Jesus' Self-Witness

[Cos]

One of the most striking features of the teachings of Jesus is that He was constantly talking about Himself. And to enter into the Kingdom depends on how we respond to Him personally; He even called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom”.

 

This self teaching of Jesus is one of the first things that set Jesus apart from the other religious teachers of the world. Jesus points people to Himself saying “I am the truth; follow me” No other founder of the world religions would dare say such a thing and expect to be taken seriously.

 

The personal pronouns that Jesus uses force us to pay attention.

 

"I am the bread of life…” (John 6:35)

 

"I am the light of the world…" (John 8:12)

 

"I am the resurrection and the life…”  (John 11:25)

 

The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).

 

Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.

 

Jesus offered Himself as someone in whom His contemporaries should put their faith in and to whom they should offer their love to. People are to believe in God – Jesus urged them that to have eternal life people are to believe in Him (John 3:36).

 

So when we look at the biblical evidence for the true Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ one cannot help noticing Jesus’ own self-consciousness witness of Himself, in other words, His self-understanding…what did Jesus think and believe about Himself?

 

Let’s have a look at what Jesus says about Himself and whether what He says reflects a consciousness of being Deity?

 

Keep in mind that what follows is NOT an exhaustive study, but just a brief expose of the topic.

 

In Mark 2:5-10 we read: “When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’  Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, ‘Why are you thinking these things?  Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'?  But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins....’"

 

When the paralytic was lowered through the roof by his four friends, Jesus did not respond with a comment about the man’s physical condition or his need of healing. Rather, his initial comment was, “your sins are forgiven”. The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

 

What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD! Notice that He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

 

The reaction of the Jews shows that they interpreted Jesus’ words that He was exercising the prerogative that belong to God alone (see Isa, 43:25). Here was an excellent opportunity for Jesus to correct the scribes if they had misunderstood the significance of His words. Note that He did not. In fact His response is highly enlightening for He goes on to claims that He has that prerogative of God, notice also how Jesus knew their thoughts; only God can know the thoughts of men (Acts 15:8; 2 Chron. 6:29; 1 Kings 8:38). More can be said but I’ll leave that for another time. <><

 

 

 

 

 

[Evacuated]

13 hours ago, Cos said:

But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins

Matt 28:18: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth....

John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,..."

Hi Cos. See you are still battling on. These scriptures don't really need exposition do they?

By the way, I see you are referenced as female on the forum somewhere. Is that a fact or a misunderstanding? 

[TrueTomHarley]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD!

What we have is nothing of the sort.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

It's a good thing you didn't write any of the Bible. What a dull book it would be.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

I guess they were about to learn a thing or two, weren't they? Not only can God do it - his Son can also.

[JW Insider]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

So we should think like the scribes?

[Space Merchant]

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

One of the most striking features of the teachings of Jesus is that He was constantly talking about Himself. And to enter into the Kingdom depends on how we respond to Him personally; He even called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom”.

OK.

Also, Isaiah 9:6, Daniel 2:44, Daniel 7:14, as well as the interesting bit from Zechariah in regards to the Copper (Bronze/Brass) Mountains - in regards to what Jesus said in John 18:36.

We also have to remember that Jesus, the Messianic King, is God's chosen Christ and the one to be seated at the throne, or in this case, the throne of David (hence God's promise of a descendant of King David)

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

This self teaching of Jesus is one of the first things that set Jesus apart from the other religious teachers of the world. Jesus points people to Himself saying “I am the truth; follow me” No other founder of the world religions would dare say such a thing and expect to be taken seriously.

True, but you have to take into account of Jesus' very command to his Disciples, who in turn, to their students share this information with them as well, hence the early Christians, the early Church. We cannot be ignorant and ignore such things totally - for, it is in the very scriptures itself.

We must also take into account also that the Teachings of Jesus is not of his own, nor did it originate with him. Jesus, representative of the Father by means of Shaliah Principle, is the flesh, the man who teachings the Father's Spoken Word, for Jesus himself speaks the Word, that comes from the Father, hence him being in union with his God/Father in Heaven.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The personal pronouns that Jesus uses force us to pay attention.

"I am the bread of life…” (John 6:35)

"I am the light of the world…" (John 8:12)

"I am the resurrection and the life…”  (John 11:25)

The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).

Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.

What needs to be taken into account is what the verses actually cross-reference to. Also, without further explanation I will just post them as is:

Cf to John 6:35

• John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
• John 7:37 - On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.
• Revelation 22:17 - The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

Note: The very expression is used twice in scripture, we see it in this verse, 35, and we see it again in verse 48. In this context, life has an obvious reference, and it makes refers to everlasting/eternal life - John 6:40, 47, 54. In this discussion, Jesus refers to he  himself as the bread from heaven as we see in John 6:32, and in verse 33 we see the bread of God in John 6:33, and lastly, we see the living bread in John 6:51. We see that Jesus himself points out that the Israelites were given the manna as a source of food while in the wilderness, which we can clearly read here at Nehemiah 9:20. We also know that, if we are to be honest with ourselves to be aware of this passage, that this provided food, manna, did not sustain their lives for very long -  John 6:49. In comparison, the followers of the Christ, faithful and true, have the availability heavenly manna and or bread of life -  John 6:48-51, 58, which makes it totally possible for them to sustain their lives, thus living forever. They eat of this bread by exercising faith in the power that is redeeming in Jesus’ flesh and blood that he sacrificed.

Cf. John 8:12

• Isaiah 9:2 - The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shone.
• Isaiah 49:6 - he says: “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”
• Matthew 4:16 - the people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.”
• John 1:5 - The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
• John 1:9 - The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
• John 12:35 - So Jesus said to them, “The light is among you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going.
• John 12:46 - I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
• 1 Peter 2:9 - But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
• 1 John 2:8 - At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

Note: Jesus, in regards to the main verse, is using a metaphor - the light of the world. He used it to describe he himself may have reminded his listeners about the four giant lamp stands in the Court of the Women:

The court of the women (Hebrew: עזרת הנשים‬ Ezrat HaNashim or עזרת נשים‬ Ezrat Nashim) was the outer forecourt of the Temples in Jerusalem into which women were permitted to enter. The court was also known as the "middle court," as it stood between the Court of the Gentiles and the court of Israel, i.e. the court of the men.

which were lit during the Festival of Booths , take a look at John 7:2. The light  illuminates the surroundings to a greatly and in addition, pertaining to what Jesus had said, light of the world, equals to passages from the foretells of Isaiah, of which spoken of a great light that would be seen by those dwelling in the land of deep shadow and that the one referred to as Jehovah's/Yahweh’s servant (Servant of Elohim/YHWH) would be a light of the nations - Isaiah 9:1, 2 and 42:1, 6 and 49:6. Now let us get on to the Sermon on the Mount. There, we learn that Jesus used the same metaphor when he addressed his followers, saying: You are the light of the world. - Matthew 5:14. That same expression fits smoothly like a puzzle piece in regards to Isaiah’s words about the Messiah, the man who is the Christ, Jesus, being a light of the nations. In Acts 13:46, 47, we learn that both Paul and Barnabas affirmed these prophetic words we see in Isaiah 49:6, practically a command to all followers of the Christ to continue to serve as a light to all the nations. Jesus’ preaching of the gospel and that of his followers would enlighten and show the people spiritually and rescue them from the likes of false religious and or accursed teachings.

Cf. John 11:25

Psalms 13:3 - Consider and answer me, O Lord my God; light up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death,

Matthew 9:24 - he said, “Go away, for the girl is not dead but sleeping.” And they laughed at him.

Acts 7:59, 60 - And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6 - Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

Note: This one is pretty straightforward, I am the resurrection and the life (also before this it is I know He will Rise and Fallen Asleep). Jesus’ own death and resurrection enabled that the dead can return to life. After Jesus was resurrected, His Father, Yahweh/Jehovah, granted him the power not only to resurrect those among the dead, but also to impart eternal life - John 5:26, for just like the Father who has this ability to do so in regards to giving life, he granted such to the Son also, hence what is said in this verse. At Revelations 1:18, Jesus calls himself  as the the living one, who has the keys of death and of the Hades (Sheol, Hell, Pit, etc.).Therefore, Jesus is indeed the hope of both the living and the dead. For Jesus promised to open up the tombs and give those in death one thing - life during the time of the new creation, in this case, the new heavens and the new earth whereas Jesus will do as such alongside those who will co-rule with him, under the rule by his heavenly government and the Messianic Kingdom.—John 5:28, 29 and  2 Peters 3:13.

Also we cannot forget, that Jesus had God given authority and power. We know this by reading Matthew 28:18:

• And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

We also get to see it as such as it is referenced here, I believe last time we debated I mentioned this to you and rook, anyways, Ephesians 1:20:21 and Philippians 2:9, 10, which reads as follow:

Ephesians 1:20:21

Thanksgiving and Prayer

(20) that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Philippians 2:9, 10

Christ's Example of Humility

(9) Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, (10) so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The great question on Jesus’ teachings about Himself leads to Him asking, “Who do you say that I am?” (Matt. 16:15).

Jesus had such a strong opinion of Himself, it is not surprise that he should call people to Himself, “Come to me” and “Follow me”.

Actually in Matthew 16:15 he was covering with his disciples, to which he was talking about who the people think the Christ is whereas Peter made his response, since Peter was the only person to bring up said response on the following verse, 16 (Matthew 16:16).

His response as followed: Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

We also know that Jesus was also teaching a lesson to his disciples as well in the majority of this chapter, and into what the church actually is.

Summarized:

• The Pharisees and Sadducees Demand Signs 1-4
• The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees 5-12
• Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ 13-20
• Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection 21-23
• Take Up Your Cross and Follow Jesus 24-28

Outlined:

• Pharisees and Sadducees ask for a sign from heaven (16:1-4)
• Jesus warns against leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees (16:5-12)
• Peter identifies Jesus as the Christ (16:13-17)
• Jesus gives Peter the keys of the Kingdom (16:18-20)
• Jesus foretells his death and resurrection (16:21-23)
• Requirements of true discipleship (16:24-28)

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

Jesus offered Himself as someone in whom His contemporaries should put their faith in and to whom they should offer their love to. People are to believe in God – Jesus urged them that to have eternal life people are to believe in Him (John 3:36).

Yes, pretty straightforward to: One who exercises faith in the Son will get eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, pretty much not getting the reward that is eternal life, and in situation, they will instead have the wrath of God the Father upon them which will remain.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

So when we look at the biblical evidence for the true Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ one cannot help noticing Jesus’ own self-consciousness witness of Himself, in other words, His self-understanding…what did Jesus think and believe about Himself?

Shaliah Principle and that the Word of which Jesus peaks originates from the Father, for what Jesus does is because the Father is with him.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

Let’s have a look at what Jesus says about Himself and whether what He says reflects a consciousness of being Deity?

Keep in mind that what follows is NOT an exhaustive study, but just a brief expose of the topic.

OK.

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

When the paralytic was lowered through the roof by his four friends, Jesus did not respond with a comment about the man’s physical condition or his need of healing. Rather, his initial comment was, “your sins are forgiven”. The reaction of the scribes indicates the meaning they attached to his words: "Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

What we have is a strong statement of divine authority, and the context shows that it was a blasphemous assertion IF HE WAS NOT GOD! Notice that He does not answer their charges with a "Hold on now! I am not claiming to be God! I am claiming something less!"--not at all!

We also cannot ignore Jesus immediate response after what was said in Mark 2:7. When such was said, we see that in the following verse, we read, Mark 2:8:

• And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts?

By his spirit in himself  and or in his own mind - for Jesus, if we take into account what the Greek says, is in reference to Jesus’ perceptive abilities, in this sense. For he was quick to discern what was said. We also know more about this in regard to what Jesus was able to discern by means of thinking, reasoning, and motives of others - John 2:24, 25.

Plus those men, if you check for cross-references were referring to the laws of the land. This is why this very verse (Mark 2:7) points to 2 other verses we are aware of: John 10:33 and Acts 6:11:

• John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself a God.”
• Acts 6:11 - Then they secretly instigated men who said, “We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses and God.”

There is no question without a doubt that these men were not totally unaware of the laws of which they follow as well as knowing who their God and Father is, since we know in the laws of Moses how forgiveness of Sin went down, bu in the New Testament we know that Jesus, the Son of God, is capable of Forgiveness of Sin also, for we know what and who the Christ is and what is his role, so it is safe to say that these men themselves knew that Forgiveness of Sin requires things such a s burnt offerings and the like, but were obviously astounded by this man called Jesus.

Jesus was claiming to the law of the Jews if you are referring to what I think you are, no law indicates a man is and or a God, but rather, a god and or godlike for that is what the Most High had called his children in heaven, as well as on earth, as well as the Jews who abide by these laws, so the reaction of some is no surprise.

Anyways the continuation of Mark 2:9-12 it reads:

• (9) Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? (10) But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— (11) “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.” (12) And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!” (see Matthew 9:33, John 7:31, and John 9:32)

On 4/22/2018 at 4:18 AM, Cos said:

The reaction of the Jews shows that they interpreted Jesus’ words that He was exercising the prerogative that belong to God alone (see Isa, 43:25). Here was an excellent opportunity for Jesus to correct the scribes if they had misunderstood the significance of His words. Note that He did not. In fact His response is highly enlightening for He goes on to claims that He has that prerogative of God, notice also how Jesus knew their thoughts; only God can know the thoughts of men (Acts 15:8; 2 Chron. 6:29; 1 Kings 8:38). More can be said but I’ll leave that for another time. <><

Yes, but we should be aware of the reaction itself and not think it to be something entirely different, for instance when Jesus quote what is written when the Jews wanted to stone him to death and the like, as well as their so called influence.

Also 2 Chronicles 6:29 speaks of a request for favors in regards to Solomon’s prayer of inauguration, 1 Kings 8:38 in regards to Solomon’s prayer of temple dedication, Isaiah 43:25 is in regards to a people bringing a case against each other. Other then that, it would have been wise to take a read at the references of Acts 15:8 on your part, which is correct, but those point to verses like 1 Chronicles 28:9 and Jeremiah 11:20 to name a few.

(I myself will double check the other ones, for they seem odd to be references in your response, but I agree with you on Acts 15:8 for it is, in the realm of hermeneutics, spot on and correct regarding God the Father, however, there are separate verses pertaining to how Jesus also having such ability in terms of reading one's heart, as well as those who acquire discernment and understanding - so I wouldn't say it is limited to God and or Jesus, per-say.)

Jesus can understand the thinking, reasoning and the though of men, just like his Father is able to do so as well as those with the ability of discernment to find understanding, something of which that is acquired by an obvious means.

I will quote myself from my previous response whereas the following is said: Jesus was able to discern by means of thinking, reasoning, and motives of others - John 2:24, 25.

The verses state the following:

Jesus Knows What Is in Man

• (24) But Jesus on his part did not entrust himself to them, because he knew all people (25) and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man.

Jesus has such an excellent ability to do as such because he was able to discern the thinking, reasoning, and motives of humans, in this regard, regardless of the sex, age, background, experience, status, etc. of said person. This was foretold by the prophet Isaiah, who spoke about the Messiah, for he said: "And the Spirit of the Lord [YHWH] shall rest upon him (A), the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord [YHWH]. And his delight shall be in the fear of the Lord [YHWH]. He shall not judge by what his eyes see, or decide disputes by what his ears hear," - Isaiah 11:2, 3.

• [A] Isaiah 42:1, John 1:32, and Acts 10:38

We already seen this in action as to what Jesus' actions were in Mark 2:8, now lets take a look at Matthew 9:4, which reads:

• But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts?

So it is safe to say how and why Jesus was able to discern such men who said such things, for the bible teaches such and it can be read in the very scriptures.

The truth has been given, do what you will with said truth.

[Cos]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:15 AM, Gone Away said:

Matt 28:18: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth....

John 5:22: "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son,..."

Hi Cos. See you are still battling on. These scriptures don't really need exposition do they?

By the way, I see you are referenced as female on the forum somewhere. Is that a fact or a misunderstanding? 

Hello Gone,

 

You changed your pseudonym I see, if you don’t mind I’ll just call you “Gone” from now on as it’s a lot easier, OK?

 

Firstly, I’m happy to hear that you are still following along on the other thread, stay tuned as there is much, much more evidence coming.

 

Like the names Jamie or Chris, my name can be applied to both sexes. So is the person calling me a sister correct? For me it really is irrelevant. You know I could also ask, because you hide under your own nom de plume, are you male or female? Does it really matter anyway?

 

Back to business; Jesus come as a man (John 1:14), and in doing so lay aside His former prerogatives (Phil. 2:6-8). This is clear from the Scriptures, Jesus is fully man, and therefore things such as authority must be given to one who is as much man as you and me. This is not in dispute.

 

But you missed the fact that Jesus does not deny the inner thoughts of the scribes, instead He claims that very privilege of God for Himself, and that is what my post is getting at. Remember Jesus called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom” and tells His contemporaries to put their faith in Him, and to Him they should offer their love. Bold words from someone you say is a creature. <><

[Cos]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:38 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

What we have is nothing of the sort.

Mr. Harley

 

Please provide your reasoning for why you say that. I did! <><

[Cos]

On ‎4‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:59 AM, JW Insider said:

So we should think like the scribes?

Hello JW insider,

 

Did the scribes reason correctly is what you are getting at, right? As I told “Gone” the fact is Jesus does not deny their inner thoughts, He nowhere rebuffs what they were thinking, which He could have done. I hope that helps. <><

[Cos]

Folks,

 

The Scriptures show that Jesus claimed other prerogatives of God as well. Jesus even made direct claims. We note, in examining the Gospels, that the claims become more explicit in the latter stages of His ministry. In the beginning He allowed the people to draw inferences about Him from the power of His moral teaching and His miracles. In the later portions, however, the focus is much more upon Himself.

 

In Matthew 25:31-46 He speaks of judging the world. He will sit on His glorious throne and divide the sheep from the goats. The power of judging the spiritual condition and assigning the eternal destiny of all people belongs to Him.

 

Certainly this is something which only God can exercise.

 

The authority which Jesus claimed and exercised is also clearly seen with respect to the Sabbath.

 

The sacredness of the Sabbath had been established by God (Exod. 20:8-11). Only God could abrogate or modify this regulation. Yet consider what happened when Jesus’ disciples picked heads of grain on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees objected that the Sabbath regulations (at least their version of them) were being violated.

 

Jesus responded by pointing out that David had violated one of the laws by eating of the bread reserved for the priests. Then, turning directly to the situation at hand, Jesus asserted: “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; so the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27-28). He was clearly claiming the right to redefine the status of the Sabbath, a right which belongs only to God. <><

[Evacuated]

Your assertions seem to lack logical and scriptural substance.

5 hours ago, Cos said:

Remember Jesus called the Kingdom of God “my Kingdom” and tells His contemporaries to put their faith in Him, and to Him they should offer their love. Bold words from someone you say is a creature

Why would the boldness of these words have significance? And what connection does this have with nature of the one uttering such words?

David, a creature, who ruled in Jehovah's name and sat on Jehovah's throne referred to that Messianic kingdom as "my kingdom". (2Sam.3:28)

The Israelites put faith in Jehovah and in Moses, a creature, (Ex14:31) and this at the encouragement of Jehovah himself! (Ex.19:9)

Jehosaphat, a creature, encouraged the inhabitants of Jerusalem to put faith Jehovah's prophets , other creatures. (2Chr.20:20).

Peter, a creature, encouraged fellow Christians to have love for the whole association of brothers (creatures) which included himself. (1Pet.2:17)

And of course, the Lord Jesus made it clear that love for fellow Christians, creatures, which he exemplified, would identify his true followers. (John 13:34-35).

[Space Merchant]

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

The Scriptures show that Jesus claimed other prerogatives of God as well. Jesus even made direct claims. We note, in examining the Gospels, that the claims become more explicit in the latter stages of His ministry. In the beginning He allowed the people to draw inferences about Him from the power of His moral teaching and His miracles. In the later portions, however, the focus is much more upon Himself.

You have to be more specific, otherwise this cannot be taken seriously. If I am not mistaken others have done miracles also and believed in the teachings that originated from the Father, which are indeed bible accounts and or passages, in addition to that, even false ones have been able to do the same thing in terms of so called miracles - we know this because of Matthew 24:24, which reads:

For false christs and false prophets (cf. Mt. 7:15, 2 Pe. 2:1) will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (cf. Mt. 7:22,23;2 Thess. 2:9)

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

In Matthew 25:31-46 He speaks of judging the world. He will sit on His glorious throne and divide the sheep from the goats. The power of judging the spiritual condition and assigning the eternal destiny of all people belongs to Him.

Certainly this is something which only God can exercise.

• Matthew 28:18 - God Given Authority and Power
• Hebrews 1 - Jesus Christ having been exalted by God the Father

and several other verses, which have already been mentioned.

If God gave Jesus said authority, surely God the Father is capable of doing such also, which seems to be the case, expressed heavily in the Hebrew old Testament, for instance, God's authority and power in regards to the situation with Moses and the family of Korah, God's actions against those who do bad things, those who practice bad things, Ahaz for instance, and how by means of his authority and power, as well as applying His Justice, and the like - even to young Jews when they recite the Old Testament, they learn of who God is and what his Authority and Power entails, and such was a practice into the days of Jesus, after his death and even in present day.

In the same case, if the Boss of a company gave an very experienced employee the authority and power to hire and fire someone, change the shifts and tasks of someone, even down to pay raises and promotion, it does not make the experienced employee who has such a position higher than the Boss, who in turn, can and will do those things regardless, for he is, of course, the boss.

The same thing applies to God the Father, Yahweh/Jehovah to the Son, His Son, Jesus/Yehoshua.

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

The authority which Jesus claimed and exercised is also clearly seen with respect to the Sabbath.

The sacredness of the Sabbath had been established by God (Exod. 20:8-11). Only God could abrogate or modify this regulation. Yet consider what happened when Jesus’ disciples picked heads of grain on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees objected that the Sabbath regulations (at least their version of them) were being violated.

And then what is a missed here is the mention of the New Covenant, which came into affect after the death of the Christ.

We know this because of what God had announced, by means of Shaliah Principle, by means of the prophet Jeremiah, that there would be a new covenant - Jeremiah 31:31-34; and Hebrew 8:13. Years later, on the basis of Christ’s death, the old covenant was canceled out, thus paving a way for the new one - Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:12; 9:15 and Ac 2:1-4.

God, our creator and Father in Heaven foretold this himself - we must not ignore The New Covenant.

On 4/24/2018 at 9:34 PM, Cos said:

Jesus responded by pointing out that David had violated one of the laws by eating of the bread reserved for the priests. Then, turning directly to the situation at hand, Jesus asserted: “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; so the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:27-28). He was clearly claiming the right to redefine the status of the Sabbath, a right which belongs only to God. <><

What?

This is what these 2 verses means. Jesus uses and applies the expression (Lord of the Sabbath) to himself, we know this because of these verses:

Matthew 12:8 - For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:5 - And he said to them, “The Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Which pertains to Mark 2:27 and 28.

With that knowledge, it is an indicating that the Sabbath was at his disposal, for the work he was commanded to do - a command that he followed of which the Father, his God, had commanded the Christ to do, we know this because of what we see here:

John 5:19 - So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

John 10:37, 38 - If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don't believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father."

And we know the teachings of Jesus was not of his own, but of the one who sent him, His God and Father in Heaven, as Jesus said in

John 14:10 - Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

On the Sabbath, Jesus performed some outstanding miracles, which included healing those who are sick - Luke 13:10-13, John 5:5-9, 9:1-14. This is a total foreshadowing of what he, Jesus Christ, will bring during His Kingdom rule, to a similar degree, like a sabbath rest:

Hebrews 10:1 - For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, and He came to fulfill the law not break it.

Jesus and Disciples Pluck and Eat Grains on the Sabbath

The Law is concise about the Sabbath (Leviticus 23, Deuteronomy. 5) and makes a general statement not to work. Plucking grains on your neighbor's property was permitted by the Law (Deuteronomy 23). Reading the Law at face value, the disciples were not breaking Biblical law, but Rabbinical Law. Reaping is one activity forbidden on the Sabbath based on the Misna Shabbat.

David Eating the Showbread

Jesus states that David eating the showbread was unlawful, as it was lawful only for priests for eat the showbread regarding Biblical Law. One can either read this passage as Jesus then condoning breaking Biblical Law because David was hungry or that Jesus was highlighting the inconsistency of His opponents. Since Jesus came to fulfill the law and obeyed God in everything He did, it is more likely that the latter reading is accurate, especially considering how serious God took priestly matters.

With this interpretation, The Pharisees revered David and possibly did not condemn him for his eating of the showbread. Jesus asks then why they condemn Him and his disciples when they did not break the law.

Both King Saul and King Uzziah were punished by God for acting as priests. It is clear that God showed mercy on David in that situation. Nothing in Samuel indicates that David was esteeming himself as a priest by eating the showbread but rather eating due to hunger.

Priests Working on Sabbath

Jesus is speaking with hyperbole saying that the priests profaned the Sabbath by working on the Sabbath to point out that even all work was not forbidden on the Sabbath. The priests and Levites were assigned altar duties, and later in Numbers, God calls for a Sabbath offering - Numbers 28.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath

As Jesus often does in addressing others' questions or comments towards Him, He uses this situation to make a statement about Himself or the kingdom of God. Jesus declares that He is greater than the temple and is "Lord even of the Sabbath." Yet as Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus does not break the Law or condone breaking the Law. Jesus clearly had respect for the Law - Matthew 5:18.

For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

In short:

• Jesus and His disciples were not breaking Biblical law by plucking grains to eat and satisfy their hunger in the moment. The Sabbath law required some interpretation since it was general, and Jesus interpreted it as allowing the actions of Him and His disciples.
• David's action was unlawful to eat the showbread, but he did claim to keep himself and men holy beforehand. God had mercy on David in this situation.
• God permitted some types of work, priestly work, on the Sabbath, and even Rabbinical law accepted saving someone's life as permitted on the Sabbath, thus medical work for saving a life would be allowed by their strict interpretation.
• Jesus states that He is greater than the Temple and Lord of the Sabbath, which only God can be. He is more capable of interpreting Sabbath law than the Pharisees.

Note: Regarding John 5:18, in the mind of the Pharisees, to them, Jesus was breaking the Sabbath , and John is informing us that at least that is their charge against Him, Jesus. In addition, pertaining to this verse we know about Jesus' healing on the Sabbath, in which, the Jews would help someone in need on the Sabbath, and that is what Jesus is doing exactly in John 5:18.

[Space Merchant]

On 4/25/2018 at 3:01 AM, Gone Away said:

Your assertions seem to lack logical and scriptural substance.

Why would the boldness of these words have significance? And what connection does this have with nature of the one uttering such words?

David, a creature, who ruled in Jehovah's name and sat on Jehovah's throne referred to that Messianic kingdom as "my kingdom". (2Sam.3:28)

The Israelites put faith in Jehovah and in Moses, a creature, (Ex14:31) and this at the encouragement of Jehovah himself! (Ex.19:9)

Jehosaphat, a creature, encouraged the inhabitants of Jerusalem to put faith Jehovah's prophets , other creatures. (2Chr.20:20).

Peter, a creature, encouraged fellow Christians to have love for the whole association of brothers (creatures) which included himself. (1Pet.2:17)

And of course, the Lord Jesus made it clear that love for fellow Christians, creatures, which he exemplified, would identify his true followers. (John 13:34-35).

When you tell someone something in one ear, it goes out the other. The same can be said when it comes to critical hermeneutics of bible scriptures.

Sadly people with this type of reasoning results in stuff like this - making those who read the bible and understand, and applying it, are made to look like a joke because of the actions of others, who also read the bible but are not up there in hermeneutics  and understanding, and or lack biblical understanding of things: