewards for him, a manager over the household of faith.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

You really need to be careful.

This is all I will comment on:

For Jesus' response to Satan was clear as the blue sky and the sea: ‘You shall worship the Lord [YHWH] your God and him only shall you serve. - Matthew 4:10 (see Deuteronomy 5:9, 6:13, 10:20 and Luke 4:8).

Who was listening to this conversation?  Only Jesus and Satan were involved, and Jesus was reminding Satan who HE should worship.  Jesus obviously worships the Father.    This does not take away relative worship due Christ by mankind.

Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” ³⁶ He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”³⁷ And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” ³⁸ Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.  John 9:35-38

Did Jesus stop him?  No.  You mentioned somewhere here, that you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible.  Now, it appears you are leaning on the NWT when it suits you.  I find that rather interesting.

 Heb 1:6 - But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Others will be “worshiped” as well.   Rev 3:9

I do not want to think that the glory of the Christ is hidden from you, as it is from JWs.  But, it appears to be.  Luke 9:28,29; 2 Pet 1:17,18; John 1:14; 17:1-5

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Who was listening to this conversation?  Only Jesus and Satan were involved, and Jesus was reminding Satan who HE should worship.  Jesus obviously worships the Father.    This does not take away relative worship due Christ by mankind.

Yes, but what you need to pay attention to is what Jesus said prior to his words, of what he is quoting from "It is Written" For the very law itself of which Jesus quoted is in the Hebrew Old Testament, the Tanakh, but specifically in the Torah, of which a majority of the laws of which every born Jew followed from their youth into adulthood, and into their elderly life.

Majority of Christians, even a few newbie Jehovah's Witnesses, tend to not be aware of such things, and when one becomes aware of this, they recognize that Jesus, was a born Jew under the law, and I have said this before, and I will quote what the Law met to Jesus.

For if the people knew God and they knew the Christ, they know of whom they are to religiously worship with total and exclusive devotion, for God not only said this, for it is, again embedded in the Torah.

The law was ridiculously important to Jesus and when he quotes, speaks of the law, he means it.

Galatians 4:4 reads: But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law (see Matthew 5:17)

In addition to that, in the Greek New Testament, Jesus conversed with scribes, and he spoke of the law, in regards to the commandants in the gospel of Mark, which what Jesus speaks of what is written is straight out of the Torah.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?” ^36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”^37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.” ^38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.  John 9:35-38

Again proskuneos, for even in other translations, to bow down, to worship, to honor, pay homage, show reverence, adorn, etc. as I said before on this word.

The man did not bow down to show an act of religious worship, he showed an act of reverence to the Son of Man, for if he religiously worshiped Jesus then it would destroyed what was written entirely of the very laws of which the Jews had followed since the days of Moses - if the Son is standing before them, surely they wouldn't do such, turning away from religiously worshiping him over the God of Israel, the Father of the very man who has been sent.

If you had Jesus on your left side, and Yahweh/Jehovah on your right side, to whom you show worship in terms of ,adoration, reverence, homage, honor to and to whom you show religiously exclusive worship, great praise, servitude to?

The answer would be quite obvious, but anyways, John 9 will not do you much, for majority of Christians agree that proskuneos has several meanings, and that it should not be abused to support the doctrine of religious Jesus worship instead of God the Father.

For Yahweh/Jehovah is the Father of our Lord and Savior and a number of times Jesus even said it clearly that Yahweh is indeed his God and his Father.

John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Did Jesus stop him?  No.  You mentioned somewhere here, that you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible.  Now, it appears you are leaning on the NWT when it suits you.  I find that rather interesting.

You can't be serious... That is one of the oldest tricks some Christians will pull to justify something - in this case, devoted religious worship to Jesus instead of the Father, Yahweh.I wouldn't say if they stopped him or not, for if you understood how translators did this, they fit proskuneo with worship, and those who do not see scripture or put themselves in the mindset of those who lived in those days, they will easily confuse themselves, identifying the word worship in regards to religious worship. This was the same case in Luke chapter 24 (more detailed in Acts 1), with Pentecost taking place in Acts 2.

And no, the NWT isn't the only one who uses other words that reflect proskuneos, let's not be hypocritical here. I have listed about several bibles in another thread in regards to proskuneos, and I will gladly re-post them here.

John 9:38

Twentieth Century New Testament (TCNT)-1898-1901

Then, Sir, I do believe," said the man, bowing to the ground before him;

Good News Translation (GNT)- [1966-1976]

"I believe, Lord!" the man said, and knelt down before Jesus.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (ABP)- 1905-1997

But he said, “I believe, my Lord”, and falling down, he worshiped him.

God's Word Translation (GWT)- [1995]

The man bowed in front of Jesus and said, "I believe, Lord."

Douay-Rheims Bible (DRB)-[1582] 

And he said: I believe, Lord. And falling down, he adored him.

Darby Bible Translation (DBT)- [1867, with revised editions in 1872 and 1884]

And he said, I believe, Lord: and he did him homage.

Weymouth New Testament (WNT)- [1903]

"I believe, Sir," he said. And he threw himself at His feet.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)- [1862]

and he said, 'I believe, sir,' and bowed before him.

For the sake of the verse, I will post what it says in the NWT

New World Translation (NWT)- [1984, revised 2013]

He said: “I do put faith in him, Lord.” And he did obeisance to him.

The list goes on, literally, in addition to those who put proskuneos in its place and or reverence, etc within said translations.

For there are a lot of bible translations that will put worship and a lot more that will use a word that is related to proskuneos, but the question is where to use it, the right place to use it, etc, for a word placed in the wrong spot can easily shift false belief, examples like 1 Timothy 3:16, 1 John 5:7-8, etc.

No verse, no matter the translation ever states that the man religiously gave devoted worship to Jesus, for the man simply did an act of proskuneos, be it honor, worship, obeisance, bowing down/to, homage, reverence, etc. That being said, I will not waste time putting information from both Hebraic and Greek Theologians and scholars on that word, for it is easily understood if one puts him or herself in the mindset of those in ancient days.

Facts: in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication 

????????? (proskyne?/proskuneó) Greek Strong's #4352 - Short Definition: I worship Definition: I go down on my knees to, do obeisance to, worship.

bow down (1), bow down before (1), bowed down (1), bowed down before (2), bowing before (1), bowing down (1), prostrated himself before (1), worship (32), worshiped (17), worshipers (1), worshiping (1), worships (1) from pros and kuneó (to kiss).

Not really, I do not adhere to the KJV nor do I adhere to the NKJV (or any bible  that considers it's falsehood biblical canon, in addition to those that preach that uninspired verses are true), you'd be wise by now to know how I view such bibles, for I rely on bibles that stick to the oldest and most reliable sources possible, for the KJV and the NKJV stems far from this. For if anyone had noticed, I post more from the ESV bible in majority of my comments, sometimes from other translations, but most of the time, ESV.

For you even seen my post towards Allen about Textual Criticism in regards to Mark 16, for 1-8 being inspired while verses 9-20 not being inspired, for such verses originated from the KJV translators, and such verses are nowhere to be found in the oldest source, reasons why some bibles today omitted such verses, and or restore some verses to its true meaning.

You claim just now, assuming that I said the following: you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible

KJV/NKJV? Accurate??? Never...

I welcome you to find where I said that and post it here, for everyone here knows my view of bible translations, what I use, and my strong opinions against the KJV/NKJV hence biblical hermeneutics and Textual Criticism scriptural facts, verse connection, and how important it is to stick to the oldest and most reliable source possible.

 

As for religious worship and total servitude to God the Father:

Exodus 20:3 - “You shall have no other gods before me.

Exodus 34:14 - (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

Deuteronomy 4:24 - For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Isaiah 42:8 - I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Matthew 4:10 - Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Luke 4:8 - And Jesus answered him, “It is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”

Mark 12:28-33 (speak of the Law found in the Torah/OT; Shema Ysirael in addition to the commandments)

Laws found in the Torah (it is written)

The Shema - Deuteronomy 6:4-13

Deuteronomy 6:13 (included in the Shema Yisrael) - It is the Lord your God you shall fear. Him you shall serve and by his name you shall swear.

Deuteronomy 10:20 - You shall fear the Lord your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Heb 1:6 - But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:“Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Others will be “worshiped” as well.   Rev 3:9

Jesus' exaltation, God making him Lord, giving him the name above every other name, putting Jesus at his right hand (as said in psalms 110:1), etc.

I mean, the very title of this chapter by this writer in the NT even states the following - The Supremacy of God's Son

Proskuneos is proskuneos, for none of the angels were ever told to religiously worship Jesus with total devotion.

I refuted Cos on this weeks ago: 

 

2 hours ago, Witness said:

I do not want to think that the glory of the Christ is hidden from you, as it is from JWs.  But, it appears to be.  Luke 9:28,29; 2 Pet 1:17,18; John 1:14; 17:1-5

Negative, friend, Jesus isn't hidden from me because half the things I even said isn't being read by you, and every word and every post I make is 100% fact and true, especially in regards to scripture - and you assuming I said something which I have not said is a big error is , for a guy like me who has been against the errors in the KJV/NKJV since childhood, I would never turn my back and say such uninspired verses used in that bible is accurate, nor would I preach it as some do, or in this case, I would never state that such a bible is 100% for its practice of mixing inspired with uninspired to blind the masses, but here, no such words of me saying it is accurate is ever typed by me, for my view of the KJV/NKJV borderline Nazareth Vow levels, so to speak, if you know what that is.

Anyways, I can easily correct how those last couple of verses you just posted without even taking into consideration of what they connect to, but I will spare you this time - unless you misuse verses and or mixing verses that do not connect with each other, or connecting things from scripture be it OT or NT when in reality they do not connect, which is some, for this goes for anyone. And knowing myself and experiences, I know what is true and what is false, and those who practice close to what is true vs those who adhere to what is false.

For if Christ is hidden from me, I would not have been able to correct your wrongs, your errors, and the like, but if Christ is truly with you and you said I claim the NKJV is accurate, and I quote: You mentioned somewhere here, that you felt the NKJV was the more accurate choice of translation of the Bible.  Now, it appears you are leaning on the NWT when it suits you.  I find that rather interesting. - Witness

I want you to be truthful about your words, to yourself, to everyone here, to Jesus, and to God the Father, who all are witnesses here and I want you to give direct proof of me saying that such things - if you cannot, then it is evident of whom Christ is truly hidden from.

Do not expect to take parts of what I said and make it seem as I said such things, for I can easily pull up my comments from my history. I can tell you right now straight up, I do have a few typos elsewhere, but never would I acknowledge the KJV or the NKJV to be accurate, as you claim.