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IS IT PROPER FOR A WOMAN TO SPEAK, TEACH AND PROPHESY?

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For over 40 years, I used to sit at a drafting table, and later at computer monitors, and design things.

... all kinds of things.

Lets say my boss came to seven different designers and asked for us to design something ... anything,

Without rock-solid airtight specifications you might get seven versions of whatever that thing was.

You might get an MP3 player that weighs 20 pounds and looks like a bathroom fixture.

At the time Eve was created there were already millions of pre-humans that evolved, but none directly created by God, until Adam and Eve were created. ( ... a planet full of a million tons and more of fossils make it pretty clear what DID happen .... ).

By the way ... that's where Cain got his wife, and further messed up the gene pool ....)

Jehovah God is not accountable to us as to how WE think he should have done things .... he COULD have made us have a caterpillar stage like butterflies, and that would have been his choice.

The really cool thing about being Almighty God, is the absolute flexibility  and power to do ANYTHING you want, however you see fit.

Second guessing the Almighty God is, by practical definition, an exercise in futility.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

NO INDICATION how God was said anything about a hierarchy that favors a male over a female.

Did you not read the above and or choose at your own will to avoid of actual truth in this matter? And so I cometh, to invite ye, to gaze upon what is written above in response.

It's not a matter of favoritism, Sostar, it is a matter of how Adam and then Eve had came about on to the earth as to how the church and family is structured, of which is heavily explained above in full detail.

A female cannot be above the man, a child cannot be above his father and or mother, mainly in regards to the father who is present and is of authority to the family household for he is the head, or as the Americans say, The Man of the House.

If you think of such in this regard, show me where in the bible that the woman is the head of the man? Unfounded and indefensible.

For it would seem in the realm of the church by means of history, you are not strong in this domain here.

For as your other comments, you've already crashed your new car before it has even left the Dealer's Lot.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WHY this chapter told that God made some soft of omission, when 1 chapter say that God create both of them without time gap. How could be that Creator made all in pairs, but missed to see how male man would be lost, lonely, unsuccessful without female man "Helper". If male need helper in person of female, then he (Adam and all Adam till today) needs HELP in ALL what he/they need, have to do. According to verse, he need to have HELPER AS PARTNER. NOT helper as female servant, female slave, female mute.

Adam was made first and only later on when Adam was in subjection of wanting a mate of his own after seeing the animals, Eve had been , made when Adam went into a deep sleep and a rib was take out of his body and used by God to make another human being, a female, of whom is called and name Eve (for she was named by Adam himself).

So to say there was no time gap, clearly you haven't really read into Genesis that much.For chapter 1 of Genesis is of the beginning of creation in an introductory form, for if God was spoken of to make man and woman and yet in chapter 2 we see him only now making Adam, you are only going to run into a problem here. This is the same case with John 1 and Mark 1 for some people, apparently yours, it is Genesis.

Perhaps because man was made in his image and likeness only after every other thing in the heavens and the sea has been created? Granted of when God created the first man, that alone is a clue of which is in place for you to follow.

Helper and or Partner is irrelevant to the discussion and I rather not go out of discussion. Today, Sostar, the key phrase is being focused, so no more games, giggles and convoluted statements form this point on.

Lastly, you fail to see that the women is clearly no mute, the focus here is religious leadership, after all you were in agreement some points before, why the change?

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

A man is incomplete without a woman! Verse said so! So how we come to the point that woman must be in "silent" in all things, not only in so called "spiritual" things connected with faith, beliefs,  worshiping.  

Clearly you haven't read and or taken into context of what was stated. This time take into account biblical facts and information, mainly that of the historic position of the early church itself.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In WT religion husband or male must to have last/final word on anything, according to GB bible scholars teachings. With or without "helper" help/helping :))))

At this point, the Watchtower is as irrelevant as a fly on the wall for they know their stance in regard of the early church nor making mention of them will help your resolve here - granted of how strong the historical ascpets of the church that comes from the Bible is made known to us, therefore, even predates JWs for them and all of us were not alive or even existing during the days of the early church, for even anything from them will save you from what is being talked about - Church History, something of which those who claim to be Christians and yet adhere to the mainstream do not have a grasp of knowledge in. Today you'll learn and you will learn it the hard way.

As is said before, we only see the virgin Mary meeting a Prophetess, Mary is never spoken of to be a Prophetess, granted her position in all this, as is Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist.

We know women can be ministers, teachers, prophetess, which is absolutely true, but NEVER we see in the church's structure that a women holds office to and or religious leadership of authority within the church's history and it is yet unseen by means of the biblical accounts of anyone who makes claim and or attempts to connect something that is not there, putting a puzzle piece in the wrong spot, so to speak.

We know of dire situations that will put women to task, but such is not permanent and or everlasting, and if oversea affairs has taught us anything, we see such being done, and I o not need to post any sources from Syria again because I have already and mention such over and over, even to you.

That being said, you can go about and speak your peace, you cannot do anything to alter and or try to refute that of the early church's position in regards to religious leadership and authority and the roles and position of men and women of the church.

You can go about speaking of women ministers and the like, but clearly when it comes to the church's authority, you are merely throwing pebbles at a titanium wall right now, a fight that cannot be finished, a fight that cannot be won, case and point, Sostar. Other than that, I find your lack in giggles disturbing this time around.

The only people to fight for religious leadership of authority to be held by women are only those of the mainstream Christendom, for they think if a man can do it, they can do it too, having a total disregard of what the Bible says and the history of the church as seen in the Bible. To make matters worse, they do not even take into account of head coverings.

So it is wise to not cross a line that you yourself knows is not right.

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16 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I wonder if in Mexico, when a woman temporarily substitutes for a man in the Congregation, if she has to wear a sombrero?

Not quite. They will where a head covering that appears to be somewhat looking as though it is a Hijab. As long as the head is cover, which is in respects to God's Law and biblical standards, it should be A-OK, at least these young girls and women have respect compared to the mainstream, new age and charismatic movements in the US.

    Hello guest!

    Hello guest!

Mexico is rather dangerous also if you do not know where you are and or going, for any man who the Cartel sees as a threat will be dealt with. The Cartel show no purpose to a popular Mexican kid on YouTube who had quite the colorful words for them, only for the next day, this kid, is no more and was done away with by the group he insulted, this can be found here: 

    Hello guest!
 

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You don't pull on Superman's cape,

You don't spit into the wind.

You don't pull the mask off the Ol' Lone Ranger, and

You don't publicly insult known thugs, mobsters etc.

The Kid could probably win 2017's  Darwin Award, if not already awarded.

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18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Also you still have not mention Mary in depth,

My thoughts on this matter concur with the article, and I cannot see pursuing the point with you any further, SP. 

I will, though, touch on Mary.

When keeping in mind this scripture first proclaimed by Joel…

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy
.”  Acts 2:17,18

...read Mary’s prayer:

 “My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
48 
For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant;
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.
49 
For He who is mighty has done great things for me,
And holy is His name.
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him
From generation to generation.
51 He has shown strength with His arm;
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
52 He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
And exalted the lowly.
53 He has filled the hungry with good things,
And the rich He has sent away empty.
54 He has helped His servant Israel,
In remembrance of His mercy,
55 
As
He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and to his seed forever.”  Luke 1:46-55

Can you not see that she spoke these words as the result of the pouring out of Holy Spirit upon her?

It is the same with Zacharias:

Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:

68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 
As
He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

76 “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.”  Luke 1:67-79
 

 

Oh, one other thing. 

Eph 5:23 -   “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.”

"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."  KJV

This is a comparison of “heads”.  Christ is head of the church.  The church is the anointed Body.  (Matt 16:18)

“And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.”  Col 1:18

He is the only Head of all within the Body, that is comprised of both male and female.  He is the spiritual “husband” of the Body/Bride.  The comparison of this husband/bride arrangement is made to a physical marriage of a man and a woman. 

“For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.”  2 Cor 11:2

This doesn’t give room for any man to acts as go between for Christ concerning anointed woman. Concerning ALL women.   Though, you believe so, just as the governing body believes so.  Yet, they also believe they are head over every anointed one, male or female, since they must fully obey the wicked slave, and their own “body” of elders that they “govern” over,  built outside of God’s intentions.  Matt 24:48-51

We have only one saviour, Christ. We are only to be Christ's servant, not man's.   For anyone to stand between Christ and another, and expect obedience to their "decrees", they take on the role of saviour, and the role of judge.   The governing body has successfully accomplished this.

"Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand."  Rom 14:4

 

 

 

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Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

This same Paul here said very advanced and almost innovative thought. He abolishes all the social divisions that are characteristic of the society in which they lives. I primarily think of Jewish society and religion as an indivisible part of the Jew people. Eliminates the difference on the basis of nationality. Eliminates the difference of status on a social scale caused by position or origin in society. Eliminates differences caused by belonging to sex, gender. (It not surprised if some talking how First Christians was the Religious Communist with the ideas of a classless, egalitarian society that shared their land and their other property and similar.)

Why these 3 stumbling stone are connected and put "in one bag" with clear  answer on problems that this 3 listed items causing till today?  

When he talking about "you are all one in Christ", he undoubtedly talking about New Religious System of that NEW SOCIETY that try to forming New Congregation. Not New "Jew Congregation". Of course they are not been able to escape all obstacles and traps which drag them into the old system of worship of God and the religious hierarchy that existed in Jewish religion for so many centuries. They were not so strong to cut all ties with old things. Because "new light" that shined on them, for short time, was to much new for them to be that something what would be possible to incorporate into something new formed. And that they themselves did not know how this newly-found faith should actually look like in structure, in the relationship between the members, between the sexes.

Perhaps Paul was highly "Inspired" while he dare to talking about such taboo theme - male and female are equal to the such point, to such level,  that sex/gender even not existing in Congregation of God, not existing as question, as principle, as stumbling stone, as difference, as controversy.

So they mixed old thoughts with new thoughts. Paul is one example. We find his commands to congregation about "silenced woman" and on other hand with full confidence he talking how "we are all one an equal".   :))

Here is context of verse i mentioned in the beginning, to see "whole picture" how he ( and I/me, hehehe) came to unity of sexes :)) because we are all: 

Children of God

23 Before the coming of this faith,[

    Hello guest!
] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

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2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Does this mean that Bill can date, if Hillary goes to prison?

yes, if he change his sex/gender  :)))))

maybe i am not good in try to switch myself to US humor, but you know...that is me :))

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5 hours ago, Witness said:

My thoughts on this matter concur with the article, and I cannot see pursuing the point with you any further, SP. 

It is relevant to the topic because one has to realize that a woman can be a minister in the preaching and teaching of the gospel, a woman can be a teacher, a woman can put into application the gifts of which has been given and a list of other things, but it is known and cannot be changed of the church's hierarchy, it's structure, for of God we have the Christ and the Christ is the head of the Church. The head of the Woman is the Man.

 

  • The Head of the Christ is God
  • The head of the Church is the Christ
  • The head of the Man is the Christ
  • The head of the woman is the Man

A man is of God's glory and a woman is of Man's glory, for man comes from God and a woman comes from man, and as so the Scriptures go.

Stuff like this is important because should you be in a position to explain this stuff you have to be very accurate, a small misstep will drive one to dwell on what is not spoken of in the Bible or not making something known in full will cause confusion and contradiction.

Before you listed Mary as a Prophetess, if you are bringing forth information of her being a maidservant/slave girl, why refer to her as a Prophetess when the distinction between the two are not the same? For this is why the Strong's exist, this is why we have manuscripts.

A Prophetess is a woman and or women who is able to prophesies or carries on action by means of their work and what they say for they are a prophetess (male counterparts simply called Prophet). A Prophetess speaks of prophecy, prophesying  by means of inspiration, speaking of and or telling forth of messages from God for like angels, a Prophetess, as well as Prophets, are under Shaliah Principle (Also refereed to as Angelic Agency), they reveal the comes from God, of what his purpose and will entails. They are capable of predicting events that is to come. Even as there were both true and false prophets, so some prophetesses were used by Jehovah and were moved by his spirit while others were false prophetesses, disapproved by Him.

In Mary's case,


Mary was a handmaiden, which is also a maidservant and or slave/slave girl, she was not and is not a Prophetess, never was spoken to be one or called one as is the others, the same goes for any person who makes claim to Prophets when it has never been addressed, for even in Greek there is a distinction between these two and the very words itself. For Mary, the human mother of Jesus is referred also as the maidservant or handmaid of the Lord or servant of the Lord or slave girl, etc., such as which are titles of honour for she is the mother of Jesus, the mother of the Prophet who have been prophesied to come and that Prophet being the Son of God himself. In the Gospel of Luke it describes and mentions Mary as the maidservant/handmaid/slave girl when she gives her consent to the message of the Angel of whom God sent, Gabriel (Angel of YHWH) as seen in Luke 1:38, and when she proclaims how great the Lord is and because of the great things he has worked in her, as seen in Luke 1:49.

We also know (well I am sure everyone here knows) that after the prophecies of Simeon and the Prophetess Anna seen in Luke 2:25-38  and it being concluded, Joseph and Mary took young Jesus and returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth, seen in Luke 2:39. For if Mary was indeed a Prophetess, the aid from these two would not have been needed to begin with while she and her husband, Joseph, was with baby Jesus at the Temple of God.

Moreover, it is no surprise to anyone of why God had chosen Mary and Mary's actual history, as is the history of those of her household - her relatives. But nowhere in the scriptures it is seen hat Mary is spoken of as a Prophetess, for any talk about a Prophetess is explicit and attempting to mix a handmaid/maidservant/slave with a Prophetess will not do you any good, as for your verses, it would have been wise to check out the references also to even show you of what has been stated.

As for Mary, she had always been God fearing, never in scripture we see her predict upcoming events, what she knows is what her people knows and what they lived by, this being of God's Laws and what God had said, for Mary was the type of young person to give praise to God constantly for she not only knows who the God of Israel is, but she gives praise every on occasion. She had knew the Law and she applied this and she taught the Law to her young, which was the way it was for the people.

It would have been fairly easy and understandable if the Bible says she was a Prophetess and or makes claim to such, granted of how that role is for some women and the very fact it is mention a few times in the Greek New Testament, perhaps 2-3 times, but nowhere we see any occurrences of the Prophetess title in connection with Mary, so we should not be adding to the word (Deuteronomy 4:2).
 

Know the difference, I recommend Bible Hub (I've only pulled up the Greek, for there is no need for the Hebrew at this moment):

    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!
    • Hello guest!
    (bondband/handmaid/slave)
    • Hello guest!
    (Prophetess)
    • Hello guest!
     (female slave/maidservant/handmaid)
     
5 hours ago, Witness said:

I will, though, touch on Mary.

When keeping in mind this scripture first proclaimed by Joel…

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy
.”  Acts 2:17,18

First off, bear in mind the references for verse 17 (Joel 2:28) and references for verse 18 (1 Corinthians 12:8, 10).

We must also bear in mind that Pentecost was a day that the helper came to the people after Jesus had ascended, this helper being the Holy Spirit that having been outpoured to the early Christians. The Bible shows us that Pentecost is given in the Acts 2 as well as including Peter's Sermon at Pentecost (14-41) that puts major importance to The Resurrection and Exaltation. In his sermon, Peter quotes Joel 2:28-32, as well as Psalms 16 to indicate that first Pentecost marks the start of an age, The Messianic Age, this age being a time where there will be a period of time when the Messiah will reign as King and bring peace to all, those among his co-ruling fold, persons destined for Priesthood and those who benefit from Eternal Life, for these persons are the stones, as for the wicked and evil, they will be nowhere to be found nor will hinder any man, woman or child, for all there will be is peace and tranquility among the people and all that is good - all of which is of God's purpose and will for mankind and will soon be accomplished by means of his chosen one.

And what do we find out about those among Pentecost and what they did afterwards? The references for verse 18 speaks for itself. We also know that these persons went out of their way to teach, to make disciples of people and to baptize them and all of these persons, given the  Holy Spirit did the works, and spoke by means of the Spirit, wisdom, and these persons speak of the Messianic Age. Furthermore, these people, who of the New Covenant, as discussed with you before, are part of the Spiritual House themselves, as said, they are the stones of that house.

This includes, the disciples, all men and women in attendance, and anyone in connection with the Christ and listened, even Mary.

We do not see any indication of Mary being called a Prophetess, a maidservant yes, but not a Prophet of any kind, granted when one is capable of understanding the difference.

5 hours ago, Witness said:

Eph 5:23 -   “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.”

"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."  KJV

This is already known. What is not really mention by some is that God's glory is the man, and Man's glory is the woman. For a man came from God and man exist because of God, for a woman came from man and a woman exist because of a man (1 Corinthians 11:2-16).

6 hours ago, Witness said:

This is a comparison of “heads”.  Christ is head of the church.  The church is the anointed Body.  (Matt 16:18)

Indeed, the Spiritual House, those who make up the House are the Living Stones. For this we had talked about before, despite the corrections being made in your response.

But was missed was what Jesus entrusted to the Church, something of which a majority of the mainstream Christians are against and or attempt to change because they deem what is entrusted to be too burdensome. Which seems to be the case with most.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

He is the only Head of all within the Body, that is comprised of both male and female.  He is the spiritual “husband” of the Body/Bride.  The comparison of this husband/bride arrangement is made to a physical marriage of a man and a woman. 

As is so, as well as it's direct connection to that of the church and the family structure itself, therefore, when it comes to religious authority, such a position is not in the woman's grasp, despite that position being for the men, woman can help out in the church itself even though they cannot be leaders.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

This doesn’t give room for any man to acts as go between for Christ concerning anointed woman. Concerning ALL women.   Though, you believe so, just as the governing body believes so.  Yet, they also believe they are head over every anointed one, male or female, since they must fully obey the wicked slave, and their own “body” of elders that they “govern” over,  built outside of God’s intentions.  Matt 24:48-51

And yet Jesus entrusted the Church to bind and loosen, of which given to the Disciples and they to their students, who in turn not only become followers of the Christ, but Disciples themselves. Unless you have forgotten what has been said about the Spiritual House?

Yes, we can speak of anointed women, but the focus here is leadership in the church itself and the structure itself and what God has set in motion and what the Christ, the head of the church entrusted to those in his inner circle.

The belief has nothing to do with the Jehovah's Witnesses, in fact it predates even them, the belief is solely based on the early Church structure and the very indication of it that comes from he Bible. This is why I stated that even True Christian women will not agree with you on several points, and they themselves no leadership of authority in the church is not a role for them, nor any role that gives them authority over men.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

We have only one saviour, Christ. We are only to be Christ's servant, not man's.   For anyone to stand between Christ and another, and expect obedience to their "decrees", they take on the role of saviour, and the role of judge.   The governing body has successfully accomplished this.

Yes, we do have one savior, but at the same time our savior gave instruction and entrusted various things to the people of the church which is still practiced into this very day by only some.

This is the very reason why many people speak of the early church 2,000 years ago, as some would say and hold to a high importance of what it entails.

No one is standing between the Christ, people are merely defend His church and what His church is structured, as if our history is ever so clear, but the mainstream think otherwise.

In the end it has never been proven and or practiced, by Jesus' church that women are to be religious leaders of authority, therefore we shouldn't be in a position to alter such things.

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5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Galatians 3:28 New International Version (NIV)

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 

This same Paul here said very advanced and almost innovative thought. He abolishes all the social divisions that are characteristic of the society in which they lives. I primarily think of Jewish society and religion as an indivisible part of the Jew people. Eliminates the difference on the basis of nationality. Eliminates the difference of status on a social scale caused by position or origin in society. Eliminates differences caused by belonging to sex, gender. (It not surprised if some talking how First Christians was the Religious Communist with the ideas of a classless, egalitarian society that shared their land and their other property and similar.)

I know of what he is talking about, I know what being one in Christ implies, but we clearly do not see Paul addressing religious leadership for women by means of the head of the church. This is what you fail to see because both you and Witness are not that knowledgeable of the church.

The irony here is what Paul said in verse 29, for we already know about how you view Abraham in his dealings with the ruler of Gerar and the Egyptian Pharaoh, to speak of this passage that is in connection with the Abrahamic Seed only makes you seem hypocritical of what has been talked about, to you, several times before, even recently.

We are indeed One in Christ, and our union allows both him and God to dwell in us - should we accept. In Jesus' case, it means taking in and accepting of what he had entrusted the church to do, of which you were in opposition of for several months, if not more. So if you really adhere to this passage, this verse, mind you, you best take a good look at everything that came from you in the past up to now.

That being said, none of which you stated in your attempt at an exegesis has no resolve to the main issue at hand regarding church leadership and authority of the church, and the funny thing is, you have not taken into account of whom these letters of Paul were present to, it should be obvious.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why these 3 stumbling stone are connected and put "in one bag" with clear  answer on problems that this 3 listed items causing till today?  

And what point are you trying to make when there was no resolve to begin with, Srecko Sostar? You are trying to mesh 2 things together to create a Frankenstein here as is of what was stated by you above.

One of the reason why it is what they say,  people lack in the history of the church, of which is said by both men and women and what they say is indeed true, and were we see this from both you and Witness.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When he talking about "you are all one in Christ", he undoubtedly talking about New Religious System of that NEW SOCIETY that try to forming New Congregation. Not New "Jew Congregation". Of course they are not been able to escape all obstacles and traps which drag them into the old system of worship of God and the religious hierarchy that existed in Jewish religion for so many centuries. They were not so strong to cut all ties with old things. Because "new light" that shined on them, for short time, was to much new for them to be that something what would be possible to incorporate into something new formed. And that they themselves did not know how this newly-found faith should actually look like in structure, in the relationship between the members, between the sexes.

The Church had already existed prior to that message being posed, in fact, the Epistles/Letters were sent to these Churches. Such has existed since God's Temples were still movable Tabernacles and the hierarchy has always remained the same. It is only later on centuries after, people began to and wanted to change the church, for they put into application that of what the world adheres to inside the church, therefore religious leadership and authority has been changed to include women when the Bible has never made the indication, as they say, it is as if they see it as God making Eve first and Adam second.

Apostle Paul was not talking about a New Religious System, learn your history and understand the facts, nor would I diminish what is read to be called a new society, it is more respectful to say those of the Spiritual House. This Church had both the Jews and the Gentiles and both of them believed in the same truths and accepted it, therefore, they are one in Christ because they understand what the truth entails, and they knew what was to be done to profess the truth by means of spreading the gospel.

There was no old system either because it has been as it ever was since creation of man. They never cut ties with old things, despite being of the New Covenant, as I last recall, the Jews and the Gentiles still profess Shema and other commandments.

Actually they are aware, have you not read the the other portions of Paul's letters? Or are you simply picking and choosing at this point without foundation to claim?

As I said, if the churches had already existed which is pretty much the predecessors of the Temples, how is it that they did not know? After all, you are aware of what a Temple is, judging by your other response elsewhere an there is no question you know what a Tabernacle is and or a Tent of Worship. Nothing has changed, Sostar, the Jews and the Gentiles are one in Christ and are part of the Church, they in turn being part of the Spiritual House, for they are the stones that make the house.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Perhaps Paul was highly "Inspired" while he dare to talking about such taboo theme - male and female are equal to the such point, to such level,  that sex/gender even not existing in Congregation of God, not existing as question, as principle, as stumbling stone, as difference, as controversy.

I concur, the focus here is the church, although male and female are of the church, both being one in the Christ, it does not change how the church has always been structured from the very beginning, unless you choose to avoid and ignore what Paul had stated in regards of Adam and Eve as you have done with what he said of Abraham?

Paul was inspired, but a lot of people seem to paint Paul as an enemy when they find out Paul does not agree with them. Paul was a good person and believed and followed the Christ, he knew of Jesus' God hence why he affirmed the ancient Law of the Jews to the Corinthians in full respects, in addition to alluding to the Law in his other letters, something of which those who claim Jesus to be God avoid saying because it breaks their doctrine.

Other than that, the Church will always be the Church. What Jesus had entrusted will remain despite some seeing it as burdensome. The structure of leadership and authority will remain the same for if anyone takes into account what was build 2,000 years ago they would not be ignorant of the facts and the information as well as the amount of evidence that is spoke by those who read and understand their Bibles. That being said, both men and women have roles in the church, but only one gender has a position of leadership, regardless all persons are under the head of the church for they are in union with him.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So they mixed old thoughts with new thoughts. Paul is one example. We find his commands to congregation about "silenced woman" and on other hand with full confidence he talking how "we are all one an equal".   :))

In terms of women not being in a position of leadership, hence why it speaks of silent women (ever bothered to check the references? No, you never have to begin with). Paul also shows us that he cares for women who do the works by means of teaching in the ministry as of which was presented in detail above. We clearly do not see anywhere Paul being okay and or making an indication to women leadership in the church, unless you are forgetting the madness  at the Temple of Artemis, that is, of which some like to bring up to make a case.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Here is context of verse i mentioned in the beginning, to see "whole picture" how he ( and I/me, hehehe) came to unity of sexes :)) because we are all: 

You have not put anything into context, this is also the same verse I mention to you that you were clearly not a fan of, so is this being hypocritical and or ignorant here?

Also it is a surprise to me you would include verse 29, you were not the type to be a fan of Abraham last I checked.

Other than that, your twisted exegesis in regards to how the church and the family was structured cannot change what is as hard as a diamond. It is no surprise Witness agrees with you here, the both of you need to learn, understand and educate yourselves on the history of the Church itself, learn of what the Bible says rather than yield upon your own understanding, other than that it is the Great Commission discussion over again but this time in regards to women and church leadership.

Despite combined efforts by the both of you, none of you cannot change anything in regards to God's Purpose and Will, through Jesus, to the people of the Church, who in fact have both God and Jesus dwelling in them.

That being said, unity is known, yes, but to twist what the has been entrusted, what has been built on to the foundation, only makes you exposed to be a person to adhere to the accursed, like I told you before, Srecko Sostar, our church fathers would be spinning in their graves, for what you, and even now, have stated is beyond baffling, therefore, I encourage you to learn, should you accept it, I encourage you to do the research, should you accept it. I even encourage you, if you are someone who travels, to go to those who read their Bible, perhaps speak to of such, and they will tell you, should you accept it.

But know this, you do not accept what is in the Bible, mainly in regards to the church, you will be the one to make answer for attempt to change what is highly sacred and what the Christ had built and what he is in regards of the church.

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