CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES

[Space Merchant]

22 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Enough, this isn't about winning battles is it. People trying to show how 'intelligent' they are, or how knowledgeable they are. 

It will do me more harm than good trying to converse with you all. You all have your point of view and I have mine.

It isn't about winning a battle, it is about what is just and what is unjust, for what is right and what is wrong. Proving what is fact and true isn't shedding of one's intelligence, it is about making know what is already made public for everyone to look into the information themselves. As for me, and others who understand, it isn't a point a view or an opinion, especially with what I posted about Rahab and the history itself of the Passover and how churches have been operating since the day Jesus said the very words to Peter in Matthew 16:18, the schisms that left to denominational differences of those speaking of what is true an those speaking of what is not true.

26 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My concerns are not what 'men' think of JW Org, but what God thinks of it. I was hoping things would move forward more quickly but it seems I must have patience.  In probably 3 more months things will become more plain for everyone to see. And by the end of the year hopefully God will have sorted the Org out, if indeed He intend to use it at all. 

God rally does not have to think if he can already see the hearts of men, especially with what is said the Hebrew Old Testament of those in the right and those in the wrong - Deuteronomy 30:15-20:

(15) “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. (16) If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. (17) But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, (18) I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. (19) I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, (20) loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.” 

With that in mind, know that in every group, even the Jehovah's Witnesses, there is good people who do their best to do what is right even if they tend to go about some things incorrectly since they are not properly experienced in somethings, and there is bad people among them who will abuse position, do bad things, trick and or deceive people, at times even purposely going into the faith to disrupt them, wrong them, etc.

Man can view things with his own eyes, but God does not need to think for he has already set in motion of what to expect regrading those with good hearts and those with bad hearts, he does not care about your sex, age, background, but your heart alone and your faith in him and his son by means of worship and your works.

I'll say it again, with that in mind, God knows who is and who is not for him, that being said there is a biblical reason a strong one as to why some Christians, knowing or not knowing of how JWs operate do not and will not subject themselves into attacking them, bashing them, spreading their faults and the like and mixing it with conspiracy -  for such persons know how God views holiness and purity, something that is highly important to God, and will not go on such a path as to which a majority is taking - be it against JWs, Anti-JWs or infighting contributors, for there is a price to pay in front of the White Throne of Yahweh/Jehovah God and the one he has appointed as his Messianic King.

So I will say it again, you are 100% in the right to be concern about Child Abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses faith, but to sully them and bash them regardless if you have a disdain for them or not, heed the scripture so you do not end up like the many who has gone off path

Matthew 7:23 - But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.' (see Luke 13:25-27).

In the end, they are still your brothers and sisters, this includes the leaders of the JWs also, who are indeed your brothers too and everyone else on the earth for we are all children of God (bene elohims of elohim). Those who do wrong, God does not have to think, for such persons will be judged and will not avoid such judgement, this includes wicked persons who will be raised out of Sheol to be judged in front of the White Throne, Revelation 20:11-15 Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When i joined the Org i had just been 'released' from a Children's Home where i had suffered sexual, physical and emotional abuse. As a complete contrast the congregation I joined was so full of peace and what i thought was love. That is why i accepted it so easily. I was naive and looking for security in a wicked world... Now having grown up and with a wider outlook  I want to ask as many questions as fill my mind. And having spent time doing my own research I've found many things that I'm not happy with. 

Do not worry, for soon the day will come where all that wickedness that stem from Child Abuse, those affected by it, will be at peace when the day comes, this is why you have to and must endure no matter what. But as I said before, several times even, bad people will be dealt with no matter the faith, that being said, anyone Christian who takes the lifestyle of Christians by means of what is said in scripture do not shed false love, and I made mention of how some churches vary by means of nation and culture before, for one church who shares the same and or similar faith is more connected by means of culture and chemistry with others in their community when other churches somewhat weak and or lack in this love, but never, will one show false love - that being said, this goes for Restorationist, never have any of them, ever, shown false love, some may be weak, yes or lack, but never false - research history of Christianity if you still do not get that.

45 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So i will continue to pray to God daily, and to continue to search and research. And of course to continue to read God's word. 

Prayer is continuous, friend and continue to do that for there isn't a time of day to pray and choosing a time to pray - when you pray you pray for it is a direct contact to God the Father, for in prayer the only way to the Father is through Jesus.

I also invite you to understand what Spiritual Warfare is in regards to the women of the bible as well as the situation with Jonathan protecting his friend, David, who is of Jesus' genealogy - Matthew Chapter 1.

47 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I really would like to give warning of the massive storm i see coming and the danger it may cause to brothers and sisters, but no one will talk to me, so there is nothing i can do. i do ask my wife to warn others that danger may be close by, but she refuses to do so. So I'm quite helpless in the matter. If violence happens because of the knowledge that people gain then so be it. I could not talk of it when i was a brother, and now no one will listen. 

The massive storm that is coming is not regarding Child Abuse, John. There is very very serious works that is in play here, something of which to you, to the Jehovah's Witnesses and to everyone else that is deemed outlandish and or surreal, but it seems not everyone is quite vigilant, however, endurance may be at play should things begin to tick by the second.

This works are being done by powerful people of the world, some powerful people who are against and will cause problems of a power struggle that will effect practically every breathing soul on earth, these men and women, children even, are members of Babylon the Great, and there is a substantial about of dark and actual true evidence of this.

That being said, in regards to Child Abuse, any young child who is somehow intertwined with such things, just know they are deemed impossible to help out because it would run risk to you, the victim and or anyone close to you.

An example would be, let's say this, the JW child abuse investigation in the UK, there is also another branch and or group outside the norm that also condones child abuse, and the very people who will tag JWs and everyone else on Child Abuse problems and accusations, will not bother with the unknown or underground groups who too are banking and enforcing child abuse.

Apparently the laws of men plays both sides.

As for violence, it has and will happen for these are among the things that is to take place prior to the conclusion of the end times, if you go back to my other responses to you, I have posted several information of said violence because of child abuse, and you should not be accepting violence because of one's knowing of some information for knowledge and information of something tends to beget a violent response to cause injury and or death - hate crimes and the like.

Other then that, again, Child Abuse is not unknown, nor is it a mystery, a shock or surprise and had magically hindered the inhabitants of the earth. Child Abuse in the days of Noah, to Moses, to now and onward and of course everyone knows this, whether you talk to them about it or not and to condemn a religion that is affected by Child Abuse only gives haters of God more fuel to mock and bash the scriptures and about Christianity.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I will probably stay 'on the outside' for the rest of this year. Things will happen for the Org, and things will happen for me. i left in January, I'll see what i know and feel next January.  

Seeing that the world has not ended and Jesus is nowhere to be found or God's Kingdom on the earth, Child Abuse, violence, famine, earthquakes and natural disasters, murder, rape, homosexuality, war, shadow governments and their actions, Anti-Christ, bad influence and associations, people seeking justice that can not be achieved by man, man driving other men into graves, sadness and crying, mourning, death, etc. will continue as it did in the past and will always continue until the appointed time, as a Christian it is not rocket science to know this solid truth and fact in regards to Scripture regarding the imperfections of the flesh, of man.

What should be your concern is enduring and be in the right for your actions because anyone at any given time can lose their faith and or salvation, hence why it is important to take into account of what Jude 3 says about maintaining faith being a hard fight.

All of us here agree with you on Child Abuse problems and the fact that it is happening to the Jehovah's Witnesses, but at the same time, it is necessary to be wise on the issue at hand and not be subjected to how others are doing things and who are in the wrong for going about a problem, by trying to literal destroy a faith just to stop Child Abuse - not realizing the Child Abuse is happening around the globe in religious and non-religious institutions.

In the end,it will not stop people from joining the JWs because what matters to them is what is to come in the future when Jesus Christ returns and will not stumble in this information of which the bible tells us.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Man has an almost infinite capacity for "justified" cruelty.

As a Barbarian, I fully understand this.

It's often worse when he believes the torment inflicted on others is necessary  "discipline" , and in being the tool of that "discipline", the administrator somehow believes he finds favor with God ... and therefore has and keeps a clear conscience.

He often sleeps well at night, with a smile.

The Catholics used to burn people at the stake while alive as punishment for various heresys, as a means of purifying them ... certainly a "loving" thing to do, to save their souls.

Often unappreciated by the person being burned alive.

People have a tendency to justify all kinds of evil, in the name of righteousness.

Sometimes I am just glad that the Elders don't do Waterboarding, as a "loving" discipline.

.... and woe be the day some Liberal Snowflake comes from Washington in a suit with a big smile, to "help you".

Such are the foibles of the human mind.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My concerns are not what 'men' think of JW Org, but what God thinks of it. I was hoping things would move forward more quickly but it seems I must have patience.  In probably 3 more months things will become more plain for everyone to see. And by the end of the year hopefully God will have sorted the Org out, if indeed He intend to use it at all. 

 

Okay. Fair. See what happens. Do not be a foot soldier for. Do not be a foot soldier against. Be there (ideally at meetings) for your wife and son.

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

What should be your concern is enduring and be in the right for your actions because anyone at any given time can lose their faith and or salvation, hence why it is important to take into account of what Jude 3 says about maintaining faith being a hard fight.

 

Yes.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I really would like to give warning of the massive storm i see coming and the danger it may cause to brothers and sisters, but no one will talk to me, so there is nothing i can do. i do ask my wife to warn others that danger may be close by, but she refuses to do so. So I'm quite helpless in the matter.

Nobody can say that you have not tried. Sit tight and see how it plays out. At the Kingdom Hall even were you to persuade others that the org had dropped the ball, you would you be unlikely to get them to think that wrath from the courts or uprising from the people would improve things. They will think that God will use the present arrangement to clean up whatever mess they have stepped into. Don't be too quick to assume they are wrong. 

At the last Regional was a segment dealing with child sexual abuse. Nobody, but nobody, assembles their entire membership as the GB did and reviews detailed scenarios under which abuse might happen so that parents – the first line of defense - can educate their children and themselves. If they screwed up in the past (and I have not agreed they have) it is hard to imagine anyone atoning for it better.

Especially emphasized was the fact that a perpetrator is likely to be someone a child knows and trusts. If a relative, or friend, or anyone else, seems overly attentive to your child – it is a reason to be watchful, said the program.  If there are tickling sessions, if there are sleepovers, if there are trips alone to the public restroom, if - there were several other scenarios. They are all potential red flags - maybe harmless, but maybe not, and the parent must be aware. “The wise one sees the [potential] calamity approaching and takes action” was the Bible verse repeatedly cited. 

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When i joined the Org i had just been 'released' from a Children's Home where i had suffered sexual, physical and emotional abuse

Okay. Herein is found your new role. Let us do a Luke 22:32 number on you:

that the Lord has "made supplication for you that your faith may not give out; and you, once you have returned, strengthen your brothers."

I think no one will be better equipped to strenthen the ones of Jehovah's people who have suffered abuse then you "once you have returned."

It would appear that there are three facets of the child abuse situation: rehabilitation of victims, punishment of perpetrators, and prevention. Work on the first and the third. Ones who would devote themselves to the second are not lacking for numbers. The second is not nothing, but even when punishment is meted out, it does little to prevent future occurances, as @Space Merchant makes clear, nor heal the victims.

Prevention and rehabilitation is where you can devote your best efforts. In the meantime, be a good support model for your family to lean upon. They (at least your wife) would prefer that you not be in the situation that you are in. But she will support you, if you do not act in a way she considers outragious, if you sit tight, work through a crisis, and see how things unfold.

Most likely the elders, if you have been as forthright with them about your history as you have with us, will do so too. They won't say anything, and some will be more in tune than others, but they will most likely lend silent support as they observe. I get the sense they took no pleasure (they never do) in doing what they thought they had to do.

As to: "As a complete contrast the congregation I joined was so full of peace and what i thought was love. That is why i accepted it so easily. I was naive and looking for security in a wicked world" - don't flush down the drain decades of life. Build upon it.

 

[Noble Berean]

On 3/19/2018 at 4:39 AM, Space Merchant said:

Everyone speaks of pedophilia and child abuse and cover-ups, no matter the faith, the background or affiliation, be it religious or non-religious and when such is done, no such persons hold up to any moral superiority (this is a first of such I have seen), especially in an imperfect world who abuses the gift given to them, the gift of Free-Will.

I wouldn't say it is an acceptance of who is better and who is not. Church organizations tend to be better in theology, scripture, teachings and the like than others, for they are the shepherds to their flock, those who follow such churches are people of different backgrounds, and since most churches tend to Evangelize people regarding what is said in the bible about making disciples and the like and teaching the gospel to a multitude of people. As for Spiritual Paradise, there is still imperfection no matter who the person is.

As for policies, if someone follows what is scriptural, it does not make it messed up, foolish and or ridiculous, for anyone hardpressed in scripture will follow it and live by it, that being said, I take the word of the ARC on how regarding the rules and regulations of said faith and at least come to a conclusion as to the how and why such rules they have are so, in addition to that, if they have information on child abuse to teach to their followers, should the followers accept it, that tells you something, for not many are willing to teach about child abuse unless it actually happens unexpectedly among the community of a faith. Plus elsewhere there has been many, many discussions about the rules, beliefs of other faiths in addition to their policies, with fact and how such is used, I know enough, as do others who really look into it themselves instead of some randoms making a rule out into something that it is not.

As for speaking to the members of said issues, it is up to them if they want to keep it among the leaders within that church location and or tell their members this, only if such is okay with the family/victim and the sake of the victim and guardian of the victim, you have to respect that. Some matters at times are kept private, only known by the leaders and the family of the victim, or should the family state they want to time to heal before anything can be said to others, as for the abuser, what can simply be said is so and so has has removed and or no longer with the church, something along those lines and evidently later on they will know the reason why, but again, depends on those in authority within the church or institution and how the family is involved if their child is victim.

I say this because some parents of victims tend not to want such information disclosed about what they have been through to be made public to local churchgoers, and respecting one's privacy until their ordeal has been dealt with is a a positive thing. Even outside of a church, parents of the victim will have very few and or specific persons of whom they disclosed the information of child abuse to, which will eventually get on the radar of the police, this has been heavily expressed in PSAs regarding child abuse met to teaching adults, teens, and children alike and options available, teaching them of personal spaces, talking to people you trust (talking to adults on what took place, asking of other adults, etc), for anyone in those age groups witness child abuse or know the signs and or dealing with someone who has already been affected, especially when it comes to young ones, unaware of what happen and is confused, keeping the information secret from others and will only express the truth about the abuse to someone that they trust, it could be parents, other than the parents, it could be a friend, a teacher, a neighbor, etc. In the end, it is there choice of how they want to deal with the situation to have  positive outcome for the family and the victim. PSAs and  information can easily be found, I would post some here, but obviously what is said in the PSAs is and will evidently be ignored when the reality and truth is expressed through them.

For there is a saying, respect the wishes of the family, should they choose to go down that route, no matter who they are or what they believe, to go back should said person bring it up only makes you not a trusted person.

But I do strongly agree, Child Abuse is indeed a problem, a big problem, and it is among the branches of other things like human trafficking, sacrifice/killing of children, etc. Other things, even minor things is considered Child Abuse and will result in your own children to be taken away from you, etc. Also you have to also realize it isn't not always an adult that is the abuser, when it comes to that point, it becomes very difficult and complex of how things are dealt with in order to help the victim of this form of child abuse. Another thing to note is you have to be aware that no matter the group or institution, they will most likely do an internal investigation first while on the other hand the victim's family will aid and or seek help outside of the internal investigation if or if not said persons called the police.

An example of internal investigation regarding child abuse, a teacher having had intercourse with a minor outside of school grounds (sometimes on school grounds itself), said teacher had been exposed via internal investigation, 50% of the time it is found out via social media or a high probability due to the student who is the victim. The school will zero in on teacher and fire her, and with what is known, the police is contacted by the school and or the victim's parents when the school informs them of such conduct (often times the parents do the investigation themselves before contacting the police) and not many are made known as to why said teacher was fired until months later down the road when said information is given the green light to be made public with the minor and or major evidence against the abuser, that is, the teacher - rarely is police called immediately when a known abuse is present, especially with the recent cases in both public and religious schools in the US. The teacher, now removed, school continues day in and day out, the victim will return should he chooses to and will seek counsel about his ordeal should he accept it, the parents of the victim will be on high alert and learn about child abuse themselves and or is informed about it by the police.

That being said, internal investigations is pretty much the norm to religious, business, and educational based institutions, and or secondary groups/activities, etc.

Saving face or the trauma of an investigation is really no excuse not to report. It's not just about punishment. By identifying sexual predators, law enforcement can remove the offender from society or monitor his whereabouts. If a child molester isn't reported to police, he can go and do the same evil to another innocent child. In fact, evading punishment can embolden a sexual predator. It's disturbing that predators were able to hop from congregation to congregation leaving a trail of abuse. JWs look to the elders for direction--we know many JWs that await their permission for the most mundane things. But their example shows a resistance to reporting abuse unless the legal system forces their hand. So what does that communicate to these ones? Don't get the police involved. That's read between the lines.

Why resist the authorities that have the means to uncover evidence of wrongdoing? The elders cannot get a warrant to search a person's property--their investigations are reliant on willing testimony. Even with evidence, they can't make an arrest. It seems odd to resist a resource that could potentially expose a predator and keep the congregation clean. 

TBH I think the org decided many years ago to not get involved in child abuse and to put the burden on the family. How often can it be said that a family's choice has authority in this org? This was likely to cover their butts from legal accountability. This means the elders have limited capacity to protect the flock. It's unfortunate that this lawyer attitude has permeated the org. At some point, the org is a beast that behaves with its own self-interests and not the individuals that make up it. The org uses human law more and more to justify it's behavior.

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Saving face or the trauma of an investigation is really no excuse not to report. It's not just about punishment. By identifying sexual predators, law enforcement can remove the offender from society or monitor his whereabouts. If a child molester isn't reported to police, he can go and do the same evil to another innocent child. In fact, evading punishment can embolden a sexual predator. It's disturbing that predators were able to hop from congregation to congregation leaving a trail of abuse. JWs look to the elders for direction--we know many JWs that await their permission for the most mundane things. But their example shows a resistance to reporting abuse unless the legal system forces their hand. So what does that communicate to these ones? Don't get the police involved. That's read between the lines.

Right, there's no excuse to report something at the same time people can choose to take some sort of action and how they go about such action they tend to carry out. Regarding Child Abuse with what is known predators are indeed taken off the streets and or investigated closely by authorities. The reality is, whether an abuser, be it reported, not reported and or under investigation, does any of the crime such as violence, and or molestation, such acts are still done by the abuser prior to his or her capture, far more difficult if the molester and or the one who has done the violence is a child who has abused another child, something of which that is not really talked about but is among one of the forms of child abuse, an example would be as seen in this article: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/what-drives-a-child-to-commit-sexual-abuse-2114974.html

Other:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child-on-child_sexual_abuse

Evading punishment does not embolden a pedophile, for it is fact and evident that in the past and to now and onward, sexual predators have and will use various tactics to earn the trust of the targeted victim(s) and those that the victim is close to, be it parents, churchgoers, school peers, etc. One of the signs is that sexual predators with said trust can gain access to their victim easily for the victim suspects nothing, the most common case is if the predator buys gifts for the victim, volunteer to stand in as a guardian for the victim and so forth - something of which they cannot do unless they earn the trust of anyone connected to the victim and when the moment comes, these sexual predators take action when the victim is alone, for that is the goal for any of their tactics, to get the victim alone in one way or another, at times in the realm of Child Abuse in religion, predators, specifically Traffickers, use the Bible in order to lure children and those who are victim will be subjected to other things far worse than Child Abuse. Believe it or not, even in the Dark Internet (Deep Web) tactics are often shared,  and other vile things that is spread throughout the dark corners of such a space.

That being said, predators within the Jehovah's Witnesses do not stem too far from the tree, for like all predators, they go to a place where children is readily accessible, earn the trust of others, buy gifts even, and since this is a religious institution, they will attempt to hold some sort of position inside. The victim will not suspect a thing nor will the others, and seeing how JWs are known pacifist, their kindness and caring nature tend to be exploited quite easily, for as some have said, Christians who display a lot of love are easily exploitable, in the eyes of a predator, all they see is suckers for punishment who are gullible. Predators will usually move on to their next victim or another area after their actions to the first victim, to them it is like a game, a hunger to seek out other victims, using their status and or position as well as knowledge to trick another group of people, and find more victims to prey on, and they continue this cycle, should they find themselves being clumsy, they tend to jump off grid until they are tracked.

One of the reasons as to why real enemies of Christianity not only promote Child Abuse, but they are in literal back-flipping joy when Child abuse allegations is affecting religion, taking advantage of the child sex allegations.

Jehovah's Witnesses and church leaders of each of their church reflect what Jesus said about Shepherds to a Flock being one. As with any church, a churchgoer, one of the flock, will see guidance and or advice from those who are heads of the church, the shepherd, Deacons, Elders, Priests, Pastors, whichever you want to call them, so it is understandable as to why they are like this - for the bible says so.

I wouldn't call it resistance, for such things a church tends to handle things internally is within grounds of church discipline and any scriptural law/rules that they follow, so to speak. The only issue is when Child Abuse happens, those who are caught in the mess do not know how to deal with it and attempt to go about it thinking they are doing good in trying to figure things out, and clearly not ever church leader is experienced in dealing with Child Abuse, it is like saying if you are a church leader and found out about child to child abuse, since the abuser is below the age of 13, you will clearly be inexperienced to deal with that matter when police themselves suspects the abuser is an adult, when clearly that is not the case, on my end, I do have that experience and can recognize the signs, in addition to actually talking with people who were subjected to it.

All in all, JWs will just have to be educated on Child Abuse more effectively, they have publications on the subject that can easily be found, and if they can, they can talk with others to recognize the signs or speak to those with experience, so that way, things can be handled by the individual church swiftly and quickly with succession. That being said, ironically, pertaining to what Tom have stated, Child Abuse among JWs is low when all areas of which JWs have their churches and or found is very low, some areas there is little to no Child Abuse and or violence, places of which I had already made known to John earlier on.

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Why resist the authorities that have the means to uncover evidence of wrongdoing? The elders cannot get a warrant to search a person's property--their investigations are reliant on willing testimony. Even with evidence, they can't make an arrest. It seems odd to resist a resource that could potentially expose a predator and keep the congregation clean. 

No. for they are obligated to follow the law of the land - but the law of the land itself cannot counter the law of God, for the law of God is the principle of which Christians follow within Christendom which is the polar opposite of mainstream Christianity who are willing to change what is written to be different, perhaps gain new converts which is the case in our day and age. To follow what the scripture say and suddenly resist contradicts one's faith easily. That being said, another thing within the realm of Child Abuse, if so and so has little to no evidence of what took place, nor have information to back it up, one key element is living evidence, which is the victim him or herself - for they can speak of what took place to a trusted adult, as instructed by those who teach the signs of child abuse regarding the victim, if one adult is unable to help and or offers little aid, tell another adult. There is also instruction if one police officer and or someone of authority is in the same position, You can go up the chain, so to speak for if the victim and or trusted adult feel that their complaint isn’t being taken seriously or if one feels  uncomfortable, the victim and or trusted adult can ask to speak to a supervisor or the next-highest ranking officer, again another adult.

Children will tend to speak to those they feel comfortable around and who is trusted. As for those who they speak this to, some will go above and beyond to do what is necessary, others will give advice and give guidance to the victim on what to do next, some will contact someone else to handle the issue because they at times tend not to get involved because they are uncomfortable persons, etc.

All individuals are different and go about such subjects differently and are not the kinds of people to not resist for even the police knows of such tendencies of those who tend to be surprised and or uncomfortable of such things revolving around child abuse. Now with parents, they have to go about things the right way in order to not entice fear in the victim, their child and or children, the case tends to be different if a relative and or family member is the abuser. Some families also want to keep things private and not cause a stir to other families and or people within the community - hence why is is crucial to respect the privacy and wishes of the family in this regard.

I need not to post a literal source to this because it is common sense, especially if you know the views and backgrounds of people who suffer minor to major abuse and or some form of violence and or tragedies. In the end, you take aim and guide your arrow to the root of the problem that is child abuse and the individual involved, not the people who are not involved and technically bystanders.

This is why those who are wise knows how to deal with the problem that is child abuse than those who want to burn everything down thinking that it is a just cause, to make matters worse, what they see as just they assume God wants them to do such things - very wrong and false on their part for thinking so, thus making the real enemies out there gain strength and number to really have it in for Christianity.

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

TBH I think the org decided many years ago to not get involved in child abuse and to put the burden on the family. How often can it be said that a family's choice has authority in this org? This was likely to cover their butts from legal accountability. This means the elders have limited capacity to protect the flock. It's unfortunate that this lawyer attitude has permeated the org. At some point, the org is a beast that behaves with its own self-interests and not the individuals that make up it. The org uses human law more and more to justify it's behavior.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any choice, child abuse is like the Black Plague, to make it even worse, pedophilia and the sexual urges to children is like a curse, a demon, if you will, a person is afflicted by an cannot expel it, you'd be surprised of how many of them, who do not enact their vile urges on  child tend to see out professional help from those who know of the psychiatric disorder, and or do themselves a favor by getting away of children, self-isolation, which seems to be the case for some, others who have committed suicide, not wanting to harm a child and thinking that death is the only way out. Taking this into mind you have to see the world for what it really is - the price we pay for imperfection. To a degree, this world is a mess and a day will come when all that mess will be cleaned up,and child abuse will not be the very thing we worry about before we sleep. To make matters even worse, your biggest problem is that pedophilia and child abuse is being normalized, accepted in today's society, that in itself, as you said, emboldens predators, as well as those fighting such urges to snap and turn and becoming a monster that they tried not to be. I said this here before, Child grooming and marriage is seen as right - for children who were molested, raped, are forced to marry their rapist because it is now law in some parts of the US, and it is all over the place in the UK and EU countries, elsewhere, you have the underground where the most vile and sick things take place by real people of Babylon the Great that will not only rape and kill their victims, but the children of their victims should any child be born.

With that said, the Jehovah's Witnesses, like everyone else, is but a bird in crossfire, and obviously will end up taking a hit, which seems to be the case. To them however, they will attempt to deal with the situation at hand, but at the same time, they cannot and will not break biblical law to appease men, regardless of any legal action and or accountability - for if they had went around God's law or Paul's action of Civil Disobedience, as did Ra'hab and several others, they would end up like the mainstream Christians who are not really Christians at all compared to JWs, in addition, their strict following of the bible, as I told John, is borderline Nazarite Vow level, if you know what that is and how important it was. Family's do have choices, hence Child Abuse Prevention and identifying the Signs from various information and sources that are public to help minimize and or deal with child abuse, for if you tell someone about it, you can tell someone else, no one is preventing anyone from going to the police or to others to speak on the issue - it didn't stop parents from going about the issue of child abuse, even doing a bit of investigation for themselves reaping minor and or major evidence when teachers in educational institutions, mostly female teachers, who had sexually abuse, offered drugs and or gave their child alcohol. To the parents who are against child abuse, this is deemed a victory, and the school who had helped and or helped a little, did what they can do support for like others, they tend to be caught off guard, some did internal investigations of their own while helping some parents. Sadly, the law has given a free pass to female predator(s) that is, as they say, a perfect 10, because of looks, at times a feeble attempt of regret and repentance before the judge, obviously a double standard to male predators - justice system is a failed one.

Believe me, one can identify a beast when they see it, and it is not the Jehovah's Witnesses, last I recall, they were not among the Christians who literally handed over Syranic Christians over to ISIS, as well as contributors to child marriage laws and the like. That fact that you consider them or their church as the beasts just proves how people in today's society are more doom of what is soon to be seen due to not being vigilant and aware, that being said, a Restoration Christian group to be a beast is not only laughable, but lacks substance. In addition, the real hands of the beast are indeed at work if you paid any attention of what was going on for the past several years, for instance, the Summer of 2016, the events that took place prior to the JW ban in 2017, which indeed prove true since Vladimir Putin was reelected as president for the win was of little effort. All I can say about that remark of yours, is you are not ready for what a majority of us Christians know, I say this to JWs too, but they tend to be the more enduring ones, while others are more vigilant and ready.

And what are these human laws that they use? Restorationist follow religious law 100%, but if you are willing to post them, it would be wise to do so. Other then that, all Christians follow the laws of the land, but never ever will they allow the laws of the land to override God's law - for there is no type of laws that is above the Law of the one who is watching down over us.

God even says not to add, change or remove from the word.

Jesus stated the Scriptures cannot be broken.

Both of them are obviously in the right for saying such, for even man cannot break what is written, unless they are anti-Christian or mainstream Christians.

Anyways, take aim at the problem and those who contribute to it, not the people, this is the words of a UK native - who is against child grooming and child abuse.

That being said, people who know the laws agree with what the ARC say and made known about the JWs, and such information is public so it is readily easy to fact check anyone spouting something that is incorrect, and or anyone who has that Rick Wiles mentality.

 

The people know, friend, and they are not bashing JWs, they are gunning for the pedophiles found in the faith, as well as pedophiles who has been spread throughout all institutions known to man and even the very laws of which the US, the UK, and parts of EU that allows child grooming.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Noble Berean Wow a breath of sense in this crazy conversation. Have a nice day. 

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Posted 3 hours ago

 

Saving face or the trauma of an investigation is really no excuse not to report. It's not just about punishment. By identifying sexual predators, law enforcement can remove the offender from society or monitor his whereabouts. If a child molester isn't reported to police, he can go and do the same evil to another innocent child. In fact, evading punishment can embolden a sexual predator. It's disturbing that predators were able to hop from congregation to congregation leaving a trail of abuse. JWs look to the elders for direction--we know many JWs that await their permission for the most mundane things. But their example shows a resistance to reporting abuse unless the legal system forces their hand. So what does that communicate to these ones? Don't get the police involved. That's read between the lines.

Why resist the authorities that have the means to uncover evidence of wrongdoing? The elders cannot get a warrant to search a person's property--their investigations are reliant on willing testimony. Even with evidence, they can't make an arrest. It seems odd to resist a resource that could potentially expose a predator and keep the congregation clean. 

Thank you so much Noble Berean, I've been saying similar for a long time but no one listens..... 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

You know, it is hard for me to believe -  I mean, I grapple with it, but cannot escape the idea - and I specifically exclude @JOHN BUTLER from this and a handful of others who are right on top of the trees and so have not the best vantage point for contemplating the forest - that the true purpose of all condemnation of the GB's oversight is to slow down or, ideally, stop the preaching of the good news. 

Beyond all question, that is the effect. It is hard for me to believe that is not also the intent

That is not to say it is even the deliberate intent of those who weigh in critically - it is easy to get caught up in a cause. However the effect is undeniably to thwart what Jesus said at Matthew 24:14 or turn it into a bland nothing with no power.

Maybe I am missing something, but If they say they abhor child sexual abuse, if they assembled every member in the world at Regionals to educate them in prevention, and if they have achieved a prevention record 10 times that of anyone else, I do not see how they can be portrayed as the villains. I just don't. Temporarily lost footing in a windstorm - perhaps - but by no stretch of the imagination villains.

I see it as an overall attack on the spread of the good news, made by persons or entities desperate that it not be told, no different in principle than the Russian ban, where sexual abuse charges played absolutely no role at all.

That is not to say that the flashpoint is bogus, but only that it is being pumped up beyond all reason.

There is something in the air of this system of things to tear down anything that is an accomplishment. Mark Zuckerberg had better step very carefully, for there are some who would crucify him in the afermath of Cambridge Analytica. Did anyone read his apology in its entirety and not just sound bytes that are selected to further differing agendas of those who report it? It sure sounded genuine to me - he says he does not deserve our business if he cannot do better - and responsible, and he immediately launched corrective measures.

It is not enough. It will never be enough. Read how he is being reviled. He will apologize to his grave and it will not satisfy those who do not like him or Facebook.

[Witness]

“Babylon” is an influential climate that holds power over one’s heart. 1 Cor 4:5 There is not one physical location on the earth where it isn’t found.  We can’t move from one organization to another, one religion to another and say, we’ve stepped out of “Babylon”.  Just as the New Covenant is represented by a “woman”/promise, Babylon is also represented by a “woman”.  Rev 17:4,5 (Gal 4:26-28)  Her “daughters” are Harlots, manifested in individuals; spiritually immoral false “prophets” who are under the woman covenant of death.  In the Watchtower, they are “fallen stars”/anointed Rev 8:10,11 (Matt 5:14,15; Phil 2:15; Dan 12:3) who “poison” with false teachings. 

Babylon is the power of the air, demonic exhalations that we can “breathe” in; resulting not in the promise of life, but death.    WT has taught this.  So…why would they say entering the organization is leaving Babylon, since it exhibits the same injustices as any other world entity.  It is obvious here that its members continually compare it as, in a sense, the “lesser of the two evils”. 

Every wayward teaching of the Wt. is sourced in this spirit.  James 3:15-18  It must be admitted that discarded teachings do not have their beginnings in the “light of the world” – Jesus Christ, since there is no sharing of light with darkness.  2 Cor 6:14-18

“As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, ² in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. ³ All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. ⁴ But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, ⁵ made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”  Eph 2:1-5

We are to recognize this power in individuals and walk away. 2 Cor 11:4

 ^“Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”  Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.”

 God will not change the direction of the Watchtower ’s "kingdom”; since it is fully, part of the world.  John 18:36  It fights its battles as the world does, relying on the governments to turn matters in its favor, something it has always practiced.  God changes individuals who turned to His Son; who in this dark world, is the only source of light.  The Father will not restructure or renew an entity that mimics, in every way – the world. 

There are two conflicting battles of authority – Satan’s, and Christ’s, who has conquered death. 

 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”  Matt 28:18

“The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. ⁶ And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. ⁷ If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

⁸ Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’” Luke 4:5-8

John B. mentioned….”brothers and sisters that serve the org.”  If one views serving the organization as serving God, is it not the same as serving an idol?  Acts 17:25  The end time deception coming against the anointed ones challenges the words of Christ in Luke, by convincing millions to serve the “cravings of our flesh”, its “desires and thoughts” as Eph 2:1-5 speaks of. To mask the deception, a “preaching work” is established, but this preaching is done in error.  Therefore, Michael stands up for his anointed “kings of the earth” who are deceived by the power of the air. Rev 13:1,4

 Michael means, “Who is Like God”? Dan 12:1; Rev 12:7-9  The Beast from “sea” of mankind (Rev 13:1) that comes against and surrounds the holy ones/anointed, boasts there is nothing like it – “Who is like the Beast?” This is the Watchtower’s teachings;  there is nothing to come against “Jehovah’s organization.” Rev 13:6,7 Thus, it challenges the authority of God – exactly what Satan has planned. Watchtower’s spurious allegations go beyond Christ’s words, expecting devotion to another Master.  Matt 6:24; Deut 4:2; 12:32; Rev 22:18   

The GB will be ousted by the organization. “Her” skirts will be lifted to expose her shame.  Jer 13:20-23 This doesn’t mean a time of everlasting renewal, since the organization will function only a short time. Rev 17:12-18 A new composite leadership of both anointed and spiritual “Gentile” elders will rule “for one hour”. When Christ said, “come out of her, my people, this includes both anointed and all…to LEAVE.  We leave “confusion”, deception, false teachings…behind.  The only “safe haven” for our hearts is found with God and Christ.   Rev 18:4-8

 ^“Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.  Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. ¹² For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.¹³ Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. ¹⁴ Stand firm then, with the belt of truth (not a partial truth, but in Christ, who is Truth) buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, (protecting the heart) and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.  In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, (not found through serving an organization) with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.  Take the helmet of salvation (not from an organization) and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”  Eph 6:10-17

Using those scriptures during a judicial meeting is enough to get one disfellowshipped.  Rev 13:11-14-17

John, you are proof that it is quite possible to serve the Father and His Son without men stipulating your each and every move.  I once talked with a JW who had been disfellowshipped, and he admitted that his relationship with the Father became closer since at that point he relied fully on Him.  Under pressure, he returned to the org and lost what he had gained.  Our only Mediator is Jesus Christ, not 8 men who believe they hold power over millions of souls.  That type of power is sourced in another spirit other than Holy Spirit.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

When the world galvanizes for the child abuse investigators to probe Jehovah's Witnesses ... I hope it is not like how the Grey Aliens probe the cows.

[Anna]

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Tom says, to try to keep the Org clean, or, was it to be able to hide all the info in one place ? 

If they wanted to hide it, wouldn't it have been easier to not even document it? Or if it was documented, wouldn't it have been better to destroy it?

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why didn't the Governing Body follow the instruction from God as written in Romans 13 v 1 through 7.

There were no specific laws on how to handle child sexual molestation put in place by governments for a long time. It is relatively recently where governments have begun to investigate this problem in an effort to implement effective remedies.

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

The California court, which surely represents the government, demanded the documents that the JW Org / GB had concerning Child Abuse within the JW Org USA. By opposing the court the Governing Body were in fact opposing God. The scripture proves that. 

As far as I am aware Zalkin has many of the documents already, but has been ordered by the court to keep them confidential, and locked up. I am no lawyer but it's evidently not just a simple matter of handing over documents that's the problem. 

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

So in times of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect  the enemy by hiding the truth". This article also leads people into the way of thinking that telling lies is OK if you are doing it to protect the Organisation. 

And in my opinion that is what the GB think, and also practice today. 

How you think the GB apply this to pedophiles makes no sense. How would "hiding" the truth about pedophiles protect the organization? The principle of "hiding the truth from enemies" or from those "who had no right to know" was to protect lives. Pedophiles, just like any other Witnesses who are Witnesses in name only, bring shame to the org. but nobody is that naive to believe that these individuals do not exist within the org. and hopefully no one is that dumb to believe that such individuals are purposefully protected and shielded from punishment. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@TrueTomHarley Wow I can comment on this one but not the one i wanted to comment on. Is it possible to be blocked from commenting on a topic ?  Hi Tom I see you are still mentioning me in comments though