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1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

JW Insider

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False. Everyone should deny falsehoods. I agree that former Witnesses can be dishonest. I wouldn't judge them as the least honest people alive.  I have seen evidence of some dishonesty among some, but don't think any human even has a way to know if they are more or less honest than current Witnesses. My guess is that they would be about the same, on average -- less honest on some topics and more honest on some topics, depending on whether they are trying to promote or protect a specific i

Exactly! I gave actual facts and you just keep giving non-specific generalities and complaints that a small percentage of the actual facts and evidence from Watch Tower publications were also found on an apostate website, and therefore you seem to feel that they can therefore be ignored or distorted. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that sincere people will see right through, and they will see us as more and more dishonest. It's disappointing. How about some actual facts?

Sounds like a waste of time. But I'm retired, so I'll tell you what I would come up with: ..."millions now living will never die."... This was a risky prophecy to make. But the risk probably didn't seem too high at the time since, after the failure of 1914, Rutherford said that people had more on which to base their faith in this prophecy than Noah had on which to base his faith in Jehovah telling him there would be a Flood. He said that there was more Bible evidence for 1925 than there wa

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21 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

True. (Although I expect you intentionally misspelled it, just then.)

Since Anna spelled it that way, I am being polite not to go beyond your kind of grammar since it means so much too many of you. But, let me know who else I should be. Chime in anytime.

However, why don’t you explain to Anna the jubilee cycle, the restoration, and restitution idea about 1925, the correct way that is explained in the proclaimer’s book just fine?

Mind you, without attempting to hack my account, here. It's still against US law.

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

as i can recall, JTR said ones that he write with bigger fonts because he can see that text better. Even i consider to put bigger fonts because of my dioptric glass i have (+3.5 for reading)  

i believe this is prime reason in his case :)))  

Actually, I use 18 size fonts because that's the size text I think in.  

Also, you may have noticed that my text is black, not dark grey, because, I think in ink.

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3 hours ago, Anna said:
4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

"millions? ?now liv?ing will ne?ver ??di?e??.?"??

So how has this been explained away today? I don't seem to recall anything...

Just as the "Ministry of Truth" did in the book "1984" by George Orwell, the Society is revising History, wherever they can, to change graphic images ( posters, handbills, and other things that might be used in a current illustration) to read "Millions now living MAY never die." (emphasis mine).

The book "1984 was SUPPOSED to be a fictional dire warning of how societies evolve into a perpetual tyranny over time, and showing how it could happen.

We us it as a policy manual.

In "1984"  England  had evolved into INGSOC, and the way they maintained total social control was by changing the past by changing all historical references .... and by controlling the past, controlled the present, and controlled the future .... making it difficult or impossible to check the past for truthful references to ANYTHING.

The Society today is actively using this technique to change the past. In many cases the bound volumes of the Watchtowers and Awakes have been revised and do not show what was in the original magazines, and convention videos today mentioning our history make you wonder if they are talking about something that happened somewhere in a parallel Universe.

The "Millions now living may never die" is only THE classic example of rewriting the past, to control the present, and by controlling the present, control the future.

Here are two videos that explain "1984".

Watch them and weep.



The Dystopian World of 1984 Explained.mp4George Orwell's 1984, Part 2_ Crash Course Literature #402 (1).mp4


NOW ... find the movie "1984", and watch it. It has a superstar of yesteryear in it ... but you hardly notice.




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18 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Coincidences don't necessarily give a true picture, but they can certainly be entertaining.

Never pay attention to coincidences like this. They mean nothing. hehehehe

Just remember: Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult!

And don’t listen to that liar @TrueTomHarley when he pretends to agree, but adds:

C. courage

U. unity 

L. love

T. truth


Arrrggghhhh! I hate him!

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2 hours ago, AllenSmith34 said:

While you’re at it, include 1914, and 607 material that was made light upon your approach of misrepresenting the Watchtower as a witness. Just as 1975, 1925, and whatever else opposers dwell on.

Yeah ... why dwell on such things ... Like Adolph Hitler is reported to have said when Allied Forces were battling , forcing their way into Germany from both sides, destroying their cities while destroying their armies .... "Those Allies have ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE OF HUMOR!"

We should look at 1925 and 1975 as funny ... like Grandmother's continuous flatulating at the Kitchen Table.

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Being rude, sarcastic, use ad hominem, insults, drama, procrastination, whatever else the mental state offers as an excuse, is very apparent here on a site that is supposed to be friendly to Jehovah’s Witnesses, and is responded by witnesses. I don’t know what kind of witnesses many of you think you are, a witness in good standing you’re not. Even if you are making it an excuse to further your bible teachings, honest and faithful Christians would amount to the discourse and rivalry that is expressed here in supporting the arguments former witnesses offer, and yet, openly agree that some of their arguments are valid when they all have been debunked.

Maybe the JW reformation group would be a more honest approach to relieve some of the anxieties some of you have by pretending to be witnesses. I really don’t understand who it is your fooling since nothing can be hidden from God. What possible good standing do you foresee, that would be in your favor in God’s Eyes. Not just as individuals, but as a faithful group that has the same assent toward each other as though they were married.

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Grey Reformer:

I have learned that between men of integrity, one can always be brutally blunt, but there is nothing you can do for Snowflakes who melt at a slight rise in "temperature".

Since you specifically asked for an answer, I will give you the general answer ... not point-by-point ... because it would take what would seem forever, and historically, would be a waste of my time.

The FACT is ... your viewpoint on human interactions is driven by your AGENDA, which on the surface, is quite noble, but you believe things that really happened did not, you believe things that are really are happening now are not happening, and you vigorously defend the completely indefensible.

I fully understand you are doing the best .. the VERY best ... that you know how to do with your world view of how things OUGHT to be.

You are ignorant, and cannot be taught.

You are going to have to educate yourself on how to think like an adult. 

I was a "late bloomer" in that regard myself, so having been there, I FULLY understand your dilemma.  I, also, was completely unteachable, hard headed, altruistic, and agenda driven ..... and painfully transparent to those that had to endure my cluelessness.

I of course was oblivious, because I was first clueless.  Being clueless is like being dead. You do not know you are dead, but it is quite clear to every one else.

..... but I digress,

Reality is not what you think it SHOULD be.

Reality is what reality is.

You need to put on your "Big Boy Pants", stop thinking like a Watchtower Lawyer's six year old son  .... and grow up.

You asked for answers .... be careful what you ask for ....


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That’s good you feel you’re wasting God’s time. That’s the first honest thing anyone has said so far. As for wasting your time on humans, we all need to start with ourselves, then move on to a more progressive mental state where reasoning doesn't become a lack of conscience, and morals, not to man but to God. The sad thing, God holds standards for true Christians. He expects us to follow on Jesus example and obey biblical commands that are in black and white.

Anyone challenging those standards is simply telling God, I am a God as well, and I don’t need to subject myself to mortal men that you have assigned to carry your work. Let me know how God replies before judgment is set upon those that freely challenge his divine words. Matthew 6:33, James 1:2, Romans 12:2

Honest Christians will understand the bible script above. Although, Jesus made it a challenge to go beyond, and one step further in a symbolic way, Matthew 5:29. It works for all sorts of human behavior that people seem to think it only means for adultery. This is why God seeks spiritually mature people to take the lead, and we can’t will that pesky command away.

The point to look at, why would Jesus allow an infected part of his body to poison the rest of the body. Doesn’t a doctor that has a patient that developed gangrene find it a need to amputate that dead section before it affects other parts of the body or cause death? This is the logic that is being displayed here. Allow the gangrene in place to see what we can learn. So, let’s study it, by making claims and suppositions on how the doctors can learn without there being any mistakes on the proper treatment that is urgently needed. But, let’s see how far we can take it, by using false research before the patient dies.

I don’t find any of it funny, or see the humor about God holding us responsible for every human we drive away from learning about him and Christ. But, then again, I wouldn’t want to, and I’m certain God isn’t laughing either.

Therefore, I do understand that former witnesses carry a false narrative when it comes to 1925 and 1975. I do understand that the Watchtower never claimed Armageddon would come on those years, just like C.T. Russell never claimed it would come in 1914. So, I don’t dwell on false claims. Once in a blue moon, it will come out, and those that have an erred understanding will see for themselves, once the evidence is presented to them in the correct way.

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38 minutes ago, Grey Reformer said:

I don’t find any of it funny, or see the humor about God holding us responsible for every human we drive away from learning about him and Christ. But, then again, I wouldn’t want to, and I’m certain God isn’t laughing either.

You misconstrue EVERYTHING.

I cannot help you.

40 minutes ago, Grey Reformer said:

That’s good you feel you’re wasting God’s time.

You misconstrue EVERYTHING.

I cannot help you.

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