Muhammad

[JOHN BUTLER]

Looking at it from purely a Christian viewpoint, and as i see it the only viewpoint that should be used, then Muhammad was a false prophet. And i further conclude that the faith of Islam is from the Devil. 

There is no fence to sit on. There is no halfway mark. A true Christian must be open and tell the truth on such matters.

Islam is false religion and Muhammad was a false prophet serving the Devil. 

It is good that you have knowledge and that you make clear the lies that some people tell of such matters, but the facts remain as I have stated here.

Christian love to you SM.  

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Looking at it from purely a Christian viewpoint, and as i see it the only viewpoint that should be used, then Muhammad was a false prophet. And i further conclude that the faith of Islam is from the Devil. 

Indeed, there are many faiths, but only a few led us to the True God. Regardless of you view, it should not allow you to jump to conclusions by unawaringly accepting misinformation about someone, a group, etc. At least know their faith and not believe in the falsehood that is presented by that false billboard.

Be it you agree with them or not, slander shouldn't be a means against these people.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

There is no fence to sit on. There is no halfway mark. A true Christian must be open and tell the truth on such matters.

A True Christian would also know that if someone speaks slander, that they would not immediately side with the slanderer. The Muslims may not have the same faith as we have, although there is some common ground, it should not allow us to make up things about their faith, mainly in regards to Aisha whereas doing so will only cause among the educated of Muslims to come at us regarding Mary and legitimate virgin wives of which they call sex slaves whereas in reality, an educated Christian can explain such things.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Islam is false religion and Muhammad was a false prophet serving the Devil. 

Islam is clearly a misguided faith, after all, recall in the Bible, the Old Testament of whom they originated from, and the reason as to why they were not of the tribes of Israel - the Muslims became a nation of their own from their Father, hence why they have a view and belief the way they do.

I wouldn't call them worshipers of the Devil. A Devil worshiper is one who is against God and speaks of things that has nothing to do with God. To make claim that they worship the Devil is silly, if anything, the Muslims are simply on a path but they are misguided.

 

A side form that, regarding your statement, you'll have to prove that they worship the Devil, serving him even otherwise your claim holds no merit.

One of the CORE differences between a True Christian and a Muslim is that Christians believe in Jesus' sacrifice, Muslims believe this too, but they do not believe he had been executed, but saved before that happened, and then ascended into heaven.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is good that you have knowledge and that you make clear the lies that some people tell of such matters, but the facts remain as I have stated here.

None of what I said are lies, and I invite you to prove that I am lying because never once have a ever stated a lie. The irony of it all you didn't click on the link that even tells you the image that Jack Ryan posted was false.

So do not make a claim you cannot cash, and it is evident the lack of religious study is in you because you actually believe what that image says whereas in reality, those misconceptions have been exposed to be false, and a truth is being spoken.

You tell me Butler, why would an under-aged person be at the Battle of Uhud? Aisha wasn't under-aged at all.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Christian love to you SM.

Indeed, however as a reminder, to not allow yourself to be this gullible and easily fooled by an image:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/indiana-muslims-muhammads-deeds/

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

 

 

On 12/27/2018 at 6:07 PM, Space Merchant said:

@Jack Ryan Still nothing, Jack? You do realize when it comes to Da'wah, it is still in progress, right?

You seem to be speaking as a Muslim here. 

https://www.islamicity.org/3143/divine-methodology-of-dawah/

Instructions to muslims ? 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

@Space Merchant Quote "Indeed, there are many faiths, but only a few led us to the True God.. " 

You think there is more than one Faith ?  More than one way of serving God properly ?   

Quote "Be it you agree with them or not, slander shouldn't be a means against these people."  You are right of course. Because slander is lies, whereas truth must be told. 

Quote "To make claim that they worship the Devil is silly, .. "  I didn't say they worshipped the Devil, I said they were serving the Devil. But perhaps i should have worded it better. Muslims are being used by the Devil, the same as the Devil uses other false religions. The Devil uses governments and big business people as well. 

Quote "One of the CORE differences between a True Christian and a Muslim is that Christians believe in Jesus' sacrifice, Muslims believe this too, but they do not believe he had been executed, but saved before that happened, and then ascended into heaven." 

If Jesus did not die as a perfect human then the price has not been paid. Jesus DID die to pay the ransom, the perfect price paid for the sin of Adam. One perfect man died to pay for the other perfect man that sinned. In this all true Christians have hope.  This in itself proves that Islam is a lie. To say that Jesus did not willingly give his life for us is totally against God and His Christ.

Quote " None of what I said are lies... "  I'm sorry if my wording is unclear. What i was meaning was that you proved that other people were telling lies. I did not mean they you were telling lies. 

Quote, "because you actually believe what that image says whereas in reality, those misconceptions have been exposed to be false, .. "

I care not what the sign says, but you are correct i have not studied Islam or the Quran. Nor would I. I think the Pope of the Catholic church dables in Islam and has the Quran read to him, proving the Pope himself is a false christian. I have no need of Islam or the Quran. There is only one true God and only one true Son of God, Jesus Christ. i have this faith in God, and i have no need to dig into in the Devil's work. 

We could talk of much more but we will not agree on much. In my opinion God does not want people to be of multi-faith or to give place to other faiths. If a person does not believe that Jesus was sent to this Earth to give his life willingly on our behalf, then what conversation is there ? If there is no level ground, and if God Himself is being insulted, then those that insult God in such a way should be kept away from. To try to teach people is good of course, but to be friends with those that will not respect God and His son Jesus Christ, is not so good. 

[Space Merchant]

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You seem to be speaking as a Muslim here. 

https://www.islamicity.org/3143/divine-methodology-of-dawah/

Instructions to muslims ? 

Da'wah is an Arabic word which means to invite,call or summon someone. The term is also used when correcting someone in regards to the misconceptions of said faith, which is common.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You think there is more than one Faith ?

If you have forgotten, I was very adamant on those who strive to be like the early church in of itself, for True Christians are known by God and these same True Christians will go out of their way to do things like the early church. Either achieving it and or attempting to be like the apostolic church.

 

The True faith includes, accepting the teachings about God and his Son. Taking in as to what God's Kingdom will do for you and for mankind. Applying said teachings as is with proclaiming, preaching the gospel of the Kingdom and the Messianic Age, and putting into application a Christ-Like Life Style and the Fruits of the Spirit, taking in the examples from prophets and teachers and their actions as imperfect men in a world that is open to learn about God, misguided on who God is, and those who teach a false doctrine about God, etc.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote "Be it you agree with them or not, slander shouldn't be a means against these people."  You are right of course. Because slander is lies, whereas truth must be told. 

Exactly, and a truth I had spoken, therefore the information on that image to which Jack has posted is incorrect, and wrong, and it is targeting a group of persons in a negative light. It does not take long to realize the errors when the information that expresses the truth in the face of these misconceptions is revealed.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote "To make claim that they worship the Devil is silly, .. "  I didn't say they worshipped the Devil, I said they were serving the Devil. But perhaps i should have worded it better.

So to you what is the difference between someone who serves the Devil and to one who worships the Devil?

When someone religiously supports to whom they worship in turn they serve them also. The notion here regardless of the word still stands, be it serving and or worshiping int not a honorable sense, but a religious one.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I said they were serving the Devil.

When someone religious serves something or someone, in turn what does that equate to? As I recall, even Jesus pointed this out when telling someone to not just worship, but to serve also.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If Jesus did not die as a perfect human then the price has not been paid. Jesus DID die to pay the ransom, the perfect price paid for the sin of Adam.

Exactly the point I made the same one I made a long time ago on this forum, elsewhere, and even in debate. We as Christians believe in what Jesus sacrifice entails, and we know what the New Covenant is all about, and Jesus' ascension into Heaven, although the Muslims believe this too, as said, the core difference is that they do not believe he died, or in this sense, a perfect man slain and or killed by imperfect men. Furthermore, they also believe that God somehow materialized another man, to look like Jesus, as a substitute, and or doppelganger to take the place of the Christ himself whereas the real Christ was already in preparation to ascend into Heaven.

Despite this, like us, they also believe that Jesus will return in the conclusion of the End Times. It can also be said that this thought is supported by the works of a Greek Cleric, also a Bishop and Martyr, Saint Irenaeus (130–202 AD) regarding Alexandrian Gnostic Basilides in a refutation. of the denial of the death of the Christ.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

One perfect man died to pay for the other perfect man that sinned.

This is already known, also do not forget about the New Covenant. Regarding Muslims, they believed God had saved him and Jesus had ascended into Heaven later on, hence what is mentioned in my previous statement above this one.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In this all true Christians have hope. 

Exactly.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

This in itself proves that Islam is a lie.

But your last statement was directed to something else as a lie, not that of Jesus' death, but rather, regarding Aisha and all things regarding the Prophet of their Qu'ran, to which I still await for you to point out as to which of that is mentioned in that image and what I said is a lie.

Clearly they are misguided, yes, but to accept misconceptions as a truth will only spark those to speak up and point out the errors as presented on that image.

We do not have to agree with them regarding the death of the Christ, but to slander them about a someone who was supposedly a 6 year old, that is stretching it when the Battle of Uhud is among several evidence that Aisha was not a child.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

To say that Jesus did not willingly give his life for us is totally against God and His Christ.

Their view is that God willingly saved Jesus from the hands of imperfect man that seeks blood. Their view is similar to ours but the death and crucifixion is the only difference regarding them to True Christians.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Quote " None of what I said are lies... "  I'm sorry if my wording is unclear. What i was meaning was that you proved that other people were telling lies. I did not mean they you were telling lies. 

Alright, but although the Muslims are not like us True Christians, we should not be gullible to false information, even by the slightest.

For example, I can dislike you, for an action you have done or something that you or your household has done, but if someone speaks slander and lies about you despite me having already known who the type of person you are, clearly I'd say something to refute the slander coming your way.

As for the Muslims of the Islamic faith, they should not be slandered against at all, knowing who they are and their views makes it easier to come to common ground to even preach to them.

You live in the United Kingdom, and I told you before, do not go to Hyde Park if you lack in Spiritual Wisdom, otherwise you'd get hammered, and there are Christians there, who are coming to common ground with Muslims to combat one thing and one thing only despite their difference - The Doctrine of the Trinity.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I care not what the sign says, but you are correct i have not studied Islam or the Quran.

You don't have to, even without any knowledge of the Qu'ran, historical accounts provides said evidence as to why this happen, why was this done, why this is or that, etc. It is in as much the same way as we in Christendom who know the truth, come to know the truth about God and his Kingdom, as is with his Son.

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think the Pope of the Catholic church dables in Islam and has the Quran read to him, proving the Pope himself is a false christian.

"False teacher", not "False Christian", the Pope of the Vatican is a Catholic, despite this, it does not negate us to know what the view of the Catholics actually is. A False Christian would be a Christian who says he or she is Christian, but applies teachings not of the church, and practices, as is with willfully proclaiming Heresies and or lies about God, and or using God and or the Bible to justify a practice, i.e. "Deus Vult [God Wills it]! It is because of God that I am allowed to hold a firearm to put to death any atheist, be it man, woman or child." Another example would be "God will burn you in hell time and time again and there is nothing you can do about it, for that is where you are going <sometimes this type of Christian will proceed to cuss and speak in vulgarly, and the tone has changed> "another example would be "God hates all <the person can say that God hates all races but accepts one>" Things of that nature. There is also the Lukewarm Christian. A Fake Christian is also a type of Christian who lives a double-life, willfully committing ill and or brazen conduct and sin despite claiming to be a Christian, and he or she goes about things with no feeling of guilt and or remorse for their sin, and or acknowledges he or she has a problem, example this type Christian of this form only becomes and or pretends to be a Christian to seek out and commit harm to others, even other Christians, other things would be that these type of Christians go out of their way to willfully sin, as in, sleep with all types of men and or women out of wedlock, feeding into sexual desires of the flesh and abuses God's forgives only to go back to do the same thing over and over again, this is the same case with materialistic Christians who are of greed, and there is more. So it isn't difficult to tell from a misguided one from a false one.

That being said, the Pope dwells on interfaith, he does not care about what the views of the Muslims are, let alone any faith expect his own, he cares for uniting the faiths and by means of trickery, government, UN, and other entities that are in this conquest for peace, he has persuaded the masses, even among the Muslims to side with him, Muslims who join the Pope speak out against Muslims who do not join.

And again, since you are in the United Kingdom, it should have been obvious to you of how your country is like regarding Muslims who side with them and those that do not. Last I recall, a Canadian Woman and her team was banned from your country because they offended the Muslims, although it didn't bother them, but it bothered the UK government, and the irony of it all is that this woman did an experiment with Christendom and no one bats an eye. The bbc went out of their way to say this woman was an Anti-Islamist as well.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I have no need of Islam or the Quran.

Ok. But it does not stop one from seeing lies that are professed as truth in regards to their view. Reasons why what I said and the evidence to refute Jack is revealed, despite the response being made for Jack who began this, you took his place by responding.

That being said, it would also be wise to take up a parallel example regarding the Jews and the Samaritans, one notable example we can learn from Jesus is when we read John chapter 4 in full, when it is known the history of the Jews and their neighbors who holds a view different from theirs.

As another read, the passage about the Good Samaritan and or the time Jesus healed several people, one of them who came back to thank him was a Samaritan.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

There is only one true God and only one true Son of God, Jesus Christ.

Indeed. But even having believing in the True God and his Son, it does not negate you from doing what you are being commanded to do, and or not go about what the early church has been teachings to it's people.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

i have this faith in God, and i have no need to dig into in the Devil's work. 

And how are you so sure it is the work of the Devil? If anything they are misguided and reasons why we must understand them in order to preach to them, which is the case in Hyde Park whereas Christians manage to come to a common ground with them in order to combat a common enemy. Muslims are also of the Abrahamic Faith, remember of whom in the Bible they originated from and why a majority of them reside in the Middle East.

The Works of the Devil those doing anything and everything to nullify God's Words, and the teachings, even that of His Son. An example would be the teaching that God somehow became a man, and God has been killed, something of which is of the Devil is very obvious.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

We could talk of much more but we will not agree on much.

It depends on what is being talked about. Originally it began with the belief of Jesus and the misconceptions found on that image. For you alluded to what that image had said only to be corrected, despite me knowing this, you made claim I support Islam when only I had spoke about the misconceptions people preach that is false about Islam, clearly not support, but educating the truth of the mater to those who believe and or accept falsehood.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In my opinion God does not want people to be of multi-faith or to give place to other faiths.

Clearly. Because interfaith on this conquest for peace is not of God, but of man.

But it does not negate the fact we must understand our neighbor in order to preach to our neighbor. This is why it is said in the Bible we must preach to the people of the nations.

For example, Paul and Barnabas knew the practices and teachings of those in the city of Lystra, and due to the both of them performing a miracle, the both of them were referred to Zeus and Hermes, knowing this, you can clearly see the response from them, telling the people they are just mortal men and not these false gods. In fact, it isn't unknown to anyone the practices of such people and others in Asia Minor.

Just like us today, we should be preaching the truth of the gospel and the Messianic Age to all persons, in the end, it is up to them to accept the truth or not, no one is forcing them, and God knows who is for him and those who are willing to understand said truths. It does not stop us from even understanding who the Muslims are, and preaching to them.

They believe that the only God is Allah, some, if not most of them even say that Allah is YHWH (Yahweh and or Jehovah), regarding God you can preach to them. Regarding God's Son Jesus, whom they call Isa, you can preach to them as well, coming to a common ground to teach the person, in the end it is up to them to accept the truth or not, for a True Christian is understanding of his or her neighbor, those of whom they preach to.

Reasons why in my case, I understand them, seeing them as misguided, however their history is evident, knowing who they are, I know how to preach to them. Attempting to preach to them while being ignorant and or unaware of things, example, Aisha, will only land you in a world of hurt and a debate that you will not be able to win, reasons why I strongly tell you to not go to Hyde Park unless you are Spiritually Strong in Wisdom, as is with history of the Bible and or Christianity.

In fairness for Muslims, most of their peers make claim that ALL Christians believe in the Trinity, they also attest that even our counterparts, JWs, also believe in the Trinity. At these, even Muslims whose, again, views differ from us, but some parts being similar, will profess that not all Christians believe in the Trinity, and they will speak up in the face of misconception. Likewise, True Christians will do the same.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If a person does not believe that Jesus was sent to this Earth to give his life willingly on our behalf, then what conversation is there ?

They believe Jesus was sent, reasons why they speak of him as a Prophet. They just do not believe he has been executed, and state that God saved Jesus out of the hands of imperfect hands that wish to kill him, and after this, Jesus had ascended.

There is a conversation, Butler, despite this their view regarding the death and resurrection of the Christ, you can still preach the gospel to them, this is why when it comes to understanding them, you have to understand who they are and their views, this includes as to why they believe in salvation without Jesus dying.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If there is no level ground,

On the contrary there is. You'd be surprised how Muslims are willing to listen if you come to common grounds, knowing them, their views, etc. I say this from experience, and even in my days as an inexperienced child, not knowing how other people are regarding God. It was only later in my pre-teen years I began reading as to why others hold different views and later on in life I become an effective proclaimer of the gospel due to now knowing of whom I am dealing with.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

if God Himself is being insulted, then those that insult God in such a way should be kept away from.

And how is God being insulted? It should also be aware to you that the Muslims follow a very strong Law that even Jesus professed, even affirmed. This Law was spoken by God and brought forth for God's people to follow.

12 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

To try to teach people is good of course, but to be friends with those that will not respect God and His son Jesus Christ, is not so good. 

Yes, we must preach to them, knowing someone as a neighbor you have to befriend them in order to preach effectively, mainly if the one being preached to is willing to accept, examples like the rare conversation of Jesus to a leader of the Jews. Likewise, we do the same.

And nowhere they show a disrespect for God, for as I stated, although misguided, they have been fighting to defend God, even going as far as to use the Bible in order to do so. A disrespect to God would be if their faith willfully accepts and speaks heresy, even embrace it.

[Space Merchant]

@Jack Ryan You know, I asked you nearly a year ago pertaining to your so called findings, and still you have nothing. I am making this response because there was a debate where your information was called up exactly and your findings are unfounded. This goes back to what I had said about some Atheists, such ones like yourself, to convey without no repercussion of what comes next.

 

That being said, the attempt was nothing more but a mirror to a Walmart version of David Wood.