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1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

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False. Everyone should deny falsehoods. I agree that former Witnesses can be dishonest. I wouldn't judge them as the least honest people alive.  I have seen evidence of some dishonesty among some, but don't think any human even has a way to know if they are more or less honest than current Witnesses. My guess is that they would be about the same, on average -- less honest on some topics and more honest on some topics, depending on whether they are trying to promote or protect a specific i

Exactly! I gave actual facts and you just keep giving non-specific generalities and complaints that a small percentage of the actual facts and evidence from Watch Tower publications were also found on an apostate website, and therefore you seem to feel that they can therefore be ignored or distorted. Unfortunately, this is the kind of thing that sincere people will see right through, and they will see us as more and more dishonest. It's disappointing. How about some actual facts?

Sounds like a waste of time. But I'm retired, so I'll tell you what I would come up with: ..."millions now living will never die."... This was a risky prophecy to make. But the risk probably didn't seem too high at the time since, after the failure of 1914, Rutherford said that people had more on which to base their faith in this prophecy than Noah had on which to base his faith in Jehovah telling him there would be a Flood. He said that there was more Bible evidence for 1925 than there wa

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7 hours ago, Vic Vomidog said:

Never pay attention to coincidences like this. They mean nothing. hehehehe

Just remember: Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult!

And don’t listen to that liar @TrueTomHarley when he pretends to agree, but adds:

C. courage

U. unity 

L. love

T. truth


Arrrggghhhh! I hate him!

OK True Tom, cut it out! xD

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2 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

All of this "chicken little" stuffage is a true waste of time.  WOW!  Talk about gulping down the gnat!   Where is the Love?   There should be encouraging talk for each other in these....Significant Times.

Sorry AS34/GR I didn’t mean to log in at the same time as you. My bad. I keep forgetting who’s who. I’m you, you are me. He is she, it is they, and they are them. As wrong as JWinsider is, he has a good imagination for conspiracies. LOL! People like Anna love it. Can you say secret lovers?

I couldn’t agree more. Perhaps it’s because you have about 4-5 people that make the environment here impossible to attach a righteous command by Christ of loving one another and holding the body of Christ in unity. There is no one else to blame. But we also need to keep in mind, there are plenty of opposers contributing to these contentious topics, and honest witnesses are not willing to defend their faith adequately. Therefore, who is worse and how does this affect the personal lives of those referring to themselves as True Christians. There seems to be an disconnect with the truth.

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10 minutes ago, Alithís Gnosis said:

Sorry AS34/GR I didn’t mean to log in at the same time as you. My bad. I keep forgetting who’s who. I’m you, you are me. He is she, it is they, and they are them.

I  waited until you logged off. come on! we had a good thing going. Remember, wait awhile and log in again. That way we can pretend to be each other. LOL! ??

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14 hours ago, Alithís Gnosis said:

As wrong as JWinsider is, he has a good imagination for conspiracies. LOL! People like Anna love it. Can you say secret lovers?



In just the last couple days, in my opinion, the following aliases have all been juggled by the same person. There may have been others but these are the ones that have interacted with posts I have been reading.

@DespicableME @Malum Intellectus @Alithís Gnosis @Grey Reformer In some of the recent threads, some of these aliases have only been used for up-voting and down-voting. And no, All, I did not hack your account to expose this. Except for Gray Reformer, which didn't show up until August 7, the first three just mentioned were all created by you in the same month, December 2017, and I knew all of them to be you within minutes. Anyone here who was alert to the way they were used immediately after they appeared, and who watched the "Who's Online" list, would have known this just by watching carefully. From now on, as you apparently know, you can mask some of the exposure by keeping several of your aliases logged in at the same time by using multiple computers and/or by using multiple browsers on the same computer. There are several different popular browsers that can all be used simultaneously, and each can be logged in to a different alias account. The downside to that is that you might find it necessary to set up a new set of names since about two dozen of your aliases are already fairly well-known.

Again, these ideas are based on opinion and coincidences; you do not have to worry that anyone has hacked your account(s) to expose these things.

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On 9/12/2018 at 3:31 PM, Anna said:

So was that it? The "WILL" became a "MAY"?

That's not really the story, in my opinion. The Watchtower has often admitted that the title of the talk used the word "May" in February 1918, but that it was changed to "Will" in March 1918, and it never changed back. Looking at over 200 references to it in more recent decades, there were some time periods when the talk was referred to only with "May" and no reference to "Will" was given. This is likely what JTR refers to, but it wasn't as blatant as he implies. Overall, in recent decades, there were over 200 recent references to it as "Will" and only about 20 references to it as "May."

The Proclaimers book gives a fairly accurate account of the talk, even if the discussion and impact of the talk and prophecy appears purposely minimized.

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On 9/11/2018 at 5:15 PM, Anna said:

So how has this been explained away today? I don't seem to recall anything...

Nothing needed to be done to explain it away for nearly 100 years, because there was still a chance within the first 100 years, that the prophecy might have come true. (At least the prophecy made in the title of the talk might still have come true, even if almost all the other details of the prophecy and its foundation had still failed.)

And after 100 years any "scandal" over it is long past, and could easily be dismissed with favorite phrases like "the light gets brighter." 

The statement made in March 1918 ("Millions now living will never die.") has only recently become a truly "false" prophecy in that a fulfillment of sorts was still possible up until a couple years ago. Technically, you would need at least 2 million persons to make the plural "millions" part come true, and we would evidently have needed Armageddon to come sometime around 2016 in order for 2 million 98+ year-olds to still be alive, who had just born in March 1918. Perhaps, some worldwide estimates of the number of 99+ year-olds in 2017 could have been around to potentially survive Armageddon. As of now in late 2018, however, there would have to be 2 million 100.5-year-olds, going on 101 in the next few months. According to average best estimates there are now far less than 1 million 100-year-olds. In fact, barely over 500,000 as seen in the PEW chart that Google returns if you ask "how many centenarians are currently alive in the whole world."


Another point that would make it even more difficult to be fulfilled would be the fact that back then these millions were going to be unbaptized, worldly people who would simply begin "not to die" as of 1925 and thereafter. It did not refer to the great crowd of Revelation 7. It referred to people of all religions and non-believers who would survive Armageddon because it was Jehovah's purpose, as stated at the time, to save almost everyone through Armageddon into a time when they would simply stop dying. Remember that the "great crowd" of Revelation 7 were still going to heaven along with the 144,000 kings and priests, according to Russell's and Rutherford's teachings. The only difference between the 144,000 in heaven and the great crowd in heaven is that the great crowd were not of the "higher" heavenly calling and were not part of Christ's Bride.

By normally obscuring this fact, and wrongly claiming that the "millions" were the equivalent of the "great crowd,"  the Watch Tower publications have been able to just "chalk up" the prophecy to over-optimism in thinking so many would respond to the Bible Students in such a quick period of time after 1918. It is very rare for the Watch Tower publications to admit how closely this prophecy was tied to the year 1925. In other words, when the great tribulation does come in the next few years, as expected, it will only have been a few years off.

Understanding the original prophecy in its full context is a good idea, in order to understand how and why the references to it have evolved over time. Maybe in another thread?

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I understand that it is being discussed at World HQ running a special issue of the Watchtower, explaining the "signs from the heavens ..." that Hurricane Florence will be picking up sharks from the Atlantic Ocean, and dumping them in front yards, back yards, and on old peoples homes.

If at the Warwick GB conference room this is actually discussed, and it gets 67% of the votes of the GB, then this will be official "New Light".... "New Truth".

Absurd, you say?  No, No NO!

It follows well established patterns of reason and logic for over a HUNDRED YEARS  There is actually NO RISK to this as the credibility gap is WELL exceeded by the gullibility fill. 

Add to that is that if we refuse to believe it, we can be disfellowshipped for Apostasy, and that adds MASSIVE believability  in the real world .

Stay tuned to see if this report is true, or merely a satire.


Gravity Electricity Wind .mp4


... and remember, when you vote for what is true .... vote early, and vote often !

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. I don't think it would be of concern to them, but they will react as they did in Mexico, Puerto Rico, Texas, Haiti, Japan, etc. it won't be much of a difference with Hurricane Florence since the faith group does relief work to help their own, first, and go for anyone else, as is done before with them, and like before any relief work they do will be flagged and removed and they will be spoken of as the faith group that did nothing - has I made mention of last year. The biggest concern for everyone is that this is a slow moving storm and slow moving means catastrophic damage, as in if their are plant facilities in the area, of which can raise the danger level even higher, and slow moving also increases the chances of little to no survivability with all that water in it's wake.


Other than that, natural disasters such as earthquakes even even hurricanes like this are signs and the Bible speaks of such things.

But let us not get carried away like others who claim the hurricane, as done before, it God's anger against mankind, the Christians who stated this a while back for Hurricane Irma because the hurricane looks like a skeletal figure's face (The Grim Reaper) are in error, the same goes for those speak of conspiracy in regards to said hurricanes, including this one.

Also I'd like to add that $10 million was transferred from FEMA to ICE, I don't have sympathy for both of them for their actions, as well as The Red Cross who made fool's those half my family originates from.

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    • By Jack Ryan
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      Because this post was moved away from its original context, a response to a post about Armstrong's promotion of 1975, I will edit the post below to contain all of @AllenSmith's original material, here. I'm moving his images outside the quote, so that they can be more easiliy seen as relevant to the discussion of H.W.Armstrong, as Allen intended.

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      And, don't forget that, in 1956, Herbert W Armstrong supposedly stole the idea from the February 1, 1955 Watchtower, which put the end of 6,000 years within one year of 1976:
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      In 1953 in preparing the chart that appears in the book “New Heavens and a New Earth” a one-year error was brought to light. By the aid of the New World Translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the difference between the two numbers appearing at Genesis 7:6 and Genesis 7:11 became apparent, especially since there are two different Hebrew words here maintaining a distinct difference. At Genesis 7:6 the number 600 referring to Noah’s age means 600 full years, being what is generally termed a cardinal number. Whereas at Genesis 7:11 the number “600th,” an ordinal number, means 599 full years plus a portion of another year. . . .  Inasmuch as previously our chronology considered Noah as 600 full years old when he entered the ark, instead of the actual 599 years and some months, as we now see, this has meant that the preflood dates must be shrunk by one year, this bringing Adam’s creation for the fall of 4025 B.C. Incidentally, Jesus, who became the second or “last Adam,” was born in the fall of the year around the first of October.—1 Cor. 15:45, NW. It is well to understand that all Bible chronology dates for events prior to 539 B.C. must be figured backward from the Absolute date of 539 B.C. In the sure date of 607 B.C. for the fall of Jerusalem we have an anchor for the chronology establishment of the important year of 1914. By an overwhelming number of physical facts occurring since 1914, this great turning-point year in man’s history, 1914, has been abundantly confirmed. According to Genesis 1:24-31 Adam was created during the last part of the sixth creative-day period of 7,000 years. Almost all independent chronologists assume incorrectly that, as soon as Adam was created, then began Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period of the creative week. Such then figure that from Adam’s creation, now thought to be the fall of 4025 B.C., why, six thousand years of God’s rest day would be ending in the fall of 1976. However, from our present chronology (which is admitted imperfect) at best the fall of the year 1976 would be the end of 6,000 years of human history for mankind, 6,000 years of man’s existence on the earth, not 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh seven-thousand-year period. Why not? Because Adam lived some time after his creation in the latter part of Jehovah’s sixth creative period, before the seventh period, Jehovah’s sabbath, began. . . . The very fact that, as part of Jehovah’s secret, no one today is able to find out how much time Adam and later Eve lived during the closing days of the sixth creative period, so no one can now determine when six thousand years of Jehovah’s present rest day come to an end. Obviously, whatever amount of Adam’s 930 years was lived before the beginning of that seventh-day rest of Jehovah, that unknown amount would have to be added to the 1976 date. Of course, just a decade or so later, the Watchtower began minimizing the amount of time it would have taken for a perfect man to name all the animals if Jehovah brought them to him in a steady stream. The flaw in this reasoning was that angels would surely know that amount of time that Jehovah had kept a secret, so they would be aware of the day and the hour "when 6,000 years of Jehovah's present rest day come to an end."
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      ("They lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said Jim Penton, an ex-Witness who writes entries on Jehovah's Witnesses for the Encyclopedia Americana.)
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