Jehovah's Witnesses Child Abuse / Pedophilia and the Governing body.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Child abuse is sometimes a cultural construct.

My family grew up in the Appalachian coal mining areas of West Virginia.

I remember when I was a toddler, still in diapers, my Father made me go into  the horizontal coal veins too small for him to get into ... and holding a candle, I had use a plastic spork to dig coal, to bring lumps of coal carried in my diaper, back to the main shaft.

Those were good times ... me and dad, a half mile below the surface, working together, filling up rope attached wicker baskets which my mom would pull to the surface by hand.

We would trade a bushel of coal for acorns to feed our pet pig, who only had three legs.

Covered in coal dust, we would sit there in the dark, lit by my single candle, and share our B.L.T. sandwich.

Good Times!

[TrueTomHarley]

You know, as much as I think James is the plague personified, every once in a while he offers up an absolutely precious vignette of life.

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

We are NOT here to approve of God, we are here to be approved by God

Strictly speaking, we are not supposed to be here at all.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

... after Dad got black lung disease, we rented some bottom land near the river, and with a two handled post-hole digger, supplied Home Depot with post holes for a few years ... but after a particularly violent thunderstorm, a river of mud wiped out our home, and the entire stockpile of post-holes we had dug.

We  considered it a mixed blessing, for at least we had mud pies to eat.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

35 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You know, as much as I think James is the plague personified, every once in a while he offers up an absolutely precious vignette of life.

Yeah .... I grew up before vaccinations, which we did ourselves  with muddy sharp sticks, and even so, I got every "childhood disease" known to man.  The Health Department put a QUARANTINE poster on the front door, so I would barefoot at the age of eight, sneak out the back window to the top of an oil tank , and drop to the ground into piles of broken Coca-Cola bottles, the impact spreading disease and vermin that fell off, leaving a trail of blood to the community playground, where we would swing cats in buckets in our version of "horse shoes", which is a whole other subject.

The concept of child abuse was totally unknown.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

... anyone with teeth was a sissy!

[JOHN BUTLER]

@TrueTomHarley "You are hanging out with single-issue people, and single-issue people of any stripe will distort your world view. Single-issue people usually become those who 'cannot see the forest for the trees.' "...... Look in the mirror my friend. It seems to be you that have the single issue here. It seems to be your thought that the Governing Body are right no matter what they do. Do you worship them that much ?  

My thought, the GB should probably be removed and replaced........ I have a thought that some of them have been removed in the past but I've not gone deeply into that. There are other things in my life to do. 

And once again you generalise, this time concerning the courts. If the courts have to deal with millions of cases of abuse, not just the ones from JW Org, then that is a generalisation. The courts must have case queing up out the doors and round the block... 

However it does not make it right for the Governing Body to think they are so supreme as to misuse their power and get away with it.

One more point, as it's just come back to my mind, this idea you have that I'm a 'follower' of something or other. I think your mind or your emotions  is / are using this false idea as an excuse to accuse me.. It seems to be the only thing you can latch onto. I've told you many times, so it seems pointless telling you again, but I'll try to reason with you. I AM NOT A PART OF ANY ANTI - JW OR ANTI WATCHTOWER MOVEMENT. I only want the Organisation cleaned up. And if the GB are so high and mighty and think ( just as a wicked slave would think) the master is delaying in coming, and then mistreat the 'domestics'... This is made so clear in God's word yet you seem to ignore it. 

"One lesson to be learned is to value the conscience and godly devotion of the GB that has maintained an organization that is 90% less likely to originate cases of abuse that the courts may screw up... " Um, two point here. 1. The GB doesn't have the quantity of cases to worry about. 2. The only known cases within the JW Org are the ones already 'out there'. It's a bit like saying there is no water, but you haven't yet searched for any well. JW cases will only be known once they are made known to the public. Otherwise how will we know about them. Whereas these court cases you keep going on about are already 'out there' and everybody knows about them. The term 'tip of the iceberg' seems to fit in nicely here. Remember that in most of the countries I've mentioned, investigations are either just beginning or are ongoing, so it's too soon to judge how many cases have been hidden or not dealt with properly.

I laughed, sorry, when i read, 'I'm writing a book'. That always hits a sour note with me, but maybe I'm misjudging you. So why are you 'writing a book'... Most people write books to make themselves money or to gain fame. 

I actually discredit your comments when you tell me I'm 'rolling with the pigs' and you say they are my heroes, because that means you misjudge me. And as we seem to agree, we are not fit to judge each other. 

God will use whomever He chooses to use, to do whatever job He wants them to do. If God chooses to use people of the world to clean up His chosen Organisation, because that Org will not clean itself up, then so be it. Who are we to question it ?    

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

17 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 1909: ἐπί

d. figuratively used of things, affairs, persons, which one is set over, over which he exercises power; Latinsupra, our over (cf. below, B. 2 b. and C. I. 2 e.): ἐπί πάντων, Romans 9:5; Ephesians 4:6 (where ἐπί, διά and ἐν are distinguished); καθίστημι τινα ἐπί τίνος, Matthew 24:45; Matthew 25:21, 23; Luke 12:42; Acts 6:3 (Genesis 39:4, 5; 1 Macc. 6:14 1 Macc. 10:37, etc.; Plato, rep. 5, p. 460 b., etc.); δίδωμι τίνιἐξουσίαν ἐπί τίνος, Revelation 2:26; ἔχω ἐξουσίαν ἐπί τίνος, Revelation 20:6; βασιλεύειν ἐπί τίνος, Matthew 2:22 R G Trbrackets; 

Revelation 5:10; ἔχειν ἐφ' ἑαυτοῦ βασιλέα, 

Revelation 9:11; ἔχειν βασιλείαν ἐπί τῶν βασιλέων, Revelation 17:18; ὅςἦν ἐπ' τῆς γάζης, who was over the treasury, Acts 8:27; ὁ ἐπί τοῦ κοιτῶνος, he who presided over the bedchamber, the chamberlain, Acts 12:20 (Passow, i., 2, p. 1035a gives many examples from Greek authors (cf. Liddell and Scott, under the word A. III. 1; Lob. ad Phryn., p. 474; Sophocles Lexicon, under the word); for examples from the O. T. Apocrypha see Wahl, Clavis Apocr., p. 218a).

“And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:10

¹⁰  and you made them to be a kingdomp and priests to our God,qand they are to rule as kingsr over the earth.”

Bit of a difference isn't it ? 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@James Thomas Rook Jr. If you don't care about Child Abuse, why don't you just say so ? 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

“And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”  Rev 5:10

¹⁰  and you made them to be a kingdomp and priests to our God,qand they are to rule as kingsr over the earth.”

Bit of a difference isn't it ? 

Watchtower’s Greek Interlinear uses “upon”:

Rev 5:10  - https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/kingdom-interlinear-greek-translation/books/revelation/5/

RNWT – “and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

There is quite a bit of difference.  Makes you wonder why they changed it in their Bible.  At least it should make you question their intentions.  The GB have themselves in mind; the higher they believe they can ascend, the bolder they become in falsehoods.  

“The KJV translates Strong's G1909 in the following manner: on (196x), in (120x), upon (159x), unto (41x), to (41x), miscellaneous (339x).”

The “144,000” are a “new creation”.  The corrupted present “heavens” and “earth” (God’s fallen anointed ones) will be completely dissolved.  2 Pet 3:7  The new heavens and earth (Rev 21:5; 2 Pet 3:13) are the “new creation” – both spirit and flesh.  Anointed priests are “messengers”, which is the meaning of “angels”. Mal 2:7; Matt 22:29,30; 1 Pet 3:22; Eph 1:22; Heb 2:5,16,8,12; 12:22,23; Luke 10:20; Rev 1:20; 8:2,6; Josh 6:4  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mal+2%3A7%3B+Matt+22%3A29%2C30%3B+1+Pet+3%3A22%3B+Eph+1%3A22%3B+Heb+2%3A5%2C16%2C8%2C12%3B+12%3A22%2C23%3B+Luke+10%3A20%3B+Rev+1%3A20%3B+8%3A2%2C6%3B+Josh+6%3A4&version=NKJV

Anointed ones can be “registered in heaven”, while on the earth by being “sealed”; thus, they are not only part of “heaven” but rule on the earth as “kings”.  Luke 10:20; Heb 12:22,23

“Now Jacob went out from Beersheba and went toward Haran. ¹¹ So he came to a certain place and stayed there all night, because the sun had set. And he took one of the stones of that place and put it at his head, and he lay down in that place to sleep. ¹² Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it.

¹³ And behold, the Lord stood above it and said: “I am the Lord God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac; the land on which you lie I will give to you and your descendants. ¹⁴ Also your descendants shall be as the dust of the earth; you shall spread abroad to the west and the east, to the north and the south; and in you and in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed. ¹⁵ Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land; for I will not leave you until I have done what I have spoken to you.”  Gen 28:10-15

Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”

⁵⁰ Jesus answered and said to him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” ⁵¹ And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafteryou shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”  John 1:49-51

Spiritual “Israel” are the descendants of Jacob, who saw the vision of the ladder reaching to heaven, and whose descendants will be as the dust of the earth. And it will be his descendants who would be ascending and descending on the "ladder"/stairway.   In order for that to occur, the “144,000” must be a “new creation”; able to move between heaven and earth.  2 Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15

Wt. 14/11/14 - ON Pentecost of the year 33, Jehovah made a historic change. He created a new nation called “the Israel of God,” or spiritual Israel. (Galatians 6:16) Jehovah used his holy spirit to select the individual members of this nation. Paul wrote that those in this new nation do not need to be circumcised as the descendants of Abraham did. Instead, their “circumcision is that of the heart” by holy spirit. —Romans 2:29.

“The tribal arrangement in Israel was based on descent from the 12 sons of Jacob. IT-1

“John’s vision of those standing on the heavenly Mount Zion with the Lamb (whom natural Israel had rejected) revealed the number of this spiritual Israel of God to be 144,000 “bought from among mankind.” —Re 7:4; 14:1, 4.  IT-1

The “144,000” are the Bride that “descends out of heaven” as “New Jerusalem” (Rev 21:9,10) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A9%2C10&version=NKJV

“Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: ¹³ three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.” Rev 21:12,13

The Watchtower misleads all JWs with the deceptive teaching that the anointed will only be ruling from heaven. A good King not only rules over the people, but serves their needs. This is God's plan for the holy priesthood to serve and teach the people, in the same manner as the priesthood served the people in the nation of Israel.  Heb 8:5  

 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Matt 20:25-28

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I laughed, sorry, when i read, 'I'm writing a book'. That always hits a sour note with me, but maybe I'm misjudging you. So why are you 'writing a book'... Most people write books to make themselves money or to gain fame. 

 

It is amazing! I can’t sneak anything past you. You have hit the nail on the head! I am writing a book because I want to be

F. A. M. O. U. S ! ! !

@JW Insider,!!! Run to the art room and fetch me a picture of a brother with puffed out chest thumbing to to the yacht and mansion behind him and the piles of MONEY (but no bikini-clad woman, for this IS a brother and we ARE talking a family publication.

I want that brother to be   ME!!! 

Swimming Pools!

Movie stars!

Sheesh. I’m writing a book for the same reason anyone writes a book – because I have a story to tell. Have you ever been to a library? There are a lot of them in there. I want to put one there as well.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW cases will only be known once they are made known to the public.

This is true with anyone! What is wrong with you? 

There has never been any question from the ARC or anyone else that they were getting the right numbers. The only reason they have any numbers at all is because Jehovah’s Witnesses track wrongdoing so as to punish it and warn others as necessary. No other faith even attempts to ensure that members should apply what they learn!! No one else goes there.

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Do you worship them that much ?  

Jehovah’s Witnesses worship the Governing Body in the same sense that passengers on a plane worship the pilot when they refrain from kicking in the cockpit door to and grabbing the controls. This is not hard to understand to anyone who has not mentally made himself a ten-year-old!!

It is like when the reporters ask Tillerson "Did you call the President a moron??!!!" and he says "I'm not going to dignify that question with an answer" because he knows that if he says no, they will keep pressing him until he says yes, and if he says yes, they will run off with what they think is the story of the century!!!  even though people routinely call each other morons - whether seriously or in jest, and it means nothing!!

"Worship the Governing Body" my foot!! I mean, there is only so much you can do with a person determined to be stupid!!

It gets worse.

Punishment is fine – for child rapists no punishment is too great, but prevention is obviously the higher priority. It looks like every tenth person on the planet is a pedophile, so punishment, even when you do it right, only goes so far in solving the problem. And Jehovah's Witnessed DO punish. Quite severely when called for. But their way doesn't dovetail with the world's preferred way and THAT is what is being resolved. It is also the ONLY CONCERN John has!

I am so done with this fellow! He does not care about prevention – he has made the point over and over again. He only cares about shaming people and revenge! (on Witnesses) He wants to punish it after it happens but does not seem to care about if it happens in the first place!!!

He wants revenge! He wants to shame people! He could care less about stopping child sexual abuse!! That's not his thing.

Enough!

I am willing to disobey counsel in certain instances and engage with those who have fallen under the spell of single-issue fanatics, even if some of them also embrace apostacy.

But there is no way I am going to engage with one who would encourage pedophiles!!! He sees how it is being stopped to a ten-fold degree and it doesn't interest him at all!!!

 

[Space Merchant]

21 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you see a political nation in the world that kills the anointed ones that it has come against?

wall of text.

I can't help but see you like mixing verses again, quoting, but vague in the realm of hermeneutal interpretations whereas the eyes can see, in addition to total discernment.

That being said, there is a portion of the government that is against several other groups of people, this includes Christianity, even though I am not a fan of the Trinitarians/Modalist, the New Agers, and the mainstreamers, etc, this so called the Deep State (Shadow Government) is indeed a major threat to everyone -  especially with what went down with Syranic and Aramaic Christians in the Middle East, and since the topic is about Jehovah's Witnesses, the masterminds behind the Russian Ban, which reinforced of what has been talked about since 2016 to 2017 and onward, the State Duma and the like which swept the country by storm; now already predicted by some which is now a true reality, for instance the Russian Election of this month.

The effect is worldwide friend, and it will come for everyone and everything, some will be taken by surprise, some will be aware, some will be easily persuaded by such persons.