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IS IT PROPER FOR A WOMAN TO SPEAK, TEACH AND PROPHESY?

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7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
  • The Head of the Christ is God
  • The head of the Church is the Christ
  • The head of the Man is the Christ
  • The head of the woman is the Man

I wasn’t going to do this… 

Hmmm,

I remember reading it like this.  And "man" wasn't capitalized.  (I'm really getting a good picture of how you perceive women)

“But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” 1 Cor 11:3

Do you know that the Greek meaning for “man” ( anēr)   can be  “used generically of a group of both men and women”?

What if it was meaning this:

“But I want you to know that the head of every group of both men and women is Christ…”

Would scripture support this?  Gal 3:28; 2 Cor 11:2; 1 Cor 12:23,26  

    Hello guest!

Does any male religious leader have higher authority over a woman than the man she is married to?  Line ten “christian” men up in front of a woman; one of them being her husband.  Who should she listen to?  Which male “head” should she choose?  Obviously, she would most likely listen to her fleshly husband.

BUT, if that wife decides she must leave the so-called “christian” religion she is in, realizing it preaches  “another Jesus”, should the husband stop her from doing so, since he does not share that opinion?  Since she realizes the difference between a truth and a lie, and is unable to spiritually “live” the lie any longer, should she do what her heart tells her and turn to Christ for guidance?  Of course!  She doesn’t need permission from her fleshly husband to heed Christ’s words of Matt 11:28.

Since she has chosen to listen to Christ, he is her only spiritual Head.  Her fleshly husband has no authority over her spiritual well-being. No religious leader has authority over her decision to serve Christ the way she feels is proper.  That is between Christ and herself, although she can certainly share what she learns, since marriage mates are “partners” and would work out their religious differences, giving respect to each other’s spiritual needs, as well as fleshly needs.

So, the Head of the anointed “church”, is ONLY Christ.  True spiritual “leaders” who are members of the Body, would be chosen by Christ, not men.  If it happens to be a woman, who’s going to argue it?  Her husband?  😊  The  true spiritual guidance given by a man to a woman is much different than practicing unrelenting authority over her, such as Watchtower’s “shepherds”, who have been the given ability to judge anyone as unfit for God’s Kingdom, if that person rejects this falsely given authority.

The fleshly wife is to be a “helper” to her husband, just as the Bride of Christ will be Christ’s helper, recognizing he is still their Master.  2 Tim 2:20,21

God’s word tells us,

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”  Rom 6:16

We cannot serve two Masters.  Our fleshly marriage must be in balance with our commitment to Christ.  We spiritually serve only God and Christ.  If we, male or female, put obeying men above Jesus, we will succumb to devoting our time, energy and resources to men (and what they desire to build), instead of Christ.  Matt 6:24

Col 1:18 - And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 Anointed women are part of the body of Christ, the church.  They are not sitting on the bench or in some other zone you have created mentally,  but are equal in all respects, to men.

Mary

Acts 1:12-14 - Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk[

    Hello guest!
] from the city. 13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Acts 2:1-4   When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Do you think there was chance they were prophesying?  I do.   Please, don’t limit the ability of God, His Son Jesus Christ, and the gift of Holy Spirit.

Now, I am done.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

I remember reading it like this.  And "man" wasn't capitalized.  (I'm really getting a good picture of how you perceive women)

Granted that I have to keep going back and forth all the time I do not have much time to make corrections, copying and pasting as I go and I spoke of the verse from memory, so clearly I am not trying to prove anything by means of punctuation and pronunciation, simply stating what the passage says from memory , and if you want to play that card, you had shown before a total disrespect in confusing Heavenly Jerusalem with Earthly Jerusalem, for confusing the two, by some is seen as a violation.

I am not belittling and or putting women in a bad light, I am simply stating what is true by means of the church and what the bible says and it would seem even the truth you are against, especially as to what Paul says.

That being said, men and women have roles in the church and only one of them have religious leadership in the church, under the Christ. It is not a matter of favoritism, it is not a matter of who is better than who, it is a matter of how and what the structure of things are within the church and only the church and what such derives from, hence the mention of Adam and Eve.

Wanting to accuse now? I can tell you this so you know exactly of how I view my fellow men and fellow women, the very culture which my people  I abide by would literally scatter your perception, for we do not do things like you in the west do for we are not of such a life, for us it is family, peace, truth and all that is good for what is good, headstrong in safeguarding our people, even in the face of danger and disaster, even when the US president disgraces us, it does not hinder us because we do not take the side of such a man or anyone who is of that fold, and most importantly, we have a total high regard and care God and his Word and read it constantly,  all of such has been taught  by the time we could walk, in my case, it was taken a step further, learning a Languages, history, Christology and a list of other things and so forth, so I suggest you not make an attempt to cash check you know you cannot cash in this regard because the way I see it, you do not really take into account fully of what the Bible says, what God's Word says, the very reason you are being informed in what the church and family is and what it is based on, according to Apostle Paul.

Anyone man or woman who dishonors another among my people's culture is seen as a disgraced one, as it is said in my language, Personne disgraciée. For what we see here no one is disgracing women here, what is simply being said is a biblical truth and nothing but that truth as well as correcting what your current view is which is clearly of mainstream Christendom, and it is evident that you never dwell outside anything in regards of the history of either the Bible or the church and this has been seen.

It is also clear that I will never, ever break and tweak the Bible for the sake of Traditions of men of which mainstream Christendom professes (mainly as to what is spoken of in this topic in an attempt to make changes to what is said), so if you want to make such a bold claim, I allow you try, it will not help you, nor will it help Sostar because apparently you guys have no idea of anything to say about the church, granted of how the both of you already view the Great Commission.

But I can already see such shifting to those of the Priesthood when we are talking about those of the church who has the abilities to bind and loosen, such ones of authority under the head of the Church, the Christ.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you know that the Greek meaning for “man” ( anēr)   can be  “used generically of a group of both men and women”?

Granted I am capable of reading and speaking as well as understanding words and expressions in both Greek and Hebrew, it is not unknown to me. In the manuscript and Greek Strong's that is a 435.

QUOTE: with a reference to sex, and so to distinguish a man from a woman; either a. as a male: Acts 8:12; Acts 17:12; 1 Timothy 2:12; or b. as a husband: Matthew 1:16; Mark 10:2; John 4:16; Romans 7:2; 1 Corinthians 7:2; Galatians 4:27; 1 Timothy 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6, etc.; a betrothed or future husband: Matthew 1:19; Revelation 21:2, etc.

Outline:

Quote
  1. with reference to sex

    1. of a male

    2. of a husband

    3. of a betrothed or future husband

  2. with reference to age, and to distinguish an adult man from a boy

  3. any male

  4. used generically of a group of both men and women

So it would be better to tell me something I do not know rather than attempting to and or thinking I do not know what is already known, so that will not do you as much.

so let me tell you something you may not know about this word, it has an occurrence totaling up to 216 with it appearing inasmuch as around occurs 193 verses in the Greek New Testament alone.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

“But I want you to know that the head of every group of both men and women is Christ…”

According to the scripture, it does not say, so do not add to the text as is the very reason I brought up Deuteronomy 4:2.

But I see what you are doing with the verses, you are attempting to mix the structure of the family and the church with that of being one in Christ - Salvation (the common game that mainstreamers like to play when they want to put opinion and feeling into a believe that is never professed); as you can see, there is no time for games, only the Bible, in my case play little, read more. That being said, as already mention,  it speaks of those who are able to have salvation, this is not the first time someone has attempt this, for I have ran into people of the mainstream who tried this for over 8 years now because they attempt to add traditions of men and political based ideas and opinions by means of feeling into the church so that women can hold some office of authority.

Also looking that up only points back to you and nowhere else, for that claim is unheard.

You were right to speak on maidservants and Prophetesses, but you show yourself to be completely blind on the church structure itself, even when taught by someone who has studied the church itself for a long, long time, you, still remain think otherwise of what the Bible says and clearly you expect people to not see that, well you are mistaken, as if every time I spoke of the church it should have been known to you by now of someone who is and willing to speak this historic truth of a structure based on that of God's view in terms of creation, after all, it was addressed by Paul (for I had mentioned the verse strongly on page 2), not you or Sostar even dwell upon what is said by Paul in his other writings, mainly that of First Timothy and Romans, let alone application of context.

But it would seem the both of you like mixing that of Salvation, being on in Christ with how the church's hierarchy layout, addressed by Paul even, is, for there is a reason as to why Paul said what he said about our first human parents, what can be said is he was not dwelling on culture, but rather, creation and how he equaled that to that of the church and family, for it is in direct connection with God's view and what Jesus entrusted the church to do. The mixing of Pentecost into the mix was as well a total failure in this sense let alone referring to someone who was not called and or mention to be a Prophetess.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Does any male religious leader have higher authority over a woman than the man she is married to?  Line ten “christian” men up in front of a woman; one of them being her husband.  Who should she listen to?  Which male “head” should she choose?  Obviously, she would most likely listen to her fleshly husband.

This just shows you lack knowledge of the church and in defense of what you cannot even defend.

Men who hold a religious leadership in the church, as seen in biblical accounts are in a position of authority to everyone of that church, a good example is when Apostle Paul had to deal with those who were followers of Artemis and how critical he was in this regard. Paul even speaks of position and roles of men in the church and it is clear here he is referring to men of which can hold some sort of religious office and authority in the church, and clearly the early brothers of the church, some were married and some were not. Women on the other hand, of that church, as others who are not in a position of authority listen to those who are in the lead, but they too help the church by means of ministry and teaching, but never have any woman in the Greek New Testament is spoke of and or seen to hold a religious leadership, for we only see this position held by men, granted with what is said by Paul in scripture.

And now we see here, by this response, you didn't do yourself a favor to even study and or look this up, and yet we see you dwell upon your own opinions and feelings in order to not adhere to what even the Bible says, or perhaps you are among those in the mainstream who is in total opposition of Apostle Paul, for those I have dealt with too in the past, even in person?

2 hours ago, Witness said:

BUT, if that wife decides she must leave the so-called “christian” religion she is in, realizing it preaches  “another Jesus”, should the husband stop her from doing so, since he does not share that opinion?  Since she realizes the difference between a truth and a lie, and is unable to spiritually “live” the lie any longer, should she do what her heart tells her and turn to Christ for guidance?  Of course!  She doesn’t need permission from her fleshly husband to heed Christ’s words of Matt 11:28.

You can speak on the modern day faiths all you want, but the focus here is what the Bible says of the early church, for I see here of what you are already attempting to do for the resolve, it is not going to help you for even people today, even women will speak of the church as I have because they know the biblical evidence and history, some even know The Didache by heart, for these women are true women of the church, women of Christ because compared to you they do not try to twist in their own reasoning to justify something that totally different. This is why I invite you to actually read up on the history rather than dwell on your own feelings, perhaps send question to the one you adhere to, the one you follow and maybe you will find an answer in regards to the church, but most likely even the view of this person shows.

That being said, the church, as said before, cannot change, nor can it be tweaked, abandon and or molded into something else. It has been in place for a very long time an the early Church, since one of you mentioned Matthew 16, was always and will forever be what it is, and those who adhere to it are in the right vs. the mainstream who makes ANYONE a pastor nowadays when the bible makes it clear.

As for lies and true, what is true is what has always been said, and I agree with Paul on every regard, especially as to his example of using creation, that of Adam and Eve in references to the church, to avoid this truth only proves one to be in the wrong here.

There is no other Jesus also, there is only one Jesus. For this one, the Christ, is the Son of God, he came from God and has returned to him, only soon to return again.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Since she has chosen to listen to Christ, he is her only spiritual Head.  Her fleshly husband has no authority over her spiritual well-being. No religious leader has authority over her decision to serve Christ the way she feels is proper.  That is between Christ and herself, although she can certainly share what she learns, since marriage mates are “partners” and would work out their religious differences, giving respect to each other’s spiritual needs, as well as fleshly needs.

So what would be the point to bring up Matthew 16 when clearly there is a direct references to what Jesus had entrusted the church with? To say otherwise is like gambling with an Agnostic at this point.

Christ set an example for us and he is the head of the church, no one else but him is the stone that is the foundation of the church and that stone cannot be broken and or changed. Apostle Paul was right to what he said and will always be in the right no matter how some Christians now a days paint him as the villain.

Religious leaders of authority are in charge of teaching, in the church, helping out, in the church, and other things such as offering question to what needs to be answered and a list of other things, most importantly, what they teach must be accurate to what the Bible says and by means of what is says that must be practiced, and I have already spoken about the role of women and it is silly to stress it time and time again only for such ones to make a defense that is indefensible followed by depleted sources.

The irony here,a s mention before, even true Christian women who abide by what the scriptures say know exactly of which is being stressed about religious leadership, and they also know despite not being in a position of authority they are not left out for they too have roles to help the church even though they cannot lead in the church, for they to are for the Christ. And all members of the church have respect for one another and their neighbor, and obviously if anything is accursed, something will be said.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

“Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?”  Rom 6:16

And? From slaves of sin to slaves of God, those of righteousness (15-23). This is in regards to an Epistle to the Romans when Paul was addressing those who are gripped by Sin, but a path for them to become servants of God is possible by means of that very gift God gifts, that is, Lord Jesus Christ, and by means of this gift God gives, in turn, Eternal Life,hence that of which is spoken of by Paul and everyone in the churches afterwards, Salvation.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

We cannot serve two Masters.  Our fleshly marriage must be in balance with our commitment to Christ.  We spiritually serve only God and Christ.  If we, male or female, put obeying men above Jesus, we will succumb to devoting our time, energy and resources to men (and what they desire to build), instead of Christ.  Matt 6:24

Granted that Jesus gave the church the ability to bind and loosen, he had everything set in motion for a reason 2,000 years ago when the foundation was put in place.

Once again, using a verse in order to compete with that of the structure of the church, of which Jesus' church operates, or that of what Paul had already professed regarding the church.

For if those given who had been entrusted with what is suppose to be done to the church simply abandon it, what do you suppose the position they will be in with the head of the church himself?

Clearly no one wants to be in that position.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Col 1:18 - And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Tell me something I do not know, granted I stressed this verse over and over here mainly to the very person here who thinks Jesus is God. You should have put in bold Firstborn from the Dead, for that was spoken of in the church as well and is in connection with Jesus being of the first fruits, of the Spiritual House, etc.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Anointed women are part of the body of Christ, the church.  They are not sitting on the bench or in some other zone you have created mentally,  but are equal in all respects, to men.

This is already known, but the focus, as said over and over and over again is the church structure, the very reason Apostle Paul was speaking in terms of not culture, but creation in regards to the church's structure and that of the family. I do not see the issue here of which you are trying to avoid.

If you speak of Paul you say everything he has said, this includes the church, itself, if you want to talk and discussed about the Spiritual House, we can do that, but I recall I have corrected you on this also several times.

If I believe women did nothing why would have I mention roles of women who actually can minister, can teach and the like, women having the gifts and so forth? But I guess it is what they say of people in the US at times, because one follows the bible seriously, they see things differently.

The reality is women are just as valued as men, but never would a women,  attempt to break the church structure, ever, as I said, there are women who would say the same thing as me, those who are not of mainstream Christendom and when I traveled I have met them an their families, so please, if you want to stress the idea that I would betray my own in our culture of respect, I allow you try, I won't also let you add on to the bible as you have already.

Indeed, equal, but according to God's view, what is said of Jesus, and of Paul and Church Fathers, the roles of which both sides have within the church is as it will ever be, granted if you take what Paul stated in 1 Timothy seriously.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Mary

Acts 1:12-14 - Then the apostles returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day’s walk[

    Hello guest!
] from the city. 13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Yes, I know of Mary and I stressed Pentecost as well as Acts 1 and 2 over a dozen times here, especially on Bible Discussion.

But as you can see, your response of saying Mary is a Prophetess, when such is never mention of her to even be one, has been proven false. Therefore, do not add to the text, for in doing so, you only paint yourself to believe what is accursed within the mainstream Christendom, on second thought, never have I seen anyone say Mary is and or called a Prophetess, for if Modalist and Trinitarians wouldn't dare say such, that is how you know someone is clearly in the wrong, and you make such persons look like saints.

Like I said, Mary and other women had roles in the church, they can minister, they can teach, it does not stop them from praying or following God's Law, for both men and women work together under Christ, all of which, under God and have the utmost respect for God's Purpose and Will and will not make the attempt to change it, be it the church, be it those of the Spiritual House, or those of Priesthood (for such ones claim only a certain race is of this group, which is false). You clearly do not see Mary as a Prophetess here, nor do you see her and or any woman leading a church in biblical times - they were members of the church, handmaids, servants, etc they help out, they minister and the like. Mary was indeed a good woman of faith and is highly respected, as I had told Sostar before, just like Sarah, Mary is seen as a Hero for she carried the burden on protecting, teaching and being their for Jesus as he grew up, she even taught Jesus the Law, and Jesus spoke of and taught of his human mother with a high regard, so if anyone were to say otherwise of her will be corrected.

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you think there was chance they were prophesying?  I do.   Please, don’t limit the ability of God, His Son Jesus Christ, and the gift of Holy Spirit.

Granted with what took place after Pentecost and what the cross-references say , of which I had already made mention of in First Corinthians, as of what was quoted before: 1 Corinthians 12:8, 10

  • 1 Corinthians 12:8, 10 - [8] For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, [10]  to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

In short, for everything and all points to the spreading of the gospel, as well as the Messianic Age.

They spoke of the Messianic Age and as they spoke of it, they taught and converted people, bringing them into the church, baptizing them and so forth and their students, now turned disciples, do the same thing that is to come, clearly you do not see them predicting events that will lead up to it, therefore, the Great Commission is in place, the gospel for what is written of what is to come, which includes the good news gospel as seen in the Four Evangelicalist accounts that record Jesus' ministry.

Why would I limit God for speaking of His truth that come from the bible? Dare I speak in full blown out context it would not put you in a good light for what is already said is enough evidence of what we see by means of the church's history. I am not  and will never limit God in any way shape or form so do not make the accusation before it will end up hurting you in the end. you already hurt yourself by comparing a Prophetess to a handmaid when we know clearly by means of the Strong's such are not even the same. Nowhere would I limit Jesus because I am and will always be in high amounts of defense in regards of who the Son of God is and will defend the Christ as I have done for nearly 2 decades, defend him from those who teach falsely of who he is and or make an attempt to speak of him being a God when Jesus is clearly the Son. Nor do I speak ill of the Holy Spirit, as some attempt to claim it is a person when it is not, I speak truth of the Holy Spirit because among other things, this one is number one on needing to be defended for people have such ill views and or doctrines in regard of the Holy Spirit that is of minor to major absurdity ever seen, mainly when it comes to dealing with those who have the most brazen view of the Spirit.

Therefore, accurate knowledge of things is the only thing I care about, even if at times detail and strictness must come into play but in the end, it is important that such ones know the truth and nothing but the truth, it is also important for people to not dwell on false information, of a bible passage, verse, historic account, a faith, a teaching, a tradition, and things on the outside when it comes to correcting those who dwell on conspiracy, those who believe in aggressive behavior to find resolve, those who are wanting to make something seen as illegal, legal, and a list of other things, for I have been around a lot of stuff, technically as some would said, molded by fire, if you will. So if any deceit is spoken, it will be corrected, regardless of who said it and where it came from. I'd say a Caribbean proverb on this matter, but I will say it for a strong response later on.

I invite you to read up on the early church because clearly you lack it and show you confuse that of the church hierarchy with salvation. For at least learn something rather than dwell on your own understanding because as of right now, historic accounts and biblical evidence stack up against you. You may not be a person who goes to church or whatever, but you be wise to not think otherwise of the early church and the early Christians on how they did things.

For if you truly knew of the Holy Spirit and what took place in regards to Pentecost, you would not be ignoring the context and references of what the people did, including Mary.

That being said, I guess I'd have to teach both you and Srecko Sostar in full detail of what is being stressed here, so expect here soon, you've only seen what was addressed in page 2 of which both of you really have to read upon and understand, perhaps what a Prophetess is, of which is also mentioned on page 2.

Next time, do not confuse Salvation with that of the family and church structure, it is not a good move to make, granted when one knows what a verse and a passage speaks of in context, references, evidence and or other. But as always, a lot of people ignore references anyways, hence why it is brought up to correct such persons.

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Very long ago, there was one JW sister. She died. She had a husband and a son. Her husband also died. Her son is alive, he is now cca 70 years old and he is a longtime elder. That sister, his mother, Zorica, was anointed. What I remember, about her very well today, is that how she always spoke with a voice that was the voice of authority. It was the teacher's voice, who giving lessons. After she made a comment in the kingdom hall, no one, but no one nor the elders added their comment or correction to her comment.
Perhaps she was a person of such a character, and did not adopt the "spirit of gentleness and silence" while sitting in the KH :)))) expected for JW sisters, mothers, and women. But she spoke with the authority of the one who is equal or even above the elders position.
I was always wondered how her son, elder, felt because they lived in a house that was her and her husband and been in the same congregation.

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4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I am not  and will never limit God in any way shape or form so do not make the accusation before it will end up hurting you in the end. you already hurt yourself by comparing a Prophetess to a handmaid when we know clearly by means of the Strong's such are not even the same.

Could not a Prophetess also be a housemaid? 

I assume they have to work for a living.

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@Srecko Sostar Comparing of what you had told Gone Away in regards to your former affilation with the faith, can you be more specific of the year at least in estimate? Is the son is now 70 years of age (2018), that means he was born around the late 1940s, so counting back from 2018, it would be the year 1948, around the time of World War II, also around the same year several of this events were taking place as listed here: 

    Hello guest!

So who passed away first, the husband or the wife? For if she had a husband, perhaps the husband was the first to go before she did.

As far as I know, JWs, who are still fresh Bible Students has and always have been this way since the Great Awakening compared to mainstream Christendom, as far as I see it, of the Priesthood or not, we do not see this woman, Zorica in this narrative, a religious leader, let alone the one leading the church. She can speak, she can teach and make disciples, she can minister, she can question and answer, but we do not see her as a religious leader whatsoever. Women can make comment to a sermon in the church, they cannot give a sermon to the church, so therefore anything of the like, does not add truth to your claim of authority, simply an role in play by means of this person of the church she resided in.

It is not an adoption of "spirit of gentleness and silence" as you claim (once again you've proven to not even read for context), for if that was the case, why would she be doing the things she is doing? In fact, why would those in the 1st century, women, do what they were doing? The remark of silence, as addressed by Apostle Paul, was in seriousness to those who followed Artemis, and resided in the area for the Temple of Artemis was in the same area Paul was at the time, and women of Artemis were usually the ones to show up at the church and such ones remain silent.

She spoke yes, but where is it she held an office of authority in religious leadership of the church? I say this time and time again and every time you and Witness will come up with something else to say, even going as far as to go the route of comparing church/family scripture with that of verses that speak on Salvation, for last I check Salvation has nothing to do with religious leadership yet the both of you bring up such verses, and in your case, you are not a fan of Abraham due to what can be seen in our last discussion, of which I addressed the One in Christ passage to you and your response is vastly different on what you are and or attempting to convey here, again, this is coming from a guy who has told me God is not the type of person to care should one change their gender.

And what of her son? You were just talking about the woman, a destined one who clearly never ran and or lead the church in that faith, in fact, you never see any women of the faith lead a church, but a fail-safe situation is as it ever was for all try to abide by what the church actually is, as did our church fathers, as is Apostle Paul.

I leave you with this, for a woman who is anointed, also what year she became chosen, how long she has been in the faith and when did she die, granted her son was born around the late 1940s since you said he is now 70 years of age or is this another one of your mind games as you have done with the sse hydro venue, of which you swept under the rug when corrected? Surely if this woman was of high importance in your former faith, as you stated to Gone Away, you would have shared this information, and since it is the 1940s, this information would have been easily brought up, granted of how religious folks were back then, before and after World War II.

 

As I said, despite not having a religious leadership of authority, women could teach and minister outside, as well as outside of the church for they are and can be ministers, as seen with the example of Apollos, they are teachers of what is good and their efforts help out the church as seen in Titus 2:3-5, as stated before, 3 times. The woman was not to exercise authority over a man of authority in the church for she does not and cannot lead the church.

 

I suggest you read what is said and go learn the history of the church, as I told Witness, there was a reason why Apostle Paul spoke of Creation itself when referring to the church.

 

And next time, as said to Witness, do not try to mix passages together and expect to me in the right, but it is kind of a low blow to equal of what is said with Salvation of being One in Christ. granted I was critical of this with you before, and of Abraham's Seed. Give Galatians 3:29 a read to ring some bells.

 

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4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Could not a Prophetess also be a housemaid? 

I assume they have to work for a living.

I wouldn't say housemaid for Prophetess were not such ones to clean homes of other people, rather, some of them were deemed ones in maidenhood, meaning who had not have had any sexual relations with a man and or virgins, but some are not. Some examples would be Prophet Isaiah's wife, although unnamed, her she was a Prophetess, for this was professed by Isaiah. She and her husband had children together. Next we have Anna, the one who met with Joseph and Mary. She is The daughter of Penuel, of the Tribe of Asher, and she was married until she became a widow when her husband had passed. We also have evil ones who are for brazen conduct who originate, we can take example of what is said of Ba'laam and Jezebel and how those replicate them, in this case, how such ones replicate Jezebel, which seems to be the case with one church mention in the Bible.

 

Other than that, everything spoken of is indeed true, but it would seem people nowadays do not like History, or that of even social studies when it comes to things of old, History of the Church 101 was clearly an elective that was no selected this semester for such ones and therefore, their knowledge in this domain is lacking.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

you are not a fan of Abraham

now i am in dilemma. To be fan of you or of Abraham? :)))) 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

or is this another one of your mind games

pick for yourself what you like more

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

can you be more specific 

i think how you are not entitled do hear more privileged information then I already said  in public, details about. So i will not tell a "lie", "half truth", "white lie" or "misleading information", but "be in silence" and suffer consequences (verbal persecution) of such decision :)))))   

stay well!

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53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

now i am in dilemma. To be fan of you or of Abraham? :)))) 

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As I recall, which was recent, of what was said when I defended Abraham and what the Promise of that God had made to him. Apostle Paul spoke of this the very reason such is in direct references to being One in Christ what it implies and why Abraham, who was not killed for what he did and he kept alive, even his wife, as I said before, was seen as a hero, for she complied with her husband of whom she called lord in order for God's Promise to continue into the days of David well into the days of both Joseph and Mary and what come to have the Prophet, Jesus, of whom is of that Seed along with the heirs, Those One in Christ.

I never asked you to be a fan of me, for of such I do not care, I simply care for the Bible, the History and anything pertaining to such as well as God's Law, and I care for those who are oppressed and or other as well as those of my own people who do suffer. Other than that, I simply corrected you on Abraham and you responded by saying something as if what he had done was a selfish act when it was his reasoning and his knowledge of the land that caused him to be in such a position to begin with, and this is not the first time, and now when we have a verse of which you quoted that speaks in direct references to the Promised Seed in attempt to use salvation vs. what Bible spoke on about the church, is obscene nor have you really poured the actual context itself, but at least you make the effort in knowing what One in Christ means but fail to see that it is direct in what is spoken of Salvation for both men and women, no talk about religious leadership in anything he has said in that passage alone.

You also didn't show much kindness to the truth about Adam and Eve, even when corrected in that domain also.

And please, if you really cared about Abraham, what you said many times before would not have been in an attempt to be against him, now that, is being hypocritical.

With that of which amounts here, even when it comes to the church itself, you are as you always have been and choose to be.

Therefore, what Jesus has entrusted, cannot be changed. He is the Firstborn out of the dead, The Firstfruits of the New Creation, the Cornerstone of the church of which he is the foundation of, he is the head of the church and has given he ability to the church to bind and loosen, for the people make up the church and under him they abide by this and they abide by not only his command, but in total religious servitude in God is Father of whom such ones give praise and service to.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

pick for yourself what you like more

The truth and nothing but the truth, and always the truth that comes from the Bible and the History of the early church in Christendom and nothing but this truth. At least such is accurate, in this sense rather that fabrications like hydro or that of thinking a registry is an indication owning something when it is pretty much nothing more than a institution census.

That being said, I have told you, just as I have told Witness, go do the research of the History of the Church, and learn it, mainly in God's view, what Jesus entrusted and what Apostle Paul had said, for he spoke of creation for a reason regards to how the church has been structured as well as the family.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

i think how you are not entitled do hear more privileged information then I already said  in public, details about. So i will not tell a "lie", "half truth", "white lie" or "misleading information", but "be in silence" and suffer consequences (verbal persecution) of such decision :)))))   

Speaking the truth is not entitlement nor is a privilege. There are many people around the world, even those of whom I met, those sick, those poor, those lost, who make the effort to actually read and understand their Bible, for as I had said to you before, better to be close to and or have the truth rather than be far from it. If you do not even know the history of the church, let alone the history of the Bible, how can you speak to such persons? How can you refute the accursed? And the list goes on.

That being said, you have and always have come upon as a cryptic individual, mysterious at times, but at the same time even when corrected, you still dwell on feelings and opinions rather than what the Bible says itself, and when something has been pointed out as a lie it vanishes and should it be brought up for such of what you profess ends up being false and or untrue, other times a showy nature of not understanding something and thinking differently of what is written, even outside of the bible somethings mention by you is seen as unfounded, and well, we know how that turned out and in some situation you continue to egg on this and show some flaws in some responses, and you tend to contradict yourself at times, which is evident.

But it seems even when someone speaks the truth, for you, and majority of others, it goes into one ear and leaves out the other.

That being said, clearly you have not read the brief detail of what was stated in page 2, therefore, it shows that someone people are either ignorant or unaware of the history of the church in ancient Bible times and such ones will try and attempt to use Salvation passages (of which had seen and refuted nearly 2 decades now) to make claim to something that is unrelated.

To make it brief so you better understand:

The structured is, and has been and forever will be as it were. Adam was created first, Eve came later on and is second, therefore we have the first man and woman. The family had always been Structured as man, woman, child, which in turn when the churches were a thing in biblical times, the church, physically, had all persons, young and old, but because the head of the Christ is God for he had made Adam and Eve, and that the Christ is the head of the church, we see what Paul had stressed in regards of said structured in terms of leadership in the church under the Christ. From religious leaders of authority, to servants, ministers and teachers, to members and converts and we see Paul even speaking of men of authority and to which position such ones take in the church.

Even though women cannot and will not be religious leaders, their role in the church is not significant, for it still impacts the church because the church is the people and that community of people build themselves up. They help in the ministry, they teach, they question and answer, they pray and a list of other things, women were included in the day of Pentecost as well for they too take part in the gospel preaching and converting people for baptism in the church and such ones uphold God's Law with total seriousness, hence why the head covering is very important. Both men of any age, sex or race are ALL under and in union with Christ because Salvation is not for one person or a nation, it is for all, hence the New Covenant, for we know because of Abraham, Jesus came to be for he was of this promise, and his heirs, those selected for Priesthood that is neither male or female and until he returns, His church of which He has built will remain intact by those who hold true to Scripture and not try to change it in any way shape or form for any many who speaks differently and or teaches and practices something else that, let him be accursed.

Know this, real Christian men and women know this, and if we want to those some more logs into the blaze, Jews know this, Muslims know this, Agnostics know this and a list of other people, whoa re we to change what God has set up in terms of his purpose and will? The answer should be, no one is to do such a thing.

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12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Could not a Prophetess also be a housemaid? 

I assume they have to work for a living.

Paul; an apostle, prophet, leader, teacher, healer, and comforter. (1 Cor 12:27-31) You’d think being a tentmaker would have gone to his head. 

 

 

He called himself a “bondservant of the Lord” (Gal 1:10; Rom 1:1; Phil 1:1…) which, by the way, is similar to Strong’s definition for “menservants” in Acts 2:18

 slave, bondman,  metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men

“handmaidens” in Strong’s:  a female slave, involuntarily or voluntarily.  Bondmaid. One who worships God and submits to him.

Mary called herself “the maidservant of the Lord”.  Luke 1:38

 

For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed.  Luke 1:48

Acts 2:18 - And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.

These “servants” belonged to Christ; both men and women, as bondservants of the Lord.

You were bought with a price. Don’t become bondservants of men.  1 Cor 7:23 WEB

Though the Lord is on high, Yet He regards the lowly; But the proud He knows from afar. Ps 138:6

God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.  James 4:6

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Could not a Prophetess also be a housemaid? 

I assume they have to work for a living.

Offering Alms to Monks

The first Buddhist monks did not build monasteries. Instead, they were homeless mendicants who begged for all their food. Their only possessions were their robe and begging bowl.

Today, in many predominately Theravada countries like Thailand, monks still rely on receiving alms for most of their food. The monks leave the monasteries early in the morning. They walk single file, oldest first, carrying their alms bowls in front of them. Laypeople wait for them, sometimes kneeling, and place food, flowers or incense sticks in the bowls. Women must be careful not to touch the monks.

The monks do not speak, even to say thank you. The giving of alms is not thought of as charity. The giving and receiving of alms create a spiritual connection between the monastic and lay communities. Laypeople have a responsibility to support the monks physically, and the monks have a responsibility to support the community spiritually.

....

It is a common practice in Zen to make food offerings to the hungry ghosts. During formal meals during sesshin, an offering bowl will be passed or brought to each person about to partake of the meal. Everyone takes a small piece of food from his bowl, touches it to the forehead, and places it in the offering bowl. The bowl is then ceremonially placed on the altar.

Hungry ghosts represent all of our greed and thirst and clinging, which bind us to our sorrows and disappointments. By giving away something that we crave, we unbind ourselves from our own clinging and neediness to think of others.

source: https://www.thoughtco.com/offering-food-buddhist-rituals-and-traditions-449750

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@Srecko Sostar Granted we are talking about Prophetess, this is unrelated. What I can say, for someone who has visited Thailand several times, monks indeed take up Alms, but since the change of the times, they take and receive other things, especially the ones you find in Maha Sarakham.

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