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Shiwiii

The Earth and the meek

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9 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

the reality is it is a collection of persons who are chosen by God and or those destined for such a service.

It is believed and is true that only a few of these people are left and some will be alive until the End Times conclusion and eventually into the days of Great Tribulations.

So is this a number? Is it 144k? The reason why I ask is I don't see anywhere where in scripture where a number is correlated to this group. I see just the opposite actually.  

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3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

So is this a number? Is it 144k? The reason why I ask is I don't see anywhere where in scripture where a number is correlated to this group. I see just the opposite actually.  

It is a number of individuals chosen, yes. This number is mentioned 3 times in Revelations and everywhere of where it is mentioned, is a direct references to those chosen to co-rule within the Messianic Kingdom. When the New Covenant came into effect, you already have those of Pentecost, which included the Disciples of Jesus, and Judas' replacement, Matthias, which totals up to 3,000, and from there more of the firstfruits are chosen up to present day and onward.

And the opposite of such would be?

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32 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

It is a number of individuals chosen, yes. This number is mentioned 3 times in Revelations and everywhere of where it is mentioned, is a direct references to those chosen to co-rule within the Messianic Kingdom. When the New Covenant came into effect, you already have those of Pentecost, which included the Disciples of Jesus, and Judas' replacement, Matthias, which totals up to 3,000, and from there more of the firstfruits are chosen up to present day and onward.

And the opposite of such would be?

Interesting. The opposite is no number. 

In Galatians chapter 4 starting at verse 21, we are told of Abraham's two sets of children. Children of the free woman (Sarah) and children of the bondwoman (Hagar). Specifically telling the reader that these two groups belong to two different camps, one from Jerusalem on Earth and the other from the Jerusalem from above. The Jerusalem from above are those who belong to the freewoman. Verse 27 quotes the OT Isiah 54:1 in which speaks of how the children of the barren woman (Sarah) will outnumber those of the "wife" (Hagar). 
 

So how does this line up with the 144k or does it? It can't. The reason why I say it can't, is because those of earthly Jerusalem (even at the time of the writing) were already greater than 144k. So then these from the Jerusalem from above must be greater than 144k, so those who belong to the Jerusalem from above cannot be one and the same as the 144k mentioned in Revelation. Revelation 21 talks also of this new Jerusalem coming from above and coming down to earth. If you look into all of the places where a new Jerusalem is written about you will not find ANY mention of 144k or any other definite number belonging to it, but rather a number greater than those of Jerusalem from the Earth, which leaves almost an open ended count. 

I don't disagree with your position on the already 3000 chosen, nor the "more firstfruits", I just do not see how this description in Galatians can be dismissed and replaced by the 144k mentioned in Revelation. 

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8 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

this consists of only a select number of folks, say the 144k? 

Are you one of these?

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16 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Are you one of these?

am I a number? lol

 

I'm not Jewish and I am not from the mentioned tribes in Revelation 7:4-8............. I fail

I'm also not a virgin, Revelation 14:4 ...........I fail

I have lied before, Revelation 14:5............. I fail

So, I do not qualify according to the standard God has placed in the Bible. 

I am male though, so I guess I qualify 1/5th of the requirements. ......I pass.....err......well just this part. 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

am I a number? lol

 

I'm not Jewish and I am not from the mentioned tribes in Revelation 7:4-8............. I fail

I'm also not a virgin, Revelation 14:4 ...........I fail

I have lied before, Revelation 14:5............. I fail

So, I do not qualify according to the standard God has placed in the Bible. 

I am male though, so I guess I qualify 1/5th of the requirements. ......I pass.....err......well just this part. 

I'll take that as a "No!"  then?

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On 8/9/2018 at 3:21 PM, Shiwiii said:

Interesting. The opposite is no number. 

As in? It is a number, granted as to the amount of those of the New Holy City seen standing on Zion.

On 8/9/2018 at 3:21 PM, Shiwiii said:

In Galatians chapter 4 starting at verse 21, we are told of Abraham's two sets of children. Children of the free woman (Sarah) and children of the bondwoman (Hagar). Specifically telling the reader that these two groups belong to two different camps, one from Jerusalem on Earth and the other from the Jerusalem from above. The Jerusalem from above are those who belong to the freewoman. Verse 27 quotes the OT Isiah 54:1 in which speaks of how the children of the barren woman (Sarah) will outnumber those of the "wife" (Hagar). 

Its verse 22 for 21 [Paul] speaks in question of of the Law, but all in all it is included in Apostle Paul using the bondwoman and free woman in this symbolic example. For 22, in this verse, the Slave Girl points to Genesis 16:15 which references to Hagar, while Free Woman points to Genesis 21:2, 3, referencing Sarah. Verses 21–31, the title being, Example of Hagar and Sarah, [outlined: Hagar and Sarah: two covenants (21-31) Jerusalem above, our mother, is free (26)] Apostle Paul indicates 2 Covenants, of which he had spoken of symbolically (algorism as some point out). Moreover, Apostle Paul also shows us that Ishmael was the one to taunt and make fun of his half-brother, Isaac, mocking him, as some know it to be regarding heir-ship:


For Ishmael was born naturally by normal means (nature descent) and we already know of his mother, Hagar, was a slave girl/handmaid/servant. As for Isaac, he was born due to God enabling the elderly Sarah to conceive a child in her late age, for she was 90 years of age when he bore Isaac, being obviously overjoyed by his birth, hence why back in Galatians, Sarah spoken of as a free woman, not bonded as a slave compared to Hagar, for Apostle Paul showed the symbolic differences in the birth of Ishmael and Isaac. Now, after some time we see how Ishmael treats his young half-brother on occasion and Sarah herself was the one who witnessed such things of Hagar’s son. For she was in fear of what may come for Isaac, she was concerned and had told her husband, Abraham to send Hagar and her son off, to dismiss them. For at first, Abraham didn't want to do that, but God spoke to him and said to Abraham to listen to Sarah, in addition, he also stated he will take care of Ishmael and Hagar, informing him not to worry, lastly, stating that it is through Isaac , his son/Sarah's son that His Promises will come true - (Genesis 21:1-14). From this information alone, the reader can see what is being seen here should they apply context.


Yes, Jerusalem from above is of the free woman, hence why Paul used the example, and everyone is also aware that Apostle Paul knows that such ones who are of this fold, even heirs of it, are of Abraham’s offspring, that being Abraham to Isaac, to Jacob (Israel), to his sons (of the 12 tribes), including those who have been lost to Paul’s day. For last anyone could recall, we do not see any mention of Ishmael being given the Promise, however, God did not leave him hanging when he took up a part of the Wilderness, The Desert of Paran and was a hunter.


Prophet Isaiah and The Psalmist prophesied of a barren woman whose reproach and shame are to be forgotten, for she will bring forth many sons, all of them taught by God as seen in Psalms 113:9 and Isaiah 54:1, of which you had mention, with the addition of verses 2 to 15. The Apostle Paul applies Prophet Isaiah’s words to the free woman, The Jerusalem Above as seen in Galatians 4:26-31, for such one is bounded by no one.


Also this is not much, minor information, but Ishmael had 12 sons of his own, all of which of whom points to today’s Arab people.

On 8/9/2018 at 3:21 PM, Shiwiii said:

So how does this line up with the 144k or does it? It can't. The reason why I say it can't, is because those of earthly Jerusalem (even at the time of the writing) were already greater than 144k. So then these from the Jerusalem from above must be greater than 144k, so those who belong to the Jerusalem from above cannot be one and the same as the 144k mentioned in Revelation. Revelation 21 talks also of this new Jerusalem coming from above and coming down to earth. If you look into all of the places where a new Jerusalem is written about you will not find ANY mention of 144k or any other definite number belonging to it, but rather a number greater than those of Jerusalem from the Earth, which leaves almost an open ended count. 

On the contrary, this does line up with the 144,000 chosen ones, mainly when you take into account that the New Covenant of which the early Christians were bounded to immediately after Jesus’ death was in effect and what we read regarding Pentecost that took place in the city of which the disciples were told to remain in.

Of what you have said could be agreed with, however, before the New Covenant itself, no person of any kind were of the firstfruits within the Jerusalem Above, that is, if we take into account Paul’s example of what he has written to the Galatians, when we know the choosing had already begun in his day, granted Paul’s determination to sail to Ephesus, of which is spoken of in the Bible. There numbers were indeed great, yes, but as we can see no Covenant came that would replace the Law Covenant entirely, only after Jesus, who is the mediator of the New Covenant, came along, having been subjected to death, purchasing us, and later resurrected, and has ascended. Since we know Jesus Christ as the very first of the firstfruits, eventually those who are of this fold will be among this fold, as said before.

Jesus being the firstborn out of death and having been resurrected, returning to God, and it is said in the bible that those who belong to him during his presence, for these people, chosen were brought up from among the people and are among the firstfruits, both to God and to Jesus. So in regards to Pentecost, those receiving the Promise that comes from the Father, everyone present, men and women, including the disciples, having been given the Holy Spirit are the very ones to become the firstfruits or the heirs as Paul mentioned to the Galatians in chapter 3, and Jesus himself is already said to be the first among them. Afterwards they began to prophesied publicly, as in preach the gospel of the coming Messianic Age and the gospel of the good news regarding the Kingdom.

New Jerusalem (Zion), otherwise known as Heavenly Jerusalem, also referred to as The [New] Holy City or The Bride [of The Lamb]. New Jerusalem is also referred to as The 3rd Temple of which having unknown measurements as seen in the Book of Ezekiel, or in this case, Ezekiel’s vision. Although not a literal woman, the Bible speaks of her and her church, her people, that is, those among the Priesthood who will reside with The Lamb and rule as Priestly Kings and Judges, as well as sing a Song that is unknown to use of which they can only sing. They will also bear the name of God and the Lamb on their foreheads, for as we can see of John’s expression, he had seen them with Jesus, all 144,000 of them standing on Mount Zion.

Yes, this Holy City will come down on earth, although it is spoken of as spiritual and not physical, and will be an established centralized government of which God will put in place, with God’s chosen King, to be Jesus who is accompanied by those of Priesthood who will appear as some say in Spirit form, like that of an angel or that of the Christ himself. Not everyone can reside in this temple despite being under those of the Holy City, for only those chosen for Priesthood will remain while others will at most remain on earth, hence Eternal Life being given to the people who survived/saved and or having been resurrected. Revelations 21, specifically verses 9 to 27 speak of the city’s description in detail, from its very gates to its geometry, in addition to the sacredness and holiness of such in full description.

It is not about looking to see if 144,000 are there or not, it is about application of context and references. That being said, those of Priesthood are in connection with The Bride and we see of her riddled throughout Revelations, and the very context and references are there, for such who is of this Bride consist of men and women since the days of Pentecost up until now and it is unknown as to how many are left, who is chosen and who is not, for the choosing of such ones is of invitation from God himself, and like any invitation, it can be revoked.

One would say that, but you have to consider those 2 groups of the smaller flock and those of the crowd of people who will inherit Eternal Life, all of which subject themselves to one Shepherd, that is, Christ Jesus.

Other than that, I spoke of the Spiritual House extensively before here, of which is also in connection for the Spiritual House’ foundation is the mediator of the New Covenant himself, Lord Jesus Christ, both those of Priesthood and those to have Eternal Life are of this House, and part of the very foundation they are in union with, the Christ.

This is indeed true; those of Earthly Jerusalem, the ones not free and or in bondage, were indeed in great numbers, we also cannot forget that they, among them are the same ones to have rejected the Messiah, but not those of Heavenly Jerusalem, the chosen ones and as well as those to inherit Eternal Life, believed Jesus.

On 8/9/2018 at 3:21 PM, Shiwiii said:

I don't disagree with your position on the already 3000 chosen, nor the "more firstfruits", I just do not see how this description in Galatians can be dismissed and replaced by the 144k mentioned in Revelation. 

Granted Apostle Paul was using symbolism regarding Hagar and Sarah and he knew very well of what was to happen and what took place during Pentecost, granted he was determined make it to Jerusalem on the day of The Festival of Pentecost.

Other than that if you are in agreement with the 3,000 men and women out of the number that is being discussed and those who are with Jesus among the firstfruits, why do you assume otherwise and on your take if those giving the Holy Spirit were not of the destined since the New Covenant is in effect then who is? There is but a selected few of whom John had seen with his own eyes by means of a vision.

Other than that, a lot of people believe in actual chosen ones, however, it has become a thing of a sole race and or people are chosen only after the End Times and such ones preach that what took place in Pentecost was not where it started, however, they are incorrect.

 

Also this is off the charts and a tad bit random, green isn't your color anymore?

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