The trinity and it’s false theology.

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

I am not going to address this pathetically long post, so congratulations, you got what you wanted.

Typical. Everything I address is always in a single post when a response is required. I do not seek what I want, I merely address what is truth out of the bundle of lies and or conspiracy people will bring up, I did it before, and I will do it and always will do it again - especially when met with individuals like you, who are all the same, especially the "you deny Jesus"category.

I suggest you check thyself before thee wreckth thyself, for if I last recall the only absurdity of a long post originated with you and you alone (5 pages, back to back, a clear copy and paste full of errors and boosting it as truth, is indeed, pathetic, such of which will make even a novice among JW look more experienced in regards of which you have displayed:

 

5 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Now, you can play the "haha, you cannot refute anything i say" game or the "i won" game if that makes you feel better.

When it comes to the Bible and Theology, and the Christology of others, it is no game. God does not play games with anyone, nor any serious one who applies biblical study and understanding in their everyday lives. If you want to play games, I suggest you find yourself a local playground, perhaps one with a jungle jim.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

you are a fool brainwashed into your unitarian cult and instead of having a dialog on one point at a time, you make absurdly long posts in the hope the other person will give up.

Typical. Clearly you do not know my actual stance, for I have said before, I am an independent biblical Unitarian, one that believes Jesus as indeed pre-existed not to be compared with other Unitarians who do not. The funny thing is, I had yet to address anything pertaining to such, but I can see you making checks you are not willing to cash and I can address one thing further proves why you mainstream are at fault. And no, I am no brainwashed into anything, with what I know and my experience, you say this because all you want to do is throw a jab at me, a jab that is seen as weak and flails, unable to make contact.

You speak of long posts, but if I last recall, you were the one who make more than 3 page long posts to a single response I made, to be ignorant of what you made post of in regards to a single comment I made, that is very hypocritical, for I make a direct response all in 1 post and 1 post alone, which is very evident starting from page 5 and onward.

But people like you do not like biblical explanation, you see a verse, accept it as is without further research and or study, Jesus wants teachers, not "as is" mainstreams of today's Christendom who lack understanding.

I do not expect people to give up, so do not make a claim you cannot cash, I expect people to learn out of the mist of their own dishonesty, and when I am met with a response, as I said here, time and time again, I always response, even directly. But it would seem truth itself is too much for you to bear.

Cult? That is cute. What is funny is the hypocrisy is there. You deceive millions by means of twisting the truth, you accept it, embrace it. Mainstream Christianity stick together and always will and always have until judgement day, the very day they will see for themselves that it is indeed too late. You have broken the church, you have allowed people to not take the bible seriously and continue to lead a double life in sinning, you do nothing in regards of the Great Commission, there are parts of the world that do not know God and they expect the favor of knowing the truth, not some man made silliness came out of the 4th century, where is is clear that your people would even kill to push the Trinity. The history is there, and people know it, the very reason why real Christians around the globe is teaching what is right, what is truth against your mainstream theology that has plague this world like a spreading virus to an open wound. And such ones like you will attack and make speak of conspiracy about others, only to push your biblical, even kicking those who are down to justify the absurdity of the mainstream teachings.

Clearly, you, are no defender, nothing more than a pawn, a blind one to the mainstream, the truth is presented before you, it does not take a JW to even show you that, but you refuse it, you remain ignorant of it and therefore you will be the very person to preach and rant about a false doctrine only to be met with individuals like me, and trust me, there are those who are far worse and can be beyong stirct and critical.

6 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Well, you win.

I give up on you.

God bless.

You can continue to say that. I am not here for games - games are for children. I am here to discuss truth from the bible itself an speak against falsehood of anther's Christology, especially when such ones like yourself is quick to accuse others when the gas is very low.

Perhaps next time, read your Bible more and know what truth is, and open your eyes to see you have been taught by those who deceive, but is is 100% fact, that JW opponents are more crazed and blind than others, one such as yourself.

That being said, you call those blind and or brainwashed, yet you take the words of Satan's followers seriously when Jesus made it clear as to what he said before, THAT, my friend, is a problem, and you not knowing that only proves the very point I make time and time again, and I made acknowledgement of that, yet you continue to refuse the very bible you read, for @Anna comment was direct from the bible, and the bible alone, and still you remain ignorant.

So it is safe to say that those who do not adhere to truth, those who do not apply God's Law, those who do not recognize or apply what Jesus entrusted his disciples with, etc. there is no question on who will be saved and who will not.

I will put this verse here so you know:

• Matthew 7:22, 23 - (22) On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?Â’ (23) But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'

As I said, this is no game an this is no win/lose situation, I expect you to LEARN and APPLY what the bible says. For you do not see it, but the reality is, this is indeed a LIFE OR DEATH situation, the JWs are smart enough to also see this hence the very reason they are deemed Restorationist, you have to be also and thread carefully. If not, clearly when Jesus comes, with a sword in hand, he will not recognize you, best to make the effort to be recognize rather than not being recognize, for if you have forgotten, the end times and tribulations conclusion will be far worse than what has already been done in ancient times.

[Evacuated]

14 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

THE TRINITY OF THE GODHEAD

[BroRando]

Where is "Christ" in the trinity doctrine?    The trinity excludes him.  The three persons have no names. It is a generic formula borrowed and copied from pagan religions. Jesus Christ is completely absent from the trinity doctrine.

[Space Merchant]

@Brother Rando The fun factor is, Lord Jesus Christ affirmation of the law of which he was brought up into as a child defeats the Trinity doctrine catastrophically (Mark 12:28-34; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Deuteronomy 6:4), as well as Jesus' position as a mediator regarding both practitioners and benefactors. This also  goes for the Testimony of John the Baptist and Simon Peter, both of whom who bore witness to God the Father speaking to Jesus, as well as the crowd as seen in John 12, in addition to Paul's affirmation of the Law and what he had sent to the Early Christian Church and clearly states Jesus not being considered equal to God in Philippians 2:6, onward you see of whom Paul was referring to, lastly, we have Jesus himself affirming that the Father is indeed his God (John 20:17, Revelations 3:2) as well as to the very end of his life, he cried out to God (Matthew 27:46, foretelling - Psalms 22:1,Isaiah 53:10, Mark 15:34).

 

That being said, both the Law and mediatorship ultimately destroys the Trinitarian claim, for everyone is aware that Jesus had read the Old Testament and knows about who His God is and what His God had done for the people.

People know such truths, but they refuse to listen.

[JW Insider]

@Brother Rando, There were two simultaneous discussions of Trinity and related topics, and one was under a topic that didn't have anything to do with Trinity. So, I moved those into your topic here, since it had a better title for this discussion. I hope it doesn't cause confusion. It affects comments by @Space Merchant, @Jesus.defender and @Anna.

[BroRando]

Yes...  "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus," (1 Timothy 2:5)

and  "God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed"  (Acts 2:36) 

 

 

 

 

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/24/2018 at 6:45 AM, Brother Rando said:

Where is "Christ" in the trinity doctrine?    The trinity excludes him.  The three persons have no names. It is a generic formula borrowed and copied from pagan religions. Jesus Christ is completely absent from the trinity doctrine.

You and your organisation do NOT understand the Bible OR what Christians believe.

You cannot PROVE your beliefs. 

The early church fathers believed the trinity, despite what your stupid book "should you believe the trinity?" states. But, unlike that laughable book, _I_ can provide quotes from the church fathers to back up my assertion.

The Watchtower has misrepresented the Trinity doctrine in order to make its denial more plausible. They erect a straw man that is easily knocked down.

-They call the Trinity a ‘freakish looking, three headed God’ (Let God be True, p 102)
-‘This doctrine of three Gods in one God . . .’ (Studies in Scripture, 1899, Vol 5, p 60,61)

Note: Trinitarians do not believe in ‘three Gods in one God’. They believe in one God, with three co-equal persons in the one Godhead.

Is the Trinity a Pagan Concept? No! Because:

i) The Babylonians and Assyrians believed in triads of gods, which were three separate gods (polytheism) governing other gods. This is totally different from the Trinity of only one God (monotheism) with three persons within the one Godhead.

ii) Triads of gods pre-date Christianity by about 700 years and were far removed from Israel..

iii) Some pagan ideas have some truth in them, such as the pagan Flood legends.Just because pagans spoke of a concept that remotely resembles a biblical concept, does not mean that Christians stole it from the pagans.

iv) JWs quote HislopÂ’s The Two Babylons to support their case, yet they donÂ’t tell us that Hislop believes in the Trinity, as seen from HislopÂ’s quote:
‘They all admitted a Trinity, but did they worship the Triune Jehovah?’ (p. 90)
- About 80% of the sources that the WT quotes are from Trinitarians. This begs the question: ‘How can the WT disprove the Trinity by quoting sources who believe the Trinity?
- 15% of their sources are secular works like Encyclopaedia Britannica.
- 5% of WT sources are invalid sources of Biblical truth, eg: sceptics, spiritists, Unitarians.
- The WT always finds some unknown, obscure person to agree with them. They do not examine the credibility of such sources. Most WT sources have no credibility & no authority.
- The WT rarely gives page numbers of its quotes to allow check the source and context.

v) JWs claim they represent the ‘faith once delivered to the saints’. They claim that the Trinity idea was introduced in 325 AD. What they don’t say is that current WT teachings
have no precedent in history. They do not say who were the JWs of the first three centuries or later. No early church ‘father’ represented their beliefs. The WT is historically bankrupt.

vi) The WT, by showing a three-headed god, use the ‘straw-man effect’, where they misrepresent what Christians believe, and then proceed to ‘shoot down’ this ‘straw man’.
This is seen in five pictures of three-headed gods which are supposed to represent the God of Christendom. (‘Should you believe in the Trinity’ p 10).

vii) The WT is happy to misquote sources to prove their point. Consider page 6 ‘Should you believe in the Trinity’, where they misquote the New Encyclopaedia Brittanica by failing to give the full relevant quote. They stop the quote at the asterisk * ‘The Encyclopaedia Britannica (1976 Edition) correctly states: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament”,’   [*They stop the quote here, ignoring the rest of the article which endorses the Trinity:]

‘nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deuteronomy 6:4). The earliest Christians, however, had to cope with the implications of the coming of Jesus Christ and of the presence and power of God among them - ie, the Holy Spirit, whose coming we connected with the celebration of Pentecost.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were associated in such New Testament passages as the Great Commission: ‘Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ (Matthew 28:19); and in the apostolic benediction:

‘The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all’ (2 Cor. 13:14). Thus, the New Testament established the basis for the doctrine of the Trinity.The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.

Any early church council disputes were over fine points of Trinity clarification, such as the substance, nature and omnipotence of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, never over whether the
Trinity was right or wrong.

The truth of the Trinity was always accepted.

 

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/24/2018 at 1:06 AM, Space Merchant said:

Typical. Everything I address is always in a single post when a response is required. I do not seek what I want, I merely address what is truth out of the bundle of lies and or conspiracy people will bring up, I did it before, and I will do it and always will do it again - especially when met with individuals like you, who are all the same, especially the "you deny Jesus"category.

I suggest you check thyself before thee wreckth thyself, for if I last recall the only absurdity of a long post originated with you and you alone (5 pages, back to back, a clear copy and paste full of errors and boosting it as truth, is indeed, pathetic, such of which will make even a novice among JW look more experienced in regards of which you have displayed:

 

When it comes to the Bible and Theology, and the Christology of others, it is no game. God does not play games with anyone, nor any serious one who applies biblical study and understanding in their everyday lives. If you want to play games, I suggest you find yourself a local playground, perhaps one with a jungle jim.

Typical. Clearly you do not know my actual stance, for I have said before, I am an independent biblical Unitarian, one that believes Jesus as indeed pre-existed not to be compared with other Unitarians who do not. The funny thing is, I had yet to address anything pertaining to such, but I can see you making checks you are not willing to cash and I can address one thing further proves why you mainstream are at fault. And no, I am no brainwashed into anything, with what I know and my experience, you say this because all you want to do is throw a jab at me, a jab that is seen as weak and flails, unable to make contact.

You speak of long posts, but if I last recall, you were the one who make more than 3 page long posts to a single response I made, to be ignorant of what you made post of in regards to a single comment I made, that is very hypocritical, for I make a direct response all in 1 post and 1 post alone, which is very evident starting from page 5 and onward.

But people like you do not like biblical explanation, you see a verse, accept it as is without further research and or study, Jesus wants teachers, not "as is" mainstreams of today's Christendom who lack understanding.

I do not expect people to give up, so do not make a claim you cannot cash, I expect people to learn out of the mist of their own dishonesty, and when I am met with a response, as I said here, time and time again, I always response, even directly. But it would seem truth itself is too much for you to bear.

Cult? That is cute. What is funny is the hypocrisy is there. You deceive millions by means of twisting the truth, you accept it, embrace it. Mainstream Christianity stick together and always will and always have until judgement day, the very day they will see for themselves that it is indeed too late. You have broken the church, you have allowed people to not take the bible seriously and continue to lead a double life in sinning, you do nothing in regards of the Great Commission, there are parts of the world that do not know God and they expect the favor of knowing the truth, not some man made silliness came out of the 4th century, where is is clear that your people would even kill to push the Trinity. The history is there, and people know it, the very reason why real Christians around the globe is teaching what is right, what is truth against your mainstream theology that has plague this world like a spreading virus to an open wound. And such ones like you will attack and make speak of conspiracy about others, only to push your biblical, even kicking those who are down to justify the absurdity of the mainstream teachings.

Clearly, you, are no defender, nothing more than a pawn, a blind one to the mainstream, the truth is presented before you, it does not take a JW to even show you that, but you refuse it, you remain ignorant of it and therefore you will be the very person to preach and rant about a false doctrine only to be met with individuals like me, and trust me, there are those who are far worse and can be beyong stirct and critical.

You can continue to say that. I am not here for games - games are for children. I am here to discuss truth from the bible itself an speak against falsehood of anther's Christology, especially when such ones like yourself is quick to accuse others when the gas is very low.

Perhaps next time, read your Bible more and know what truth is, and open your eyes to see you have been taught by those who deceive, but is is 100% fact, that JW opponents are more crazed and blind than others, one such as yourself.

That being said, you call those blind and or brainwashed, yet you take the words of Satan's followers seriously when Jesus made it clear as to what he said before, THAT, my friend, is a problem, and you not knowing that only proves the very point I make time and time again, and I made acknowledgement of that, yet you continue to refuse the very bible you read, for @Anna comment was direct from the bible, and the bible alone, and still you remain ignorant.

So it is safe to say that those who do not adhere to truth, those who do not apply God's Law, those who do not recognize or apply what Jesus entrusted his disciples with, etc. there is no question on who will be saved and who will not.

I will put this verse here so you know:

• Matthew 7:22, 23 - (22) On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?Â’ (23) But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.'

As I said, this is no game an this is no win/lose situation, I expect you to LEARN and APPLY what the bible says. For you do not see it, but the reality is, this is indeed a LIFE OR DEATH situation, the JWs are smart enough to also see this hence the very reason they are deemed Restorationist, you have to be also and thread carefully. If not, clearly when Jesus comes, with a sword in hand, he will not recognize you, best to make the effort to be recognize rather than not being recognize, for if you have forgotten, the end times and tribulations conclusion will be far worse than what has already been done in ancient times.

 

God bless you.

[Space Merchant]

@Jesus.defender An the copy and paste antics keeps on going, as for our early Christian counterparts, they were entirety Subornationist, even during the Apostolic Age times (such I had already addressed months ago). The funny thing is this is has nothing to do with the bible, just your obvious disdain for a Non-Trinitarian group, JWs.

Also I am is not the same as I am that I am (ego eimi) that I am/eyeh asher eyeh (ego eimi ho on), please do not confuse such, and it further proves you are as lost as can be.

That being said, a man who is blind, misguided, does not show Berean like traits cannot bless anyone, for he, the man who blesses, is already lost and totally unaware.

[BroRando]

@Jesus.defender Well Sir. You have no understanding because you have been counted 'wicked' and have already took the number of the beast.  .  

Jesus never claims to be the I AM THAT I AM... The "I am" is God's Representative.  I'm not witnessing to you for you to gain salvation but rather that the 'wicked' be counted as wicked so the righteous can go on living on a paradise Earth as you are being Destroyed.  "Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." (Psalms 37:10-11)

The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it."(Psalms 37:29)  

God is a title that can assigned in the Godhead. The Godhead is not a person nor it is in the trinity doctrine.  The Godhead is a Divine Arrangement of Authority,  Jesus is the Word of God and called the Great Prophet, Paul also referred to himself as the I AM also and so did the angel Gabriel.

"I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared.  Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him." (Exodus 23:20-21)

If God  is "I AM that I AM" then who is the angel that appeared to Moses in the burning Bush.  Have you never read that No Man has Seen God at any time except his only begotten son??  If the angel would contain God's Name with in him, would that be "I am" ?  God's Name is Jehovah and God made Jesus Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)  Jesus means 'Jehovah is Salvation" .... my name is in him." (Exodus 23:20-21)

Jesus is the Lord, the Angel of God's Presence, the one to inspect the Temple. "Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts." (Malachi 3:1 Darby)  

The wicked have no understanding. "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it." (Matthew 23:37)
 

To reject Jesus Christ as the Angel of God’s Presence you would have to reject this scripture, the Word of God.  “In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the Angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them and carried them all the days of old.” (Isaiah 63:9 Darby)

1) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ was afflicted with our sins.

2) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ is our Salvation.

3) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ loved us or felt pity for us.

4) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ is our Redeemer.

5) You would have to reject that Jesus Christ died for our sins once and for all time.

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him” (Exodus 23:20-21 KJV)

Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.” (Luke 9:35)   Accepting Jesus as the Christ can add a profound meaning for your Life. 

Jesus when translated means ‘Jehovah is Salvation’. “For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matthew 23:39)  Learn the truth about Jehovah’s Witnesses.

"Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand." (Daniel 12:10)  Those counted wicked are already dying the second death for denying Jesus as 'the Christ, the son of the living God' (Matthew 16:16)

To request a free home Bible Study click here.
 

" I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.’” (Rev 16:16)  You're no Christian but an IMPOSTOR.   "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4)  If I was to believe your false theology that Jesus is God, then can we conclude that God  has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs??  The snake is still twisting scripture. So God was worse than the angels until an angel gave God a Name?  Koo koo for Coco Puffs...

"And though my physical condition was a trial for you, you did not treat me with contempt or disgust; but you received me like an angel of God, like Christ Jesus" (Galatians 4:14) 

 

[Space Merchant]

@Brother Rando It is impossible to reason with a Trinitarian, such ones are way too dense in the skull compared to a child who listens and understands of what the scriptures mean and from the one who teaches said scriptures to him. Like his kind, such ones will use 1 John 5:7 and 1 Timothy 3:16 as well as a dozen of other verses said to have been forged, added, not following the oldest source. It is known to everyone that Trinitarians have forged 1 John 5:7 for the original verse says the following: For there are three that testify [witnesses]: for this original form is of the oldest source around the 4th century, we see Trinitarians use this verse, but its forged counterpart that is used by the KJV, as seen here: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Such has been changed via TR/JC 16th century. The same goes for 1 Timothy 3:16 for GOD was added into the verse to make Jesus appear as God when in reality, the 4th century source does not say GOD anywhere in this verse.

The hypocrisy is that not only the Truth Deserter is not only a Trinitarian, he is clearly a JW opponent (who follows a man who is both an atheist and a Wiccan paganist) of some of the worse kind, for they spout everything and anything to say JWs are in the wrong, yet they do not have anything to back it up. The Truth Deserter stated in his other post JWs omitted the verse to paint them as wrong, when in reality, the verses in question are not of the original source, the most damaging thing is many people found out about the forgeries and additions that originated from the 16 century tom foolery, even Muslims as well as those who do not follow a Christian denomination and are totally neutral, up and down the UK in Speaker's Corner will bring this truth to light to the point that Trinitarians have nothing to say about their falsehood. They also like to use 1 Peter 1:1-2, but never address the second portion of verse 2 nor do they go on to verse 3 because Simon Peter addresses the only true God as the Father, then again, any testimony made by Peter, Paul, John the Baptist, Jesus and last but not least, God, utterly destroys silly claims such ones make. And they most efintaly will not agree with Paul either, for what Paul had addressed about Jesus in Galatians 4:14.

It is even funnier when they attempt to sing and dance to defend the whole Adulterous Woman passage (John 8:1-11) or prove that the Holy Spirit is a person, but when the critical questions are asked, they refuse to answer.

For any man who defends forgeries, it is as if he is throwing a snowball into a roaring furnace, for such an action will not yield any result, only further proves that the Trinitarian doctrine an its followers are decreasing.

A little something should any Trinitarian have something to say about removed Bible verses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations

That being said, they are ignorant, but only a handful among them listen to reason for such ones do not no any better compared to their dense headed counterparts, but it would seem we have quite the fish on this hook, and out of the bible, there is but 3 verses that utterly destroys their claims and doctrine in it's place.

Other than that, my reaction with hardcore Trinitarians is the same when they flail like fish to defend falsehood, they make agnostics look good to some degree:

 

[Jesus.defender]

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

@Jesus.defender Well Sir. You have no understanding because you have been counted 'wicked' and have already took the number of the beast.  .  

 

Ok, thank you for that.

 

You are right. I AM a wicked, dirty, rotten, filthy sinner just like you.

 

God bless you.