JW vs the Bible

[Jesus.defender]

JW Belief is first, the Bibilcal position is in bold

1. Christ is God's Son and is inferior to him. Christ is God. He took on the form of man to come to earth. John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16
2. Christ died on a stake, not a cross. Christ died on a cross. John 20:25, Matthew 27:37, 27
3. Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans. Christ life was paid as a ransom for sinners Matthew 9:13, 1 Timothy 1:15
4. Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. God will create new heavens and earth and new physical laws. God's people will be removed from earth. Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, 1 Thess. 4:16-17
5. The human soul ceases to exist at death The spirit of man goes to be with God *Ecclesiastes 3:21, Ecclesiastes 12:7
6. Hell is mankind's common grave. Before Christ, all went to Hades, after Christ only non-believers *Psalms 9:17, Matthew 23:33
7. The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God. All people who confess Christ as Lord and Savior are born again *John 3:3, John 3:3-7
8. Christians must give public testimony to Scriptural truth. Christians must give public testimony to the gospel of Jesus Christ Romans 1:16, Romans 15:19, 1 Corinthians 1:17
9. The greatest name is Jehovah. The greatest name is Jesus Christ Ephesians 1:20-22, Philippians 2:9
10. Man does not have a spirit. Man has a spirit *Ecclesiastes 3:21
11. We are to worship Jehovah only. We are to worship Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:13
12. Jesus second coming occurred invisibly in 1914 and His kingdom was established in heaven. Jesus will return physically to earth and all alive will see Him as His kingdom is established on earth Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7
13. The greatest name is Jehovah. The greatest name is Jesus Christ Ephesians 1:20-22, Philippians 2:9
14. Christ is Michael the Archangel. Christ is not an angel, but God. Hebrews 1:13
15. Christ was first of God's creations. Christ is co-eternal with God, and as such was not created Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, Hebrews 13:8

[Space Merchant]

@Jesus.defender The Deserter has returned.

This has nothing t do with Jehovah's Witnesses, but rather, The Septuagint, The Oldest and Most Reliable Source of which the Bible originates from and it is known by ALL persons who know of and study it, me included.

Once again, you shot yourself in the foot, purposely, and actual Textual Criticism defeats you before you can even take a step.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_verses_not_included_in_modern_English_translations

http://www.biblebookprofiler.com/The_Forgery_of_I_Timothy_3_16.html

I've also covered the first one, with ease: 

Now on to the other stuff,

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ is G?od's Son and is inferior to him. Christ is God. He took on the form of man to come to earth. John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16

 

GOD/THEOS (????) was added into the text in the 16^th century when the original manuscripts (The Septuagint) does not say TEHOS (????) at all, therefore, 1 Timothy 3:16, as re-written in the KJV is seen as both a forgery and a grave error. For the FACTS even shows us that The manuscript evidence, and the immediate context, shows the King James Version (KJV) reading was not authored by Apostle Paul.

As seen on Biblehub, THEOS (????) is nowhere to be found: https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_timothy/3-16.htm 

THEOS (God/????) Greek Strong’s: https://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm 

Your next problem is Apostle Paul later revealed the mystery who had manifested, Christ Jesus, of whom CAME FROM GOD who has been REVAELED, according to Paul:

Quoting myself:

Quote

And there is yet more which reveals this verse was corrupted. Paul here is talking about the mystery. In 2 Timothy 1:8-9 he says:

[8] Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospelby the power of God, [9] who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

This is nearly identical to what he says in Romans 16:25:

Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages

 

In Ephesians 1:9-10 he says:

[9] making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ [10] as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Or Ephesians 3:9:

and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things,

Or Ephesians 5:32:

This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

Or Ephesians 6:19:

and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel,

Or Colossians 4:3:

At the same time, pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ, on account of which I am in prison—

For, the mystery of the ages is Christ himself revealed to us by God. He tells us in Colossians, "the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col. 1:27, see 1 Cor. 1:30; 2:7). God's mystery appeared in flesh and Christ is that fleshly manifestation of His mystery.

On to the next one,

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ died on a stake, not a cross. Christ died on a cross. John 20:25, Matthew 27:37, 27

 

Stauros is an upright Pole, with no cross-beams, this upright Pole is also Tree-Like according to evidence by means of the Scriptures and historical Roman information. You can look up the Strong’s here: https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4716.htm 

The irony here is the practice and usage of the Cross came about 400 years AFTER JesusÂ’ death, furthermore, Maryas (The Torment of Maryas) predates Christ Jesus and even he himself was crucified on an upright Pole aka Stauros.

FACT: Since it took approximately 400 years for JesusÂ’s crucifixion to become an acceptable public image, scholars have traditionally believed that this means the cross did not originally function as a symbol for Christians.

The Torment of Maryas:

• https://itsartalicious.wordpress.com/2015/03/12/the-torment-of-marsyas-greek-sculpture/ 
• https://www.louvrebible.org.uk/index.php/louvrebible/default/rewrite/oeuvre-47/The-Torment-of-Marsyas-,-Cross-or-stake? 

I dare you to look at those verses in Greek and you can see for yourself, there is no cross. If you want crosses, I suggest you head over to the Tammuz fan club.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans. Christ life was paid as a ransom for sinners Matthew 9:13, 1 Timothy 1:15

Because that is the truth, Jesus gave his life, in regards to prophecy, to free us from sin and death, giving mankind a chance to actually seek amnesty and be of God’s favor, hence the Life and Resurrection. It gives people a chance to learn who God is and who his Son is, be obedient to what God’s Word says by means of the Scriptures and the like, and those who refuse or those who do not listen to the Word will perish, for there is no middle ground, you are either for life or for death – the choice is for you to make.

Plus the Bible says several times God is incorruptible, and is not like us men or a son of man.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. God will create new heavens and earth and new physical laws. God's people will be removed from earth. Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, 1 Thess. 4:16-17

 

New Heavens and New Earth is symbolic. As for the Earth, as in New Earth, if you actually read the references, it is in regards to all human authority being replaced by GodÂ’s authority under his Kingdom, of which he places Jesus in charge of (remember ZechariahÂ’s vision), furthermore, Psalms 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:4 makes it abundantly clear to us of the Earth itself.

You can put dirt and grim on a diamond and get rid of the dirt and grim with water, the diamond is still there and is not destroyed by water.

For you to think the earth itself will be literally replaced with a New Earth, when GodÂ’s promise says otherwise only shows you no nothing of the Bible, but if you want to accept the idea of literal New Earths, I am sure the Comic Book stores are happy to help your fill for any of the latest DC or Marvel Comics of New Earths literally replacing an actual Earth.

Have some sense.

None of those verses you point to state people will be moved to a New Earth, Truly, Truly, I say on to you, of you, the idiocy within you shows.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The human soul ceases to exist at death The spirit of man goes to be with God *Ecclesiastes 3:21, Ecclesiastes 12:7

 

Humans are not Spirits nor is an Afterlife. This belief stems from Immortal Soul Doctrine and the practices of Sorcery and other things, Spiritism to the extreme.

When a man dies, he dies, and he remains in Hades until the Resurrection. We already see examples of this before in the Bible. The Soul is the Life and or the person, so when the lights go out, it stays out and goes nowhere.

We see nowhere in the Bible that anyone experienced some afterlife situation at all in the Bible, we can talk about Lazarus or the little Girl, the both of them never spoke of being somewhere while dead, for in death, when you die, you die, thus everything with you perishes for good, only until the Resurrection, such ones, powerless by the earth, according to Isaiah, will return to Life again.

You also show yourself to not believe and or understand what The Life and Resurrection even means or when Judgement will take place.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Hell is mankind's common grave. Before Christ, all went to Hades, after Christ only non-believers *Psalms 9:17, Matthew 23:33

 

Because Hell is not the Lake of Fire, nor is it a place of enteral torment. For if Hell was truly the Lake of Fire, why must The Lake of Fire be cast into the Lake of Fire as seen in Revelations 20:14? Or perhaps is King David, a man of God, he himself in a fiery torment, for after all he made his bed in Hell (Psalms 139:8), or maybe all persons who have died was in Hell alongside David, for Lazarus and the Little Girl didn’t come back to life shaken in fear for a place of which God watches eternally as people burn over and over again. This doctrine you follow is the very reason why people think God is not a God of Love, furthermore, God himself, in the Old Testament, The Torah even says the following about Fire Torment: I did not command or decree, nor did it come into my mind— (mind you, God said this not once, but a few times when it comes to fire torment).

If you get the giddies from people burning forever and ever, you seriously need help, perhaps seek out your nearest Psychologist, for it is persons like you who turn people away from the Bible with the silly doctrine of fire torment.

That being said, when we die, we all go to Hades, be it Sheol or Hell, whatever floats your boat and holds your fishnets.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God. All people who confess Christ as Lord and Savior are born again *John 3:3, John 3:3-7

There are 2 groups of the New Covenant. Those selected for Priesthood, the other being those having Eternal Life. Regardless, both groups confess the Christ and they confess on to the one who Resurrected the Christ, that being, God YHWH himself, who saves.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christians must give public testimony to Scriptural truth. Christians must give public testimony to the gospel of Jesus Christ Romans 1:16, Romans 15:19, 1 Corinthians 1:17

Yes, and Christians should be very careful not to adhere to and or teach false and accursed teachings, kind of like the one you are professing, which is deemed to be false, we must not forget about your response to Anna a while back which was not only wrong, but shows you barely read the Bible for context, therefore, persons like you can easily mislead a person and or masses of persons easily.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The greatest name is Jehovah. The greatest name is Jesus Christ Ephesians 1:20-22, Philippians 2:9

 

Ephesians 1:20-22 speaks of The Christ being at the right hand of God, while Philippians 2:9 speaks of Jesus not taking plunder to be equal to God. God’s name YHWH (Yahweh/Jehovah) is a great name as is spoken of to be The Personal and Divine Name, the Proper name of the God of Israel: https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm | https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=esv&strongs=h3068 

Another factor is Jesus’ name [Jesus] means Yahweh/Jehovah is Salvation (Yah/Jah saves for short), evidence of the Strong’s even shows us too: https://biblehub.com/greek/2424.htm   | https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=esv&strongs=g2424

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Man does not have a spirit. Man has a spirit *Ecclesiastes 3:21

 

Psalms 146:3, 4, Ecclesiastes 3:19, Ecclesiastes 9:10 says otherwise, even Jesus in John 3:13:

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

So much for calling yourself “Jesus Defender” if you do not even accept what Jesus himself had said.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

We are to worship Jehovah only. We are to worship Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 5:13

 

Religious Worship and /Servitude is to God and only God himself, for even Jesus said this when being tempted by Satan. Yes, these verses have the word worship in it, but never do we see anyone religious worship the Christ over God himself. But it is no surprise that someone such as yourself would confuse the word worship to think it is religious worship. May I ask, when Lot worshipped the Angels, or when Sarah worshiped Abraham, why keep quite on such things?

Look up the word worship and do not be a fool hen it comes to the actually meaning, usage and unique usages: https://biblehub.com/greek/4352.htm 

I even spoke of such before:

 

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus second coming occurred invisibly in 1914 and His kingdom was established in heaven. Jesus will return physically to earth and all alive will see Him as His kingdom is established on earth Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7

None of this verse speak of a physical presence. The only thing of which we can see is the signs of the times and when Jesus does return he cannot and will not be seen.

The only thing that took place a while back was Satan had been cast out of Heaven, and Jesus became a King.

The verse even tells you “The Sign of the Son of Man”, furthermore, verses like John 14:19 gives one a clue that the return would be invisible.

For if we, as humans, should be able to see Spirits and even Satan himself or perhaps go into space and see GodÂ’s angels, but this is not the case, the same can be said of the Christ. We should be focused on the Signs as well as the Signs of the Son of Man himself.

For the Christ was resurrected as a spirit person (1 Peter 3:18). He soon went to heaven and sat at GodÂ’s right hand (Psalm 110:1). Later on, he, Jesus, was brought before God, The Ancient of Days, who granted Jesus authority and power to rule over mankind. Therefore, when Jesus returns, he does not come back as a human for such a time had already passed, but rather, The King would come back invisible (Daniel 7:13, 14).

He wonÂ’t be alone either, his angels of whom he will lead will be with him. He will destroy wicked people but grant eternal life to those who accept him as King, read for context Matthew 25:31-33, 46.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

The greatest name is Jehovah. The greatest name is Jesus Christ Ephesians 1:20-22, Philippians 2:9

Copy and Paste, Copy and Paste, as I told you before, you like to Copy and Paste. Your silly ignorant exegesis has already been dealt with, Deserter.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ is Michael the Archangel. Christ is not an angel, but God. Hebrews 1:13

And yet Paul calls Jesus an Angel in Galatians 4:14. Jesus is also spoken of not as a Prophet, but a Messenger (Angel) of whom as sent by God and is called the Word for speaking GodÂ’s Word (Shaliah Principle). Jesus being Michael is not a new idea, in fact, this belief was present around the early Second Century and so forth.

After all only one person cast Satan the Devil and his Demons out of Heaven and only one person warned the demons of their incoming sentence of Eternal Destruction, for the warning and the battle in Heaven cannot occur twice, for such events only happened once.Think really hard about that and do the research.

19 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

Christ was first of God's creations. Christ is co-eternal with God, and as such was not created Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, Hebrews 13:8?

Isaiah 9:6 is of Jewish customs, naming a child or place in representation of whom they represent, therefore, Jesus is not God, but is spoken of to be of God. Read up on Jewish Customs and Laws and learn something.

John 1:1 does not prove anything either when the cross-references points to verses like Deuteronomy 18:18, and another reference telling you who was indeed the first of GodÂ’s creations and who was the one to be The Firstborn out of Death, there is only one person associated with such, and that is Jesus.

Hebrews 13:8 does not prove anything at all, just tells you Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. If Jesus says his only God is the Father, even going as far as to commit Shema, surely Jesus has not changed on this very fact mentioned.

 Unless you want to explain to the class of how someone who is "co-eternal" is called Firstborn out of the Dead and The First of the Fruits, these 2 things Trinitarians like yourself cannot answer and or speak of because it goes against your own Doctrine when the Bible speaks of such, perhaps you are among those who sees Paul as a lair, for Paul's comment about Jesus being like that of an Angel was easily avoided by you.

Consider yourself burned and rinsed because you made a fool of yourself, once again, you make both a clown and a mine look far more superior at this point.

That being said, this is simply Original Christian beliefs vs that of a Trinitarian puppy who does not really no much about his Bible. - that puppy being you. Therefore it can be said, Ye knoweth nothing of the Scriptures.

[JW Insider]

@Space Merchant, I think you are a bit confused about the Septuagint is.

9 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

The Septuagint, The Oldest and Most Reliable Source of which the Bible originates from and it is known by ALL persons who know of and study it, me included.

Almost every point in that portion I requoted from you is debatable.

12 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

GOD/THEOS (θεός) was added into the text in the 16^th century when the original manuscripts (The Septuagint) does not say TEHOS (θεός) at all, therefore, 1 Timothy 3:16

The Septuagint has nothing to do with the original manuscript of 1 Timothy 3:16. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the original, older Hebrew manuscripts of the "Old Testament." Timothy is in the "New Testament."

[Space Merchant]

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Almost every point in that portion I requoted from you is debatable.

The thing here is, it is considered the oldest and most reliable source, as well as to what connects to it, and it is indeed known by all, even to those of other faiths, well, those who try to take in the information if possible. If there is an error you see here, by all means you can response for when I speak of the Septuagint, I speak of it as well as anything in regards to the 4th century in connection to it.

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The Septuagint has nothing to do with the original manuscript of 1 Timothy 3:16. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the original, older Hebrew manuscripts of the "Old Testament." Timothy is in the "New Testament."

To some degree it does, mainly to what we have which is in connection with The Septuagint itself or 4th century sources, for it is the only reason as to why I said what I said, putting them in the same category as the oldest and most reliable source, which is indeed true compared to the 16th century or Textus Receptus based changes that did not originate with any of the older sources as seen when comparing some Translations to the KJV/NKJV. The problem here is because the verse in question states GOD/THEOS when in reality it does not say, some people are quick to think of Jesus as God when in reality, this is not the case,  the thought of such makes it very confusing and odd, even to the one who professes such, one of the reason why the some people, even today will push this on to others believing this is actual truth when one can realize for themselves GOD is not included in the verse itself, and it is , irritating when met with KJV-Onlyist and Trinitarians seem to champ that of the 16th century over the oldest source itself.

The verse in it's original form only says Who/He, some translations being equal to that at the same time in respects to the Strong's, but nowhere do we see the word GOD being used unless it is a TR or a something similar to a 1245, and even some revised Translations omitted GOD from the verse, and for good reason.

[JW Insider]

On 8/29/2018 at 9:59 PM, Space Merchant said:

The thing here is, it is considered the oldest and most reliable source, as well as to what connects to it, and it is indeed known by all, even to those of other faiths, well, those who try to take in the information if possible.

This still doesn't seem to speak to what the Septuagint actually is. The writing of the Hebrew Bible (OT), in Hebrew, was generally completed by the 5th century BCE, (the 400's BCE). The most important parts of the Septuagint (LXX) were completed in the mid 200's BCE, and some parts as late as the 130's BCE.

A lot of what the Septuagint translators did is considered very accurate. In many cases it was perhaps more accurate, (closer to the older Hebrew originals) than the work of the Masoretic scribes, who claim to have carried on a tradition of maintaining accurate copies of the original Bible manuscripts from the original Hebrew.

But unfortunately we don't have any of those original Septuagint manuscripts from the 200's BCE. And we only have fragmentary portions from the second and first century BCE. We don't really have any effectively complete Septuagint translations until the 300's CE, the fourth century CE. That's as much as 600 years after this Greek translation was first made! And 800+ years after the original Hebrew OT was complete.

On the other hand, we have the "Dead Sea Scrolls" including both fragments, and in some cases, full or nearly complete scrolls of some Bible books in Hebrew evidently going back into the first century BCE, up to as late as 70 CE. (Some of those Hebrew scrolls may date even into the second century BCE.)

So what does that do to the claim that the Septuagint is the oldest and most reliable source? Remember you said:

On 8/29/2018 at 12:09 PM, Space Merchant said:

The Septuagint, The Oldest and Most Reliable Source of which the Bible originates from and it is known by ALL persons who know of and study it

The oldest parts of the Bible originated in Hebrew, and the oldest known Hebrew manuscripts and texts go back, hundreds of years in some cases, prior to the oldest known manuscripts of the Greek translation, the Septuagint. In a few cases, such as with the 'Great Scroll of Isaiah' this first-century Hebrew scroll effectively matches the text that the Masoretes had maintained even 1,000 years after that Isaiah scroll. (I use the words "effectively matches" because even though there are hundreds of differences, they are usually small and don't change the meaning significantly.)

Of course, the OT quotations found in the NT almost all came from the LXX, so it was considered accurate enough to be the translation used in the NT. There are places where it is undoubtedly more accurate, closer to the original Hebrew manuscripts, than those Hebrew manuscripts we currently rely on. Some of these points were discovered when the Qumram scrolls (Dead Sea Scrolls; DSS) came to light. There are even some fragmentary portions of the Greek LXX among the mostly Hebrew DSS.

But many portions of the LXX are highly questionable, too. Jeremiah is fully 1/7th shorter in the LXX. That's a difference of about 7 chapters worth of content missing from dozens of different places around the book, plus hundreds of other wording differences. Also the LXX contains many portions and passages interspersed within the OT that most religions, including JWs, do not consider part of the Bible.

As you probably know, like nearly all Jewish and Christian denominations, the WTS has chosen to publish the OT of the NWT Bible based only on the Masoretic text, and does not rely on the LXX as the correct text when there are differences between LXX and the Masoretic text. This might be surprising, since much of the Masoretic text is known only from about 900 years ago, and yet we know much of the LXX from about 1,700+ years ago. But even the DSS, known from closer to 2,000+ years ago is not often used in the NWT when it corrects the Masoretic text.

[To simplify, I greatly rounded some time estimates, edited out a lot of details about Alexander and the spread of the Greek language, which portions of the OT were in Aramaic, etc., to cut this down to a more readable size.]

[JW Insider]

@Space Merchant, More importantly, the claim that is most confusing is one you are apparently still trying to hold onto for some reason.

I said:

On 8/29/2018 at 12:23 PM, JW Insider said:

The Septuagint has nothing to do with the original manuscript of 1 Timothy 3:16. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the original, older Hebrew manuscripts of the "Old Testament." Timothy is in the "New Testament."

And you replied:

On 8/29/2018 at 9:59 PM, Space Merchant said:

To some degree it does, mainly to what we have which is in connection with The Septuagint itself or 4th century sources, for it is the only reason as to why I said what I said, putting them in the same category as the oldest and most reliable source,

This is still completely false. There is no degree to which the Septuagint is related to 1 Timothy 3:16.

You are right about 1 Timothy 3:16 not having the word "God" in the original, just as nearly all NT scholars would agree. I am only wishing to correct any misunderstanding your statements might cause with respect to the nature and value of the Septuagint.

[Space Merchant]

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

@Space Merchant, More importantly, the claim that is most confusing is one you are apparently still trying to hold onto for some reason.

I said:

And you replied:

This is still completely false. There is no degree to which the Septuagint is related to 1 Timothy 3:16.

You are right about 1 Timothy 3:16 not having the word "God" in the original, just as nearly all NT scholars would agree. I am only wishing to correct any misunderstanding your statements might cause with respect to the nature and value of the Septuagint.

I see it now when I rechecked my notes, I was comparing all oldest sources into one category, and had noted the Septuagint on my original list having the Vaticanus noted to be in connection with the Seeptugaint as with 2-3 other codex of which I pulled from a very old source, in regards to such not having GOD/THEOS, under it I have B (not listed), Aleph, A, C, and D, 2 others not listed and we have the Patristic Witnesses.

In the correct listing in it's original place it is Which and or HE, but never does one see God until very later on when such was added to the text itself, and because of this, Trinitarians will go out of their way to paint Jesus as God when in reality he is not. The next problem they face is of whom Paul revealed in writing afterwards, for if a Trinitarian makes the claim Jesus is God, they also go out of their way to address that Paul later on spoke of the Christ, therefore, they have somehow got themselves 2 Jesuses, which will cause problems for them.

I pulled this from my notes after go back in all my writings and was going about a specific codex.

 

The Manuscript Evidence   Manuscript Common Name Date Text B Codex Vaticanus ca. 300 Does not contain 1 Timothy Aleph Codex Sinaiticus ca. 350 who was manifest in flesh A Codex Alexandrinus ca. 450 who was manifest in flesh C Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus ca. 450 who was manifest in flesh D Codex Claromontanus ca. 550 which was manifest in flesh   Peshitta Coptic Ethiopic Sahidic   which was manifest in flesh   Gothic   which was manifest in flesh    Patristic Witness Quotations of 1 Timothy 3:16 in the Fathers Author Reference Date Evidence Comments Ante-Nicene Church All Writings 70-325 A.D. None Not quoted by any writer before Nicea Arian Controversy Church All Writings 325 - 381 A.D. None Not quoted by any writer until late in the fourth century