1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

because of the 1975 fiasco, the Watchtower would no longer print such enlightenment.

:)))) such enlightenment 

....but "life-saving information" have to come from WT Society and have to be spread among members despite 1975 err. If they will not do it again (to warn people about imminent end and danger) how and when will people go to basement and hide?? :))

[Srecko Sostar]

http://www.theocraticcollector.com/1969_-_Awake.pdf

Awake 1969, May 22, pages 14,15  (302 and 303/768)

Author of article, under authorization of Top Spiritual Leadership, "prophesied" how world will end in next few years.

Now and  today you @BillyTheKid46 made claim how GB will never again do the same mistake? :))) And we doing good if we believe you? :))

 

21 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

What can be said about 1975 that hasn’t been said about 1975? The “fact” people keep misrepresenting what happened about 1975 in a sense that was made clear by the watchtower publication was the objective to a clear narrative about the 6000 years that

 

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Don't give me any crap about "it didn't happen".

1975 is what didn't happen. 

 

[Witness]

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

This is why you never understood the timeline of a prophetic event. Of course BC607 and AD1914 hold a significance. 1975 brought upon humanity a distinction with that prophetic line. This is also a reason why the Watchtower stopped advertising any prophetic events after 1984.

I believe they even mentioned it in some publications that modern witnesses believe because of the 1975 fiasco, the Watchtower would no longer print such enlightenment. However, after 1984 it would be to those that actually believe in God and have faith in God this process would no longer be needed.

Of course the first view is a wrong view to those that understand the process. Obviously you never did. Generally most critics here don’t. Especially those that continue to claim, being a righteous witness. Why? Because God never really gave you insight, and now as an opposer even less.

 

“…that this process would no longer be needed”  It appears you are referring to the process of devising, planning and proclaiming, false prophesy.  Good for the WT, they “stopped advertising any prophetic events after 1984”.  They stopped misleading millions of lives with the promise of Armageddon to come on a certain date.  And this makes them “righteous” in front of God?  Is this a sort of natural selection necessary to sift out the unworthy ones over the years, preserving those who blindly continue to listened to their leaders?  Matt 15:14

“…because of the 1975 fiasco”

Fiasco - a thing that is a complete failure, especially in a ludicrous or humiliating way.

“…the Watchtower would no longer print such enlightenment”

Enlightenment – understanding, insight, education, learning, knowledge, awareness, information, erudition, wisdom, instruction, teaching, illumination, light, edification…

Spiritual enlightenment from a “righteous” person would not be a complete failure, or ludicrous; since Christ would be the source of such insight.

“You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. ¹⁵ Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. ¹⁶ Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.” Matt 5:14-16

Prophetic fiascos are not “good works”, but prove your leaders do not have the light of Christ within them.  WT's failures do not glorify God, whatsoever.  One demeans the very persona of God and Christ, to believe they tolerate such lies, from the tongues of those who speak them.    Jer 23:16; Rev 16:13,14

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”  John 15:5

False prophesy is worthless - it is nothing.  No spiritual growth can be gleaned from lies; since they have their beginning with the father of the lie.  John 8:44

“…Because God never really gave you insight, and now as an opposer even less.”

I have enough spiritual insight to respect the Word of God over those of men who have tickled the ears of many ( 2 Tim 4:3,4); spreading their false prophesy with excuses attached -  words perceived as having higher value than the Word of Christ and the Father.

“The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, ¹⁶ according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’

¹⁷ “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. ¹⁸ I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. ¹⁹ And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. ²⁰ But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, (“Jehovah’s organization”) that prophet shall die.’ ²¹ And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— ²² when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.’”  Deut 18:15-22

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."  2 Thess 2:9-12

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:27 AM, derek1956 said:

Let me put it this way 1975 cleansed out the organization from those who were looking for a date, those who fell away were not serving Jehovah how he wants them to serve him.

Actually, it probably did not. The emphasis on the years surrounding 1975 came especially from Fred Franz, the primary source of that emphasis. He was not cleansed from the organization, and with Knorr's failing health in 1976, Franz even became the President of the WTS. Recall that Franz joined the WTS way back just before 1914, when the emphasis on serving for a date was at its peak. The WTS even printed cards so followers could count down their last year on earth, by checking off every single day until October 1, 1914. Then when that failed, the next big thing was to promote the dates 1915, then 1918, then 1925. After that the organization claimed that it learned to stop setting dates.

“Ever since the 1870's, Bible Students had been serving with a date in mind - first 1914, then 1925. Now they realized that they must serve for as long as Jehovah wishes.” Watchtower 1993 Nov 1 p.12

Those who were not looking for a date included the portion of the Writing Department who had worked on the Aid Book, the first major publication that admitted that our chronology was not based on facts but only on assumptions. All of those brothers on the Aid Book team were dismissed from the Writing Department, two of them disfellowshipped, and another disfellowshipped later. Two major contributors (besides R.Franz) were sent back to their congregations with only an offer of a special pioneer stipend.

There were others in the Writing Department and Governing Body who questioned our beliefs surrounding 1914, including Schroeder, Swingle, Chitty and Sydlik. Sydlik also knew my own belief about 1914, and told me that now would be a good time to "watch our tongue." Schroeder didn't get into trouble because he was the head Inquisitor to root out "apostasy" where one of his major questions was about whether one questioned 1914. (Even though he himself questioned 1914.) Although some members of the Writing Department and one member of the Service Department  knew that I also questioned 1914, I never admitted this to Brother Schroeder, even though I saw him nearly every day.)

But the persons who were taking the most prominent lead in promoting the period surrounding 1975 were F.W.Franz and two persons in Writing who hitched themselves closely and loyally to F.W.Franz. As far as I can tell it included NO ONE ELSE ON THE GOVERNING BODY, even those who called F.W.Franz, the Oracle. The next more prominent persons promoting the idea that we should be serving more and more with a date in mind were the leading members of the Service Department (including Correspondence). These were also the ones who promoted the talks by District Overseers on the topic of 1975 because their "job" was to "effect a greater urgency and increase in the service activities: placements, studies, hours.) They watched the numbers from month to month, and were guided by what types of appeals, encouragement, goals, requirements, reasoning, etc., appeared to have the most effect on those numbers:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201974163

Should we not today be imitating his example, especially since we have such a short time left now in which to complete the Kingdom-preaching? Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity? . . . Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.

This is the definition of "serving with a date in mind." These brothers, including the infamous Charles Sunutko, were guided by this thinking that came out of the Service Department which came out of F.W.Franz. These were the loyal ones, serving with a date in mind. These were NOT the ones who were punished in any way, precisely because they did NOT question.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

25 minutes ago, Witness said:

Prophetic fiascos are not “good works”, but prove your leaders do not have the light of Christ within them.  WT's failures do not glorify God, whatsoever.  One demeans the very persona of God and Christ, to believe they tolerate such lies, from the tongues of those who speak them.    Jer 23:16; Rev 16:13,14

Ezekiel 13 description is amazing about false promises and teachings about future events.

[JW Insider]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:27 AM, derek1956 said:

Are you looking forward to the end of this wicked system of things in 20??.

We are all presumably looking forward to it, but if we are participating in service activities or increasing our service activity because of a belief that it will happen in a specific century, then we are also serving with a date in mind.

On 8/19/2019 at 4:27 AM, derek1956 said:

Let me put it this way 1975 cleansed out the organization from those who were looking for a date, those who fell away were not serving Jehovah how he wants them to serve him. The ones that stayed stuck with it.

Back to this point again for a minute. This is similar to saying: It doesn't matter that we were teaching a falsehood, at least a lot of these little ones were stumbled.

Do we really thing that God wanted to test us with false doctrines?

13 When under trial,+ let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

[Witness]

43 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Ezekiel 13 description is amazing about false promises and teachings about future events.

Indeed, and how I wish all JWs could see its message.  

² “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, ‘Hear the word of the Lord!’ ”

Therefore thus says the Lord God: “Because you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you,” says the Lord God.”

 “Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life. ²³ Therefore you shall no longer envision futility nor practice divination; for I will deliver My people out of your hand, and you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”

Ezek 13:4,8,22,23

Rev 18:4-8

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

For one. You have to understand the concept of a 1000 years is 1 day of God. Therefore, prophetic terminology falls under and within that parameter.

This "Concept" is not fixed, not fixed even from Bible aspect. For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes, or a watch of the night. - Psalm 90.

From this Bible based "Concept" 1000 years is as 4 hours not 24 hours or 1 full day (Jew Concept, 12 hours of day light and 12 hours of night). This would mean how One Day is 6000 years. And not 7000 years as in some Calculations WT Society explained (as time was passed Length of  "Creation Day" had various calculation - 1000 years, 7000 years and as "Contemporary Light of Today" explained, that is: Unknown Period of Time)

Well, basically, if we want to take in consideration all this changes in JW Organization on Doctrines about Time and Periods, you based your "Concept" on WT Society "Concept", ..... and this is untrustworthy.  

[Witness]

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

You would think by now you people would be wiser to continue a false claim that the Watchtower claimed 1975 to be the end of the world. If Pastor Russell didn't signal that for 1914, then why would the Watchtower signal it for 1975.

Because…birds of a feather flock together.

Here is a handful of Russell's "signals":

"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)

"Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (1889 Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)

"Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)

"Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)

"When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)

2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

The irony, even John Paul ll mentioned 1975 to be a "new birth". Something some of us used to compare how right the Watchtower was for that in 1975. Not a new birth, but the birth of pangs.

You would compare the pope's vision of 1975 as a "new birth", to give credence to Watchtower's validation of 1975.  Incredible.  

Yes, birds of a feather flock together. 

Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.   Matt 12:38,39

Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”  John 4:48

Matt 13:10-17

 

"The Sign of the Son of Man" - 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

• "Millions now living will never die!"  (WT publications: 1918-1925)
• "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things." (WT publication: Awake! 5/22/1969)

These two prophecies are nearly equivalent, and were both made for very similar reasons, although under different circumstances.

[Matthew9969]

Maybe 1975 was overlapping with 2075

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

That doesn't mean to intelligent witnesses that we are waiting for the Sabbath, the day of God rest to intervene with Armageddon.

I am confused. Do you support WT Society and their doctrines or not ? What ever your answer will be, i respect your choice. But, from your comments, from time to time, from subject to subject, your speaking is not in harmony with JW Organization teachings. :))

Or perhaps, this "Sabbath" issue was changed in WT Theology from 2015 until now?