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TrueTomHarley

Let us Appreciate Brother Lett

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6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

fear-mongering

Definitely bad, oppressive, a tool of the insecure. There is a tendency for some to try to lever on this basis. Seems to be a kind of convoluted version of what Peter said at Matthew 26:33.

However, I do not think Paul and Barnabas were fear-mongering when they said “We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations." Acts 14:22, or Paul when he said to the Hebrews, "In your struggle against that sin, you have never yet resisted to the point of having your blood shed." Heb.12:4.

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

"obedience to men"

Certainly, Peter counseled vigorously against abject "obedience to men" at Acts 5:29: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.", all the more notable as coming from one who displayed the opposite behaviour at times.

However there is a balance in this matter too, as the same Scriptures counsel children to be "obedient to your parents" (Eph.6:1), slaves to "be obedient in everything to those who are your human masters" (Col.3:22) all faithful Christians to mark those who are "not obedient to our word through this letter" (2Thess.3:14), "to be obedient to governments and authorities" (Titus 3:1); and, finally, to "be obedient to those taking the lead among you" (Heb.13:17).

So when a b(B)rother says obeying instructions in what is of little consequence now is good practice for obeying instructions regarding what might be big consequences later, I don't feel blackmailed by some sort of bogey-man tactic really. I just feel that this is someone giving me a bit of good advice on how to turn a bumpy ride into something a little smoother. But then, that's just me. Everybody has their own way of dealing with and reacting to these things it seems. 

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

a new kind of burden that will not appear to reflect the true spirit of Christianity. 

I agree entirely with avoiding the creation of a fear-mongered, man-pleasing attitude.

I endorse fully the need to engage in reflecting Jesus' manner in refreshing our fellow worshippers, working to lighten their "burdens" wherever we can.

But at the same time we need to balance the fact that it was Jesus who instructed a heightened level of alertness in "keeping on  the watch", an avoidance of everyday distractions in maintaining a personally calibrated "whole soul" level of activity, and a full appreciation of the "torture stake" element involved in our acceptance of discipleship. 😊

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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Many sincere brothers now are quick to defend the mistakes of the past by saying that the number of little ones who were stumbled was actually a good thing. We've seem multiple comments on this forum that make that claim. As the misguided logic goes, with 1975, for example, it was a kind of test that only stumbled those who were serving Jehovah with a date in mind.

so called "SIFTING", very popular terminology in one period of organization used to explain described phenomenon and some other situation when Company caused mass (in greater or less numerous scale) disapproval of some parts of members.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But more people will be disheartened over time without being able to put their finger on exactly why.

excellent observation!

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

the book God’s Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached. This 416-page book, published in 1973, contains vital information that is even more apropos now than when it was first released.

ohh yes, in fact so many informative ideas and interpretations and double, triple time/way of fulfillment. So complicated to understand what in fact author want to teach. Pictures, parables, yesterday, today, tomorrow,  transmitted meaning and true meaning ....In fact not understandable, only way is to learn by memorization and repeat the text ... and play that you understand :)))))))

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But his idea was that it would somehow make people appreciate the Society, its place in our time, and therefore raise the level of activity................(Proverbs 13:12) 12 Expectation postponed makes the heart sick,. . .

It is also written in some apocrypha :)))))))  

A generation of JW and those who will be JW goes and next  generation of JW and those who will be JW comes,       But the earth remains forever.

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14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Heh, JW letters was addressed to Russian Government, Mr Putin, Medvedev and all other political characters that are in "position to changed" Court decisions. So, how can you considered that as Neutral colored letters? When involved at least two parts of governing,  political and judicial power. 

How do you define Christian Activism, Political Activism, and Civil disobedience?

What you're implying is what? That, Jehovah’s Witnesses send their letters to the Orthodox Church? At some point, making sense reflects upon the one making the argument.

Just like in 1975. It was a self-inflicted incident perpetrated by overzealous individuals that misunderstood the Watchtower message. Therefore, there was NO! Test of faith within the organization. However, there are still confused individuals that continue to mislead the public just as any former witness does to continue a known conspiracy theory. So, there is no need to defend the Watchtower with occurrences that were out of their control.

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5 hours ago, Grey Reformer said:

Just like in 1975. It was a self-inflicted incident perpetrated by overzealous individuals that misunderstood the Watchtower message.

I was there, and paying attention.

I know better.

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On 8/16/2018 at 12:07 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

MEANWHILE ... the Brothers and Sisters in Malawi were being tortured and killed because Bro. Knoor, who signed an oath of allegiance to the United States Constitution, before God and man, refused,  when there  was only ONE political party in Malawi at the time, to  let them buy a 25 cent National ID card. (foreigners were exempt from that requirement).

I lived through those times, when it was all going on, as contemporary news !

I REMEMBER IT !

I lived through that time too, but I did not pay a lot of attention to it as I was too young.  However, a friend helped me to dig up a WT from 1975 that seems to make a distinction between an oath binding one to a person, and an oath to a country.

Here are a few excerpts:

......."Thoughtful Christians weigh the matter in the light of Bible principles before taking any sworn oath. In doing so, they find that some oaths are Scripturally unacceptable. For example, in the days of the Third Reich, every German soldier was required to take this oath: “I swear by God this holy oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to the Führer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, and that as a brave soldier I shall be prepared at all times to risk my life for this oath.” A person dedicated to Almighty God cannot bind himself unconditionally to a sinful human, for Jehovah exacts “exclusive devotion.”...........Hence, despite severe persecution, faithful Christian witnesses of Jehovah in Germany would take no oaths binding them to Adolf Hitler......

..........A true Christian, then, would not take an oath that would involve him in the controversies of the world or that would subject him unquestioningly to the will of another human. But what if a nation required that such an oath be taken by those desiring to become citizens? Could a person dedicated to God take an oath of that kind with mental reservations, reasoning that sex, age or other factors would make it unlikely that what had been sworn would ever be required? The individual must decide, but it would not be Christian to make a false oath of any kind, even if refusal to do so resulted in being denied the rights of citizenship.........

........A citizen of the United States of America who desires to travel abroad will find the following oath on a passport application: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations, or purpose of evasion: So help me God.” If an applicant finds this objectionable, he is permitted to strike this oath from the passport application, and he will not be denied the document on that basis"...........

Awake 1975/7/22 page 27-28

Interestingly this was written during the presidency of Nathan Knorr. 

edit:

In addition this is what the proclaimers book  ch 29, page 674 had to say:

In Malawi, there is only one political party, and possession of a party card indicates membership. Although the Witnesses are exemplary in paying their taxes, in harmony with their religious beliefs, they decline to buy political party cards. To do so would be a denial of their faith in God’s Kingdom. Because of this, late in 1967, with the encouragement of government officials, gangs of youths throughout Malawi launched an all-out attack on Jehovah’s Witnesses that was unprecedented in its obscenity and sadistic cruelty. Over a thousand devout Christian women were raped. Some were stripped naked before large mobs, beaten with sticks and fists, and then sexually assaulted by one person after another. Nails were driven through the feet of the men and bicycle spokes through their legs, and then they were ordered to run. Throughout the country their homes, furniture, clothing, and food supplies were destroyed.

Bellow are the translated contents of the card. I cannot verify the correctness of the translation as I do not speak Chichewa

image.png

 

image.png

 

    Hello guest!

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21 hours ago, Gone Away said:

I wish someone who actually through those times as a participant rather than a bystander could give us a comment.

I wish the same....

I also wish someone could explain what the difference was between what happened in Malawi versus what happened in Mexico. But this is completely off topic here. I apologize @TrueTomHarley but this is JTR's fault, he started it

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    • THANK you so very much really appreciated what you do less you and have an nice day and nice week.
    • I wish the same.... I also wish someone could explain what the difference was between what happened in Malawi versus what happened in Mexico. But this is completely off topic here. I apologize @TrueTomHarley but this is JTR's fault, he started it
    • There is a lot of turmoil in Gonzalez's country of Nicaragua. And the local hero has become a villain to some fans back home, because of his support for the Nicaraguan President. Fuentes plans to show his support for the people of Nicaragua by carrying the country's flag to the ring on fight night. "I have heard that that there is no money and no employment, that there is tyranny in Nicaragua, in the same manner that it was present in Mexico at a certain moment. It was difficult here, that is why I understand the people of Nicaragua. I know there are killings. How hard it must be for a country with six million inhabitants and so many have disappeared. I hope to God to win the fight and dedicate the triumph to the people of Nicaragua," Fuentes said. "I know they are having a hard time, that the government is hard. I understand the situation that they are now living in, that's why I'm with Nicaragua. Roman comes from the bottom, he knows what the shortcomings are and despite that he does not support the people of Nicaragua, but instead he's in favor of the President and the (para) military that is mistreating the people. I think Roman is a Christian and I think God is going to charge him the bill. "God gives you a talent, offers opportunities and accommodates fights, but when you do wrong God scolds you, because he knows how to reprimand. I think Roman has done wrong with turning away from his people and instead being in favor of the Government for their personal benefits. I accumulated 600 messages in the last two days. People [from Nicaragua] are writing to me: 'Moses we are with you,' 'Moses do not leave us alone, put the flag of Nicaragua up high.' Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
    • I lived through that time too, but I did not pay a lot of attention to it as I was too young.  However, a friend helped me to dig up a WT from 1975 that seems to make a distinction between an oath binding one to a person, and an oath to a country. Here are a few excerpts: ......."Thoughtful Christians weigh the matter in the light of Bible principles before taking any sworn oath. In doing so, they find that some oaths are Scripturally unacceptable. For example, in the days of the Third Reich, every German soldier was required to take this oath: “I swear by God this holy oath that I shall render unconditional obedience to the Führer of the German Reich and people, Adolf Hitler, the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, and that as a brave soldier I shall be prepared at all times to risk my life for this oath.” A person dedicated to Almighty God cannot bind himself unconditionally to a sinful human, for Jehovah exacts “exclusive devotion.”...........Hence, despite severe persecution, faithful Christian witnesses of Jehovah in Germany would take no oaths binding them to Adolf Hitler...... ..........A true Christian, then, would not take an oath that would involve him in the controversies of the world or that would subject him unquestioningly to the will of another human. But what if a nation required that such an oath be taken by those desiring to become citizens? Could a person dedicated to God take an oath of that kind with mental reservations, reasoning that sex, age or other factors would make it unlikely that what had been sworn would ever be required? The individual must decide, but it would not be Christian to make a false oath of any kind, even if refusal to do so resulted in being denied the rights of citizenship......... ........A citizen of the United States of America who desires to travel abroad will find the following oath on a passport application: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations, or purpose of evasion: So help me God.” If an applicant finds this objectionable, he is permitted to strike this oath from the passport application, and he will not be denied the document on that basis"........... Awake 1975/7/22 page 27-28 Interestingly this was written during the presidency of Nathan Knorr.  edit: In addition this is what the proclaimers book  ch 29, page 674 had to say: In Malawi, there is only one political party, and possession of a party card indicates membership. Although the Witnesses are exemplary in paying their taxes, in harmony with their religious beliefs, they decline to buy political party cards. To do so would be a denial of their faith in God’s Kingdom. Because of this, late in 1967, with the encouragement of government officials, gangs of youths throughout Malawi launched an all-out attack on Jehovah’s Witnesses that was unprecedented in its obscenity and sadistic cruelty. Over a thousand devout Christian women were raped. Some were stripped naked before large mobs, beaten with sticks and fists, and then sexually assaulted by one person after another. Nails were driven through the feet of the men and bicycle spokes through their legs, and then they were ordered to run. Throughout the country their homes, furniture, clothing, and food supplies were destroyed. Bellow are the translated contents of the card. I cannot verify the correctness of the translation as I do not speak Chichewa     Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
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