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indagator

The Latest Work on the Divine Name

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8 hours ago, indagator said:

If you want something substantial to think about, try this:

It's all Greek onomastica to me.

The discussion about Esther should have been done in a different thread so as not to divert from the Shaw topic. There is a relationship to the questions about the Divine Name, of course. Esther was one of the later books to be added to the canon, and it should be looked at as a potential book that's on the cusp of those that might include/withhold the Divine Name.

I once heard that the Qumram texts might have been a depository for old scrolls that needed either safekeeping or even replacing after being overused or worn out. We have evidence from a nearby time period that there was a question about destroying scrolls by fire, and some Jewish thought at the time was that, even if the scrolls were from "apostates" that the divine name should be cut out first. All the books of the Hebrew Bible were partially represented at Qumram except Esther.

So there! Definitive proof that Esther did not contain the Divine Name. [Just kidding.]

What is true, of course, is that the importance and care taken with respect to the Divine Name would mean that any Jewish scribe or Jewish reader would quickly notice its presence and absence. Those looking to decide about canonicity would notice. Should note, too, that the rabbis and scribes of old (pre-Masorete) played several other word and letter games with the text. Not all of them caught on. There are people today who still waste their time counting the letters of the English Bibles to find the middle verse of the NT or OT, or OT+NT, or the middle letter, or the 666th verse. If you read through old rabbinical commentaries, you see it's NOT just numerologists and cabalistic gematriasts, but well-known and well-respected rabbis doing things like this. I just looked up "cabalistic" in Google and this [below] came up next to the top. But even without gematria, you will still see discussions of the meaning of each letter, and attempts to find significance in alternate spellings of names, etc:

Godwin's Cabalistic Encyclopedia: A Complete Guide to Cabalistic Magick

2Q==
David Godwin - 1994 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
the cabalistic method of explaining the Hebrew Scriptures by means of the cryptographic significance of the words. Thus, the first word of Genesis in Hebrew, meaning "in the beginning," has the numerical value 913, which is the same as that ...

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5 hours ago, indagator said:

Is it really so important that God's name be or not be a certain biblical book so that one must go ahunting for its supposed presence in acrostics?

For some, maybe, but as pointed out, the suggestions made by Masoretes are ancient. Others today may want to dispute and search further, but for me it is not a reasonable quest. In fact is has a resemblance to Holy Grailism to my mind.

The Shaw book sounds interesting but I can't access it anywhere so will observe from the sidelines. ?

 

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JWI, such tangents are common and expected in forums like this one. It's all part of the forum experience. Your humor is appreciated. Yes, plenty of people have historically been sidetracked by numbers, gematria, etc.

GA, "The Shaw book sounds interesting but I can't access it anywhere." It's available from the publisher for $81 US:

http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz_print.asp?nr=9332

or cheaper from Amazon, $57.55:

https://www.amazon.com/Earliest-Non-Mystical-Contributions-Biblical-Exegesis/dp/9042929782/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1533572119&sr=8-1&keywords=Shaw+earliest+non-mystical&dpID=41t0h2zHT-L&preST=_SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_&dpSrc=srch

It's money well spent. Happy reading.

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On 8/6/2018 at 12:18 PM, indagator said:

Happy reading.

It's exciting to see so much detail that turns out to be important. I had skimmed some of this before, but missed its relevance, because I had purposely dismissed it as unimportant. To me this info on Ιαω was like those books on the DSS (Qumram texts) that pushed so hard to make them relevant to early Christianity, John the Baptist, etc. I took the lot with a grain of salt. (Yes, pun intended, sorry!) But I realize that there really is a lot to learn even from those books if we can separate the wheat from the chaff.

Also, I was on a trek last year to get some well-respected references on early Christian physical artifacts and had a museum contact give me some good leads. Turns out Shaw's book was among the recommendations, although I was looking into several other points too. While just last week getting a copy of Shaw's book I ended up picking up some other books that I had delayed looking at due to price. But some of these are available only at libraries, and I am trying to work through a few things at once here, as I only visit the library once a week for two hours max.

So I hope you will stick around and be patient with me. I'm only about 25% through Shaw, but I'll definitely keep at it. I'm guessing you've also taken an interest in some of the other issues I'm looking into. So I hope you'll stick around for some other topics too.

I have just read pages 105 - 130 of this paper linked below and found its organized approach valuable. The main point in earlier pages and in the conclusion deal with the skepticism over the traditional/Biblical etymology, but the study leads to some good evidence about various possibilities of pronunciation and spelling. I know that Shaw already covers some of this, too. But I like the organized tables and charts. I found it by reading some more of Didier Fontaine's blog. I had seen areopage links in many places before but hadn't realized it was all him.

https://www.academia.edu/23163338/Making_Sense_of_the_Divine_Name_in_Exodus_From_Etymology_to_Literary_Onomastics

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JWI,

That dissertation has been revised as a book now with improvements made and more refs. to Shaw's work:

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Sense-Divine-Name-Exodus/dp/1575064839

Probably best to stick with the updated edition. I've read it. It's good on certain points but does not have the scope or time frame of Shaw's book. The latter is far more on-topic for Jehovah's servants today.

 

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Here is a challenge, should you decide to accept it:

How is Jehovah's name actually properly pronounced, phonetically, in English ..... with a one word or one sentence answer?

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3 hours ago, indagator said:

Probably best to stick with the updated edition.

I get it, and thanks for the advice. If I were to buy every book I wanted to read, I would have spent tens of thousands, quite literally, and in the most literal sense of the word literal. ?

 

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JTR: that depends on the dialect of English—there are many. Do you care to specify (UK with several sub-categories; Canadian; Aussie; American with several sub-categories; South African, etc.)?

JWI: Your latest words remind me of Eccl. 12:12... Surls' book is nice on his main thesis, that the name's meaning in Exodus, the context in which Jah revealed the meaning of his name, is best understood by pondering how he revealed himself as the book goes along, esp. in the later chapters.

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On 7/16/2018 at 3:45 PM, indagator said:

I thought about posting this on the recent thread "Early Christians, the New Testament and the Divine Name," partly because of a question someone posed there on the earliest evidence for Jewish disuse of the name. However, the issue merits its own thread. There is a book published a few years ago on the Greek form of the tetragrammaton, iota-alpha-omega (Ιαω), that is on-topic, yet that seems to have escaped the attention of non-scholars, and for that matter, many scholars as well. It's dense reading to be sure, but worth the effort. It's written by one of the scholars who has penned reviews of Robert Wilkinson's monograph on the tetragrammaton, Frank Shaw. Its title is The Earliest Non-mystical Jewish Use of the Iao (the last word in Greek script Ιαω), volume 70 of Peeters Press's series Biblical Exegesis and Theology (Leuven 2014). In fact, Shaw's expertise on the name is no doubt why the editors of Oxford's Journal of Theological Studies asked him to review Wilkinson's book.

Shaw's point of departure is the finding among the Qumran documents of a LXX manuscript of Leviticus that has Iao for the Hebrew text's Yhwh. What he attempts to do is gather together all known evidence for this Greek form of the name not used in magic or among Gnostics. His findings are surprising to most people who know something about the issue, whether a layperson or a scholar. It seems that this form of the divine name, vocalized as "Ya-ho," was the active pronunciation of the divine name when Jesus and the apostles lived. There is considerable evidence for this, a point that had been briefly made some years earlier in Sean McDonough's book, YHWH at Patmos: Rev. 1:4 in its Hellenistic and Early Jewish Setting (Mohr Siebeck 1999). Indeed, Shaw corrects some of McDonough's errors. Among other things addressed is the question of when the name began to be disused by Jews in the BCE period, and how use and non-use coexisted for many centuries until some time into the Christian era when disuse totally won out. Shaw offers a strong rebuttal of some Evangelical scholars, notably Albert Pietersma and Martin Rösel, who continue to contend against the mounting evidence that kyrios was originally used by the LXX's translators instead of a real form of the name. He also brings up a point made at this forum by JW Insider that "a problem with the JW position is that the use of a Hebrew YHWH in the middle of a Greek manuscript is an indication that it was not to be pronou[n]ced." What Shaw proposes is that within the Judaism into which Jesus and the apostles were born, there was diversity among the people regarding using the name. The upper class who provide most of our existing documentation of that society, and who are responsible for the LXX manuscripts that have come down to us that have the Hebrew tetragrammaton amid the Greek text, did not want to vocalize the name for multiple reasons, but the masses, among whom Jesus worked and from whom came the apostles and other disciples of him, freely used the name as Yaho in Aramaic. This then shows up as Iao in the written Greek sources.

Shaw also calls out NT textual critics for largely ignoring the findings of, and theory of, George Howard regarding the many textual problems of dozens of NT passages where the Father is referred to. This is also one place where he criticizes McDonough who seems again, like Pietersma and Rösel for the LXX, to have represented Evangelicals who want to downplay these NT textual variants. Shaw modifies Howard's notion that the original NT documents likely did not have mainly Yhwh/יהוה in them, but instances of Iao/Ιαω instead. Another noteworthy thing he does is date just when this Greek form of the name began to appear in mystical sources. Scholarship had never before done this, and there have been very sloppy and erroneous assumptions made regarding this matter, including again McDonough. As it turns out, the evidence points to the use of Iao/Ιαω among magicians and mystics dating to the beginning of the second century CE. Shaw even proposes that these types picked up on this form of the name due to the earliest Christians using it in their preaching work. Later Christians then had reason to remove the name from their documents (LXX and NT) because the "pernicious heretics" and magicians were using it with more and more frequency.

There are many other interesting points in the book, but this post has already gotten longer than I'd planned on. For those who have the stamina to work through it, the book is well worth what you will learn from it.

 

 

Here is an interesting theory:

Here is a museum quality reproduction of the Septuagint fragment of  "4Q120 or  pap4QLXXLevb   "of Leviticus 4:27 frame included.

 
 
    There is evidence that this fragment may have been written by a CHRISTIAN and not by Jews. Although most scholars say that this fragment was written by a Jew because it is from Leviticus and from the Qumran caves. But did only Jews use the Qumran caves? {When the Christians left Jerusalem in 66 C.E. they traveled right past the Qumran cave where this scroll came from "Cave 4" on there way to the mountains of Pella north along the Jordan River}!!! The Christians also made copies of the Hebrew Scriptures which they would have translated into Greek the main language of the First Century. The main reason why this was probably written by a Christian is because the Divine Name in this fragment "IAW" {Iao} is a PRONOUNCEABLE rendering of the Tetragrammaton. A Jew following the custom at the time of not pronouncing the Divine Name would never have written a PRONOUNCEABLE RENDERING as that would go against their traditions. However Christians did not follow Jewish traditions as Jesus denounced such very strongly. Jews who wrote the earliest pre-Christian LXX wrote the Tetragrammaton in HEBREW within a GREEK TEXT in most cases making it stand out in order not to pronounce it. However this manuscript 4Q120 is in ALL Greek including the rendering of the Tetragrammaton!!! Thus Origen {184 - 253 C.E.} an early Church Father testifies that "When Iao is laid in the text it is pronounced as by Greeks NOT HEBREWS". Also John Chrysostom {349 - 407 C.E.} stated :"Regarding IAO - a name of God Hebrews left UNTRANSLATED". So a Hebrew or Jew would not have written "IAO" for God's Name as that was a Greek TRANSLATION OF YHWH. The following early CHRISTIAN Fathers also made reference to "IAO as being in the Scriptures during their time {130 to 538 C.E.} Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, Eusebius, John Chrysostom, Jerome, Theodoret and Severus. 
   The date for this fragment 4Q120 or pap4QLXXLevb    is from the late 1st Century BCE - early 1st Century C.E. and thus known by Jesus and the First Century Bible writers! Therefore one of Jesus Apostles may have written this fragment early in the Christian Congregations existence as they were commissioned to preach to ALL the earth in the Great Commission then they would naturally have translated the Hebrew Scriptures into GREEK as well as the writings of the New Testament. {See also Vat 2125 Codex Marchalianus {6th Century C.E.} which has a greek tetragrammaton in the margins of a CHRISTIAN manuscript as well as IAO and the Nomina Sacra all together for YHWH!!! {Which we offer a page facsimile here on ebay as well}. That means that the First Century New Testament Bible writers may have Translated the Divine Name as "IAO" {Which is JEHOVAH in English} in the Bible since the early Church Fathers  stated that ""IAO" comes from the SCRIPTURES" !!! And many Christian writings after the First Century had "IAO" as a Greek transliteration for YHWH. Gnostic Christians began to misuse God's Name in magical practices in later Centuries however the evidence clearly shows that "IAO" was God's name in Greek when the New Testament was originally written!
 
    So this fragment 4Q120 may have been written by a Christian translator not governed by Jewish traditions who wanted to witness to gentiles or hellenized Jews {Who only understood Greek} in the First Century sometime after 30 C.E.  The evidence indicates from manuscripts and early Church Fathers is that New Testament Bible writers writing in Greek Scripture used the Divine Name in Greek as "IAO" in the New Testament for YHWH !!! {Josephus mentioned that God's Name was four VOWELS rather than consonants so he may have been referring to the Greek transliteration since is was all vowels IAO which became in Latin "Iehova" then in English as JehOvAh = JAH "I" became "J" in English - examples: Jehovah, Jesus, Jehoshophat, Jehoram and many more}.
 
          Reasons that this manuscript may have been written by a Christian scribe:
 
1. Christians were not governed by Jewish traditions of not pronouncing the Tetragrammaton
2. Christians made many translations to spread the Bible message over "all" in earth in every language, especially Greek in the First Century
3. Christians were well renowned for copying expertise and 4Q120 was an exemplar as one of the best and was uncorrupted.
4. Christians used the Tetragrammaton in various forms especially "IAW" as noted by Origen and other early Church Fathers
5. Many Qumran Scrolls came from outside the community and stored there.
6. Some Greek speaking Jewish Christians may have deposited scrolls there such as when they left Jerusalem in 66 C.E. they passed right next to Cave 4 and 7 where 4Q120 was in cave 4 and Christians used papyrus extensively as well. {See P. Comfort}.
7. For centuries Christians incessantly read and reproduced Greek, Hebrew and Latin forms of the Tetragrammaton in Hexapla and Biblical onomastica {Lexicons with IAO} and Patristic literature. 
8. Compelling evidence that some Greek Bible copies like the ones read by Christians such as Ireaneus, Origen, Eusebius, Tertullian, Jerome and others were ALL using "IAW" for the Tetragrammaton !!! {See writings by Pavlos D. Vasileiadis from Thessalonika University Greece}. Thus Greek Translations of the New Testament may have contained the Greek Tetragrammaton transliteration "IAW" just as 4Q120 of Leviticus also does.
 
 Thus the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures in restoring the Divine Name to the Bible have much evidence that the Tetragrammaton was in the First Century original autographs of the New Testament Scriptures weather they wrote it in Hebrew or Greek. And both the Greek transliteration of IAO and the Hebrew YHWH was well known to those in the First Century!!!
 
{We have also acquired much of the other evidence from the early Church Fathers that used "IAO" in their writings thus proving that the early Christians did indeed use the Tetragrammaton in their writings as well as testimony from then that the original autographs of the New Testament contained the Tetragrammaton. We sell all of these here on ebay - look up each Church Father by name or "IAO" in search.}
 
 
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35 minutes ago, bruceq said:
          Reasons that this manuscript may have been written by a Christian scribe:
 

Forgive an off-topic comment, if you will. I have long wanted to thank you, but did not know that you still hung around.

I finished the book I was working on, 'Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah's Witnesses Write Russia,' and you were the biggest help, since you continually posted updates of persecutions there. I am grateful to you for that.

I also took it to heart when you chastised me for 'liking' the contents of apostates, which I had never done much, but resolved to do not at all henceforth. That is not to say that I have not exchanged barbs with the 'house apostate' who resembles, after a time, a big cuddly snarling lovable rabid old teddy bear. And even a Jack someone or other, whe has launched as many as ten petulant complaints in a single day. But 'guest apostates', like a certain one who used to sign off 'he he he )))))' until he discontinued it, apparantly realizing it made him look like a moron, I do not respond to (usually).

It is well that you stay out of it. You have chosen the high road. I recall you saying that you had recently been appointed MS and married not too long ago, and that you wanted to focus on those real priorities. I hope things are going well with you.

  • Thanks 1

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10 hours ago, bruceq said:

There is evidence that this fragment may have been written by a CHRISTIAN and not by Jews.

I have just completed a quick reading the book by Frank Shaw recommended by @indagator. I have also done the same for another book recommended to me late last year, "The Earliest Christian Artifacts" by Larry Hurtado. I hope you get a chance to read both books yourself if you have not already.

From what I can see, there is no real evidence that makes this particular fragment more likely to have come from a Christian. It's not just the more likely date that would place the document about 100 years prior to the first known Christian writings, it's also the fact that there is plenty of additional evidence that Greek-speaking Jews used this pronounceable form of the name for hundreds of years prior to Christianity. They had clearly been using it in writing and also pronouncing it too. Before the Greek Scriptures were written, there is evidence that some Jews had already stopped pronouncing the name, but evidence shows that this could not have been true of all Jews all at the same time, everywhere. Perhaps that practice among the Jews had reached a pervasive saturation point some time before Origen and others remarked upon that practice.

BTW, as TTH has also said, glad to see you stopping by.

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I'm sure that "Indagator" has much more background to provide a better answer, but we all learn from questioning, so I will try to take up the question behind the theory: "Could 4Q120 have been written by a Christian?"

First, it's a very interesting idea. To avoid a lot of separate quotes, I'll try to just re-quote a larger section and intersperse comments. These are just my opinions of course, but I'll highlight in orange-yellow if I think the evidence for the statement or implication of the question is not that good, and red if I think the evidence clearly goes against the particular idea presented, and green where the idea appears correct. My comments will be bracketed and in black.

There is evidence that this fragment may have been written by a CHRISTIAN and not by Jews. [Haven't yet come across any such evidence.] Although most scholars say that this fragment was written by a Jew because it is from Leviticus and from the Qumran caves. [However, scholars identify it as Jewish not just because it comes from the Qumram caves but because it does not present any of the primary unique indicators of Christian documents from the first century. (see Hurtado, for example)] But did only Jews use the Qumran caves? [All the evidence indicates, Yes, only Jews. There have been several theories about the purpose of the caves and who used them. All of them point to one or more Jewish groups, and there is no evidence of any Christian group who might have used them.] {When the Christians left Jerusalem in 66 C.E. they traveled right past the Qumran cave where this scroll came from "Cave 4" on there way to the mountains of Pella north along the Jordan River}!!! [Looking at a map of Jerusalem to Pella (see attached picture below) Cave 4 would be many miles out of the way. Jesus indicated that the Christians in Jerusalem should take the quickest route.] The Christians also made copies of the Hebrew Scriptures which they would have translated into Greek the main language of the First Century. [The evidence so far, shows that Christians did not make copies of the Hebrew Scriptures that they translated into Greek. Instead, they appear to have used the LXX which was an already existing translation. There is actually no evidence that they made any copies or translations in the first century, but this does not mean it was not done.] The main reason why this was probably written by a Christian is because the Divine Name in this fragment "IAW" {Iao} is a PRONOUNCEABLE rendering of the Tetragrammaton. [Yes, IAO is a pronounceable rendering of the Divine Name as it had been pronounced by certain groups of Jews for 100's of years. However, I believe that there is no evidence yet that indicates that any Christian in the first century C.E., or even the second century C.E., pronounced or wrote the name this way. This does not mean that they did not, and in fact, I believe that you are right that many Christians did -- but only because especially the Aramaic-speaking Christians would have been following a Jewish custom for which there is a lot of evidence.] A Jew following the custom at the time of not pronouncing the Divine Name would never have written a PRONOUNCEABLE RENDERING as that would go against their traditions. [Except that we already know from the history of the term IAO, that Jews had been using this pronounceable form of the name for hundreds of years. There is evidence that these traditions against pronouncing it were not yet consistent until after the first century C.E.] However Christians did not follow Jewish traditions as Jesus denounced such very strongly. [This statement could be right or wrong, depending on which traditions are being referred to. If we recognize that many Jews were still following the Jewish tradition of pronouncing the name, then I'm sure Jesus would not have condemned that good tradition. Jesus even said of the scribes and Pharisees in Mt 23:3: "Practice and obey whatever they tell you to do."] Jews who wrote the earliest pre-Christian LXX wrote the Tetragrammaton in HEBREW within a GREEK TEXT in most cases making it stand out in order not to pronounce it. [The earliest pre-Christian LXX translations may have initially used IAO. Based on the common use of IAO at the time it is reasonable to conclude that all original LXX translations used "IAO." There is no conclusive evidence that they did not, and no conclusive evidence that they did. But there is evidence that it was earlier than the first century C.E. when IAO was used, and of course any of the other 3 major known LXX variations for the Divine Name. It's possible that some of the LXX translators may have already used "kyrios" in their earliest copies. This means that some would have already been influenced by a tradition not to pronounce the name (in 250 BCE), whether they had used YHWH-square, YHWH-paleo, kyrios, or some other replacement for the Divine Name.]

I'll stop here for now.   

200px-Thedecapolis.png

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Only time for a brief reply—sorry. As JWI brings out, certain people have from time to time tried to tie manuscript finds from Qumran to Christianity. All such things have come to naught, and rightly so. A suggestion, bruceq: before forming opinions on a matter, gain the knowledge necessary to do so. In this case, one of the essential points is the testimony of the Greek historian Diodorus of Sicily who states that Jews were using Ιαω as the active pronunciation of their God around 50 BC/BCE. Obviously Christianity did not yet exist then. Therefore, the Qumran manuscript would be support for Diodorus' statement. Yet again, all this is in Shaw's book.

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{When the Christians left Jerusalem in 66 C.E. they traveled right past the Qumran cave where this scroll came from "Cave 4" on there way to the mountains of Pella north along the Jordan River}!!! [Looking at a map of Jerusalem to Pella (see attached picture below) Cave 4 would be many miles out of the way. Jesus indicated that the Christians in Jerusalem should take the quickest route.] 

The reason I came up with this theory of the path was according to terrain maps they would not have taken the "as a bird flies" route because of terrain but would have taken the already existing roads of which the main one went directly east from Jerusalem to the northern tip of the Dead Sea where cave 4 is located then would have traveled up the Jordan river to Pella. People other than Jews used the caves over the Centuries for shelter - why coudn't the Christians have done so as well? Not that any of this really matters but I was just offering a possibility that this MSS may have been written by Christians since the early Church Fathers mentioned IAO as coming from the "Scriptures" and many other indications as presented above such as by Chrysostom and Origen. I realize none in academic circles of Christendom agrees but that does not mean they are correct just because they are a majority view. {As for dates used by scholars obviously nothing is exact and dates can be off by a couple centuries certainly 50 BC to 50 CE is within possiblity for the margin of error}.

However much evidence for a Christian origin can be found here https://www.academia.edu/30967321/_The_god_Iao_and_his_connection_with_the_Biblical_God_with_special_emphasis_on_the_manuscript_4QpapLXXLevb_Ο_θεός_Ιαώ_και_η_σχέση_του_με_τον_Βιβλικό_Θεό_με_ιδιαίτερη_εστίαση_στο_χειρόγραφ

 

 

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4 hours ago, indagator said:

A suggestion, bruceq: before forming opinions on a matter, gain the knowledge necessary to do so.

Sorry i am not a college professor or anything like that. I just have an interest in the subject and have about 250 books dealing with it and thought i would give my 2 cents as i do enjoy discussing this subject. I have read and studied Shaws book about a year ago and i was just giving a theory as an interesting possibility for discussion.

As for more proof of 4Q120 possibly being of Christian origin please read pgs. 45 - 51 of the following ;

"The use of a form of the Tetragrammaton within the 4Q120 manuscript was admittedly the major reason for classi-fying it as of Jewish origin. In the light of the available in-formation today (such as lowering the date of the common use of the Tetragrammaton and the evidenced longstanding use of Ιαω among Christians], might a Jewish Christian ori-gin of the manuscript, penned sometime during the first cen-tury CE be considered possible? Some positive factors for such a hypothesis are the following"

 

 https://www.academia.edu/30967321/_The_god_Iao_and_his_connection_with_the_Biblical_God_with_special_emphasis_on_the_manuscript_4QpapLXXLevb_Ο_θεός_Ιαώ_και_η_σχέση_του_με_τον_Βιβλικό_Θεό_με_ιδιαίτερη_εστίαση_στο_χειρόγραφ

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      YAHWEH  - The  only  TRUE  GOD !  PROOF - God's Name,  YAH  Is  Written  On  Your  Face  &  Throughout  Creation !    ( Rev. 14:1  -  Rev. 22:4 )
       YAHWEH IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD:  Matthew 28:19 (KJV) Go ye therefore, and TEACH  *ALL NATIONS*,  baptizing them in THE NAME OF THE FATHER,  and of  THE SON,  and of the  Holy Spirit !
      Isaiah 45 5,  I am YAHWEH, and  THERE IS NONE ELSE,  there is NO GOD BESIDES ME:  I girded thee,  though thou hast not  known me:  6 That they may know from the rising of the sun,  and from the west,  that  THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME.  I am YAHWEH,  YHWH, JEHOVAH,  and there is  NONE  ELSE...
                           ❤ ❤ ❤ .•*¨`*•..¸♥☼♥¸.•*¨`*•. ❤ ❤ ❤
    • By Nicole
      Divine Name-END.pdf
    • By Micah Ong
      Thanks for helping me research more.
      YHWH/YHVH/IHVH/JHVH – ORIGIN
      (V = U), (UV = W), (I = J), (J SUBSTITUTE for Y), the name YHWH/JHVH was injected into the text of the Old Testament by the Pharisees and others who practiced Babylonian Satanism (the precursor to Cabalism and Talmudism). For those who don’t believe the Talmud is Satanic it proclaims that Christ is in Hell boiling in excrement and semen.
      An agreement was forged between the Jewish Masoretes and the Catholic Church c. 1000 A.D. to change the name of AHAYAH in the Hebrew Old Testament to the pagan name Yahweh/Jehovah via the Tetragrammatons’.
      This explains Rosenthal’s saying, “We are amazed by the Christians’ stupidity in receiving our teachings and propagating them as their own”.
      In Henry Ford’s words. “The Christian cannot read his Bible except through Jewish spectacles, and, therefore, reads it wrong”.
      The demonic disdain for humanity exhibited by the Luciferian Jew, Harold Rosenthal, typifies the end result of a lethal amalgamation: Jewish religious ritual combined with the worship of knowledge and self. The Jews as a people, by rejecting God and/or accepting Jehovah, have been given over “to a reprobate mind…Being filled with all unrighteousness…” (Romans 1:28-31).
      Of course, Mr. Rosenthal was a member of an elite, openly satanic minority among the Jewish people. Everyday Jews do not know that the god of their faith is in fact Satan hiding behind a mystical name. It is of no consequence to Satan whether he is worshipped deliberately or through subtle lies and deceptions. (Genesis 3).
      The wise Solomon ask, “what is [God’s] name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?” (Proverbs 30:4). God’s name is AHAYAH (sometimes transliterated Ehyeh) meaning I AM. This is the name given to Moses along with the law. “And God sad unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you…this is my memorial unto all generations.” (Exodus 3:14-15). “I AM the Lord thy God…thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exodus 32:4-5).
      Originally these four Consonants in(YHWH)represented the four members of the Heavenly Family:
      Y – represented EL the Father
      H – represented Asherah the Mother
      W – represented He the Son
      H – represented the Daughter Anath
      The Jewish name for god is represented by the Tetragrammatons’ (YHWH/YHVH) can be pronounced Yahweh or Jehovah. The significance of God’s name is repeated emphasized throughout the scriptures.
      “Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.”
      When dissected in the Hebrew, the true definition of Jehovah (Yah-Hovah) is revealed. “Yah” (#H3050) means “god”. “Hovah” (#H1942) translates to “eagerly coveting, falling, desire, ruin, calamity, iniquity, mischief, naughtiness, noisome, perverse, very wickedness.”
      Jehovah is synonymous with Baal:
      “Baal (#H1180) from ba’al with pron. Suff.; my master; Baali, a symbolical name for Jehovah — Baali.”
      The Jewish encyclopedia (“Adonai and Ba’al”) reveals: “The name Ba’al, apparently an equivalent for Yhwh.”
      Since the days of Jeremiah, the Jews have forgotten their god’s name and replaced it with the title “Baal” or “YHWH/YHVH”: The lying prophets “Which think to cause my people to forget my [God’s] name…as their father have forgotten my name for Baal.” (Jeremiah 23:27).
      YHWH/YHVH and Ba’al both represent the god of sexual perversion and wickedness, Satan.
      However, Jews claim that this name (YHWH/YHVH) is not to be spoken aloud, despite God’s command to declare His name throughout the earth (Exodus 9:16). Why ignore this commandment?
      By reverencing their name of God (YHWH/YHVH) by not speaking it, Jews create an air of mystery and holiness around the name while enhancing the curiosity surrounding its pronunciations and power.
      When curious Jews and non-Jews alike see the “sacred” Tetragrammatons’ being used in occult practice, they are intrigued by the prospective that these sorcerers have harnessed the mystical powers of the name. Wicca, Satanism, Tarot, occult Catholicism, Masonry and Cabalism use their knowledge of the “scared” name of god” as bait to recruit cult members. If the name were not hidden, these cults would lack a critical tool in their recruitment processes.
    • By JW Insider
      How good is the evidence that the Christian Scriptures contained YHWH or some variation of that Divine Name?
      There are probably some non-JWs who believe that there is absolutely no reason at all to even entertain the possibility, and there are probably some JWs who believe manuscripts have already been found with YHWH in the NT.  For most of us, the real answer lies somewhere in between. There is a lot of good research on the issue, and this research might be interesting to some of us, whether or not it is compelling enough for anyone to change their mind.
      A previous discussion on the topic became very long and veered off into other topics, too. Hopefully, this attempt will not result in multiple topics or judgmental attitudes about people, and we can focus on the validity of the research itself.
      If anyone wishes to participate, they should feel free to copy anything they wrote in a previous thread. A topic about YHWH in the NT will likely also include topics about the pronunciation of YHWH, YHWH in the OT (LXX, Masoretic, DSS, and other manuscripts), the earliest NT and OT meanings of "name," historical linguistic trends, Greek abbreviations, NT translations, usage by early "Ante-Nicene Fathers," and the various alternatives to YHWH, and comments made by anyone else that might seem partly relevant or interesting (Philo, Josephus, Ebionites, Talmud, Gnostics, etc.). It's still a big topic.
      The arguments that many find relevant are found in Gerard Gertoux, which can be seen here: http://areopage.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Gertoux_UseNameEarlyChristians.pdf
      He references G. Howard, of course, which might even be a better place to start. (HOWARD, Biblical Archaeology Review Vol IV, No. 1). His ideas can be found online here: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3265328?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
       
    • By ARchiv@L
      hello everyone.
      perhaps you had noticed that screen on the january broadcasting program.

       
      I searched the internet to find that papyrus, so I like to share the information with all of you.
       

      can anyone tell us, where is that from the bible ?
      thank you.

      (and for those who like the greek letters),
      can you see those 3 words ?
      ΘΕΟΣ
      ΔΑΜΑΣΚΟΥ
      ΙΣΡΑΗΛ

       
       
      [my greetings to all]
    • By Gone Away
      Interesting SH Bookshop find. I'm not sure when published.


    • By io.porog
      Note: These posts are for the purpose of indexing JW Broadcasting Program Parts for easy access and look up on this site, as JW Broadcasting does not yet have a search function. Most parts have been linked directly to the video for that part, for easy access. You may like to use these links for personal or family study. Enjoy!

      June 2015

      Presenter: Bro. Geofrey Jackson, GB

      Theme Talk: “The Divine Name of Our Heavenly Father” Length 15:28 mins

      Bible Teachings: How Can We Be Sure the Bible is True? Length 4:24 mins

      Truth Transforms Lives: “Johnny and Gideon – Once Enemies, Now Brothers” Length 8:14 mins

      Preaching Methods: Prison Witnessing Reaches Hearts Length 7:25 mins

      Blessings of Sacred Service: Bro. Jonathon Manley “I Really Enjoy My Assignment” Length 1:45 mins

      Enduring Trials: Bro. Nikolay Negrich “Jehovah Never Abandons His Servants” Length 8:19 mins

      Branch Report: Bro. Noumair - Tanzania, Kenya and Malawi Length 11:44 mins

      Original Song: “Give You My All” Length 2:30 mins

      Closing Video: Jerusalem and Tel Aviv Hebrew Congregations, Israel

      Full Length 1:05:37 mins

      *Full length time includes intermediary comments

    • By The Librarian
      Examining the rules of pronunciation and grammar as it applies to the name יהוה.

      Addendum #1: Another passage that is frequently used in the discussion of the name YHWH is "call upon his name" as can be seen in Psalm 105:1. The Hebrew word translated as "call" is קרא (QRA), which can mean "call," but is the same word meaning "meet." And as discussed in the video, the word "name" can mean "character," so the phrase "call upon his name," can also mean "meet with his character." Also note that the phrase following this in Psalm 105:1 is "make known his deeds among the people." This is a parallel (a common form of Hebrew poetry found throughout Psalms) with "meet with his character," much more so than "call upon his name."

      Addendum #2: DasWORTanDICH called me on my claim that the character of YHWH can be summed up with the word "unity" (Good job DasWORTanDICH) In Zech 14:9, the end of the verse literally reads "and his name/character is one." The Hebrew for "one" more literally means "unit" or "unity." Throughout the Bible we see God working in unity with himself, even when his actions are in opposition to each other. For instance, in Genesis 1 we see God "creating," but in Genesis 6 we see God "destroying." Two opposites, but working together in unity to bring about order. In the desert God is seen as a cloud by day (bringing coolness and shade), but at night a cloud by fire (bringing heat and light). These two manifestations are in opposition to each other, but work together to protect the people.
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