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Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.


JOHN BUTLER

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35 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Once again, aren’t you doing the same by condemning the organization with little knowledge?

 

It doesn’t matter if your brother is or was an Elder. My experience supersedes any trivial aspect of what people perceive the Watchtower to be. Not even an enthusiast Bethelite will EVER know what I know. So, your personal opinion means very little, especially since these recent abuse cases with Australia span from a period of 65 years, and people like you make it seem it happens every 30 seconds. I don’t BELIEVE YOU that your heart lies with the abused children as you put it, just to excuse your hate for the Org. I know people like you all my life, nothing changes in that regard.

 

And yes! I do mean HATE! So I’m not misjudging something that people plainly feel in their hearts but don’t have the guts or sincerity to admit. I’ve been around too many ex-witnesses, not to understand their ways.

 

Therefore, as compared to which OTHER organization? Like the ARC itself that didn’t want to investigate Australia’s government-run detentions centers that were willfully hiding the abuse from the public and threatened the Doctors, Nurses, Staff with prison time for being a whistleblower can you compare to the Watchtower. How many Elders were sent to a rehab facility like they do within the Catholic faith, for a problematic priest, rather than being excommunicated, can you compare the Watchtower with? I gave 1 example of a Catholic Father (Priest) that committed MURDER and the State of Texas allowed that priest to enter into this rehab facility with no prison time. It was ONLY after an investigative journalist found out, that this priest was finally brought to justice in 2017, after being free for 55 years and molested over a 100 children after the murder.

 

So, the Watchtower has nothing to hide. Only people like you, like to think so.

 

I think we must agree to differ. You keep going on about the ARC. What about the Charity Commision here in the UK. What about the Superior court of Quebec in Canada ? What about Reclaimed Voices in the Netherlands ? And what about the USA and the refusing to hand over the documents ? Then we have the IICSA here in the Uk that are most likely to act on what they know and have another investigation, whether joint with the Charity Commision or separately. Add to this the upcoming Protest in London in August, which they hope will go international.  https://www.gofundme.com/EXJW-Protest-London

Then the very recent report in Devon Live  https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/jehovahs-witness-used-position-abuse-1333304 

This situation is not going away. But as you seem to be acting like God himself. knowing good and bad about everything, then there is little point me wasting my time talking to you. You keep pretending there isn't a problem within the Org. Keep kidding yourself. As for me,  I will wait on God to sort it all out. Then when i feel the time is right I will rejoin the JW Org. My prayers go to God daily through Jesus Christ. I ask him for direction and for His help in knowing what He wants me to do. I do not need people like you to tell me what to do.

 

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I cannot understand why there is only partial information concerning the Jehovah's Witnesses and Watchtower Society Child Abuse accusations from around the Earth. I have just put a status on my FB pag

Okay Okay Now you've got it! Once again, you have nailed it. I am way way up there in the ranks and I neglect all my crucial responsibilities to spend oodles of time posting to ma

"Are things being covered up? No." Really. So did the GB refuse to hand over the documents to the court in California USA or not ? Did the UK branch refuse to hand over documents at first or not ? Yes

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

They do not.

Or rather, they do, but it is far less serious a problem than that of anyone else.

That is the significance of the data from Case 54.

As with Allen Smith, you too seem to want to generalise. If JW Org is God's chosen organisation then it needs to be kept clean and safe. It has to be a place where those that wish to serve God properly can have trust in the Elders and other congregation members. It is supposed to be going up to the mountain of Jehovah / Yahovah / Yahweh. It should be pure in it's worship and fair in it's dealings. As I've said before Jesus said 'I want mercy not sacrifice'. Where is the mercy in Child Abuse ? And as I've shown in my comment above, this problem is not going away, so don't put your head in the sand and ignore it.  The JW Org has to make a clean sweep and do some rethinking. The Governing Body are always 'rethinking' scriptures, and they say they are the 'Faithful and Discreet slave class', so maybe they should start acting like it. They should do what is right in God's eyes not in men's eyes..  It's not all about rules and being the boss. It's about having real love for God's people. When a person is disfellowshipped they announce from the platform that person X is 'no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. When a person leaves the Org, such as myself, they say person X is 'no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'.  They do not say that I or others left the Org of our own choice.  I wonder why? Could it be that so many are  leaving of their own choice ? Or could it be that they don't want any member of the congregation to talk to me or others ? The scripture they use for the idea of shunning is based on a brother / sister that is deliberately sinning against God. So they won't say that i or others have' left the Org' because they know we have not sinned against God, but that we have found genuine reasons to leave the Org. Other congregation members are guided to think it would be wrong for them to speak to us, but there is no scriptural backing for that. Anyway enough, it seems that you are not interested in facing facts or in getting the Org sorted out. Be like Allen, keep dreaming. I will wait on God Himself to sort it all out. I hope that God shows me mercy as I also hope God will show mercy to those who have suffered wrongly within the JW Org.

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Probably you have read the other threads and appreciated the significance of the 17 instances of Case 54 - that children in the JW environment appear to be ten times safer than in the overalll world. I have made that point. Others have, too.

To spotlight this is called "raising a straw man." It is raising a tangential argument and subsequently demolishing it in hopes that the halo effect will spill over and hide the main concern. Persons of critical thinking hate raising straw men. It is a major no-no. With regard to Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not want the faith compared to other organizations, where it will be seen as ten times better. They want them compared to perfection, where it will be seen to fall short.

Will you really go livid at the organization that has a prevention rate ten times better? What will happen when you approach Jehovah and tell him you are 'in' only when there is perfection?

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When a person leaves the Org, such as myself, they say person X is 'no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'.

This happened because you were determined to go out with a splash, or someone talked you into doing it. It didn't have to be. You could have faded or simply desisted congregation activity.

You have let the liars frame your world for you. It is plain in every sentence you write. Ponder upon the JW record being ten times better than anyone else and then ask yourself - do you really want to hurl denunciations at it because it is not perfect. Hustle your rear end back to the Kingdom Hall and ask for readmiittance. It will not happen overnight, but it will reliably happen if you persist. It always does.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And as I've shown in my comment above, this problem is not going away, so don't put your head in the sand and ignore it.

Possibly not. But there is no reason to be a 'fighter against God' with regard to it and oppose the organization with a prevention record second to none. 

As you will know if you read the report, the current Watchtower policy is that no child is required to face an abuser. And a child may, in relating things to those investigating allegations, have any support person present it wishes, male or female. And that - the elders are very insistant on pointing this out - any child, family member, or other person has every right to report to outside authorities, and that the elders will do it themselves where mandated.

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“Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the Lord called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”  Ezek 9:3-5

What happens after the that?  And where is God’s present sanctuary/”Jerusalem” found?  Ezek 9:5-11; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:14-17

Not all grieve over the detestable things in the organization but make excuses for them.  It takes the nations to impress upon Watchtower’s leaders to change their tactics with child abusers.  It is men, leading men; not God and his righteous decrees leading men who call themselves the “faithful and discreet slave”. 

Every comparison of the organization with all other earthly organizations is comparing all powers together in “Babylon”.  Rev 18:4-8

 

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@TrueTomHarley You talk such rubbish unfortunately. I didn't go out with a splash, i didn't need or want  any attention thankyou. I do find it quite fully that no one is allowed to disagree with you though.  I therefore presume you are an Elder or higher in the ranks. Why shouldn't i presume as you and Allen have made so many presumptions about me..... It makes me tired having to repeat myself so i will not bother. You and Allen obviously want to bury your heads in the sand, so be it. And as for your idea of me being a 'fighter against God'. That would be funny if it were not so serious. It's a bit like saying the Nation of Israel were God's chosen people so they were a hundred times better than the surrounding nations. Oh yes but, the religious leaders of the Nation of Israel at the time of Jesus, would not believe the truth and not give up their 'high places'. And of course they condemned Jesus to death. Now Jesus would have been seen as an apostate of course, and so would the disciples / apostles. Wow, going against God's chosen priests. The Pharisees, the Sadducees and scribes. The whole Sanhedrin. Now how wrong could that have been ? At that time you would have said they were 'fighters against God' just as (the apostle) Paul did. You see how things can easily be twisted ? For I am not a fighter against God, and that is why i want the truth to be known and justice to be done. I notice you mention 'the current Watchtower policy', but how many people have previously suffered, to have this now 'current W/T policy'.  We will have to agree to differ, and yes i want a cleaner JW Org, and I'm sure God does too. . 

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think we must agree to differ. You keep going on about the ARC. What about the Charity Commision here in the UK. What about the Superior court of Quebec in Canada ? What about Reclaimed Voices in the Netherlands ? And what about the USA and the refusing to hand over the documents ? Then we have the IICSA here in the Uk that are most likely to act on what they know and have another investigation, whether joint with the Charity Commision or separately. Add to this the upcoming Protest in London in August, which they hope will go international.  https://www.gofundme.com/EXJW-Protest-London

With all do respect, this link you posted about this man, Neil Gardner, also known as the TheGreatApostate, was one of the very people who verbally attacked and insulted, in addition to leading an attack on 3 people on YouTube and Media, one of them who intervened on November 5th of 2017 prior to the protest in Warwick. The blame was pinned on JWs, however, only until Neil and the others rooted out this man, in addition to 2 others who lived in the Passiac and Orange county who defended him and the JWs for they were against church raiding and disruption, with Neil being among those who was on the attack.

I wouldn't use him as an example for even after the situation at Warwick, he spoke of the London event, which was not sitting well with others who are neutral with JWs or Christianity itself.

I spoke of this several months ago in a thread started by someone here in regards to the JW church disruption.

 

Mind you, the actions of the EX JWs didn't sit well with the non JW churches in the area, they backed out when the EX JWs called them up to help them out, for clearly the Christian churchgoers were nowhere to be seen before the videos were taken down.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The  former Jehovah's Witnesses, and again as to what I have said previously, pedophiles (article spelled paedophile instead of pedophile) will infiltrate groups and sway their way into a position or trust with the people in order to feed their own sick desires. When the abuse became known the authorities were notified and the authorities took action based on the crime.

In addition to that, this was easily zeroed in to that specific congregation of church members in London, hence the victims.

In the end, the abuser has been dealt with.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

This situation is not going away. But as you seem to be acting like God himself. knowing good and bad about everything, then there is little point me wasting my time talking to you. You keep pretending there isn't a problem within the Org. Keep kidding yourself. As for me,  I will wait on God to sort it all out. Then when i feel the time is right I will rejoin the JW Org. My prayers go to God daily through Jesus Christ. I ask him for direction and for His help in knowing what He wants me to do. I do not need people like you to tell me what to do.

The situation can't stop nor will it go away. Pedophilia is rooted deep within our imperfections, the price of our early parents - for we know pedophilia is bad, and we also know it is a major mental illness that has an unknown root of origin, hence why pedophiles who know of their problem seek out aid from those trained in such field of study.

But yes, I agree on some things, for no group, organization, as well as the people in such groups, be it educational, religious, institutions, etc, no one is perfect nor can they strive to be perfect, what they can only do is do their best to minimize anything brewing among them and that's that.

For the day violence, sexual immorality, wars, death, etc come to an end, as well as the ending of child abuse that is on a global scale, it will be the day when all that is bad will be wiped out and hat is good shall remain for time indefinite.

In the mean time, there are people who stick to what is true and endure, as sad it may seem, endurance in truth is what keeps the people going, as for others who know the JWs tend to be strictly neutral with them - for any group that came out of the Second Awakening that continues to push closer to what is true even though at times they stumble, such groups like this some Christians do not attempt to bash or attack because in the end our actions is what God will see, for such actions can lead some to do drastic things, and eventually hatred, like the one who has posted that gofundme. For no one is going to go that far to take out a group and take out Christianity itself (which is happening in the UK and Asia).

That being said, all of us have to trend carefully, and endure because in the end, salvation can be easily be lost - we need to stand back up and keep walking and keeping ourselves in check and being careful as well as those around us.

In the end however, it is mainly the laws and the government that needs to be checked too, in some parts of the US, child grooming and marriage legal now, which will spawn far more pedophiles than one can realize. So the unchecked pedophiles that do not get their vile desires met in schools or religion, they will jump on this now legal opportunity, which spells danger for far more children in the states.

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Hello, John. You have issue with what is going on now all this attention with child abuse cases, the outside authority getting involved and they are bringing to bear their outside influence which is making things somewhat uncomfortable. Are things being covered up? No! Are the instances of abuse being handled? Yes! But are they being done so by worldly standards? No! Can the authorities be called in by the victim? Yes! And as been stated if the only one privy to what has happened, where is the proof? There has been only an accusation and that carries much weight. If true the person is disfellowshipped, but what if this was a lie? The person with worldly authorities involved now has much more than anything you have brought up, to worry about. And why should you know what my past sins are? 

You said you left, it bothered your conscience. So you know something of scripture. Remember the life of young Samuel when his parents took him to the tabernacle to serve? During his time there the sons of Eli were very wicked, doing things immoral and evil. Do you think Samuel wanted to come home when his parents came to visit, knowing what was going on at 'Jehovah's house'? Who was going to clean this up? The very same person One who is going to clean this matter up if in fact it is a matter that is filth and dirt on his name. This is not a 'man's ' organization, but Jesus is overseeing this part of Jehovah's entire administration. 

I've seen this occur before, we have to weather this storm, follow what is presented not what we think should be done. That is what hot Dathan and others in trouble. These authorities want to set rules that will go against what scripture have set out for us. We will obey, but not what is against scripture. As long as we live in this system we will have these instances, we are an imperfect group of people trying to serve and worship the God of who created all life. We will make mistakes even those who take the lead, Paul and Peter, James and John were also imperfect and are no better than those in charge today. Have a great day.

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1 minute ago, AllenSmith said:

What people need to realize is religious child abuse can't be stopped, in some cases it can be prevented a bit, especially in an imperfect world where child abuse and other vile acts run rampant and at times it is deemed "normal" by the general society, something people will find it hard to realize sadly. I, as a Unitarian, know that our denomination isn't immune to the likes of child abuse as well, with some being caught off guard of when it happens or the aftermath of it.

But Child Abuse in general is far worse in the UK, regardless of institution, and a majority of the abuse is done by a male, mostly a family man and or relative who does such things. I believe there was a bust on a pedophilia ring right under the noses of UK officials (obviously the corrupt among law enforcement and officials take part in the child abuse): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/11/1000-children-may-have-victims-britains-biggest-ever-child-abuse/

There were some grime things going on with that with children purposely being killed and or sacrificed, as they say.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/services-and-resources/research-and-resources/statistics/

I got more information, even videos of investigation in regards to child abuse (mental also with what the victim had to say), but it may seem a bit disturbing for some here -  for the victims spoke of not just child abuse, but the killing of other children and human and or animal sacrifices. This also includes some things in the US, which has not really be talked about.

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2 hours ago, John Houston said:

Hello, John. You have issue with what is going on now all this attention with child abuse cases, the outside authority getting involved and they are bringing to bear their outside influence which is making things somewhat uncomfortable. Are things being covered up? No! Are the instances of abuse being handled? Yes! But are they being done so by worldly standards? No! Can the authorities be called in by the victim? Yes! And as been stated if the only one privy to what has happened, where is the proof? There has been only an accusation and that carries much weight. If true the person is disfellowshipped, but what if this was a lie? The person with worldly authorities involved now has much more than anything you have brought up, to worry about. And why should you know what my past sins are? 

You said you left, it bothered your conscience. So you know something of scripture. Remember the life of young Samuel when his parents took him to the tabernacle to serve? During his time there the sons of Eli were very wicked, doing things immoral and evil. Do you think Samuel wanted to come home when his parents came to visit, knowing what was going on at 'Jehovah's house'? Who was going to clean this up? The very same person One who is going to clean this matter up if in fact it is a matter that is filth and dirt on his name. This is not a 'man's ' organization, but Jesus is overseeing this part of Jehovah's entire administration. 

I've seen this occur before, we have to weather this storm, follow what is presented not what we think should be done. That is what hot Dathan and others in trouble. These authorities want to set rules that will go against what scripture have set out for us. We will obey, but not what is against scripture. As long as we live in this system we will have these instances, we are an imperfect group of people trying to serve and worship the God of who created all life. We will make mistakes even those who take the lead, Paul and Peter, James and John were also imperfect and are no better than those in charge today. Have a great day.

"Are things being covered up? No." Really. So did the GB refuse to hand over the documents to the court in California USA or not ? Did the UK branch refuse to hand over documents at first or not ? Yes it seems the UK branch handed them over eventually. Was there a serious problem in Australia or not ? Is the work being done by Reclaimed Voices in the Netherlands just all lies ?  Does the Supreme Court of Quebec have any grounds for a 'class action lawsuit' or not ? Was the two witness rule being used to stop progress on accusations by victims ? Is being disfellowshipped enough ? Past sins ? Are the actions of pedophiles 'past sins' or could it be that as some have mentioned, pedophilia is a mental illness and not controllable ?  And as for making sins known, the apostle Paul wasn't afraid to mention people's sins. 'A man having sex with his father's wife' I believe Paul said.... 

I left the Org for many reasons. 1. Yes it bothered my conscience to be part of an Org that would allow this to happen. 2. I could not go into the ministry and invite people into such an Org. 3. I did not want to get disfellowshipped for 'causing division in the congregation' as i would have been if I spoke about my concerns with others. 4. I thought and still think that brothers and sisters should be warned about what might happen to them in the ministry due to this situation. Basing this upon a recent happening in the Kingdom Hall which i regularly attended, where a brother was murdered last year. https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/knifeman-admits-devon-jehovahs-witness-791434 . 

There are many other questions in my mind now. The GB say they are the 'faithful and discreet slave'. they also say that others of the anointed are not of the faithful slave class. Why should we believe them? The GB have changed the meaning of scriptures many times, the generation one being a main issue. Now if they are being guided by Jesus and the holy spirit, why would they make these important mistakes ? Also why would they refuse to be helpful in the cleaning up of the JW Org ? Surely it does bring shame on Jehovah to have his name associated with child Abuse ? 

"follow what is presented not what we think should be done". Then you are worshipping men by believing everything they tell you, and obeying their orders without question... 'Put not your trust in earthling man, in whom no salvation belongs' (I think that is quoted right). I never follow what I'm told in such things unless it can be proved from scriptures.  And Jesus said 'I want mercy not sacrifice', meaning it's about God's word being a protection and about showing love and empathy. It is not about keeping an Organisation looking clean, 'like a whitewashed grave, full of dead men's bones'... And as for your comparison to the Apostles, well, it's laughable. The Apostles proved fully that they had God's and Jesus' approval and help. The Governing Body of JW Org in no way come close. The GB have only their own words to say they are the faithful slave class, they do not have any proof at all. 

I could go deeper, into the name Jehovah, but it's too late in the day. YHWH or in Hebrew properly HWHY from right to left. Why is it not Yahweh or as some say Yahovah or Yahowah ? The name Jehovah came from false religion and was convenient to use as people already knew it. But does that make it right ?

Enough. God Himself or Jesus Christ will judge me. They will look into my heart and they will know my complete life, so they will judge me on what they know about me and what the intentions of my heart are. They will know how I suffered child abuse, sexual. physical. mental, emotional, and how I still suffer torment from it all. And therefore they will see why i have taken my stand for truth.  

 

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