1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?

[Melinda Mills]

I remember "back-calls" and other terms. It still slips off my tongue from time to time. Never heard those instructions before.  Thanks for the quote from the 1943 magazine.  I remember also about the 100 hours for vacation pioneers some years later - the 1950s and '60s.

My mum used to pioneer a lot, along with looking after five children, as well as being a housewife and a seamstress.  I always remember this incident when I think of vacation pioneering in those days along with the high hour requirement. (Imagine calling 30 hours high after those figures of yesteryear.)  My eldest brother was kind of "hard-ears". Mum had special instructions  for him before she left home to pioneer. On one occasion she told him not to leave the house and not to fly any kites. He not only flew the kite but he flew it from the top of the house.  When he saw her returning from pioneer service  about  a few hundred yards off, he jumped from the top of the house  to the ground and pretended he was not outside. (My Mum did not leave discipline to my father like some mothers - she was a strict disciplinarian.)  He got lashes along with the sore feet. (Of course they were other reports from the siblings about other things he did.) After his disobedience, she would take him with her - so he frequently had to put in the same hours as she. He got baptized at 13, I think.  He was faithful for some time, but after marrying a non-Witness he became inactive.

Occasionally he refers to her as one of the "real" Witnesses, a term that makes me smile. He asked me recently why there are always older people in the field service - where are the young ones?.He knows that in his day the young ones were out religiously every weekend and often during school holidays, no excuses posed or allowed.

 

Back to the idea I posited.  I don't think you can have it both ways.  Either you set your own goals, knowing your circumstances, and you give God your best, or your goals are set by someone else.  Agree it is legalistic to set hour requirements for others.

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Anna said:

It is a very difficult thing. Do you think it's possible to have a good and close relationship with Jehovah, and yet be wary sometimes about what the Slave says? In the past these two things were inseparable. If you were not agreeing with the Slave, you were automatically against Jehovah.

In the past??? 

What is different today, on Saturday,  September 15 2018 ??

:))

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

July 1, 1943 Watchtower (p.205), ...It is for your good that these
requirements are made;....

Yes, i came to this and similar quotes, that are in WT publications, in my "period of Cognitive Dissonance". 

Such WT statements are really "strong, solid food"... not for babies. :))))))

 "For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil." - Heb 5:

"Why do you spend money for what is not bread, And your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, And delight yourself in abundance. - Isaiah 55:2

[Evacuated]

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

there is more than one way to set up a kind of equivalence so that one might be seen as the near or practical equivalent of the Lord himself.

That is what I mean. Or metaphorically speaking. there is "more than one way to skin a cat", (or rabbit, or pineapple, depending on your sensibilities).

I think most of the observations made regarding quaint and peculiar eccentricities of behaviour exhibited in what JTR terms as the "85% of irrational cluelessness" are covered by Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 13:9-11. Unfortunately, as a body, we are pretty inept at judging when we actually make the transition to "manhood".

There is sad anecdote regarding this scripture for me. In the 1970's, a very prominent, "anointed" brother left the organisation and by weird coincidence came to live in my street. He had now become a medical doctor. I met him in field service and he did not reveal he was a former witness, and as he now was heavily bearded, I did not recognise him until we had conversed for a while. I realised he must have been associated at one time, because he had what I call post '75 syndrome among other spritual difficulties. I figured out who he was and he said he enjoyed seeing how long it would take for a witness to realise he was an "ex" as he put it. He liked observing the reactions. 

Anyway, he used 1Cor. 13:9-11 as his reason for parting company with Jehovah's Witnesses. He felt that error could be always justified as the "traits of a child". Interesting viewpoint I thought. Sadly, he died of HIV related complications within a few years.

I don't share the quantiative, pareto-type assessment JTR makes, as I think the quality of what is sound in our belief far exceeds in proportion that of what is queer, odd and Ripleyesque. But it does seem to indicate that far more than "proof" or "evidence" is at work here.

[Melinda Mills]

31 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But even on a day when I'm most ready to "make sure of all things," I can still run through one of the most recent Watchtowers and find very little that moves the needle on my "Beroean" sensors

I thoroughly enjoyed the last Watchtower on Sunday gone.  That was food for a full grown man.  I like how it was drawn to our attention that God rewarded Jesus and Mary in incremental and unexpected ways, and how we have to do things to be known by God and not seek our reward now in this system of things.  It gave us similar hope that when we serve Him in spirit and truth we can also look forward to blessings that we did not anticipate. As his memory is limitless we can rest assured that he knows the good things we do daily and will not forget the love we showed by giving us sweet surprises.  I am sure Mary might not have thought that her speech would be recorded in his Word for all eternity.

[Anna]

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In the past??? 

What is different today, on Saturday,  September 15 2018 ??

:))

Well actually Friday Sept 14 2018 is the past . I might be wrong on this, but I think in English when one uses the term past in the context that I did, doesn't necessarily mean "distant" past it can mean any time between many years ago and yesterday. One could be more specific and say not long ago, or in the distant past. I was talking about the past that I know of, which could be not very long ago at all, but I don't know, so that's why I just said past. I do not know what the exact status of the answer to that question is today (Saturday, Sept 15 2018). You seem to feel nothing has changed.

[derek1956]

Let me put it this way 1975 cleansed out the organization from those who were looking for a date, those who fell away were not serving Jehovah how he wants them to serve him. The ones that stayed stuck with it. It`s like when Jesus was arrested and a lot fell away from following Jesus, some came back, some who fell away in 1975 came back.

Are you looking forward to the end of this wicked system of things in 20??.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

If you weren’t there to personally experience what was going on, Get off it!

I am witness to some elders comments about 1975. That what i was heard was between 1977 and 1980.

In short, they have explanation why nothing had happened in 1975. Because time gap between creation of Adam and Eve is The Answer :))))  

So, obviously they waiting for Armageddon in 1975 :))

[Witness]

11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

To be honest 1975 marked the beginning of end times. Now we are in the path of the birth pangs. Keep in mind what scripture states. When you see these things, the time of the end is not just yet. We are in that point in time. The Watchtower doesn't need to continue to sound any prophecy after that point. It is meant to gather the most loyal to God that can see the process.

Everyone that complains, gossips, and falsely entertains the notion the Watchtower is somehow wrong for giving a prophetic timeline for those that obey and stayed faithful to God, are only fooling themselves and have lost the right to that vision of God's insight.

 This is quite the can of worms.  I thought you were a big proponent of 1914.  Although I totally agree with you that “birth pains” leading to the coming Kingdom of God are happening now (but not based on 1975 – Matt 24:3; Rev 3:3), either Watchtower’s prophetic timeline is wrong, or you are wrong according to their prophetic timeline.

1925: “Birth of the Nation”—made plain the prophecies showing that God’s Kingdom was born in 1914 w/87/3/1

The evidence already considered proves that A.D. 1914 God’s kingdom was born and his Son was enthroned with authority to rule with an iron rod amid his foes. ka chap. 11 pp. 183-211

According to your organization, the birth pains have come and gone. But, scripture doesn't tell us of two birthings,  so they get around this by translating Matt 24:8 by saying "pangs of distress".  

And the end times?  Apparently that also began in 1914:

“The conclusion of the system of things” began in 1914. During the war that broke out that year, the few thousand anointed Christians, “the sons of the Kingdom,” were in spiritual captivity to Babylon the Great. In 1919, Jehovah delivered them, making a clear distinction between them and “the weeds,” or imitation Christians. He gathered “the sons of the Kingdom” into an organized people, in fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy: “Will a land be brought to birth in one day? Or will a nation be born all at once? Yet, as soon as Zion went into labor, she gave birth to her sons.” (Isa. 66:8) Zion, Jehovah’s organization of spirit beings, brought forth her spirit-anointed sons and organized them into a nation. w14 11/15 p. 25-26 

Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.  Matt 24:4-8

Yes, the New Covenant woman/promise is experiencing “birth pains”.  Rev 12:2; Gal 4:26  This promise of life brings forth the woman’s “seed” - God’s Kingdom heirs. Rev 12:5; 2:26,27  The Kingdom arrives once the appropriate number of faithful priests are sealed.  Eph 1:10; Rev 12:10,11;7:4

“Watch out that no one deceives you”.  Satan is behind the deceit that he places before the Kingdom’s potential heirs, causing their complacency and inattentiveness to Christ's arrival.  Rev 11:1,2 The “birth pains” of Matt 24 have nothing to do with politics or the world, (Eph 6:12) but has everything to do with the heirs’ ability to recognize Satan’s deception (2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12) and crush his accusations made against them.  Luke 22:31; Matt 24:21,22; Luke 21:36

It isn't the activity found in Satan's world that gives birth to the Kingdom. 

Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."  John 18:36

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

o, obviously they waiting for Armageddon in 1975 :))

In the 'run-up" to 1975 I WAS THERE, AND PAYING ATTENTION, and thought everyone had gone nuts. I drew cartoons on the inside covers of my Society's books ridiculing the idea ... and in that approximate ten year period, from Richmond, Virginia, to Hollywood California, to Kinshasa, Zaire, where I lived and worked ... THE STORY WAS ALL THE SAME.

I was in the Congo in 1974 and it got so intense that I reasoned (incorrectly) "How could I be right, and EVERYBODY else be wrong ?", so in a spasm of intellectual cowardice, I caved in to the peer pressure, and quit the best job I ever had, full of adventure and excitement, to return to Virginia to be with my parents, WHEN THE END CAME.

Don't give me any crap about "it didn't happen".

1975 is what didn't happen. 

And it generated literally TONs of money for the Society to keep that fear going at an accelerated pace for a decade before 1975.

that is why this issue will never die ... until after the people like myself who WERE THERE,  are silenced by the grave.

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Here is an Interview the BBC had with "Watchtower House", in 1968. The only topic of discussion was 1975.

The Bethel representative WAS THERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE 1975 ARMAGEDDON PREDICTIONS.

 

1414645491_JehovahsWitnessesina1968interview_Armageddonand1975_LondonWatchtowerrepspeakstoBBC.mp4.026b006ace4894d775768f67434b3ad6.mp4

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The Bethel representative WAS THERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE 1975 ARMAGEDDON PREDICTIONS.

Philip Reece? The Aussie guy? Where is he now?