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IS IT PROPER FOR A WOMAN TO SPEAK, TEACH AND PROPHESY?

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16 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I wonder if in Mexico, when a woman temporarily substitutes for a man in the Congregation, if she has to wear a sombrero?

Not quite. They will where a head covering that appears to be somewhat looking as though it is a Hijab. As long as the head is cover, which is in respects to God's Law and biblical standards, it should be A-OK, at least these young girls and women have respect compared to the mainstream, new age and charismatic movements in the US.

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Mexico is rather dangerous also if you do not know where you are and or going, for any man who the Cartel sees as a threat will be dealt with. The Cartel show no purpose to a popular Mexican kid on YouTube who had quite the colorful words for them, only for the next day, this kid, is no more and was done away with by the group he insulted, this can be found here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1595444/Mexican-Youtube-star-killed-insulting-drug-lord.html 

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You don't pull on Superman's cape,

You don't spit into the wind.

You don't pull the mask off the Ol' Lone Ranger, and

You don't publicly insult known thugs, mobsters etc.

The Kid could probably win 2017's  Darwin Award, if not already awarded.

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18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Also you still have not mention Mary in depth,

My thoughts on this matter concur with the article, and I cannot see pursuing the point with you any further, SP. 

I will, though, touch on Mary.

When keeping in mind this scripture first proclaimed by Joel…

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy
.”  Acts 2:17,18

...read Mary’s prayer:

 “My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
48 
For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
49 
For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name.
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him
From generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with His arm;
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
And exalted the lowly.
53 He has filled the hungry with good things,
And the rich He has sent away empty.
54 He has helped His servant Israel,
In remembrance of His mercy,
55 
As
He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.”  Luke 1:46-55

Can you not see that she spoke these words as the result of the pouring out of Holy Spirit upon her?

It is the same with Zacharias:

Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:

68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 
As
He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

76 “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.”  Luke 1:67-79
 

 

Oh, one other thing. 

Eph 5:23 -   “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.”

"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."  KJV

This is a comparison of “heads”.  Christ is head of the church.  The church is the anointed Body.  (Matt 16:18)

“And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.”  Col 1:18

He is the only Head of all within the Body, that is comprised of both male and female.  He is the spiritual “husband” of the Body/Bride.  The comparison of this husband/bride arrangement is made to a physical marriage of a man and a woman. 

“For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.”  2 Cor 11:2

This doesn’t give room for any man to acts as go between for Christ concerning anointed woman. Concerning ALL women.   Though, you believe so, just as the governing body believes so.  Yet, they also believe they are head over every anointed one, male or female, since they must fully obey the wicked slave, and their own “body” of elders that they “govern” over,  built outside of God’s intentions.  Matt 24:48-51

We have only one saviour, Christ. We are only to be Christ's servant, not man's.   For anyone to stand between Christ and another, and expect obedience to their "decrees", they take on the role of saviour, and the role of judge.   The governing body has successfully accomplished this.

"Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand."  Rom 14:4

 

 

 

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Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

This same Paul here said very advanced and almost innovative thought. He abolishes all the social divisions that are characteristic of the society in which they lives. I primarily think of Jewish society and religion as an indivisible part of the Jew people. Eliminates the difference on the basis of nationality. Eliminates the difference of status on a social scale caused by position or origin in society. Eliminates differences caused by belonging to sex, gender. (It not surprised if some talking how First Christians was the Religious Communist with the ideas of a classless, egalitarian society that shared their land and their other property and similar.)

Why these 3 stumbling stone are connected and put "in one bag" with clear  answer on problems that this 3 listed items causing till today?  

When he talking about "you are all one in Christ", he undoubtedly talking about New Religious System of that NEW SOCIETY that try to forming New Congregation. Not New "Jew Congregation". Of course they are not been able to escape all obstacles and traps which drag them into the old system of worship of God and the religious hierarchy that existed in Jewish religion for so many centuries. They were not so strong to cut all ties with old things. Because "new light" that shined on them, for short time, was to much new for them to be that something what would be possible to incorporate into something new formed. And that they themselves did not know how this newly-found faith should actually look like in structure, in the relationship between the members, between the sexes.

Perhaps Paul was highly "Inspired" while he dare to talking about such taboo theme - male and female are equal to the such point, to such level,  that sex/gender even not existing in Congregation of God, not existing as question, as principle, as stumbling stone, as difference, as controversy.

So they mixed old thoughts with new thoughts. Paul is one example. We find his commands to congregation about "silenced woman" and on other hand with full confidence he talking how "we are all one an equal".   :))

Here is context of verse i mentioned in the beginning, to see "whole picture" how he ( and I/me, hehehe) came to unity of sexes :)) because we are all: 

Children of God

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Does this mean that Bill can date, if Hillary goes to prison?

yes, if he change his sex/gender  :)))))

maybe i am not good in try to switch myself to US humor, but you know...that is me :))

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5 hours ago, Witness said:

My thoughts on this matter concur with the article, and I cannot see pursuing the point with you any further, SP. 

It is relevant to the topic because one has to realize that a woman can be a minister in the preaching and teaching of the gospel, a woman can be a teacher, a woman can put into application the gifts of which has been given and a list of other things, but it is known and cannot be changed of the church's hierarchy, it's structure, for of God we have the Christ and the Christ is the head of the Church. The head of the Woman is the Man.

 

  • The Head of the Christ is God
  • The head of the Church is the Christ
  • The head of the Man is the Christ
  • The head of the woman is the Man

A man is of God's glory and a woman is of Man's glory, for man comes from God and a woman comes from man, and as so the Scriptures go.

Stuff like this is important because should you be in a position to explain this stuff you have to be very accurate, a small misstep will drive one to dwell on what is not spoken of in the Bible or not making something known in full will cause confusion and contradiction.

Before you listed Mary as a Prophetess, if you are bringing forth information of her being a maidservant/slave girl, why refer to her as a Prophetess when the distinction between the two are not the same? For this is why the Strong's exist, this is why we have manuscripts.

A Prophetess is a woman and or women who is able to prophesies or carries on action by means of their work and what they say for they are a prophetess (male counterparts simply called Prophet). A Prophetess speaks of prophecy, prophesying  by means of inspiration, speaking of and or telling forth of messages from God for like angels, a Prophetess, as well as Prophets, are under Shaliah Principle (Also refereed to as Angelic Agency), they reveal the comes from God, of what his purpose and will entails. They are capable of predicting events that is to come. Even as there were both true and false prophets, so some prophetesses were used by Jehovah and were moved by his spirit while others were false prophetesses, disapproved by Him.

In Mary's case,


Mary was a handmaiden, which is also a maidservant and or slave/slave girl, she was not and is not a Prophetess, never was spoken to be one or called one as is the others, the same goes for any person who makes claim to Prophets when it has never been addressed, for even in Greek there is a distinction between these two and the very words itself. For Mary, the human mother of Jesus is referred also as the maidservant or handmaid of the Lord or servant of the Lord or slave girl, etc., such as which are titles of honour for she is the mother of Jesus, the mother of the Prophet who have been prophesied to come and that Prophet being the Son of God himself. In the Gospel of Luke it describes and mentions Mary as the maidservant/handmaid/slave girl when she gives her consent to the message of the Angel of whom God sent, Gabriel (Angel of YHWH) as seen in Luke 1:38, and when she proclaims how great the Lord is and because of the great things he has worked in her, as seen in Luke 1:49.

We also know (well I am sure everyone here knows) that after the prophecies of Simeon and the Prophetess Anna seen in Luke 2:25-38  and it being concluded, Joseph and Mary took young Jesus and returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth, seen in Luke 2:39. For if Mary was indeed a Prophetess, the aid from these two would not have been needed to begin with while she and her husband, Joseph, was with baby Jesus at the Temple of God.

Moreover, it is no surprise to anyone of why God had chosen Mary and Mary's actual history, as is the history of those of her household - her relatives. But nowhere in the scriptures it is seen hat Mary is spoken of as a Prophetess, for any talk about a Prophetess is explicit and attempting to mix a handmaid/maidservant/slave with a Prophetess will not do you any good, as for your verses, it would have been wise to check out the references also to even show you of what has been stated.

As for Mary, she had always been God fearing, never in scripture we see her predict upcoming events, what she knows is what her people knows and what they lived by, this being of God's Laws and what God had said, for Mary was the type of young person to give praise to God constantly for she not only knows who the God of Israel is, but she gives praise every on occasion. She had knew the Law and she applied this and she taught the Law to her young, which was the way it was for the people.

It would have been fairly easy and understandable if the Bible says she was a Prophetess and or makes claim to such, granted of how that role is for some women and the very fact it is mention a few times in the Greek New Testament, perhaps 2-3 times, but nowhere we see any occurrences of the Prophetess title in connection with Mary, so we should not be adding to the word (Deuteronomy 4:2).
 

Know the difference, I recommend Bible Hub (I've only pulled up the Greek, for there is no need for the Hebrew at this moment):

5 hours ago, Witness said:

I will, though, touch on Mary.

When keeping in mind this scripture first proclaimed by Joel…

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy
.”  Acts 2:17,18

First off, bear in mind the references for verse 17 (Joel 2:28) and references for verse 18 (1 Corinthians 12:8, 10).

We must also bear in mind that Pentecost was a day that the helper came to the people after Jesus had ascended, this helper being the Holy Spirit that having been outpoured to the early Christians. The Bible shows us that Pentecost is given in the Acts 2 as well as including Peter's Sermon at Pentecost (14-41) that puts major importance to The Resurrection and Exaltation. In his sermon, Peter quotes Joel 2:28-32, as well as Psalms 16 to indicate that first Pentecost marks the start of an age, The Messianic Age, this age being a time where there will be a period of time when the Messiah will reign as King and bring peace to all, those among his co-ruling fold, persons destined for Priesthood and those who benefit from Eternal Life, for these persons are the stones, as for the wicked and evil, they will be nowhere to be found nor will hinder any man, woman or child, for all there will be is peace and tranquility among the people and all that is good - all of which is of God's purpose and will for mankind and will soon be accomplished by means of his chosen one.

And what do we find out about those among Pentecost and what they did afterwards? The references for verse 18 speaks for itself. We also know that these persons went out of their way to teach, to make disciples of people and to baptize them and all of these persons, given the  Holy Spirit did the works, and spoke by means of the Spirit, wisdom, and these persons speak of the Messianic Age. Furthermore, these people, who of the New Covenant, as discussed with you before, are part of the Spiritual House themselves, as said, they are the stones of that house.

This includes, the disciples, all men and women in attendance, and anyone in connection with the Christ and listened, even Mary.

We do not see any indication of Mary being called a Prophetess, a maidservant yes, but not a Prophet of any kind, granted when one is capable of understanding the difference.

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Eph 5:23 -   “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.”

"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."  KJV

This is already known. What is not really mention by some is that God's glory is the man, and Man's glory is the woman. For a man came from God and man exist because of God, for a woman came from man and a woman exist because of a man (1 Corinthians 11:2-16).

6 hours ago, Witness said:

This is a comparison of “heads”.  Christ is head of the church.  The church is the anointed Body.  (Matt 16:18)

Indeed, the Spiritual House, those who make up the House are the Living Stones. For this we had talked about before, despite the corrections being made in your response.

But was missed was what Jesus entrusted to the Church, something of which a majority of the mainstream Christians are against and or attempt to change because they deem what is entrusted to be too burdensome. Which seems to be the case with most.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

He is the only Head of all within the Body, that is comprised of both male and female.  He is the spiritual “husband” of the Body/Bride.  The comparison of this husband/bride arrangement is made to a physical marriage of a man and a woman. 

As is so, as well as it's direct connection to that of the church and the family structure itself, therefore, when it comes to religious authority, such a position is not in the woman's grasp, despite that position being for the men, woman can help out in the church itself even though they cannot be leaders.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

This doesn’t give room for any man to acts as go between for Christ concerning anointed woman. Concerning ALL women.   Though, you believe so, just as the governing body believes so.  Yet, they also believe they are head over every anointed one, male or female, since they must fully obey the wicked slave, and their own “body” of elders that they “govern” over,  built outside of God’s intentions.  Matt 24:48-51

And yet Jesus entrusted the Church to bind and loosen, of which given to the Disciples and they to their students, who in turn not only become followers of the Christ, but Disciples themselves. Unless you have forgotten what has been said about the Spiritual House?

Yes, we can speak of anointed women, but the focus here is leadership in the church itself and the structure itself and what God has set in motion and what the Christ, the head of the church entrusted to those in his inner circle.

The belief has nothing to do with the Jehovah's Witnesses, in fact it predates even them, the belief is solely based on the early Church structure and the very indication of it that comes from he Bible. This is why I stated that even True Christian women will not agree with you on several points, and they themselves no leadership of authority in the church is not a role for them, nor any role that gives them authority over men.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

We have only one saviour, Christ. We are only to be Christ's servant, not man's.   For anyone to stand between Christ and another, and expect obedience to their "decrees", they take on the role of saviour, and the role of judge.   The governing body has successfully accomplished this.

Yes, we do have one savior, but at the same time our savior gave instruction and entrusted various things to the people of the church which is still practiced into this very day by only some.

This is the very reason why many people speak of the early church 2,000 years ago, as some would say and hold to a high importance of what it entails.

No one is standing between the Christ, people are merely defend His church and what His church is structured, as if our history is ever so clear, but the mainstream think otherwise.

In the end it has never been proven and or practiced, by Jesus' church that women are to be religious leaders of authority, therefore we shouldn't be in a position to alter such things.

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5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

This same Paul here said very advanced and almost innovative thought. He abolishes all the social divisions that are characteristic of the society in which they lives. I primarily think of Jewish society and religion as an indivisible part of the Jew people. Eliminates the difference on the basis of nationality. Eliminates the difference of status on a social scale caused by position or origin in society. Eliminates differences caused by belonging to sex, gender. (It not surprised if some talking how First Christians was the Religious Communist with the ideas of a classless, egalitarian society that shared their land and their other property and similar.)

I know of what he is talking about, I know what being one in Christ implies, but we clearly do not see Paul addressing religious leadership for women by means of the head of the church. This is what you fail to see because both you and Witness are not that knowledgeable of the church.

The irony here is what Paul said in verse 29, for we already know about how you view Abraham in his dealings with the ruler of Gerar and the Egyptian Pharaoh, to speak of this passage that is in connection with the Abrahamic Seed only makes you seem hypocritical of what has been talked about, to you, several times before, even recently.

We are indeed One in Christ, and our union allows both him and God to dwell in us - should we accept. In Jesus' case, it means taking in and accepting of what he had entrusted the church to do, of which you were in opposition of for several months, if not more. So if you really adhere to this passage, this verse, mind you, you best take a good look at everything that came from you in the past up to now.

That being said, none of which you stated in your attempt at an exegesis has no resolve to the main issue at hand regarding church leadership and authority of the church, and the funny thing is, you have not taken into account of whom these letters of Paul were present to, it should be obvious.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why these 3 stumbling stone are connected and put "in one bag" with clear  answer on problems that this 3 listed items causing till today?  

And what point are you trying to make when there was no resolve to begin with, Srecko Sostar? You are trying to mesh 2 things together to create a Frankenstein here as is of what was stated by you above.

One of the reason why it is what they say,  people lack in the history of the church, of which is said by both men and women and what they say is indeed true, and were we see this from both you and Witness.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When he talking about "you are all one in Christ", he undoubtedly talking about New Religious System of that NEW SOCIETY that try to forming New Congregation. Not New "Jew Congregation". Of course they are not been able to escape all obstacles and traps which drag them into the old system of worship of God and the religious hierarchy that existed in Jewish religion for so many centuries. They were not so strong to cut all ties with old things. Because "new light" that shined on them, for short time, was to much new for them to be that something what would be possible to incorporate into something new formed. And that they themselves did not know how this newly-found faith should actually look like in structure, in the relationship between the members, between the sexes.

The Church had already existed prior to that message being posed, in fact, the Epistles/Letters were sent to these Churches. Such has existed since God's Temples were still movable Tabernacles and the hierarchy has always remained the same. It is only later on centuries after, people began to and wanted to change the church, for they put into application that of what the world adheres to inside the church, therefore religious leadership and authority has been changed to include women when the Bible has never made the indication, as they say, it is as if they see it as God making Eve first and Adam second.

Apostle Paul was not talking about a New Religious System, learn your history and understand the facts, nor would I diminish what is read to be called a new society, it is more respectful to say those of the Spiritual House. This Church had both the Jews and the Gentiles and both of them believed in the same truths and accepted it, therefore, they are one in Christ because they understand what the truth entails, and they knew what was to be done to profess the truth by means of spreading the gospel.

There was no old system either because it has been as it ever was since creation of man. They never cut ties with old things, despite being of the New Covenant, as I last recall, the Jews and the Gentiles still profess Shema and other commandments.

Actually they are aware, have you not read the the other portions of Paul's letters? Or are you simply picking and choosing at this point without foundation to claim?

As I said, if the churches had already existed which is pretty much the predecessors of the Temples, how is it that they did not know? After all, you are aware of what a Temple is, judging by your other response elsewhere an there is no question you know what a Tabernacle is and or a Tent of Worship. Nothing has changed, Sostar, the Jews and the Gentiles are one in Christ and are part of the Church, they in turn being part of the Spiritual House, for they are the stones that make the house.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps Paul was highly "Inspired" while he dare to talking about such taboo theme - male and female are equal to the such point, to such level,  that sex/gender even not existing in Congregation of God, not existing as question, as principle, as stumbling stone, as difference, as controversy.

I concur, the focus here is the church, although male and female are of the church, both being one in the Christ, it does not change how the church has always been structured from the very beginning, unless you choose to avoid and ignore what Paul had stated in regards of Adam and Eve as you have done with what he said of Abraham?

Paul was inspired, but a lot of people seem to paint Paul as an enemy when they find out Paul does not agree with them. Paul was a good person and believed and followed the Christ, he knew of Jesus' God hence why he affirmed the ancient Law of the Jews to the Corinthians in full respects, in addition to alluding to the Law in his other letters, something of which those who claim Jesus to be God avoid saying because it breaks their doctrine.

Other than that, the Church will always be the Church. What Jesus had entrusted will remain despite some seeing it as burdensome. The structure of leadership and authority will remain the same for if anyone takes into account what was build 2,000 years ago they would not be ignorant of the facts and the information as well as the amount of evidence that is spoke by those who read and understand their Bibles. That being said, both men and women have roles in the church, but only one gender has a position of leadership, regardless all persons are under the head of the church for they are in union with him.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So they mixed old thoughts with new thoughts. Paul is one example. We find his commands to congregation about "silenced woman" and on other hand with full confidence he talking how "we are all one an equal".   :))

In terms of women not being in a position of leadership, hence why it speaks of silent women (ever bothered to check the references? No, you never have to begin with). Paul also shows us that he cares for women who do the works by means of teaching in the ministry as of which was presented in detail above. We clearly do not see anywhere Paul being okay and or making an indication to women leadership in the church, unless you are forgetting the madness  at the Temple of Artemis, that is, of which some like to bring up to make a case.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Here is context of verse i mentioned in the beginning, to see "whole picture" how he ( and I/me, hehehe) came to unity of sexes :)) because we are all: 

You have not put anything into context, this is also the same verse I mention to you that you were clearly not a fan of, so is this being hypocritical and or ignorant here?

Also it is a surprise to me you would include verse 29, you were not the type to be a fan of Abraham last I checked.

Other than that, your twisted exegesis in regards to how the church and the family was structured cannot change what is as hard as a diamond. It is no surprise Witness agrees with you here, the both of you need to learn, understand and educate yourselves on the history of the Church itself, learn of what the Bible says rather than yield upon your own understanding, other than that it is the Great Commission discussion over again but this time in regards to women and church leadership.

Despite combined efforts by the both of you, none of you cannot change anything in regards to God's Purpose and Will, through Jesus, to the people of the Church, who in fact have both God and Jesus dwelling in them.

That being said, unity is known, yes, but to twist what the has been entrusted, what has been built on to the foundation, only makes you exposed to be a person to adhere to the accursed, like I told you before, Srecko Sostar, our church fathers would be spinning in their graves, for what you, and even now, have stated is beyond baffling, therefore, I encourage you to learn, should you accept it, I encourage you to do the research, should you accept it. I even encourage you, if you are someone who travels, to go to those who read their Bible, perhaps speak to of such, and they will tell you, should you accept it.

But know this, you do not accept what is in the Bible, mainly in regards to the church, you will be the one to make answer for attempt to change what is highly sacred and what the Christ had built and what he is in regards of the church.

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7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
  • The Head of the Christ is God
  • The head of the Church is the Christ
  • The head of the Man is the Christ
  • The head of the woman is the Man

I wasn’t going to do this… 

Hmmm,

I remember reading it like this.  And "man" wasn't capitalized.  (I'm really getting a good picture of how you perceive women)

“But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” 1 Cor 11:3

Do you know that the Greek meaning for “man” ( anēr)   can be  “used generically of a group of both men and women”?

What if it was meaning this:

“But I want you to know that the head of every group of both men and women is Christ…”

Would scripture support this?  Gal 3:28; 2 Cor 11:2; 1 Cor 12:23,26  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gal+3%3A28%3B+2+Cor+11%3A2%3B+1+Cor+12%3A23%2C26&version=NIV

Does any male religious leader have higher authority over a woman than the man she is married to?  Line ten “christian” men up in front of a woman; one of them being her husband.  Who should she listen to?  Which male “head” should she choose?  Obviously, she would most likely listen to her fleshly husband.

BUT, if that wife decides she must leave the so-called “christian” religion she is in, realizing it preaches  “another Jesus”, should the husband stop her from doing so, since he does not share that opinion?  Since she realizes the difference between a truth and a lie, and is unable to spiritually “live” the lie any longer, should she do what her heart tells her and turn to Christ for guidance?  Of course!  She doesn’t need permission from her fleshly husband to heed Christ’s words of Matt 11:28.

Since she has chosen to listen to Christ, he is her only spiritual Head.  Her fleshly husband has no authority over her spiritual well-being. No religious leader has authority over her decision to serve Christ the way she feels is proper.  That is between Christ and herself, although she can certainly share what she learns, since marriage mates are “partners” and would work out their religious differences, giving respect to each other’s spiritual needs, as well as fleshly needs.

So, the Head of the anointed “church”, is ONLY Christ.  True spiritual “leaders” who are members of the Body, would be chosen by Christ, not men.  If it happens to be a woman, who’s going to argue it?  Her husband?  ?  The  true spiritual guidance given by a man to a woman is much different than practicing unrelenting authority over her, such as Watchtower’s “shepherds”, who have been the given ability to judge anyone as unfit for God’s Kingdom, if that person rejects this falsely given authority.

The fleshly wife is to be a “helper” to her husband, just as the Bride of Christ will be Christ’s helper, recognizing he is still their Master.  2 Tim 2:20,21

God’s word tells us,

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”  Rom 6:16

We cannot serve two Masters.  Our fleshly marriage must be in balance with our commitment to Christ.  We spiritually serve only God and Christ.  If we, male or female, put obeying men above Jesus, we will succumb to devoting our time, energy and resources to men (and what they desire to build), instead of Christ.  Matt 6:24

Col 1:18 - And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 Anointed women are part of the body of Christ, the church.  They are not sitting on the bench or in some other zone you have created mentally,  but are equal in all respects, to men.

Mary

Acts 1:12-14 - Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk[c] from the city. 13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Acts 2:1-4   When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Do you think there was chance they were prophesying?  I do.   Please, don’t limit the ability of God, His Son Jesus Christ, and the gift of Holy Spirit.

Now, I am done.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

I remember reading it like this.  And "man" wasn't capitalized.  (I'm really getting a good picture of how you perceive women)

Granted that I have to keep going back and forth all the time I do not have much time to make corrections, copying and pasting as I go and I spoke of the verse from memory, so clearly I am not trying to prove anything by means of punctuation and pronunciation, simply stating what the passage says from memory , and if you want to play that card, you had shown before a total disrespect in confusing Heavenly Jerusalem with Earthly Jerusalem, for confusing the two, by some is seen as a violation.

I am not belittling and or putting women in a bad light, I am simply stating what is true by means of the church and what the bible says and it would seem even the truth you are against, especially as to what Paul says.

That being said, men and women have roles in the church and only one of them have religious leadership in the church, under the Christ. It is not a matter of favoritism, it is not a matter of who is better than who, it is a matter of how and what the structure of things are within the church and only the church and what such derives from, hence the mention of Adam and Eve.

Wanting to accuse now? I can tell you this so you know exactly of how I view my fellow men and fellow women, the very culture which my people  I abide by would literally scatter your perception, for we do not do things like you in the west do for we are not of such a life, for us it is family, peace, truth and all that is good for what is good, headstrong in safeguarding our people, even in the face of danger and disaster, even when the US president disgraces us, it does not hinder us because we do not take the side of such a man or anyone who is of that fold, and most importantly, we have a total high regard and care God and his Word and read it constantly,  all of such has been taught  by the time we could walk, in my case, it was taken a step further, learning a Languages, history, Christology and a list of other things and so forth, so I suggest you not make an attempt to cash check you know you cannot cash in this regard because the way I see it, you do not really take into account fully of what the Bible says, what God's Word says, the very reason you are being informed in what the church and family is and what it is based on, according to Apostle Paul.

Anyone man or woman who dishonors another among my people's culture is seen as a disgraced one, as it is said in my language, Personne disgraciée. For what we see here no one is disgracing women here, what is simply being said is a biblical truth and nothing but that truth as well as correcting what your current view is which is clearly of mainstream Christendom, and it is evident that you never dwell outside anything in regards of the history of either the Bible or the church and this has been seen.

It is also clear that I will never, ever break and tweak the Bible for the sake of Traditions of men of which mainstream Christendom professes (mainly as to what is spoken of in this topic in an attempt to make changes to what is said), so if you want to make such a bold claim, I allow you try, it will not help you, nor will it help Sostar because apparently you guys have no idea of anything to say about the church, granted of how the both of you already view the Great Commission.

But I can already see such shifting to those of the Priesthood when we are talking about those of the church who has the abilities to bind and loosen, such ones of authority under the head of the Church, the Christ.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you know that the Greek meaning for “man” ( anēr)   can be  “used generically of a group of both men and women”?

Granted I am capable of reading and speaking as well as understanding words and expressions in both Greek and Hebrew, it is not unknown to me. In the manuscript and Greek Strong's that is a 435.

QUOTE: with a reference to sex, and so to distinguish a man from a woman; either a. as a male: Acts 8:12; Acts 17:12; 1 Timothy 2:12; or b. as a husband: Matthew 1:16; Mark 10:2; John 4:16; Romans 7:2; 1 Corinthians 7:2; Galatians 4:27; 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6, etc.; a betrothed or future husband: Matthew 1:19; Revelation 21:2, etc.

Outline:

Quote
  1. with reference to sex

    1. of a male

    2. of a husband

    3. of a betrothed or future husband

  2. with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy

  3. any male

  4. used generically of a group of both men and women

So it would be better to tell me something I do not know rather than attempting to and or thinking I do not know what is already known, so that will not do you as much.

so let me tell you something you may not know about this word, it has an occurrence totaling up to 216 with it appearing inasmuch as around occurs 193 verses in the Greek New Testament alone.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

“But I want you to know that the head of every group of both men and women is Christ…”

According to the scripture, it does not say, so do not add to the text as is the very reason I brought up Deuteronomy 4:2.

But I see what you are doing with the verses, you are attempting to mix the structure of the family and the church with that of being one in Christ - Salvation (the common game that mainstreamers like to play when they want to put opinion and feeling into a believe that is never professed); as you can see, there is no time for games, only the Bible, in my case play little, read more. That being said, as already mention,  it speaks of those who are able to have salvation, this is not the first time someone has attempt this, for I have ran into people of the mainstream who tried this for over 8 years now because they attempt to add traditions of men and political based ideas and opinions by means of feeling into the church so that women can hold some office of authority.

Also looking that up only points back to you and nowhere else, for that claim is unheard.

You were right to speak on maidservants and Prophetesses, but you show yourself to be completely blind on the church structure itself, even when taught by someone who has studied the church itself for a long, long time, you, still remain think otherwise of what the Bible says and clearly you expect people to not see that, well you are mistaken, as if every time I spoke of the church it should have been known to you by now of someone who is and willing to speak this historic truth of a structure based on that of God's view in terms of creation, after all, it was addressed by Paul (for I had mentioned the verse strongly on page 2), not you or Sostar even dwell upon what is said by Paul in his other writings, mainly that of First Timothy and Romans, let alone application of context.

But it would seem the both of you like mixing that of Salvation, being on in Christ with how the church's hierarchy layout, addressed by Paul even, is, for there is a reason as to why Paul said what he said about our first human parents, what can be said is he was not dwelling on culture, but rather, creation and how he equaled that to that of the church and family, for it is in direct connection with God's view and what Jesus entrusted the church to do. The mixing of Pentecost into the mix was as well a total failure in this sense let alone referring to someone who was not called and or mention to be a Prophetess.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Does any male religious leader have higher authority over a woman than the man she is married to?  Line ten “christian” men up in front of a woman; one of them being her husband.  Who should she listen to?  Which male “head” should she choose?  Obviously, she would most likely listen to her fleshly husband.

This just shows you lack knowledge of the church and in defense of what you cannot even defend.

Men who hold a religious leadership in the church, as seen in biblical accounts are in a position of authority to everyone of that church, a good example is when Apostle Paul had to deal with those who were followers of Artemis and how critical he was in this regard. Paul even speaks of position and roles of men in the church and it is clear here he is referring to men of which can hold some sort of religious office and authority in the church, and clearly the early brothers of the church, some were married and some were not. Women on the other hand, of that church, as others who are not in a position of authority listen to those who are in the lead, but they too help the church by means of ministry and teaching, but never have any woman in the Greek New Testament is spoke of and or seen to hold a religious leadership, for we only see this position held by men, granted with what is said by Paul in scripture.

And now we see here, by this response, you didn't do yourself a favor to even study and or look this up, and yet we see you dwell upon your own opinions and feelings in order to not adhere to what even the Bible says, or perhaps you are among those in the mainstream who is in total opposition of Apostle Paul, for those I have dealt with too in the past, even in person?

2 hours ago, Witness said:

BUT, if that wife decides she must leave the so-called “christian” religion she is in, realizing it preaches  “another Jesus”, should the husband stop her from doing so, since he does not share that opinion?  Since she realizes the difference between a truth and a lie, and is unable to spiritually “live” the lie any longer, should she do what her heart tells her and turn to Christ for guidance?  Of course!  She doesn’t need permission from her fleshly husband to heed Christ’s words of Matt 11:28.

You can speak on the modern day faiths all you want, but the focus here is what the Bible says of the early church, for I see here of what you are already attempting to do for the resolve, it is not going to help you for even people today, even women will speak of the church as I have because they know the biblical evidence and history, some even know The Didache by heart, for these women are true women of the church, women of Christ because compared to you they do not try to twist in their own reasoning to justify something that totally different. This is why I invite you to actually read up on the history rather than dwell on your own feelings, perhaps send question to the one you adhere to, the one you follow and maybe you will find an answer in regards to the church, but most likely even the view of this person shows.

That being said, the church, as said before, cannot change, nor can it be tweaked, abandon and or molded into something else. It has been in place for a very long time an the early Church, since one of you mentioned Matthew 16, was always and will forever be what it is, and those who adhere to it are in the right vs. the mainstream who makes ANYONE a pastor nowadays when the bible makes it clear.

As for lies and true, what is true is what has always been said, and I agree with Paul on every regard, especially as to his example of using creation, that of Adam and Eve in references to the church, to avoid this truth only proves one to be in the wrong here.

There is no other Jesus also, there is only one Jesus. For this one, the Christ, is the Son of God, he came from God and has returned to him, only soon to return again.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Since she has chosen to listen to Christ, he is her only spiritual Head.  Her fleshly husband has no authority over her spiritual well-being. No religious leader has authority over her decision to serve Christ the way she feels is proper.  That is between Christ and herself, although she can certainly share what she learns, since marriage mates are “partners” and would work out their religious differences, giving respect to each other’s spiritual needs, as well as fleshly needs.

So what would be the point to bring up Matthew 16 when clearly there is a direct references to what Jesus had entrusted the church with? To say otherwise is like gambling with an Agnostic at this point.

Christ set an example for us and he is the head of the church, no one else but him is the stone that is the foundation of the church and that stone cannot be broken and or changed. Apostle Paul was right to what he said and will always be in the right no matter how some Christians now a days paint him as the villain.

Religious leaders of authority are in charge of teaching, in the church, helping out, in the church, and other things such as offering question to what needs to be answered and a list of other things, most importantly, what they teach must be accurate to what the Bible says and by means of what is says that must be practiced, and I have already spoken about the role of women and it is silly to stress it time and time again only for such ones to make a defense that is indefensible followed by depleted sources.

The irony here,a s mention before, even true Christian women who abide by what the scriptures say know exactly of which is being stressed about religious leadership, and they also know despite not being in a position of authority they are not left out for they too have roles to help the church even though they cannot lead in the church, for they to are for the Christ. And all members of the church have respect for one another and their neighbor, and obviously if anything is accursed, something will be said.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”  Rom 6:16

And? From slaves of sin to slaves of God, those of righteousness (15-23). This is in regards to an Epistle to the Romans when Paul was addressing those who are gripped by Sin, but a path for them to become servants of God is possible by means of that very gift God gifts, that is, Lord Jesus Christ, and by means of this gift God gives, in turn, Eternal Life,hence that of which is spoken of by Paul and everyone in the churches afterwards, Salvation.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

We cannot serve two Masters.  Our fleshly marriage must be in balance with our commitment to Christ.  We spiritually serve only God and Christ.  If we, male or female, put obeying men above Jesus, we will succumb to devoting our time, energy and resources to men (and what they desire to build), instead of Christ.  Matt 6:24

Granted that Jesus gave the church the ability to bind and loosen, he had everything set in motion for a reason 2,000 years ago when the foundation was put in place.

Once again, using a verse in order to compete with that of the structure of the church, of which Jesus' church operates, or that of what Paul had already professed regarding the church.

For if those given who had been entrusted with what is suppose to be done to the church simply abandon it, what do you suppose the position they will be in with the head of the church himself?

Clearly no one wants to be in that position.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Col 1:18 - And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Tell me something I do not know, granted I stressed this verse over and over here mainly to the very person here who thinks Jesus is God. You should have put in bold Firstborn from the Dead, for that was spoken of in the church as well and is in connection with Jesus being of the first fruits, of the Spiritual House, etc.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Anointed women are part of the body of Christ, the church.  They are not sitting on the bench or in some other zone you have created mentally,  but are equal in all respects, to men.

This is already known, but the focus, as said over and over and over again is the church structure, the very reason Apostle Paul was speaking in terms of not culture, but creation in regards to the church's structure and that of the family. I do not see the issue here of which you are trying to avoid.

If you speak of Paul you say everything he has said, this includes the church, itself, if you want to talk and discussed about the Spiritual House, we can do that, but I recall I have corrected you on this also several times.

If I believe women did nothing why would have I mention roles of women who actually can minister, can teach and the like, women having the gifts and so forth? But I guess it is what they say of people in the US at times, because one follows the bible seriously, they see things differently.

The reality is women are just as valued as men, but never would a women,  attempt to break the church structure, ever, as I said, there are women who would say the same thing as me, those who are not of mainstream Christendom and when I traveled I have met them an their families, so please, if you want to stress the idea that I would betray my own in our culture of respect, I allow you try, I won't also let you add on to the bible as you have already.

Indeed, equal, but according to God's view, what is said of Jesus, and of Paul and Church Fathers, the roles of which both sides have within the church is as it will ever be, granted if you take what Paul stated in 1 Timothy seriously.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Mary

Acts 1:12-14 - Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk[c] from the city. 13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Yes, I know of Mary and I stressed Pentecost as well as Acts 1 and 2 over a dozen times here, especially on Bible Discussion.

But as you can see, your response of saying Mary is a Prophetess, when such is never mention of her to even be one, has been proven false. Therefore, do not add to the text, for in doing so, you only paint yourself to believe what is accursed within the mainstream Christendom, on second thought, never have I seen anyone say Mary is and or called a Prophetess, for if Modalist and Trinitarians wouldn't dare say such, that is how you know someone is clearly in the wrong, and you make such persons look like saints.

Like I said, Mary and other women had roles in the church, they can minister, they can teach, it does not stop them from praying or following God's Law, for both men and women work together under Christ, all of which, under God and have the utmost respect for God's Purpose and Will and will not make the attempt to change it, be it the church, be it those of the Spiritual House, or those of Priesthood (for such ones claim only a certain race is of this group, which is false). You clearly do not see Mary as a Prophetess here, nor do you see her and or any woman leading a church in biblical times - they were members of the church, handmaids, servants, etc they help out, they minister and the like. Mary was indeed a good woman of faith and is highly respected, as I had told Sostar before, just like Sarah, Mary is seen as a Hero for she carried the burden on protecting, teaching and being their for Jesus as he grew up, she even taught Jesus the Law, and Jesus spoke of and taught of his human mother with a high regard, so if anyone were to say otherwise of her will be corrected.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you think there was chance they were prophesying?  I do.   Please, don’t limit the ability of God, His Son Jesus Christ, and the gift of Holy Spirit.

Granted with what took place after Pentecost and what the cross-references say , of which I had already made mention of in First Corinthians, as of what was quoted before: 1 Corinthians 12:8, 10

  • 1 Corinthians 12:8, 10 - [8] For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, [10]  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

In short, for everything and all points to the spreading of the gospel, as well as the Messianic Age.

They spoke of the Messianic Age and as they spoke of it, they taught and converted people, bringing them into the church, baptizing them and so forth and their students, now turned disciples, do the same thing that is to come, clearly you do not see them predicting events that will lead up to it, therefore, the Great Commission is in place, the gospel for what is written of what is to come, which includes the good news gospel as seen in the Four Evangelicalist accounts that record Jesus' ministry.

Why would I limit God for speaking of His truth that come from the bible? Dare I speak in full blown out context it would not put you in a good light for what is already said is enough evidence of what we see by means of the church's history. I am not  and will never limit God in any way shape or form so do not make the accusation before it will end up hurting you in the end. you already hurt yourself by comparing a Prophetess to a handmaid when we know clearly by means of the Strong's such are not even the same. Nowhere would I limit Jesus because I am and will always be in high amounts of defense in regards of who the Son of God is and will defend the Christ as I have done for nearly 2 decades, defend him from those who teach falsely of who he is and or make an attempt to speak of him being a God when Jesus is clearly the Son. Nor do I speak ill of the Holy Spirit, as some attempt to claim it is a person when it is not, I speak truth of the Holy Spirit because among other things, this one is number one on needing to be defended for people have such ill views and or doctrines in regard of the Holy Spirit that is of minor to major absurdity ever seen, mainly when it comes to dealing with those who have the most brazen view of the Spirit.

Therefore, accurate knowledge of things is the only thing I care about, even if at times detail and strictness must come into play but in the end, it is important that such ones know the truth and nothing but the truth, it is also important for people to not dwell on false information, of a bible passage, verse, historic account, a faith, a teaching, a tradition, and things on the outside when it comes to correcting those who dwell on conspiracy, those who believe in aggressive behavior to find resolve, those who are wanting to make something seen as illegal, legal, and a list of other things, for I have been around a lot of stuff, technically as some would said, molded by fire, if you will. So if any deceit is spoken, it will be corrected, regardless of who said it and where it came from. I'd say a Caribbean proverb on this matter, but I will say it for a strong response later on.

I invite you to read up on the early church because clearly you lack it and show you confuse that of the church hierarchy with salvation. For at least learn something rather than dwell on your own understanding because as of right now, historic accounts and biblical evidence stack up against you. You may not be a person who goes to church or whatever, but you be wise to not think otherwise of the early church and the early Christians on how they did things.

For if you truly knew of the Holy Spirit and what took place in regards to Pentecost, you would not be ignoring the context and references of what the people did, including Mary.

That being said, I guess I'd have to teach both you and Srecko Sostar in full detail of what is being stressed here, so expect here soon, you've only seen what was addressed in page 2 of which both of you really have to read upon and understand, perhaps what a Prophetess is, of which is also mentioned on page 2.

Next time, do not confuse Salvation with that of the family and church structure, it is not a good move to make, granted when one knows what a verse and a passage speaks of in context, references, evidence and or other. But as always, a lot of people ignore references anyways, hence why it is brought up to correct such persons.

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Very long ago, there was one JW sister. She died. She had a husband and a son. Her husband also died. Her son is alive, he is now cca 70 years old and he is a longtime elder. That sister, his mother, Zorica, was anointed. What I remember, about her very well today, is that how she always spoke with a voice that was the voice of authority. It was the teacher's voice, who giving lessons. After she made a comment in the kingdom hall, no one, but no one nor the elders added their comment or correction to her comment.
Perhaps she was a person of such a character, and did not adopt the "spirit of gentleness and silence" while sitting in the KH :)))) expected for JW sisters, mothers, and women. But she spoke with the authority of the one who is equal or even above the elders position.
I was always wondered how her son, elder, felt because they lived in a house that was her and her husband and been in the same congregation.

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4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I am not  and will never limit God in any way shape or form so do not make the accusation before it will end up hurting you in the end. you already hurt yourself by comparing a Prophetess to a handmaid when we know clearly by means of the Strong's such are not even the same.

Could not a Prophetess also be a housemaid? 

I assume they have to work for a living.

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@Srecko Sostar Comparing of what you had told Gone Away in regards to your former affilation with the faith, can you be more specific of the year at least in estimate? Is the son is now 70 years of age (2018), that means he was born around the late 1940s, so counting back from 2018, it would be the year 1948, around the time of World War II, also around the same year several of this events were taking place as listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_in_the_United_States

So who passed away first, the husband or the wife? For if she had a husband, perhaps the husband was the first to go before she did.

As far as I know, JWs, who are still fresh Bible Students has and always have been this way since the Great Awakening compared to mainstream Christendom, as far as I see it, of the Priesthood or not, we do not see this woman, Zorica in this narrative, a religious leader, let alone the one leading the church. She can speak, she can teach and make disciples, she can minister, she can question and answer, but we do not see her as a religious leader whatsoever. Women can make comment to a sermon in the church, they cannot give a sermon to the church, so therefore anything of the like, does not add truth to your claim of authority, simply an role in play by means of this person of the church she resided in.

It is not an adoption of "spirit of gentleness and silence" as you claim (once again you've proven to not even read for context), for if that was the case, why would she be doing the things she is doing? In fact, why would those in the 1st century, women, do what they were doing? The remark of silence, as addressed by Apostle Paul, was in seriousness to those who followed Artemis, and resided in the area for the Temple of Artemis was in the same area Paul was at the time, and women of Artemis were usually the ones to show up at the church and such ones remain silent.

She spoke yes, but where is it she held an office of authority in religious leadership of the church? I say this time and time again and every time you and Witness will come up with something else to say, even going as far as to go the route of comparing church/family scripture with that of verses that speak on Salvation, for last I check Salvation has nothing to do with religious leadership yet the both of you bring up such verses, and in your case, you are not a fan of Abraham due to what can be seen in our last discussion, of which I addressed the One in Christ passage to you and your response is vastly different on what you are and or attempting to convey here, again, this is coming from a guy who has told me God is not the type of person to care should one change their gender.

And what of her son? You were just talking about the woman, a destined one who clearly never ran and or lead the church in that faith, in fact, you never see any women of the faith lead a church, but a fail-safe situation is as it ever was for all try to abide by what the church actually is, as did our church fathers, as is Apostle Paul.

I leave you with this, for a woman who is anointed, also what year she became chosen, how long she has been in the faith and when did she die, granted her son was born around the late 1940s since you said he is now 70 years of age or is this another one of your mind games as you have done with the sse hydro venue, of which you swept under the rug when corrected? Surely if this woman was of high importance in your former faith, as you stated to Gone Away, you would have shared this information, and since it is the 1940s, this information would have been easily brought up, granted of how religious folks were back then, before and after World War II.

 

As I said, despite not having a religious leadership of authority, women could teach and minister outside, as well as outside of the church for they are and can be ministers, as seen with the example of Apollos, they are teachers of what is good and their efforts help out the church as seen in Titus 2:3-5, as stated before, 3 times. The woman was not to exercise authority over a man of authority in the church for she does not and cannot lead the church.

 

I suggest you read what is said and go learn the history of the church, as I told Witness, there was a reason why Apostle Paul spoke of Creation itself when referring to the church.

 

And next time, as said to Witness, do not try to mix passages together and expect to me in the right, but it is kind of a low blow to equal of what is said with Salvation of being One in Christ. granted I was critical of this with you before, and of Abraham's Seed. Give Galatians 3:29 a read to ring some bells.

 

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