Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.

[JOHN BUTLER]

I cannot understand why there is only partial information concerning the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society Child Abuse accusations from around the Earth. I have just put a status on my FB page saying that : The one thing I have learnt in life is, that I don't know the truth about anything".  The reason for this is that there is always some doubt about things read 'online'. Are they true ? Does one want them to be true? Are my opinions correct?   So with that in mind I will continue with the information I 'have read online'. 

We all know that Child Abuse and Sexual Abuse accusations are, or appear to be 'in fashion' right now. In politics, in entertainment, and in religion. But Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be 'no part of the world', that is the 'world' that belongs to Satan the Devil. So it would come as a surprise then that from top to bottom the JW's are being accused of Child Abuse Earthwide. 

What I've noted so far : The Australian Royal Commission did a three year investigation into the JW org, most of which is available online to read. They found that since 1950 there were 1006 accusations of Child Abuse within the Australian branch of Jehovah's Witnesses, none of which were reported to the police or secular authorities........... In Canada there have been large court cases in Quebec and Ontario againse JW org..... A $66 million lawsuit against the religion's leadership is taking place.....  In the Netherlands 'Reclaimed Voices' foundation have set up emergency phone lines and have put out advertisements concerning victims of abuse within the JW org there. The 'hotline' had received 80 replies as of December 28th 2017..... In the UK (where I am) the Charity Commision set up an inquiry into the UK branch of Jehovah's Witnesses regarding child abuse / sexual abuse. I think this started with the Manchester New Molton congregation in 2014. The Charity Commision also set up an inquiry into the Watchtower Soc (WTBTS) here in the UK. In Feb 2016. The Org went to court to try to block the investigations but failed. A former elder from South Wales said there was instructions to elders to destroy all documents regarding child abuse. There seemed to be a cost to the Org of over £1 million which I presume is court fines and payouts. 

Then of course we have the USA. In 2014 a $10.5 million lawsuit against JW Org by Valicia Alston and others. In 2015 the Candace Conti case against Jonathan Kendrick. And in April 2016 the Watchtower Soc' remained defiant in refusing to hand over documents about the Child Abuse in the USA branch of the JW Org.  Now it seems (and remember I'm only going on what I've read) that the JW Org in USA sent out a letter in 1997, to all elders of congregations in the USA. The letter was a direct instruction to the elders to send in ALL documents and information concerning accusations of Child Abuse / Sexual abuse both current and passed. This was to be an ongoing instruction and all information was to be sent in special blue envelopes to Brooklyn. Now there are approx' 14,000 congregations in the USA, and the time period from 1997 to 2017 is of course 20 years. So it would seem that the Governing Body have 20 years worth of accusations concerning Child Abuse and Sexual abuse with in it's USA congregations. However, despite court action and direct instruction to the JW Org / Watchtower Soc', the W/T and JW Org still refuse to hand over the documents to the High court. In November 2017 a High court of California fined the JW Org / WT Soc'  $4,000 per day for not handing over the documents, and it seems the cost so far to the Org / WT is more than           $2 million. I cannot find out if any of this money has been paid or is still owing. 

One other point that I found interesting (providing it's true of course) is that the Governing Body has deliberately separated the JW Org, known as the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Each of these now has its own Legal Department. The purpose of this is to slow down all court proceedings because the Legal Dept from one has to write to the Legal Dept of the other for information, then the legal Dept of the other refuses such information etc. This is what caused the Supreme Court of California to impose the heavy fines on the Org. Basically the court got fed up with the 'clowning around of the JW Org.  

So to sum up: It seems that many countries, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, UK and USA, have found and proved many cases of child abuse / sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society. But what makes this worse is that the Governing Body of the Org' is deliberately withholding  the information about pedophiles within its ranks. Add to this that elders of congregations Earthwide are instructed not to inform their congregations about pedophiles within their congregation. And, congregation members are told not to report child abuse / sexual abuse within the congregations, to the Police or outside secular organisations. On top of this victims are not believed, because the Governing Body has made a rule that says there must be two witnesses to any accusation of abuse, which of course will not happen in the case of Child abuse or Sexual abuse.

About me : I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses until about a month ago.  After doing approx three months research online my conscience would no longer allow me to remain within the Organisation. How could I encourage other people to join an Organisation that allows Child Abuse /Sexual Abuse to continue unreported and unpunished within its ranks. There could be a pedophile within the congregation that I was part of, I would never know, because the Elders would keep it secret.... However, I do believe in God, whether His name is Jehovah, Yahweh or something else, and I am keeping my mind open as to how I will find the 'truth' of God's requirements. 

What i am hoping for is that some BIG media source will bring all the information together concerning all the Child Abuse / Sexual Abuse accusations against the Jehovah's Witnesses Org' and the Watchtower Soc' Earthwide, so that all info' is readily available to everyone. At the moment it all seems so 'bitty' and not organised. Yes there is info' online, but are the sources trustworthy. What is needed is a neutral unemotional factual report, please. 

[Matthew9969]

On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:32 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

I cannot understand why there is only partial information concerning the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society Child Abuse accusations from around the Earth. I have just put a status on my FB page saying that : The one thing I have learnt in life is, that I don't know the truth about anything".  The reason for this is that there is always some doubt about things read 'online'. Are they true ? Does one want them to be true? Are my opinions correct?   So with that in mind I will continue with the information I 'have read online'. 

We all know that Child Abuse and Sexual Abuse accusations are, or appear to be 'in fashion' right now. In politics, in entertainment, and in religion. But Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be 'no part of the world', that is the 'world' that belongs to Satan the Devil. So it would come as a surprise then that from top to bottom the JW's are being accused of Child Abuse Earthwide. 

What I've noted so far : The Australian Royal Commission did a three year investigation into the JW org, most of which is available online to read. They found that since 1950 there were 1006 accusations of Child Abuse within the Australian branch of Jehovah's Witnesses, none of which were reported to the police or secular authorities........... In Canada there have been large court cases in Quebec and Ontario againse JW org..... A $66 million lawsuit against the religion's leadership is taking place.....  In the Netherlands 'Reclaimed Voices' foundation have set up emergency phone lines and have put out advertisements concerning victims of abuse within the JW org there. The 'hotline' had received 80 replies as of December 28th 2017..... In the UK (where I am) the Charity Commision set up an inquiry into the UK branch of Jehovah's Witnesses regarding child abuse / sexual abuse. I think this started with the Manchester New Molton congregation in 2014. The Charity Commision also set up an inquiry into the Watchtower Soc (WTBTS) here in the UK. In Feb 2016. The Org went to court to try to block the investigations but failed. A former elder from South Wales said there was instructions to elders to destroy all documents regarding child abuse. There seemed to be a cost to the Org of over £1 million which I presume is court fines and payouts. 

Then of course we have the USA. In 2014 a $10.5 million lawsuit against JW Org by Valicia Alston and others. In 2015 the Candace Conti case against Jonathan Kendrick. And in April 2016 the Watchtower Soc' remained defiant in refusing to hand over documents about the Child Abuse in the USA branch of the JW Org.  Now it seems (and remember I'm only going on what I've read) that the JW Org in USA sent out a letter in 1997, to all elders of congregations in the USA. The letter was a direct instruction to the elders to send in ALL documents and information concerning accusations of Child Abuse / Sexual abuse both current and passed. This was to be an ongoing instruction and all information was to be sent in special blue envelopes to Brooklyn. Now there are approx' 14,000 congregations in the USA, and the time period from 1997 to 2017 is of course 20 years. So it would seem that the Governing Body have 20 years worth of accusations concerning Child Abuse and Sexual abuse with in it's USA congregations. However, despite court action and direct instruction to the JW Org / Watchtower Soc', the W/T and JW Org still refuse to hand over the documents to the High court. In November 2017 a High court of California fined the JW Org / WT Soc'  $4,000 per day for not handing over the documents, and it seems the cost so far to the Org / WT is more than           $2 million. I cannot find out if any of this money has been paid or is still owing. 

One other point that I found interesting (providing it's true of course) is that the Governing Body has deliberately separated the JW Org, known as the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Each of these now has its own Legal Department. The purpose of this is to slow down all court proceedings because the Legal Dept from one has to write to the Legal Dept of the other for information, then the legal Dept of the other refuses such information etc. This is what caused the Supreme Court of California to impose the heavy fines on the Org. Basically the court got fed up with the 'clowning around of the JW Org.  

So to sum up: It seems that many countries, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, UK and USA, have found and proved many cases of child abuse / sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society. But what makes this worse is that the Governing Body of the Org' is deliberately withholding  the information about pedophiles within its ranks. Add to this that elders of congregations Earthwide are instructed not to inform their congregations about pedophiles within their congregation. And, congregation members are told not to report child abuse / sexual abuse within the congregations, to the Police or outside secular organisations. On top of this victims are not believed, because the Governing Body has made a rule that says there must be two witnesses to any accusation of abuse, which of course will not happen in the case of Child abuse or Sexual abuse.

About me : I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses until about a month ago.  After doing approx three months research online my conscience would no longer allow me to remain within the Organisation. How could I encourage other people to join an Organisation that allows Child Abuse /Sexual Abuse to continue unreported and unpunished within its ranks. There could be a pedophile within the congregation that I was part of, I would never know, because the Elders would keep it secret.... However, I do believe in God, whether His name is Jehovah, Yahweh or something else, and I am keeping my mind open as to how I will find the 'truth' of God's requirements. 

What i am hoping for is that some BIG media source will bring all the information together concerning all the Child Abuse / Sexual Abuse accusations against the Jehovah's Witnesses Org' and the Watchtower Soc' Earthwide, so that all info' is readily available to everyone. At the moment it all seems so 'bitty' and not organised. Yes there is info' online, but are the sources trustworthy. What is needed is a neutral unemotional factual report, please. 

I am glad to hear that you are not willing to give up on God. Many who find out the truth about the organization, that it is not Gods organization turn to anger and hatred toward religion and abandon God altogether. Here is a support site for believers leaving the jw religion: http://www.4jehovah.org/

[Space Merchant]

Civil authorities, law enforcement and the like will always be called if criminal activity is suspected, for example, if there's been an accusation of child molestation or anything pertaining to the abuse of child and or in other cases should anything happen to even adults, i.e. a man wielding a machete trying/attempting to access a church or someone armed with a gun trying to break inside a church with people inside, etc. They are far better equipped to decide what if any physical evidence and exculpatory evidence exists in determining the merits of the charges and what consequences should follow if such charges can be provably established and or set in place as for my examples, on how to deal with the situation at hand, preparation beforehand, safety, and the like. Not everyone who goes into a church or trying to access a church wants to hear a gospel of some sort, they come for "other" reasons, which can effect both children and adults, be it minor, disruptive, or something majority, tragic in nature, as we have seen already several months ago.

Usually, when people say such things of some groups and then are asked for proof, they almost always link you to hoards reports and or state lacking evidence to such; full of unproven accusations exclusively levied by ex-members, but that is probably the point, to beat the courts and the public into submission by saturation. 

Regarding JWs or Watchtower, there's the ARC (Australian Royal Commission) since you brought them up, they are accustomed to parroting the number 1,006 unreported (or covered up) so called persons who practice pedophilia. If the ARC had taken action accordingly,  the actual investigation in question, they would have long known that about 492 cases were reported by someone, or lacked sufficient evidence to warrant a report well before 2017 of March, when they were forced to acknowledged that they were wrong about the 1,006, but it would seem that anything to put the group in a negative limelight, 1,006 sounds much better. 

The ARC also acknowledged that between 2015 of August and 2017 of March, only 17 reports of child abuse emerged within the Watchtower group in Australia, two of which declined to report. 

So yes, the watchtower historically has and will probably continue to deal with child abuse within its ranks, but that’s not because of how they handle this or that or how they attempt to do things, it is because of this world we happen to live in where such an desire of being attracted to children exist, and if one cannot see that pedophilia is an issue with persons on a psychological level, than you do not know the world that you are a temporary resident in.

Pedophilia is all over, even us Unitarians are subjected to this, one of the Unitarian denominations had a pastor arrested in speaking to children online, having child pornography, and even threatening children online, saying he was going to or wanting to kill them, etc. Did it stop people from following a faith? Not so much.

As a Christian, we know that there is good people, and there is bad people in this imperfect world, the good will do what they can, but the bad will roam among the good and will always have an intent to do bad, lack of any care or shred of showing repentance for their treacherous heart has overtaken them, and they are eaten up whole by their ill-desires.

That being said, a church, a school, a business will handle things how they see fit, it is up to you to take things a step further if such groups handle things on their end, internally, that is why most of them advise you, yourself to contact the authorities. Even at times, even friends, depending on the person, who do not want to be put into the public view will advise the same thing and or handle the situation for you themselves, everyone different (for Bystander effect/syndrome is a real thing even in the realm of child abuse, not doing anything at all, so to speak).

You'd be surprised how those who analyze everything accordingly will say in their own response, yet they are, as always, attacked by an angry mob for it, then you have the Anti-Religion, who consider this a win regardless of what you tell them.

 

On 2/12/2018 at 8:32 AM, Matthew9969 said:

I am glad to hear that you are not willing to give up on God. Many who find out the truth about the organization, that it is not Gods organization turn to anger and hatred toward religion and abandon God altogether. Here is a support site for believers leaving the jw religion: http://www.4jehovah.org/

Child abuse is everywhere and so is pedophilia, you and all people should know every man, every woman, every child, is and will always be imperfect until God changes that when the day comes for his Son to return to earth. For such things will not stop someone from following their faith whether you like it or not because Christians are aware of the times they live in. JWs are subjected to this, as well as any church, school, organization, business, child programs, etc. Also, it is something to note, that it is evident that some of these places tend to deal with the problem internally, at times do call for outside help, depending on the situation, the person looking into the situation, etc.

The desire to or be attract to children is an actual sickness, for some claim the origin of such appears at one's birth and develops overtime, for such is even a poison that effects Christians or newly converts who hide such a sickening desire.

[JOHN BUTLER]

Space Merchant, you are entitled to your opinion of course. I disagree with you. I was not only talking about the Royal Australian Commision, but also Canada, The Netherlands, UK and USA. And what about the countries that are not bothered about looking into such things ?  I really do dread to think what the Earthwide scale of child abuse is like within the JW Org. And why have the Governing Body of JW /WT gone against the law of the land in the USA by refusing to hand over the documents relating to child abuse accusations in America ? The scriptures say to obey the law of the land as long as it does not conflict with God's laws. I'm sure God would be happier to have JW Org cleared of pedophiles and cleared of accusations of child abuse. Plus it seems to be costing the Org $4,000 per day in fines which it seems amounts to over $2 million by now. In my opinion that money does not belong to the Governing Body to waste in that way. It would have been money donated to help with the Earthwide work of spreading 'the God's news of God's Kingdom'... And to say that child abuse / pedophilia is everywhere is just a very poor excuse. Now please read this carefully. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I believed that the JW Org / Watchtower Soc' 'was 'no part of the world'. I believed that the Org was completely separate from the 'world'. I based this thinking on Jesus' words that He was no part of the world and that His followers / disciples would be no part of the world. Hence when you and others compare JW Org to other organisations / religions /  bodies of people, it makes no sense to me. My point being, if God was using the JW Org for His own purposes, to educate people of 'all tribes and nations', to bring people together Earthwide into an ARK like situation, as an Organisation of people that would be saved through Armageddon, then why would God allow His Org to be so contaminated by disgusting behavior ? Jesus said the religious leaders in Jerusalem were like Whitewashed Graves, clean on the outside but full of dead men's bones. Is it then so with the JW Org ? The Governing Body of JW Org call themselves 'the faithful and discreet slave'. Note I say that they call themselves by that title. Whereas the scripture says 'Who really is the faithful and discreet slave'. Surely only God will decide who is, and God's decision would surely be made on the 'works' of those ones. If, as it seems, the Governing Body is hiding pedophiles within the Org', then surely they cannot be doing what God wants them to be doing.. You see my approach is trying very hard to be unemotional but practical..... If God has a purpose for mankind and for His creation this planet Earth,  then surely God would have an organisation to use, so as to tell everyone that will listen, about God's purposes and requirements.  God had Noah and his family build the Ark to carry them through the destruction of the early world. God had Moses lead His people from Egypt and through the Red Sea. God had his rules and regulations written down for the Nation of Israel. God had His religious leaders in Israel to offer up the sacrifices for the people. So it seems that God has always been organised and has always shown His people the right direction to go in. Doing so God has also kept His people away from the people of the 'world'. In fact God punished His people when they mixed with the people of the 'world' and when they practise false religion. So, now, surely God has a special Organisation of His own ? The question I'm asking is, is it Organisation Jehovah's Witnesses or not? Because if it is then it needs cleaning out very much. If it isn't then God needs to show people clearly whom He is using..... Space Merchant I can see we disagree on much. On religious beliefs as well as on the JW Org's methods of doing things. One of the biggest problems within the JW Org's 'methods' seems to be, or have been, that people were told NOT TO report child abuse to the police or outside authorities. So if nothing is reported then the police etc know nothing, hence nothing gets done.  It seems to have been left to the Elders of the congregation to act, and if the person being accused is an Elder then it seems (and is quite possibly so) that the other Elders take the side of that Elder and dismiss the accusation. Another point that the Org uses is a scripture, which I'm sure was never meant to be used in this way, which says that a person must have two witnesses to any accusation for it to be investigated. Now it would seem almost impossible for a child to have two witnesses stood by whilst they are being sexually abused by someone else. And I don't think it is a legal requirement in a court of law to have two witnesses that directly saw it happen, it's only a rule within the JW Org.  One last point, as this is getting too  long for one comment.  The Elders are told to keep it a secret if there is a pedophile / known child abuser within it's congregation. Hence members of the congregation do not know if there is someone like that within their congregation. but enough for now. We are looking at JW Org from totally different viewpoints so will not agree on things. Have a good day. 

[Space Merchant]

7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Space Merchant, you are entitled to your opinion of course. I disagree with you. I was not only talking about the Royal Australian Commision, but also Canada, The Netherlands, UK and USA. And what about the countries that are not bothered about looking into such things ?  I really do dread to think what the Earthwide scale of child abuse is like within the JW Org. And why have the Governing Body of JW /WT gone against the law of the land in the USA by refusing to hand over the documents relating to child abuse accusations in America ? The scriptures say to obey the law of the land as long as it does not conflict with God's laws. I'm sure God would be happier to have JW Org cleared of pedophiles and cleared of accusations of child abuse. Plus it seems to be costing the Org $4,000 per day in fines which it seems amounts to over $2 million by now. In my opinion that money does not belong to the Governing Body to waste in that way. It would have been money donated to help with the Earthwide work of spreading 'the God's news of God's Kingdom'... And to say that child abuse / pedophilia is everywhere is just a very poor excuse. Now please read this carefully. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I believed that the JW Org / Watchtower Soc' 'was 'no part of the world'. I believed that the Org was completely separate from the 'world'. I based this thinking on Jesus' words that He was no part of the world and that His followers / disciples would be no part of the world. Hence when you and others compare JW Org to other organisations / religions /  bodies of people, it makes no sense to me. My point being, if God was using the JW Org for His own purposes, to educate people of 'all tribes and nations', to bring people together Earthwide into an ARK like situation, as an Organisation of people that would be saved through Armageddon, then why would God allow His Org to be so contaminated by disgusting behavior ? Jesus said the religious leaders in Jerusalem were like Whitewashed Graves, clean on the outside but full of dead men's bones. Is it then so with the JW Org ? The Governing Body of JW Org call themselves 'the faithful and discreet slave'. Note I say that they call themselves by that title. Whereas the scripture says 'Who really is the faithful and discreet slave'. Surely only God will decide who is, and God's decision would surely be made on the 'works' of those ones. If, as it seems, the Governing Body is hiding pedophiles within the Org', then surely they cannot be doing what God wants them to be doing.. You see my approach is trying very hard to be unemotional but practical..... If God has a purpose for mankind and for His creation this planet Earth,  then surely God would have an organisation to use, so as to tell everyone that will listen, about God's purposes and requirements.  God had Noah and his family build the Ark to carry them through the destruction of the early world. God had Moses lead His people from Egypt and through the Red Sea. God had his rules and regulations written down for the Nation of Israel. God had His religious leaders in Israel to offer up the sacrifices for the people. So it seems that God has always been organised and has always shown His people the right direction to go in. Doing so God has also kept His people away from the people of the 'world'. In fact God punished His people when they mixed with the people of the 'world' and when they practise false religion. So, now, surely God has a special Organisation of His own ? The question I'm asking is, is it Organisation Jehovah's Witnesses or not? Because if it is then it needs cleaning out very much. If it isn't then God needs to show people clearly whom He is using..... Space Merchant I can see we disagree on much. On religious beliefs as well as on the JW Org's methods of doing things. One of the biggest problems within the JW Org's 'methods' seems to be, or have been, that people were told NOT TO report child abuse to the police or outside authorities. So if nothing is reported then the police etc know nothing, hence nothing gets done.  It seems to have been left to the Elders of the congregation to act, and if the person being accused is an Elder then it seems (and is quite possibly so) that the other Elders take the side of that Elder and dismiss the accusation. Another point that the Org uses is a scripture, which I'm sure was never meant to be used in this way, which says that a person must have two witnesses to any accusation for it to be investigated. Now it would seem almost impossible for a child to have two witnesses stood by whilst they are being sexually abused by someone else. And I don't think it is a legal requirement in a court of law to have two witnesses that directly saw it happen, it's only a rule within the JW Org.  One last point, as this is getting too  long for one comment.  The Elders are told to keep it a secret if there is a pedophile / known child abuser within it's congregation. Hence members of the congregation do not know if there is someone like that within their congregation. but enough for now. We are looking at JW Org from totally different viewpoints so will not agree on things. Have a good day. 

Unfortunately for you, this is no  mere opinion, I bring up what is true in regards of the days we live in, as Christians, to think of it as an opinion just makes one oblivious to the imperfections of this people and the things of this world (or the things that society has adopted that goes against scripture). Especially to multiple immorality and silliness of the societies in on this world (of the end times and tribulations) that considers DSM-5-TR (Pedophilia) as a sexual orientation that is to be accepted, pushed, endorsed and said by experts to parliaments.

I brought up the ARC because those who jumped on the ARC very late tend to ignore the facts, clearly accept the 1,006 cases as is without further research, mind you, even the non-religious are very well aware of this and how religions operate, in addition to that, there are also those observed the ARC late, especially those have already attacked said religion not just JWs. No one has never brought up the facts and the information, like I had just now, and those who do such will say the group or so-and-so did this and that just by claims that do not hold well without actual evidence and or unproven, never have you seen them speak of the real numbers regarding the ARC since 1,006 is their golden ticket.

Now then, it is understood that such takes place everywhere, as you mentioned. JW or not, there is no place in the world that pedophilia doesn't exist, just as it is a myth that DSM-5 (DSM-5-TR) doesn't exist, and anyone who says such clearly lives under a rock.

As for their so called "rule" that you mentioned, the Two-Witness rule, I am aware of it. I am also aware that this rule isn't exclusive to or only to the Jehovah's Witnesses, but it would seem that no one really reads into scripture or of those that practice "Bible Law" that well or the actions of early Church. Looking at their belief, the two-witness rule is a means for ensuring that accusations made against other within the Christian their church have a supportable basis for the claims made which requires they pass a minimal threshold before actions can be set in motion by church elders that potentially can have life changing consequences for the accused. The two witness rule is an internal mechanism applied exclusively within the congregation for internal judicial matters. For it is no different than church using confessions or those who apply the similar such as the "Canon Law", which is far worse than how JWs operate, for the Canon Law regardless of what you say or do, the one whom you confess to is prohibited from doing anything, since all parties are anonymous including the victim, in addition to no advise to seek outside law if one is subjected to Canon Law, which isn't biblical and requires no action whatsoever to be taken, not even advise to do something, for if should you kill a man, Canon Law keeps you anonymous.

As the law of the land goes in the eyes of religion, church organizations are known for handling the matters internally (judicial resolution of disputes Involving their members), the JWs are no different for they do the same thing as others but the only thing worse than what most Christians do is those that practice anything that equals to or similar to Canon Law. Regarding Christianity and is juridical handling of disputes and matters internally among the church, the police tend to get involve should the victim/family is told to or is advised to contact the police or if something escalates beyond control within that specific church, one has the choice to contact the police, especially when the obvious is thrown into play where there is somewhat of a huge disruption that break out in said church, a church take over or someone going bonkers in the church or on church grounds, or major issues involving such that would put the lives of the members at risk. No one is discouraged to call the police, which goes for every type of organization out there, not just religion itself.

Private matters as well as anything regarding child abuse, the church leaders of that church, or elders as you call them (whatever floats your boat), will do what they can to either handle the situation, go about looking for evidence on their own and advise you to contact the police, or just simply tell you to just contact the police, for no one is stopping you from doing so, and it is pretty much a cake walk for you already know who the suspected abuser, who he or she is and can I.D. him or her quite easily so that so and so can be apprehended without notice or question, which was the case with my faith, one of its denominations, a couple of months ago.

If not the elders, who are merely advisers and or shepherds as some say, you can tell a friend or a relative, you got several groups within your circle, with people who can help you right off the bat, especially if the abuser is within your household or family, you serve as a support system right there to take action or advise, school teachers or deans (some will not directly get involved though) and once again, no one is stopping you, but keep in mind, bystander effect/syndrome may come into play among friends and family, even those who are not part of said faith, for there has been situations whereas those who get involved are also the ones that end up getting hurt or taking a really dark action against the abuser(s) (vigilante justice), as well as encouraging such, for there are many examples of things in the past, i.e. parents going out of their way to plan out a cold bloodied killing of an alleged sex offender, mind you, they waited and when they got him, they killed him with a musical instrument, to be more specific, a Trumpet and I am sure the JWs, or any Christian faith, do not want to have vigilante justice with dark intentions on their plate (or a revival of avengers of blood with an actual intent to kill in a modern society who takes action in their own hands), for that will easily be more damaging vs the abuser getting arrested, as history shows us in some of the pedophilia cases thus far.

But Christians are subject to the civil systems and the laws of the land of which they dwell in, and God allows the people to govern themselves, which is clear and evident. As such, Christians are required to respect the law whether they agree with it or not as we see in Romans 13:1-7. However, while anything pertaining to the law have established judicial systems to resolve disputes, as for Christians themselves, when it comes to them they will and always will handle some things internally, if you want this abolished, than you have to take on the law and against the scriptures as such things are based on. Your next battle is those who accept the disorder as something normal, those who are the so called experts.

Christians are not perfect, and just like everyone else we have interpersonal and business relationships in which conflict can arise. Churches (collections of believers) also experience conflict, and sometimes things regarding members of the church, especially our when it comes to our children, whereas child abuse can become an issue when such is unexpected within a church. Christians understand that no one is without sin; it is how we go about resolving our sin that is important.

At the end of the day, it doesn't give the person the right, those who oppose a faith, to go out of their way to such persons in the streets, to attack them on such claim, in addition, to vandalism so to speak. Since the case is with the Jehovah's Witnesses, it doesn't give the oppose the right to go to these JWs, insult or belittle them, taking their literature and throwing it on the ground. In doing so, you fuel Christian infighting and the steel doors on Christianity will be breached heavily, thus the decline.

As for pedophiles, you must understand these mentally-ill people are subjected to a psychological disorder that is said to only originate with the someone for they are born with it. The best thing to do is keep them away from child so their urges do not overtake them, or if they already abused a child, to keep them away from children period, other times some have these urges and do not act upon the urge they possess, resulting in seeking help and or treatment, even attempt to go to churches to seek help, thinking it may help them, but for some, the urge is so great they are overtaken by it. Pedophiles are subjected to treatment and the like, however, nothing cannot help what they are born with, a demon that clutches the person while in the womb, as they say. It comes to a point where their inner demons takes them, thus becoming psychopaths in the process, which involves wanting to act out their urges and even wanting to kill a child or a minor; said victim they have access too. The price one pay for imperfection bought from Adam and Eve's disobedience in the Garden of Eden.

So again, not even an opinion, as a Christian, I see the world for what it truly is, imperfection, sin and death, immorality, sickness, war and violence, the whole she-bang and on top of it all, you have the real ruler of the world, as John 12:31, 14:30,16:11, as well as several other verses, importantly 1 John 5:19, informs us. Instead of a focused assault on a single group, learn to look into facts regarding the cases and claims, as I id with the ARC.

There are better ways to fight something, but going about it the wrong way will, as some Christians say, cause something you wouldn't want to happen fast and quick with somewhat of a small positive outcome in your prospective, in addition with a massive negative that will affect a lot of people, putting people of a faith at risk, which had already been made known in Detroit a couple years regarding the attack on all Christians itself. That being said,if you are victim, then go seek counsel, no one is stopping you, I even advise it, for counsel helps people cope with abuse, your anger is to be against the abuser, not against others who were either unaware of it or were even involved, for you as a person, have the choice to seek help and or call the police.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Back when dueling was legal, Fathers often solved the problem without a lot of discussion.

[Space Merchant]

19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Back when dueling was legal, Fathers often solved the problem without a lot of discussion.

Depends, back in those days it was like this, but at the same times, things can get shady, and often more people involved, they played dirty, in addition to foul play, for the one who is doing bad will win over the guy who exposes him, and the bad guy gets out free without anyone going for him, or as you said, not being able to be in a discussion for his/her actions.

 

Nowadays, it is somewhat of the same, but a little more of this, a bit of he said, she said, blame games, lying, and a slew of other things. But the same thing, but with a lot of discussion.

That being said, the Justice System itself is broken, double standard, kissing up to the higher man, etc.

But this goes back from what I have been saying in regards to child abuse/pedophilia, the justice system may at times fight against child abuse, but at the same time they tend to somewhat make it a bit legal, for as of recent news in regards to child grooming/marriage, i.e. a child, mainly younger girls, force to marry their abusers. Elsewhere, laws have been passed that will even get a non-pedophile arrested and charged as a sex offender due to strict broken laws. This is just the United States.

European areas have far more explicit things and craziness going within the underground society, and anyone who speaks of this is easily shut down - mainly a reliable source I know Jake of Blackstone Intelligence, to name a few.

If anything, one must fight the justice system if they have to (the reason why people consider this a better way), root out their flaws for allowing such to even take place and making those who also partake in child abuse get off Scot-free, which also opens doors for child abusers to infiltrate various groups like bugs to a light, wherever there is children they will find a way to get to them, they will find a way to obtain respect, a position and authority just so they can have it easy to gain access to children.

Religious temples, mosques, buildings etc are not safe, regardless of the denomination, schools, clubs and educational groups are not safe (most pedophiles tend to be female in these cases and are left off easy sadly), business that houses and or contains children are not safe either.

Since we talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, they have obviously been breached by the storm and it has caused them to stumble a bit and in a position to try and minimize such persons who manage to get in their faith and like other it is not an easy task to deal with anything in regards to child abuse - for some of these cases, like many, tends to take place by means of a family member.

Other times in all child abuse cases or any form of sexual/violent abuses, 9 times out of the 10 it is the man and or husband of the household who has done it - then again it is always the husband who did it in regards to any crime.

Then we have the double standards which is a whole other can of worms on its own when it comes to race, sex, class, wealth, etc.

[JOHN BUTLER]

You write much but say little. It's so easy to widen out and use blanket excuses to cover all. My only concern is the Child Abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation / Watchtower and Bible Tract society.  The Governing Body of those Orgs' say they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' as mentioned in the bible. Note I say, they say they are, and they expect all in the Orgs to believe them. They are proving themselves to be the 'wicked slave' that is also mentioned in the same scripture. The Child Abuse accusations are Earthwide about JW org and i don't think they are lies or just crack pots making things up for the sake of it. If each case of an accusation was immediately taken to the outside authorities then there could have been no cover up. People Earthwide that were in the Org are saying that they were told NOT TO TAKE IT TO THE OUTSIDE AUTHORITIES. When you can understand this then you might just get the sense of it all. How easy it was to keep it all covered up. Then also, the congregation members were not told of any pedophiles in their congregations. And it seems, that some men that were already being watched for being accused of pedophilia were given higher responsibility in the congregations. Add to this that the Governing Body refused to hand over the documents to the Supreme Court in California, whilst the Org ha handed over documents in Australia and UK, so why not USA ? Basically it stinks of complete cover up. 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My only concern is the Child Abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation

That being the case,

On 2/13/2018 at 11:28 PM, Space Merchant said:

The ARC also acknowledged that between 2015 of August and 2017 of March, only 17 reports of child abuse emerged within the Watchtower group in Australia, two of which declined to report. 

 

This is by far the most significant fact to emerge from the ARC data. It is the one you should focus on.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@AllenSmith you misjudge me if you think I hate the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation. I left the Org because I could not in my conscience try to encourage people to join an org that has a serious problem with Child Abuse. However, having been part of the Org and also having a physical brother who is an Elder in a congregation, I do know a little about how it works. Having been threatened with being disfellowshipped and seeing first hand how the Elders rule over the congregation, I do know what I'm talking about. My information gained is not all from the internet. However, my personal feelings are that God must surely have an organisation here on this Earth, and the JW Org would seem the closest to doing what God wants. So, my hope is that God will cleanse His chosen organisation, if it is the JW Org, or whichever one He chooses... As I've said, in my opinion the JW Org is the closest one to doing God's will, so I presume God will sort it out in His own time. But that is why I'm only concerned with the JW Org. As for this stupid notion that just because Child Abuse is ripe the Earth over, then it becomes old news and not important. That is the danger of over generalising. That is another reason I'm only interested in the Org that i think God is trying to use.  I seriously think we are close to Armageddon, therefore it is very important to have an Org that people can trust. Whilst the JW Org is digging itself deeper into the mire over the Pedophilia issue then it will not and cannot be fully trusteed.... If the Governing Body  were trying to serve God properly then why are they refusing to obey the law of the land by refusing to hand over Child Abuse accusation documents ? If the GB have nothing to hide then why not come clean completely, which would then help the Org to move forward in God's work. Then also In my opinion they should review their ideas on certain scriptures to be more helpful to people, rather than just being dictators. Please remember that Jesus said 'I want mercy not sacrifice'. I think the scripture at Matthew 12, v 9 through 12 is fabulous. Jesus basically says here that the Law was written as a helper and protection of the people, not a burden for the people.. I know that we are no longer living under the Mosaic law but the same issue applies. The Governing Body has made rules to govern the people within, and the Elders too have to follow those rules without question. But it seems that now some Elders are beginning to use their own conscience, and to think more on the scriptures and less on the Governing Body's rules. If it is not careful the JW Org will become divided within itself. I hope that does not happen, but i do hope the Org gets cleansed of it's problems before it's too late. 

  

8 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

That depends on what side of the spectrum you find yourself in. To the ARC, it was perfectly allowable to look the other way when it came to their government run detention centers that had, have, and will continue to have cases of sexual abuse. The Australian government went even further to make it illegal for the workers in those facilities to make a charge. They would receive jail time for being whistleblowers. Similar conditions exist in the UK, Canada, and some EU countries, that want to pass the buck to others, rather than face their own governmental failures.

Now in Australia? Clergy confessional still plays a big role by territory, so NOT ALL territories adhere to this mandatory reporting unless certain provisions are met!

You write much but say little. It's so easy to widen out and use blanket excuses to cover all. My only concern is the Child Abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation / Watchtower and Bible Tract society.  The Governing Body of those Orgs' say they are the 'Faithful and discreet slave' as mentioned in the bible. Note I say, they say they are, and they expect all in the Orgs to believe them. They are proving themselves to be the 'wicked slave' that is also mentioned in the same scripture. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

51 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That being the case,

This is by far the most significant fact to emerge from the ARC data. It is the one you should focus on.

Have you ever been a victim of child abuse ? I'll tell you for sure it lasts a lifetime. A person cannot remove it from their own mind. Only God will truly clean up a person's mind in the new world.... So, do you think a person is entitled to some sort of compensation during this life? And I'm not talking about the idea of someone trying to get lots of money out of it... But, If a person was disfellowshipped for making a complaint or report of being abused as a child, should they not be offered the chance of being reinstated with a 'clean slate'. Is it possible that in the past JW members were abused and then thrown out of the Org with no one to turn to ? Should those ones not be shown the love that God offers through Jesus Christ ?  And if what has happened in the past has ruined a person's life then maybe a small amount of money to help them in some constructive way ? Not massive amounts of money as has been in some cases, (in different countries around the Earth) which seems to have been just to shut people up. I keep coming back to the words of Jesus ' I want mercy not sacrifice '. It should not be about the 'rules', it should be about helping those that need the help. And to you too i will mention the scripture at Matthew ch 12, v 9 through 12. Jesus said at the end of this scripture,  'So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the sabbath'. Do you get the sense of that ? He was saying it's not about the law, not about who was right or wrong, it's about showing love and empathy to those in need. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I left the Org because I could not in my conscience try to encourage people to join an org that has a serious problem with Child Abuse

They do not.

Or rather, they do, but it is far less serious a problem than that of anyone else.

That is the significance of the data from Case 54.