Armageddon Predictions by Jehovah's Witnesses

[TrueTomHarley]

Perched high up in the mainsail crowsnest of the good ship JesusDefender, crewman Jack gazed at the horizon.

”Look sharp, up there,” First Mate Rook bellowed, “but not too sharp! I’m enjoying the best meal I ever had down here in the Zaire galley. Don’t screw it up!”

“Belay that order!” Captain Goneaway roared. “Keep on the watch up there! The dreaded pirate ship TerribleA is in these waters, trying to catch us with our pants down!”

”Yeah, whatever,” crewman Jack replied, as he removed his pants on account of the blistering heat. “This ‘keep on the watch’ stuff can be overdone. I’ll spot the TerribleA when its bow crashes through the deck and pinches my toes!”

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Which (with respect)  is what you are taking, judging from some of the comments here.

For anyone who might have missed the joke I was (and therefore now you, too, are) referring to, it was here:

Jehovah's Witnesses Hierarchical View of Everyone

James Thomas Rook Jr. replied to Jack Ryan's topic in Jehovah's Witnesses

...and on the bottom is a label that says "Urine samples ", which my wife did not see, 'cause it was on the bottom. She wrote a very nasty letter to the Betty Crocker cake mix people. ..... apologies to TBBT, and Sheldon Cooper

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

”Yeah, whatever,” crewman Jack replied, as he removed his pants on account of the blistering heat. “This ‘keep on the watch’ stuff can be overdone. I’ll spot the TerribleA when its bow crashes through the deck and pinches my toes!”

But alas, Captain Goneaway was wrong ... as every Captain in the history of the World had also been wrong ... and the TerribleA ... so far... had been only a seafaring boogyman to scare the deck hands, and empty their pockets.

... and crewman Jack got a nice over-all tan while the rest of the crew got heat stroke, and died.

[TrueTomHarley]

“Aye, look ye sharp up there, Jack, for the approaching ship TerribleA! She’s out there! Oh yes, she’s out there!” ordered Captain Goneaway. 

“But I forgot what I was supposed to do,” whined Jack.

”Very well, me lad. I’ll send Second Mate JWI up there to give you some pointers about what to look out for.”

“NO! NOT HIM! I REMEMBER HOW TO DO IT. I WAS JUST FUNNING. I DIDN’T MEAN...” screamed Jack in a panic.

But it was too late. Second Mate JWI joined him aloft, with his reassuring manner, he having sailed in the old days with Captain Schroeder and Captain Franz. Aye, JWI was his usual pithy self when he put his arm around the inexperienced sailor, and gave him some reminders:

”This is a question doubtless that many ask themselves, viz: "How soon will our change come?" This change many of us have looked forward to for years, and we yet with much pleasure, think of the time when we shall be gathered unto Jesus and see Him as he is. In the article concerning our change, in December paper, we expressed the opinion that it was nearer than many supposed, and while we would not attempt to prove our change at any particular time, yet we propose looking at some of the evidences which seem to show the translation or change from the natural to the spiritual condition, due this side or by the fall of our year 1881. The evidence that our change will be by that time, increases since we have seen that the change to spiritual bodies is not the marriage. While we thought the marriage to be the change, and knowing there was three and a half years of special favor to the Nominal Church (now left desolate) from 1878, we could not expect any translation this side of 1881, or during this three and a half years. But since we recognize that going into the marriage is not only being made ready (by recognizing His presence) for the change, but also, that going in includes the change itself, then the evidences that we go in (or will be changed) inside of the time mentioned are strong, and commend themselves to all interested as worthy of investigation. Aside from any direct proof that our change is near, the fact that the manner of the change can now be understood, is evidence that we are near the time of the change, for truth is "meat in due season," and understood only as due. It will be remembered that after the spring of 1878, (when we understand Jesus was due as King) that the subject of holiness or the wedding garment, was very much agitated. And aside from the parallel to the end of the Jewish age, and favor at that time being shown to the Jewish nation, which implied the presence of the King, the consideration of the wedding garment, was also proof of the correctness of the application, for "the King had come in to see the guests," [Matt. 22:11] and hence all were interested in knowing how they stood before Him. Now as the inspection of guests is the last thing prior to our change, which precedes the marriage and we are all now considering the change. It would seem that the time for it, is nigh.

•  We shall now present what we adduce from the types and prophetic points as seeming to indicate the translation of the saints and closing of the door to the high calling by 1881. . . . [skipping a large portion on these evidences, some of which were considered "proofs" of 1874 that evidenced the correctness of 1881.] If this be a correct application (and it seems harmonious) and the time of building is seven years, then we would expect our change by or before the fall of 1881, as from 1874 to then would be the time given for building. . . .  by coming into a knowledge of the Bridegroom's presence, etc., during the seven years harvest [from 1874 to 1881] . . . and as the seven years are about complete, that we will soon follow by being changed. Matt. 25 and the parallelism of the Jewish and Gospel ages, seem to teach that the wise of the virgins "who are alive and remain" must all come in, to a knowledge of the bridegroom's presence, by the fall of 1881, when the door—opportunity to become a member of the bride—will close. 
• . . . We suggest as quite possible, that the change may come to some prepared before that time.
• . . .  "Yet seven days [years] and I will cause it to rain upon the earth," should be significant, because we have expected trouble, in a special sense, about 1881, and, according to the type, we must enter in by that time. . . . We used to think it would be in the midst of a great trouble that we would be changed, but now we do not. . . .  If the three years mentioned in connection with Aaron has any bearing, then it would teach our change as coming this side of 1881, as three years from 1878 would bring us inside of that time. . . .  We now have taken prophetic measurements and allegories together, [R182 : page 5] five different points seeming to teach the resurrection of the dead in Christ and change of the living between the fall of 1874 and 1881. Two or more witnesses are enough to prove any case, as a rule, and certainly God has given us abundant evidence. We are also glad to notice that all these things only corroborate previous truths, thus proving to a certainty each application as correct and causing the old jewels to shine brighter. The five lines of argument briefly stated are these:
• 1st. The days of Daniel ending in 1874, at which time the resurrection commenced, and since which, the dead have been going in to the marriage.
• 2d. The end of the seven years from that time, as marked by the parallel, of the end of the "seventy weeks" in the Jewish age ending in our year 1881, at which time we all should be in and the door closed, being the end of time of special favor to the nominal church before commencement of trouble which follows our change.

 [skipping more, etc. etc. etc.]

There are some cautionary statements built into the article, and statements that this is not proof, just evidence. But note what is done with the evidence. Intelligently-minded people know what this evidence means. And spiritually-minded people know that the faithful and wise servant is providing "food at the proper time" [meat in due season] and that this is the proper time for wise virgins to distinguish themselves from foolish virgins. Also, all this evidence is only evidence on its own, but as it adds up, it becomes "proof" to those who appreciate that God is giving us this evidence in abundance, and that even two of these five lines of evidence should therefore constitute enough to "prove any case" as a rule.

Here are some statements from the May 1881 Watch Tower magazine, p.224, on the same topic, now that the time for hesitation was due:

• The WATCH TOWER never claimed that the body of Christ will be changed to spiritual beings during this year. There is such a change due sometime. We have not attempted to say when, but have repeatedly said that it could not take place before the fall of 1881.

This was a true statement. The Watch Tower had not claimed that the body of Christ will be changed in 1881, only that the evidence about 1881 should be seen as proof by intelligent and spiritually minded persons who have a true faith and appreciation for God's truths. From this point forward, after failure was obvious, it would be easy to cherry-pick quotes that showed that no one had specifically said it would happen by the fall of 1881  -- even though it was supposed to obvious that for some it would likely happen even before the fall of 1881. But even this is just technicalities and semantics. It's true that they hadn't said it would definitely happen.

Still, there is dishonesty in the attempt to sweep all the embarrassment away. It's in the phrase: "We have not attempted to say when . . ." Is this a true statement? Was there really no attempt to say when the change would take place? That previous article on the topic of when, in January 1881 --only four months earlier--  might as well have been called "When Will the Change Take Place?" It was nothing if not an attempt to say when!

The claim might be technically true. But is it honest?”

he said.

[JW Insider]

5 hours ago, Anna said:

As I understand it, the emphasis might be on the imperfection rather than a number. That we are so far removed from perfection.

The daily text example was not as much of an echo of the "6,000 year" doctrine as other examples have been. But it's still not hard to see how so many of the references to and emphasis on 6,000 years still reverberates from the old 1975 issue.

For one thing, we could compare it with another time expression: such as "2,000 years" ago. We know that this expression must be used a lot because there there are dozens of reasons to use this particular time expression, not just two or three with reference to "6,000 years" ago. It might be used when referring to the birth, life, ministry, words, death and resurrection of Jesus, or the time of the apostles and other Bible writers, or the completion of the Bible itself, or the age of the oldest known extant texts of the Bible, such as the "Dead Sea Scrolls."

If we look at the Watchtower Library "DVD," which is now a free 2GB download from jw.org, we can see something interesting. Just look up the quoted phrases "6,000 years" and "six thousand years" and then compare this to "2,000 years" and "two thousand years." A quick click-through survey of a hundred or more examples of each tells a very interesting story. Over a long period, we get almost the same number of results for 6,000 years as we do for 2,000 years, but with much more consistent content in the 6,000 years examples. (Most of the 2,000 year examples are not specifically about Jesus, but about age of dead sea scrolls, when Paul wrote a specific verse, or the completion of the Bible canon.)

But we can probably boil it down to the essence by looking at the numbers of references to each expression from the years 1968 to 1976, when it was NOT equal and we can pretty much know the reason for this without even looking.

• 	6,000 yr	2,000 yr
  1968	21	4
  1969	16	5
  1970	12	5
  1971	6	1
  1972	10	2
  1973	7	3
  1974	13	1
  1975	22	7
  1976	13	2

Now for just a few more recent examples:

*** w18 January p. 26 par. 19 What Kind of Love Brings True Happiness? ***

• 19 After some 6,000 years of human misery, SatanÂ’s world is coming to its end.

*** w12 9/15 Peace for a Thousand Years—And Beyond! ***
[Study Questions]
1. What exciting prospect awaits the “great crowd”?
2. What have humans experienced during the past 6,000 years?
3. What will the Thousand Year Reign bring about?

*** ws12 10/15 pp. 15-16 par. 2 Obey God and Benefit From His Sworn Promises ***

• The Bible does not tell us exactly when it started. But we know that it started sometime after AdamÂ’s wife, Eve, was created about 6,000 years ago. The thousand years of ChristÂ’s reign will soon begin, and during this time God will fulfill his purpose for the earth. God wants the earth to be a paradise where perfect humans can live forever. (Genesis 1:27, 28; Revelation 20:6) You can be sure that you can have that happy future! “God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred.” This was a promise that no matter what happened, God would make sure that his purpose would come true by the end of his rest day.

*** w10 1/15 p. 32 par. 18 JehovahÂ’s Way of Ruling Vindicated! ***

• And consider, Satan has been causing harm for some 6,000 years, but God, through Christ, will undo all that harm within 1,000 years!

Many of the other dozens of references also mention that we've had six thousand years of human rule and therefore it's time for Christ's rule. True statement, but the connection of six thousand and one thousand recurs more often than not.

What we do less of now is taking our supposed knowledge to the level of just showing off. We have no idea if our promoted chronology is exactly correct, and we know for a fact that most of the years through the Neo-Babylonian period do not match any of the evidence. Yet we would say things like this:

*** w89 8/1 p. 10 par. 2 God Purposes That Man Enjoy Life in Paradise ***

• This occurred some 6,000 years ago, in the year 4,026 before our Common Era, according to the count of time given in the Holy Bible. It occurred in the land area of what is today known as Turkey, or in the southwestern part of what is now called Asia, somewhere in the neighborhood of the Euphrates River and the Tigris River, and thus in the northern half of our earthly globe. The time would be about October 1, since mankindÂ’s most ancient calendars began counting time near that date.

Really? October 1st? This is what I meant by "gnosis" or "falsely called knowledge." We don't really know if 4026 BCE is right, much less October 1.

This itself echoes the presumptuous way that the earlier Watch Tower publications speak of chronology, such as in the May 1881 issue referred to recently:

• The favor of the present (and which we believe will end in October, 1881) is not to the nominal church but to individuals in her, that they may come out and receive the present Lord. . . . Now, it was on the strength of this prophetic "shadow"which shows that the "door" would not close until this fall, that we said, the living would not be changed before that time. As to when our change is due we can only say: To our understanding it will be due at any time after October 2nd, 1881 . . . 

Really? Not a minute before October 2nd? 

*** w79 9/15 p. 24 par. 11 The “Cup” That All Nations Must Drink at God’s Hand ***

• But the reason simply is that about October 4/5, 1914, or 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem after the Babylonian conquest, the Gentile Times of uninterrupted world domination ended. Jehovah God did not then set up at earthly Jerusalem “JehovahÂ’s throne” for an earthly heir of King David to occupy it, thus reviving the typical earthly kingdom of God.

*** w75 11/1 p. 661 par. 15 The Time for Choosing God as Sovereign ***

• since the year 1914 C.E. In that year “the times of the Gentiles,” or, “the appointed times of the nations,” ended about October 4/5, when counted from the desolation of Jerusalem and the land of Judah by the Babylonians in the year 607 B.C.E.

Really? October 4/5, 1914 was 2,520 years from the desolating of Judah and Jerusalem? We can't even find evidence for the year 607 B.C.E. and yet we want to put a specific day which happens not to even coincide with Jerusalem's destruction, where all the known evidence, Biblical and secular, points to the summer of about 587 B.C.E.

 

[JW Insider]

21 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

JWI was his usual pithy self

I was only pithy because I thpilled the urine thample.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

47 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

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Now for just a few more recent examples:

*** w18 January p. 26 par. 19 What Kind of Love Brings True Happiness? ***

• 19 After some 6,000 years of human misery, SatanÂ’s world is coming to its end.

*** w12 9/15 Peace for a Thousand Years—And Beyond! ***
[Study Questions]
1. What exciting prospect awaits the “great crowd”?
2. What have humans experienced during the past 6,000 years?
3. What will the Thousand Year Reign bring about? ??

*** ws12 10/15 pp. 15-16 par. 2 Obey God and Benefit From His Sworn Promises ***

 

[Srecko Sostar]

16 hours ago, Anna said:

As I understand it, the emphasis might be on the imperfection rather than a number. That we are so far removed from perfection.

Yes, JW's most commonly mentioned such a reason (time distance) for evolution in human imperfection and increase in imperfection, with result in big wars, big evil and similar things as sign of last days.

I think that "increase in imperfection" not exist.  We can talking about "increase" of violence, of burglary in summer time, of hunger, of high pressure in people who living in towns ..... etc.

If Bible text said that in one particular day God throw out Adam and Eve from Eden with words of "curse" and how that make them "imperfect human" that can mean how in 1 second all have changed. To this moment you are perfect and from now on you are imperfect. Nothing about slow decrease in one characteristic and then slow increase in other characteristic. Killing is killing. No matter do you did this as perfect or imperfect human. Only increase, evolution, progress can be in methods and a means (knife or with Sonic weapon) of killing. With increase of population on Earth also goes increase of death.  Story abut Adam long life (and some other people in Genesis) that last for few centuries and how that means his/human slow decrease of perfection is something else. It is interesting that, as far as i know, Bible has no reports about how his long life looks in details and to tell us something about his decrease of mental, intellectual, spiritual and other features.

I think, if we talk about the amount, quantity of imperfection in a human, then it has nothing to do with some length in years (6000). The distance from Adam's point of perfection to today's man and our imperfection does not mean how with the years that pass from time point A to B (in our example 6,000 years) also increases human imperfections.

You are imperfect or not. You can not be more imperfect then you are. And also on other hand, if you or Adam  are perfect, you can not be more perfect then you are.

I am not talking about some skill that we improves with time. And in this case of issue about skill, we can ask; if you are perfect, does this means that all your skills are perfect? Does that means that your perfect skill will be more perfect after 10000 years? On other side if you are imperfect and if you have enough practice and talent your skill will be better, will be "perfect" in some point of time but only to some "highest" point that your imperfect perfection can reach. So, logic how with with the passing of time imperfect human/people become even more imperfect not sound reasonable to me.

People proved how they made some progress in all segments of life. Question that rises is, in what direction we going and using what we know and have. Perfect devil and perfect Adam and Eve proved that "perfection" are not guarantee for perfect life and all what that suppose to be. Knowledge that was "unknown" to first human, and ability to "differentiate" what is "good and bad" was became possible to them and people after them, only latter, after  they took the  fruit. So, we now  have that sort of knowledge too, what is good and what is bad. With or without Bible. Because Genesis said ,And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil." 

Well, as far as i can see now, our increasing or decreasing in something have some connection with time but not in the religious sense that JWorg explains why mankind  imperfection are bigger today then before and why we are in situation that we have now.   

[Anna]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Nothing about slow decrease in one characteristic and then slow increase in other characteristic.

If that was the case, how come Adam and Eve and some a few generations after them lived for hundreds of years? And now, despite incredible advances in medicine, people still find it difficult to cross the 100 year threshold. Although the imperfection the quote was talking about was mainly of a characteristic nature, surely everything works together, our physical deterioration includes our mental deterioration.

[TrueTomHarley]

Call me Ishmael. For many years I sailed onboard the Pequod with the crazed Captain Rook in his maniacal search for Moby Geddon.

"Captain, whale sighting dead ahead!" seawoman Anna shouted out. "Maybe you're wrong!" Rook muttered and shoved her so violently that she toppled overboard, petticoats all aflutter.

"Captain Rook," seaman JWI stated. "My calculations indicate a 78% probability of the while whale's proximity within 23 cubits. Of course, accuracy is necessary, but if you triumverate the trifecta intersect, the conclusion is justified. Look, if you will, at page 673 of 'Nautical Nocturnal Habits of Northern Hemisphere Mammals' that I brought from my private library, which along with others, explains why the entire ship lists six degrees. It clearly indicates (see chart) that...."

"Gag this fellow, and get him out of my sight!" roared Rook.

Moby Geddon breached and the consequent splash soaked every square inch of the vessel. "Captain!" seaman Goneaway shouted, "I sense the whale is near!" "Liar!" Rook shouted. "Throw him in irons below!"

"I'll handle that gladly sir, hehehehe ))))))" seaman Srecko responded.

Moby Geddon breached again and this time its tail caught the stern of the Pequod and spun it like a pinwheel. "Captain!" seaman Truetom cried, "Surely the whale is near!"

"Throw him to the sharks for calling me Shirly!" Rook bellowed. "I'll have respect here, do you hear?!"

"Now hear this, you scurvy dogs! I have a great job offer in Port Zaire, the best I've ever had, and I mean to get there straightaway. Don't cross me, or I'll have you walk the plank like I did seaman Franz and Shroeder long ago!"

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

If that was the case, how come Adam and Eve and some a few generations after them lived for hundreds of years? And now, despite incredible advances in medicine, people still find it difficult to cross the 100 year threshold. Although the imperfection the quote was talking about was mainly of a characteristic nature, surely everything works together, our physical deterioration includes our mental deterioration.

Yes, life span of those generation/s  are very long and then we have rapidly almost sudden cut to, what Moses has wrote, 70-80 years. Some said how people today living longer in many parts of world then before (before few decades or before few centuries), because of scientific and medicine progress. That is strange, indeed.   

Of course, human nature is complex. Physical and mental and other things are in deep connection. Deterioration in physical way not automatically leads to mental deterioration. Many people who have physical deficiency/defect are very intelligent, mentally, psychical  health persons and have spiritual, emotional  needs as others. 

Does people today have less need for love, compassion, understanding, beauty, ...etc.  then perfect Adam and Eve had, or first, second and third generation of First Couple who lived longer and perhaps in better body shape in comparing with nowadays people and was "closer" to perfection??? I don't think so. Our needs today are the same or even stronger in some moments. In that sense we are not showing any deterioration.      :))Thanks Anna! :))

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

our physical deterioration includes our mental deterioration.

Notwithstanding that "wicked men will advance from bad to worse" 2Tim 3:13. Over time I think that means.