The trinity and it’s false theology.

[Jesus.defender]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

@Brother Rando It is impossible to reason with a Trinitarian, such ones are way too dense in the skull compared to a child who listens and understands of what the scriptures mean and from the one who teaches said scriptures to him. Like his kind, such ones will use 1 John 5:7 and 1 Timothy 3:16 as well as a dozen of other verses said to have been forged, added, not following the oldest source.

 

LOL. You, sir are an idiot.

 

forged? added? Right, WHEN and by WHOM? 

 

DONT copy and paste, i know you hate that, and dont refer people to a website.

 

Come on, WHEN and WHO?

 

funny how not even a dozen verses in the Bible can convince you. Your response? Oh, those passages are forged or added.

And you are stupid to think that the EARLIER a document is, that automatically makes it TRUE.

you are a ridiculous and sad person.

 

[Jesus.defender]

How about 120 VERSES?

 

Oh, thats right, all those verses were added! LOL!

120 Bible passages referring to Jehovah that in the New Testament are quoted and applied to Christ..rtf

[Jesus.defender]

great

 

117 JEHOVAHS WITNESSES the TRINITY.pdf

[BroRando]

@Jesus.defender None of your verses say that Jesus is God.  If so, the account would read something like this. When God was 12 years old, God got lost. God's Parents were stricken with worry and panic. Three days later God's Parents found God in his House. God's Parents rebuked God for worrying them. 

The Delusional Trinity claims each separate persons in the trinity is God by himself.

It then lists God the Father to be God, that's one god, then  God the Son to be God to be a second god, then God the holy Spirit to be God, a third god.

Isn't listing the three separate persons each as God a contradiction?  It then goes to say the Father is NOT the Son, the Son is Not the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit the Father or the Son.

However a trinitarian  would not claim that Jesus is God but rather that Jesus is the second person of the trinity. But if they said that, they would nullify their own doctrine because the trinity excludes Christ because it denies Christ, it's an Anti-Christian doctrine. This is the Catholic trinity... nothing Christian about But it get worse.  The trinitarian of the 2nd to 4th Century condemn  Sabellianism  has HERESY...

                                                                     

                                                                   The person on the board claiming to be a Jesus Defender, actually worships the Celtic trinity.  It's a hybrid of the trinity and modalism/sabellaism   Sabellianism the modalistic doctrines of Sabellius, 3rdentury prelate, especially that the Trinity has but one divine essence and that the persons are only varying manifestations of God not really persons.   Also called Modalistic Monarchianism. — Sabellian, n.,adj.  NOTICE the doctrines totally omit Jesus Christ from them!  How is the Celtic trinity represented by the one so-called Jesus Defender is claiming?  The three parts are symbolized  by three interlocking 666's.  Its called the circle of confusion. because this demonic teaching denies Jesus Christ at all angles and you go around and around like a dog or snake chasing its own tail, always CHANGING but never coming to an accurate knowledge of Christ.   It is also called the Celtic Knot, the snake has him engulfed and has a deathly strangle hold of him robbing his life little by little...... It simply denies Christ altogether by claiming Jesus is God all by himself.  Some say Jesus is Jehovah and they slam Holy Spirit in rejecting it totally.  Speaking against Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.  

Jubilee Bible 2000
And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come.

The verse for salvation is so so simple. "For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9)   Notice his claims about Jesus is that he is God ....  and he certainly doesn't believe God raised him up from the dead because he claims Jesus is God.

Teaching the Son is the Father is also a LIE... "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son." (2 John 9)

 

 

 

[BroRando]

120 verses say 'Jesus is God"???   I was asking for just one....  AND I'M STILL Waiting.....   just one would suffice...  You know if you stop hiding your religion I can tell you which trinity you believe in.  But I think I probably got it down pretty accurate.  Baptists claim to be trinitarians but when they can't show a scripture of three separate persons make up God, they switch to the other heretical teaching of modalism.  They drop the Father and Holy Spirit.... why would you jump out of the frying pan into the fire?? 

Jesus was begotten, so at one time he never was... all the angels existed before the Abraham.  Where is the scripture that states Jesus is the I AM that I AM????   None of the trinities state that either....  This follow verse was written 96 CE 63 years after Jesus ascended to Heaven. "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him," (Rev 1:1)

Whose this angel with glory?? "After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory." (Rev 18:1)

If Jesus is God, then who gave him this authority? An Angel??  "Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." (Matthew 28:18) 

Why do trinitarians claim Jesus is Co-equal to his Father, then claim in the same breath that Jesus is God??   I mean if Jesus is God?  Then who would be Co-equal with him??   Another God???  "the Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)   I never found the word Co-Equal in ANY SCRIPTURE.  Are you know going to claim that when a couple gets married they actually become in flesh in a literal sense??   They don't work together as a team for one purpose??  What about John 17:22 when Jesus prayed to his Father... ooppps...  Why did Jesus pray?  Didn't he know his OWN THOUGHTS??   I wonder if he knew what he was going to ask himself to do??  lol  Round and round we go... but you're not coming out.... you're stuck.... 

Could the trinity doctrine be your golden calf??    If Jesus is God, then who raised him from the DEAD??   

 

 

 

 

 

[Jesus.defender]

1 hour ago, Brother Rando said:

120 verses say 'Jesus is God"???   I was asking for just one....  AND I'M STILL Waiting.....   just one would suffice...  You know if you stop hiding your religion I can tell you which trinity you believe in.  But I think I probably got it down pretty accurate.  Baptists claim to be trinitarians but when they can't show a scripture of three separate persons make up God, they switch to the other heretical teaching of modalism.  They drop the Father and Holy Spirit.... why would you jump out of the frying pan into the fire?? 

Jesus was begotten, so at one time he never was... all the angels existed before the Abraham.  Where is the scripture that states Jesus is the I AM that I AM????   None of the trinities state that either....  This follow verse was written 96 CE 63 years after Jesus ascended to Heaven. "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him," (Rev 1:1)

Whose this angel with glory?? "After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his glory." (Rev 18:1)

If Jesus is God, then who gave him this authority? An Angel??  "Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." (Matthew 28:18) 

Why do trinitarians claim Jesus is Co-equal to his Father, then claim in the same breath that Jesus is God??   I mean if Jesus is God?  Then who would be Co-equal with him??   Another God???  "the Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28)   I never found the word Co-Equal in ANY SCRIPTURE.  Are you know going to claim that when a couple gets married they actually become in flesh in a literal sense??   They don't work together as a team for one purpose??  What about John 17:22 when Jesus prayed to his Father... ooppps...  Why did Jesus pray?  Didn't he know his OWN THOUGHTS??   I wonder if he knew what he was going to ask himself to do??  lol  Round and round we go... but you're not coming out.... you're stuck.... 

Could the trinity doctrine be your golden calf??    If Jesus is God, then who raised him from the DEAD??   

 

 

 

 

 

I can post links showing the trinity to be true. We can post links to eachother and get nowhere.

 

Your problem is you have been brainwashed by the watchtower and are not allowed to think for yourself. ( "Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22),  "Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 ) )

 

Just because, for example you cannot find the word "trinity" ( which in itself is not important ) in the Bible does not mean it does not exist. The words "theocracy" or "theocratic kingdom"  are not there either, so if you want to go down that route...

 

If anyone would like to discuss things, i am happy to go through verses that you think disprove the "trinity", but let us do it ONE verse per message.

 

In fact, i will start a new thread with just a few passages that support the "trinity" so the messages do not get out-of-hand or too long.

Believe it or not, i am not a bad person. I am fully capable of a polite, friendly dialog. Do not confuse passion for arrogance or rudeness.  Of course, i am human and it is not always easy to turn the other cheek and i succumb to emotions sometimes and give abuse back.

 

If i do not address something that someone wants, there IS a good reason and is not because i don't HAVE rebuttal or reply. maybe the person is generally too rude, maybe the message is too long, maybe it is a red herring, maybe it is off-topic.

 

In the experiences i have had with JW's locally and on social media, a great many of them ( with all due respect ) do not know what Christians believe and your printed material i have found contains many falsehoods, misquotes and outright lies. I have a magazine by my computer desk that talks, for example about spiritists and how we ought to have nothing to do with them. What the article fails to mention is that the watchtower used the words of KNOWN spiritist and mediam johannes greber in the translation of the nwt and "Aid to Bible Understanding".

 

The booklet "Should you believe in the trinity" is at best, laughable and contains many lies and misquotes. I have a whole list of rebuttels for that booklet alone WITH SOURCES.

 

I think the average JW puts the average Christian to shame. They dress appropriately, lead seemingly good lives and go door to door. We Christians ought to be ashamed of ourselves.

 

However, when they blacklist a house because the owner knows the Bible, that's another thing.

 

Sorry for going off-topic a bit. I am just typing what i feel is needed.

BTW: I hate those symbols people use to express the "trinity". Some of them ARE occultic symbols. Just because someone used that symbol to describe the "trinity" does not make the concept occultic.

 

I mean, you guys used the pyramid and calculated the end of the world ( THAT didn't work out, did it?! ) using the measurements of the pyramid as well as astrology was used in some of your publications so lets not start casting stones at eachother. 

 

You ASSUME that people using those symbols are Christian, BTW

[Jesus.defender]

Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.

God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite,  omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent

There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods.

The Bible says that God the father is God.

The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference  Revelation 1:17 )

The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11

The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15,  NEHEMIAH 9:6,  PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ),  PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.

Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God.

We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us that's the way it is.

 

 

[Space Merchant]

8 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Ok, thank you for that.

You are right. I AM a wicked, dirty, rotten, filthy sinner just like you.

God bless you.

He called you such because you are speaking of slander, you incite Christian Infighting (a big problem with the West), you bring forth a doctrine that it's even biblical, you use the information from a Wiccan to spread interfaith hate, you are an advocate of breaking God's Laws which is the case with the mainstream, let alone adhering to false ones, and the list goes on. 

We are all indeed sinners, but there is a clear line between those who know they are imperfect vs. those who are imperfect, but sin openly and being ignorant of it.

Other than that, a man who wants others to break God's Law, a man who incite religious infighting, a man who's Spirit has been tested (1 John 4:1) cannot bless anyone. You fit the bill.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Ignore the word "trinity". its not important.

You are the first of few who say this, this is interesting, either you are learning or you are totally unaware.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite,  omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent

Indeed, God is the only God, the only true one, and this only God is the Father, according to His testimony, the testimony of Jesus, as well as the testimony of Peter, Paul, and John, the Son of Zechariah and Elizabeth, as well as a list of others.

There is no question that HE, is the only God, the only one, the very one that all young Jews profess as a child and read the Old Testament about, this includes Jesus.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The Bible says that God the father is God.

Very true, however your other posts tend to be very contradicting to this response.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference  Revelation 1:17 )?

• John 8:58 - This verse does not prove Jesus is God for if you recognize what the sons of the Devil were doing verses before and even chapters in what they wanted to do to Jesus. Moreover, I AM (ego eimi) does not prove anything, for not only it is a common Greek saying, Jesus was only making acknowledgement that he pre-existed before Abraham, no mention of him being El Shaddai, Yahweh/Jehovah. This has already been covered here

 

• John 1:1 - This verse speaks of the Genesis Act of Creation, hence verses 3-6 and the mention John the Baptist several verses onward. The Word if from God because it is His spoken Word, the Word became flesh because Jesus was the one who became a man, the Word is God because we clearly see that God himself had said the following about the coming prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18, also the very one mentioned in Isaiah (also scroll of Isaiah as seen in Luke 4). God had said that he will raise up for them a prophet, one that is like their brothers (Jews). he continues to say that He  will put His words in his mouth, and this prophet will speak to them all that He will command of this prophet. Therefore we know the Word is God because the Word is of God, Jesus, who is the prophet, is the Word because he speaks God's Word, and from the very beginning the Word, that originated from God spoke everything into existence. Further evidence we also have is the Tanakh/Old Testament (they focused specifically on the Torah) of which the Samartians strictly follow, for they lived apart from the Jews and their area was Mount Gerizim, for they awaited this Prophet who speaks God's Word, and we see this unfold in John chapter 4 when Jesus spoke with the Samaritan Woman at the Well of Jacob, despite how Samaritans and Jews view each other, but for Jesus, he ha the utmost respect for the Samaritans and didn't go bashing their views, as you are doing, for Jesus set an example for us to follow. It was here that Jesus revealed himself to be the Messiah, the one sent by God, and clearly we see the reaction of the woman, and eventually the Samaritan people. God is the Word, the Word is of God.

 

• John 20:28 - Quoting from my article, the facts that come straight from the very pages of the scriptures in the Bible shows us that Thomas was confessing what Jesus had taught him - to see Jesus is to see the Father (John 14:10-11; 12:44-45). That human flesh named Jesus declares the Father (John 1:18). In fact, the entire point of the Gospel of John is to illustrate how the man Jesus made God the Father known. Since there is only one God, Thomas was necessarily referring to Jesus Christ's God when he said, "my God." When all the evidence is put before us, there is simply no doubt that Thomas was affirming Jesus' earlier teaching to him, that to see and believe in Jesus was to see and believe in the Father, the God of Jesus, the God of Thomas (20:17). Jesus himself tells us in this Gospel that he declared/explained the Father in terms of everything he said and did. John tells us the same thing - Jesus came so that we might know the Father, the true God (1 John 5:20). He is the Way to the Father and through Him we know the Father. Jesus explained that they saw the Father when they saw Jesus because the Father abiding in him did the works (14:9-10). How much more then was the Father abiding in that dead body which had the Father had risen from the dead by the power of His Holy Spirit which proceeds from THE FATHER and which Jesus breathed into his disciples (see 20:21-22). Since seeing Jesus meant seeing the Father, Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God. Thomas is confessing what the entire Gospel of John is about. Jesus made the Father known to the people of the world. The only begotten declares/explains the Father. For that reason, to see Jesus is to see the Father. To see the Lord Jesus is to see the Father, our God, and Jesus Christ's God. This can be found here

 

• Hebrews 1:8 - This verse speaks of Jesus' clear exaltation, after being brought back to life in spirit by God and made Lord. Moreover, Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation of Psalm 45:6. The above translation of Hebrews 1:8 is another example of Trinitarian bias expressed by the mainstream. For it is here that such ones like you try to claim that God the Father is addressing Jesus as "O God." This translation crudely violates the context for the sake of Trinitarian tradition. In addition, such ones make no acknowledgment of the quotation in order to push their doctrine, which is the case with you making a reference to this verse and not taking it into context. When we really take this verse into context, the truth can easily be seen and it should be evident to people that the weight of the evidence if taken into context is clearly against the Trinitarian translation. For the Trinitarian translation not only results in an absurd statement concerning the whole God's God thing, it results in an ancient Davidic King (Psalms 45) who lived long before Jesus being called "God." Trinitarians inconsistently translate ho theos at Hebrews 1:8-9 and the implications are that God has a God and God's God anoints God so that God will make God to be above God's peers. It's ridiculous on the face of it. Clearly that does not sound right at all. Another thing is you have not taken into context the writer of Hebrews also. That being said it is also good to address what God called all his children as seen in Psalms 82:6 (verse 1 is a reference), and it being referenced yet again in 1 Corinthians 8:5 and as to what Jesus had said in John 10:34, 35.

 

• Isaiah 44:6 - The scriptures shows that "His Redeemer" is a reference to Israel's Redeemer, you, Deserter, as a Trinitarian, show a total disregard to contextual facts. For it is known that the passage here is referring to Israel's redeemer who is Yahweh of Hosts their God. The irony here is you believe in 3 Gods, when the testimony of God (Book of Joel) himself in another verse says otherwise

 

• Revelations 1:17 - The scriptures shows that the risen Jesus is the First and the Last because he, God's Word, is where the new creation of God begins, which is as clear as day when taking into account the Revelations of John. An even bigger problem that is posed to you Trinitarians is that your claim will be demanded an answer, but such ones like you will not say a word. At Revelation 1:1, we read that God gave this Revelation to Jesus and he communicated this Revelation to John through his angel, which leads to who, in question, then communicated with John? It is abundantly  clear that these title(s) refer to creation and Jesus is the Beginning of the new creation since he is the Firstborn out of the Dead (The first of the Firstfruits). Everything begins and ends with the Father's Word. Now, the Genesis act of creation was accomplished by means of His, God's, spoken Word and that is why we find He is the first and the last in the book of Isaiah. He is where the Genesis act of creation began and since He will judge the world through a man He has appointed, He is where it will also end. God the Father has created by means of His spoken Word and judges the world through His word at the end of the ages. God the Father will judge the world through him (Acts 17:31) and God the Father creates all things anew in him (Colossians 1:16-18; Revelation 21). God the Father now creates all things through the risen Christ, His Word become flesh. The new creation begins and ends at the Father's Word: the risen man, Jesus, who has been made Lord, who has been exalted.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11

Nowhere in Acts 5:3, 4 does it say by your claim that: The Holy Spirit is God -false

We clearly see what it says in the verse:

• (3) But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? (4) While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”

Nowhere in Romans 8:11 does it say, by your claim that the Holy Spirit is God, utterly false, for we can see the verse:

• If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

The funny thing is, you are using verses from a man who has profess the foremost commandment, that alone speaks against the Trinity belief, moreover, this man, Paul, has affirmed the Law, that puts you in error, 100%.

What proves more fatal is the cross-references also, for that alone defeats your doctrine, Deserter.

But what, it would seem you have shot yourself on the foot with this response because previously, you had stated: The Bible says that God the father is God. You can't have 3 Gods if there is only 1, but it would seem you religiously worship 3 being in denial by also stating there is 1, that is being hypocritical to your own belief.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15,  NEHEMIAH 9:6,  PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ),  PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.

Oh the irony, you mentioned a verse that shattered your own doctrine, the very law that speaks of the Father being the only God, a law of which Jesus himself had quoted. Not to mention you also stated a verse that 100% disqualifies Jesus as being God for he acts as an in-between for God and a group of men to man kind, technically, you have defeated yourself with this response, and to add more fuel to the fire, for a man who claims to be a Jesus Defender, you have no idea of what Law I am speaking of, of which Jesus professed even as a child, you also mentioned a verse of which Paul made an affirmation of the Law,  you have no idea of what Jesus is regarding being an in between of 2 parties, you have no idea of what God's Law actually is that further provides a major blow to your own doctrine.

Either you are learning, or you are inflecting yourself, wounding yourself, in this sense, figuratively, religous seppuku (??).

Indeed, the only True God is the Father and no one else, not even this so called Holy Spirit Person, nor is it Jesus, for God is the only Father, in addition to that, even Jesus recognize the Father as God several times in the New Testament.

Perhaps next time, read the verse first and maybe make such a comment. Also as for Psalms 18:31 does not state Jesus is God. Anyone with a brain and some sense can read and see that this verse is regarding God the Father:

• For who is God, but the LORD [YHWH]? And who is a rock, except our God?—

If you want to take it a step further, even in Hebrew, it further proves the one being mentioned is indeed the Father:

• ????? ???? ????????? ????????????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ????????????

The funny thing the ALL CAPS is a dead giveaway too.

Moreover, we have the cross-references for this verse that solidifies this simply truth: Psalms 86:8, Isaiah 45:5, Deuteronomy. 32:31, 1 Samuel 2:2, and 2 Samuel 22:32-43.

Then again acknowledging the Father to be God, just as Paul and Jesus had, as did others, is very close, but no cigar because you are in total defense of a heresy you know to be false.

Open your eyes, Deserter.

It is people like you who is the very result of those, unaware, make fun of the bible:

Such cannot be allowed to pass, therefore the truth has to be known, it MUST be known.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God.

Yet you contradict yourself in your several of your responses.

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us that's the way it is.

Yet when he speaks by means of His Word, you ignore it. Basic reading comprehension and biblical study by means of understanding and research further proves that the only God is the Father.

As for the other comment, Jehovah's Witnesses are not like other Christians, they are Restorationist Christians who are Non-Trinitarian, on the other side of the spectrum, for the Christians of this day and age are 100% mainstream (New Agers included) and do not mind shedding the blood of other Christians in cold bloodied brutality in order to protect their nation, the Christians tossed into the well is an example, and I believe I made mention to such regarding the White Hats of which the US mainstream Christians support, in addition, they like to use uninspired passages with the inspired to push their belief on others, unfortunately for you many, MANY people wised up, but for you, you accept and choose to be blind and continue to dwell in darkness, tripping over yourself and shambling in the dark like a mad man (like Bob the Builder, James White, Jay Smith, David Wood, etc.)

 

That being said, you have not proven anything in this regard, you have not proven that Jesus is God or that of the Spirit yet you claim the one God to be the Father, for it is true, the only God is the Father, according to the testimony of others.

Biblical Hermeneutics and the study and understanding of one's Christology will and always prevail over false truths and false teachers

 

As for your foolish claim

Quote

LOL. You, sir are an idiot.

forged? added? Right, WHEN and by WHOM? 

DONT copy and paste, i know you hate that, and dont refer people to a website.

Come on, WHEN and WHO?

funny how not even a dozen verses in the Bible can convince you. Your response? Oh, those passages are forged or added.

And you are stupid to think that the EARLIER a document is, that automatically makes it TRUE.

you are a ridiculous and sad person.

The only foolish man that is here, is you, for if I was foolish, I would not be that knowledgeable of the scriptures and I would be ignorant of truth, but your silly insult is nothing more than a leaf in the breeze, nothing more, Deserter.

The fact that you are unaware of the forgeries shows, I would like to see you try and defend 1 John 5:7, or that of the Acts 8:37, John 8:1-11, Mark 16:9-20 and a list of other verses. Try as you may - you will fail.

I don't hate copy and paste, but the constant back to back copy and paste posts only shows you yield upon hat man has taught you, and not of God.

And no you have no convinced me, you claim Jesus is God when Jesus himself professed a law and he is an in-between for God and men, you claim the Holy Spirit is God, let alone a person, yet you fail to make the claim, and this Godhood claim when no one knows the day or the hour but God himself, in addition, you claim God became flesh when the Old Testament and the words of Job says otherwise. You cannot even convince a child with such heresy, how then will you teach to the nation? For such ones who want to know truth will not adhere to the nonsense that you are teaching, that is why your doctrine, the Trinity, is killing your own faith base when Christianity of the mainstream is on a rapid decline, to the point that even Islam is surpassing you, mind you, this excludes Christian minorities that have nothing to do with the mainstream. For you are declining in China, the UK, the US, the list goes on, for people are tired of your heresy and falsehood when they themselves look at what the bible really says.

I only made a mention to several uninspired text nowhere did I state ALL verses are forged, you are a fool to think of such because I made mention to this to everyone here before you crawled out of the crevice of which you came. There is well over a dozen verses that have been forged, FACT, there has been verses that has been changed, FACT, there has been verses that have been made up by man, FACT, and because of this people tend to stick to the oldest source, FACT. A Fact that has been proven here, is you are utterly unaware of this source of which the bible based upon and no we are not talking about God's Word, we are talking about something physical before the Bible itself came to be.

Example, Trinitarians believe that Jesus saved an Adulterous Woman, based off the passages as seen in John 8:1-11 (if you want to take is a step further John 7:53-8:11), however, this verses are not in the original source, they never were in there to begin with, someone very later on added these verses to make a complete continuation of chapter 8. For there is a reason as to why a majority of bibles have omitted Pericope Adulterae. You have a problem if you accept this to be true, yet cannot defend it, the same goes for the other verses in question, everyone knows about 1 John 5:7 and 1 Timothy 3:16 and a number of other things, especially as to the inspired passages itself of which Trinitarians will twist in their favor, example, John 10:30, John 8:58 to name a few.

NOTE: The Greek manuscripts show fairly clear evidence that John 7:53—8:11 was not originally part of John’s Gospel.

It isn't stupidity, it is only stupid to those that dwell in falsehood, yet have the audacity to call themselves a Jesus defender, more of a joke if you ask me as well as hypocrisy. The reality is, God's Word is there, its in the oldest source, but to add on to God's Word, that is where the falsehood lies, and those who accept and believes it, such ones like you, will often defend it when the only source we have from back in the day ultimately crushes the belief of which you deem as true regarding specific verses, you have shown me to be in the right with the verses you posted, not realizing some of the verses in question are cited by you, that my friend, is stupidity and foolish.

Sad person? This coming from a man who made claims that there are 2 other Gods besides the Father then turn back to say only the Father is God? Very telling and quite most, evident. Like I say to everyone here, to the CSE, to those in Islam, to the Jews, to the Satanist, to the Anti-Religious, to the Lost ones, I speak the truth and will defend the truth and nothing but the truth, for I adhere strictly to scripture and what the bible says in addition to the understanding of one's Christology, mainly with those who follow what is true and what is not true.

 

I suggest you start opening your eyes, Deserter because you keep them shut, on purpose even. And spare insults, for you are making checks you cannot cash from the very beginning.

Also, "LOL" in caps? I am sure you are grown, such meaningless fortune cookie nonsense is unnecessary, save that for your buddies of your at work.

[BroRando]

You still haven't produced one simple scripture that states, Jesus is God?  Where is it??  Is that why you changed your stance that Jesus is Jehovah?  No scripture of that either. .....  Nor can you show one in Your Pagan Doctrines...  

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15,  NEHEMIAH 9:6,  PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ),  PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5.

None of those state that Jesus is God.  Why are you lying?  Oh... I remember the Scripture on why you are lying.  "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22)

See how your true colors come out when you teach that Jesus is God?  You publicly denied the Father and the Son. You keep denying that Jesus is the Christ, that is why I say you are dying the second death.  Only those hurl into Gehenna begin to weep and gnash their teeth. Today, I am happy to report this prophecy has come true for you.  "Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things.  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be." (Matthew 13:40-42)

See that, the Son of Man sends his angels to collect you and because you have been pitched into the fiery furnace, your weeping and gnashing of teeth has begun.  You are being brought to Nothing.... "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence" (2 Thess 2:8)    

Jesus is not God nor is he ALL KNOWING as you claim.  According to Jesus' own teaching... he states, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matthew 24:36)  Geez... claiming Jesus is All knowing has been exposed by by the spirit of his mouth, but I NEVER met an honest trinitarian... they all lie and twist in the same manner of their father who Jesus called the Father of the LIE.  You sure work hard in denying the Christ.

 

 

 

 

[BroRando]

WHen trinitarians can’t show a scripture of three separate persons make up one God, they then switch to Modalism, saying “Jesus is God”. The trinity is like a three legged stool. Remove one leg and the trinity comes tumbling down.

So they hurl insults and accusations. When the teaching of the demons get expose, they tend to taunt, scream, and hurl accusations. But very soon they will be abyssed. So now let’s carry on to John 1:1c.

Other translations:

1808: “and the Word was a god” – Thomas Belsham The New Testament

1822: “and the Word was a god” – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)

1829: “and the Word was a god” – The Monotessaron;

1863: “and the Word was a god” – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)

1864: “and a god was the Word” – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)

1867: “In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God” – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible

1879: “and the Word was a god” – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)

1885: “and the Word was a god” – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)

1911: “and the Word was a god” – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)

1935: “and the Word was divine” – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago

1955: “so the Word was divine” – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.

1956: “In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity” – The Wuest Expanded Translation[16]

1958: “and the Word was a god” – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed” (J. L. Tomanec, 1958);

1970, 1989: “…and what God was, the Word was” – The Revised English Bible
1975 “and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word” – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany

1975: “and the Word was a god” – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);

1978: “and godlike sort was the Logos” – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin

2017: “In the origin there was the Logos, and the Logos was present with GOD, and the Logos was god;” – The New Testament: A Translation, by David Bentley Hart.[18]

John 1:1c is rendered in the feminine sense relating to Christ divinity. Words like Deity, Divine, Wisdom, Beginning are all feminine nouns that describe Christ’s Divinity as a Divine Creation.   To request a free home Bible Study click here.

Bible scholars proclaim that theos can only be rendered in the Masculine Sense but is that 'the truth"??

Strong's Concordance

theos: God, a god

Original Word: θεός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine; Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: theos
Phonetic Spelling: (theh'-os)
Short Definition: God, a god
Definition: (a) God, (b) a god, generally.

Jesus admitted of coming from the 'gods' which the Word of God was sanctified and came.   Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, You blaspheme; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:34-36)     

 

 

 

 

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/26/2018 at 2:32 AM, Brother Rando said:

You still haven't produced one simple scripture that states, Jesus is God?  Where is it??  Is that why you changed your stance that Jesus is Jehovah?  No scripture of that either. .....  Nor can you show one in Your Pagan Doctrines...  

 

Do you want those particular words "Jesus is God" ? You won't find them. Nor will you find "computer" or "Jehovahs Witnesses".

 

I have shown time and time again that Jesus claimed to be God, but you are so brainwashed by your cult you cannot refute those passages and instead simply quote other passages that you think support your theory.

 

I have started another thread, but i see you have not bothered to go there.

I have NEVER changed my stance that Jesus is Jehovah God.

 

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None of those state that Jesus is God.  Why are you lying?  Oh... I remember the Scripture on why you are lying.  "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son" (1 John 2:22)

 

Oh, my ignorant, idiotic friend. I never said those passages state that Jesus is God, you fool.

 

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See how your true colors come out when you teach that Jesus is God?  You publicly denied the Father and the Son. You keep denying that Jesus is the Christ, that is why I say you are dying the second death.  Only those hurl into Gehenna begin to weep and gnash their teeth. Today, I am happy to report this prophecy has come true for you.  "Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things.  The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness,  and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be." (Matthew 13:40-42)

 

 

"true colors" ? blah blah blah.

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See that, the Son of Man sends his angels to collect you and because you have been pitched into the fiery furnace, your weeping and gnashing of teeth has begun.  You are being brought to Nothing.... "Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence" (2 Thess 2:8)    

But you JW's dont believe in a fiery furnace! LOL.

Thanks for condemning me to a place you think does not exist!

 

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Jesus is not God nor is he ALL KNOWING as you claim.  According to Jesus' own teaching... he states, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matthew 24:36)  Geez... claiming Jesus is All knowing has been exposed by by the spirit of his mouth, but I NEVER met an honest trinitarian... they all lie and twist in the same manner of their father who Jesus called the Father of the LIE.  You sure work hard in denying the Christ.

 

You can keep repeating your mantra "Jesus is not God" as much as you like. It does not make it true.

 

Like i have said, i have started another thread with 4 verses that support my position, so lets discuss those 4 passages.

 

You have never met an honest trinitarian?

 

Well, i have never met an honest JW. The watchotwer has proven themselves to be dishonest, liars and as a leading Greek scholar says "diabolical deceivers", so lets not play the honesty claim.

 

I have told you why i dont address ALL your points.

 

If you want to pick ONE verse that you think supports your position, present it and lets discuss it.  ONE verse.

 

I know the standard, robotic ones JW's use and i can address each and every one. 

 

But, ONE verses per comment.

 

If you dare.

[Jesus.defender]

On 6/26/2018 at 2:04 AM, Space Merchant said:

He called you such because you are speaking of slander, you incite Christian Infighting (a big problem with the West), you bring

Hang on, one thing at a time.

 

slander?

 

Please be more specific. WHO have i slandered? Please quote.

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forth a doctrine that it's even biblical, you use the information from a Wiccan to spread interfaith hate, you are an advocate of breaking God's Laws which is the case with the mainstream, let alone adhering to false ones, and the list goes on. 

 

Like i said to your buddy, you can chant your mantra about the trinity as much as you want. Does not make it true.

 

Go to my new thread and address the 4 passages i mentioned.

But, you won't. I know.

wiccan? LOL. You don't know what you are talking about.

 

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We are all indeed sinners, but there is a clear line between those who know they are imperfect vs. those who are imperfect, but sin openly and being ignorant of it.

Yes, those who recognize they are sinners and are born again have their sins blotted out. They are STILL sinners and still sin, though.

 

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There is no question that HE, is the only God, the only one, the very one that all young Jews profess as a child and read the Old Testament about, this includes Jesus.

Ah, the shema. Yes, i believe the shema too.

 

Remember too, BTW: that Jesus is called "Everlasting Father".

 

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Very true, however your other posts tend to be very contradicting to this response.

• John 8:58 - This verse does not prove Jesus is God for if you recognize what the sons of the Devil were doing verses before and even chapters in what they wanted to do to Jesus. Moreover, I AM (ego eimi) does not prove anything, for not only it is a common Greek saying, Jesus was only making acknowledgement that he pre-existed before Abraham, no mention of him being El Shaddai, Yahweh/Jehovah. This has already been covered here

 

It sure does fit the bill. Moses asked God what His name was. Jesus said it was ego eimi. Jesus used the SAME name.

please DONT tell me to go to another thread. keep everything in this one please.

 

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• John 1:1 - This verse speaks of the Genesis Act of Creation, hence verses 3-6 and the mention John the Baptist several

That's NOT what the text says. It says Jesus created ALL things. It does NOT say Jesus created ALL things in the Genesis Act of Creation.

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•  
• verses onward. The Word if from God because it is His spoken Word, the Word became flesh because Jesus was the one who became a man, the Word is God because we clearly see that God himself had said the following about the coming

Yes, and Jesus is the Word.

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•  
•  
• prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18, also the very one mentioned in Isaiah (also scroll of Isaiah as seen in Luke 4). God had said that he will raise up for them a prophet, one that is like their brothers (Jews). he continues to say that He  will put His words in his mouth, and this prophet will speak to them all that He will command of this prophet. Therefore we know the Word is God because the Word is of God, Jesus, who is the prophet, is the Word because he speaks God's Word, and from the very beginning the Word, that originated from God spoke everything into existence. Further evidence we also have is the Tanakh/Old Testament (they focused specifically on the Torah) of which the Samartians strictly follow, for they lived apart from the Jews and their area was Mount Gerizim, for they awaited this Prophet who speaks God's Word, and we see this unfold in John chapter 4 when Jesus spoke with the Samaritan Woman at the Well of Jacob, despite how Samaritans and Jews view each other, but for Jesus, he ha the utmost respect for the Samaritans and didn't go bashing their views, as you are doing, for Jesus set an example for us to follow. It was here that Jesus revealed himself to be the Messiah, the one sent by God, and clearly we see the reaction of the woman, and eventually the Samaritan people. God is the Word, the Word is of God.

 

Amen, we may know the Word is God. Jesus is the Word.

 

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• John 20:28 - Quoting from my article, the facts that come straight from the very pages of the scriptures in the Bible shows us that Thomas was confessing what Jesus had taught him - to see Jesus is to see the Father (John 14:10-11; 12:44-45). That human flesh named Jesus declares the Father (John 1:18). In fact, the entire point of the Gospel of John is to illustrate how the man Jesus made God the Father known. Since there is only one God, Thomas was necessarily referring to Jesus Christ's God when he said, "my God." When all the evidence is put before us, there is simply no doubt that Thomas was affirming Jesus' earlier teaching to him, that to see and believe in Jesus was to see and believe in the Father, the God of Jesus, the God of Thomas (20:17). Jesus himself tells us in this Gospel that he declared/explained the Father in terms of everything he said and did. John tells us the same thing - Jesus came so that we might know the Father, the true God (1 John 5:20). He is the Way to the Father and through Him we know the Father. Jesus explained that they saw the Father when they saw Jesus because the Father abiding in him did the works (14:9-10). How much more then was the Father abiding in that dead body which had the Father had risen from the dead by the power of His Holy Spirit which proceeds from THE FATHER and which Jesus breathed into his disciples (see 20:21-22). Since seeing Jesus meant seeing the Father, Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God. Thomas is confessing what the entire Gospel of John is about. Jesus made the Father known to the people of the world. The only begotten declares/explains the Father. For that reason, to see Jesus is to see the Father. To see the Lord Jesus is to see the Father, our God, and Jesus Christ's God. This can be found here

 

Again, DONT direct me to another thread or link, please.

 

So, you are saying that Thomas merely believed what Jesus taught. So Jesus taught that He was God. Yes, to see Jesus IS to see the Father because Jesus is God and the Father is God.

Thomas addresses Jesus as ‘My Lord and my God’, thus recognizing Jesus as Jehovah God the Son. Jesus commended Thomas on his belated acknowledgement of Jesus as God.

Now, what is the Jewish penalty for blasphemy? Stoning to death. So, If Jesus is not God, this statement should of resulted in a stoning.

So, did Jesus pick up stones? No, Jesus commended Thomas for believing that Jesus was both Lord and God.

 

Thomas addresses Jesus as ‘My Lord and my God’, thus recognizing Jesus as Jehovah God the Son. Jesus commended Thomas on his belated acknowledgement of Jesus as God.

Thomas wasn’t calling Jesus ‘a god’; he was calling Jesus his Lord and his God. If Jesus was not Almighty God, He would have corrected Thomas by saying something like, ‘No, I am just a god, a lesser god. Jehovah is the only true God. You must not put me in Jehovah’s place. Only Jehovah may be called my Lord and my God.’ But Jesus said no such nonsense. He commended Thomas for recognizing Him as the true God. If Thomas said ‘My Lord and my God’ as an emotional exclamation of astonishment, as
 

 

it is such a shame you refuse to read my PDFs.