Jump to content
The World News Media

At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?


Srecko Sostar

Recommended Posts

  • Member
8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

And that is the problem. I told witness before as to you cannot twist one's words to make it seem they make the claim of inspired prophets, and when asked, he did not deliver, to Butler, he did not deliver, to Srecko, he did not deliver.

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

For you, JWs!:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) 
proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

What an embarrassment for the organization. 

“The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

 

 

 

prophet WT.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 17.6k
  • Replies 338
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I understand your points and you have expressed them very well. I will address each point you raised separately, but first I just want to mention a few general things which have perhaps shaped the per

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them. Kids suffer

I think this point showed excellent insight. I wondered if this is what you meant from the start. The very context shows that the type of leadership in this case is more like the local elders rather t

Posted Images

  • Member
2 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing.  Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart.  Rom 5:5  It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27  Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20   For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5  They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit.  This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization.   Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies".   And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light.  1 John 1:6;

Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
who put darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.

21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes
    and clever in their own sight.  Isa 5:20-21

"Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me."  John 15:4

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
11 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

For you, JWs!:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) 
proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

What an embarrassment for the organization. 

“The prophecies of Almighty God, the fulfillment of which now clearly appears from the physical facts, show that the end of religion has come and with its end the complete downfall of Satan's entire organization." (Religion, J. F. Rutherford, p. 336, 1940)”

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

 

 

 

prophet WT.gif

Fantastic comment. But SM won't like it ofcourse :( 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
17 hours ago, Witness said:

I never said they were inspired!  I am pointing out that they claim they are NOT inspired!  YET, they expect obedience to every word that they “prophesy”.

And yet when it was coined you were quick to bring up the article that proved nothing of what was stated, moreover, you spoke of demonic inspiration. You had already pointed out the article before, pulling these 2 quotes to which Butler's reaction in agreement of same with Srecko, who in turn also posted this information:

  • Wt. 1964/10/1 - "Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a PROPHETLIKE ORGANIZATION, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation."
  • Wt. 972/4/1 -  "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" 

Which came after I stated the following: this is where you are twisting this, they never admit to being inspired prophets, and I am sure all the facts provided to you several times before thus proofs this point.

They admit to and made claim to simply being human, as with all of us, us of mankind, we are prone to making nonessential mistakes and errors at times, therefore not being an inspired prophet. They believe that, as a whole, as a community, and over the long term, has the guidance of Holy Spirit, but this does not mean that every step taken, every thought that comes to mind, every  word said and or uttered of every member of their church will be perfect in these End Times. Early Christians, who were obviously guided by Holy Spirit, admitted as much about themselves. And yet these it is not unknown to anyone that today's Christians, imperfect as they may be, can profess about prophets who are indeed inspired, such ones like Jeremiah, who was indeed an inspired prophets of God to be far more correct than you, me and even that of Scholars.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Can’t you see the hypocrisy?   The GB are “Israel”.  God’s word is clear about prophets among His people, even those who “act like it”.  And, if someone is “acting” like a prophet of God, but gives wrong interpretations, they are false prophets inspired by demonic utterances.

There is a clear distinction between a prophet who is inspired and a normal prophet. The most obvious different is a prophet who proclaims and ministers, one who is inspired, on the other side of the spectrum, a prophet who proclaims and ministers, who is spirit led. For Prophets such as Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, even Agabus were all inspired and infallible. Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common.

An inspired prophet possesses the miraculous gift of prophesy, inspired and infallible utterance and predictions, as proof they are having the Holy Spirit, of which we can see with Elijah and Elisha - you also already mentioned Moses, who is an inspired Prophet who does indeed have the miraculous gifts. For this is 1 of 9 miraculous gifts that is of the spirit, manifestations of the spirit and is indeed infallible as can be read in the Scriptures itself 1 Corinthians 12:8-10, Luke 4:18 and Romans 3:1, 2 for example.

A normal, Spirit led Prophet who is clearly not inspired and not infallible have the gifts of the spirit regarding prophesying. It is regarded as dominant, the ability for one to profess in spreading the good news gospel of the Kingdom and the Messianic Age of the coming Christ, such of which gives evidence of the holy spirit's role as seen in Scripture, Matthew 24:14, Luke 4:18, Acts 2:18, 19 and Romans 12:6-8. Such ones with spiritual gifts have that is of what is cultivated, or cultivated gifts as some would say.

An inspired prophet's message is inspired, like that of a breathe of God himself, therefore infallible. God is the primary source of the message and the author of the message granted the Word came from him. The written work itself in it's original form is both sacred and inspired. As the verses,

  • 2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

For prophets inspired by God have verbal communication through even that of angels, visions that puts forth God's message to those who hear it, they have dreams or night visions that is seen by them even in their sleep, and can convey a message even by means of a trance, other times through songs of praise that contribute to a prophet receiving communication that is divine (Exodus 9:1; Amos 3:3-8; Jonah 3:1, 2)

A prophet that isn't inspired and is not infallible in the message knows isn't the author of anything other than the Bible, they recognize that what they produce is of their own design but remain faithful to the Scriptures in of itself, this includes ALL Bible Translations because none of the translators or transliteratiors are not inspired, the very reason that most, if not all, tend to make revisions after revisions, example like you not knowing (but have used already) what the TR 1245 is and unaware that all translations, even that of JWs, have been revised, thus omitting anything related to the TR 1245, hence my clear view and adherence on Textual Criticism.

A not inspired prophet, or in this case, a normal prophet is encouraged by God's Word, if not, even moved by it. They show and express a genuine love for God and are moved to take action, just as those of old and our church fathers have. They are guided by God by means of influence and thinking, and our speech as with actions by means of the power of His Spirit and His Word, as can be evident by Matthew 13:11, 24:14.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Reasoning Book:

 "False Prophets 
Individuals and organizations (1) 
proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that (2) do not originate with the true God and (3) are not in harmony with his revealed will." Reasoning from the Scriptures p.132

Please continue:

“At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929 there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean 'House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there are those on earth today who fully believe in God and Christ Jesus and in His Kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be forever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth.... It stands there as a testimony to Jehovah's name; and when the princes do return, and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth Sarim. (Salvation, 1939, p. 311)

This was answered elsewhere and I will quote what was said about this, as the quote states:

Quote

Opposers of Jehovah's Witnesses have occasionally made references (most of the details being incorrect) to J. F. Rutherford and "Beth - Sarim" in an attempt to discredit the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. A look at the context and actual records would be beneficial: 

The 1975 Year Book tells us that

"Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment during 1918-1919 because of his faithfulness to Jehovah. Thereafter he had only one good lung. It was virtually impossible for him to remain in Brooklyn, New York, during the winter and still carry out his duties as the Society's president. In the 1920's he went to San Diego under a doctor's treatment. The climate there was exceptionally good and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible in San Diego. That is what Rutherford did ultimately.

"In time, a direct contribution was made for the purpose of constructing a house in San Diego for Brother Rutherford's use. It was not built at the expense of the Watch Tower Society. Concerning this property, the 1939 book Salvation stated: `At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929, there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth-Sarim.'" - p. 194.

By November of 1941 Brother Rutherford's condition compelled him to return to Beth-Sarim for his final illness. He died there January 8, 1942.


However, the Salvation book (written by Brother Rutherford) quoted above goes on to say:

"The Hebrew words `Beth Sarim' mean `House of the Princes'; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth. The title to Beth-Sarim is vested in the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society in trust, to be used by the president of the Society and his assistants for the present, and thereafter to be for ever at the disposal of the aforementioned princes on the earth. .... and if and when the princes do return and some of them occupy the property, such will be a confirmation of the faith and hope that induced the building of Beth-Sarim." - p.311.

Apparently Brother Rutherford had earlier written that he expected the return of these princes in the year 1925. I don't have a copy of that, but I see no reason to doubt it. Note, however, that Beth-Sarim wasn't built until 1929.

Money had been contributed for the specific purpose of "constructing a house in San Diego for Brother Rutherford's use" during his illnesses. The money, of course, could not be legally (or morally) used for any other purpose.

It's not surprising that in his book Brother Rutherford didn't care to detail these conditions which would have necessarily put his physical illnesses on public display. His decision to also dedicate this ground and building to those princes whom he truly expected to soon return is certainly understandable.

The fact that the princes did not return as soon as he expected was obvious even before Beth-Sarim was even built and certainly does not make Brother Rutherford a False Prophet.

http://pastorrussell.blogspot.com/2009/01/beth-sarim.html

 

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Please, SM, stop being so narrow-minded, and protecting a leadership that comes as wolves in sheep’s clothing.  False prophets demand obedience which the GB does.  False prophets have lead many down the road of darkness and death. 

It is not being of narrow minded, a narrow minded person will profess God sent Satan to the Egyptians, a person who does the research and understand the situation will never profess such a claim, let alone who who remains unaware of God's Purpose and Will, let alone what his own Son commissioned to Christians to follow.

The truth of the matter is they never claimed to be an inspired prophet and anyone who does the research can see that and it has been said, by them since the early 1880s.

That being said, I am well aware of who the False Prophets represent, who is of Babylon the Great granted I have been researching this for the longest time, what happened in various parts of the US and the World, I am aware of Lucis Trust and a list of other things that has been on a crusade of some sort to dismantle Christianity, of which is evident today. I am also aware of the E.I.I. the real enemy to me, to you, to John and even the JWs; and the difference between you and me is I do not take up conspiracy as truth, something you have been refuted on before.

If they are indeed lead to darkness and death, what of the current Jehovah's Witnesses here? Same community, same faith does not equate to all of them being 100% the same. you have some in the US that differ from each other, other elsewhere in France who differ, vice versa for other parts of the world. Every and each of them have what makes them happy, what makes them sad, even angry, what they like/dislike, what problems they have, what issues they have with themselves and or others, even shortcomings, the list goes on. Clearly none of them are shrouded in darkness, clearly none of them are advocates of death, for if they were, they clearly would not be here right now. And to subject a whole group, to demonize and attack them for what their community is all about due to the actions of a single person or a few is absurd, and you know that is right but you profess to the notion anyway.

My only issue is conspiracy and falsehood, at least next time do not make things one sided and take information from both sides which leads you to what is true and what is false, and in this case, no claim of being an inspired prophets has ever been made by them, no claim of inspiration has never been made by any current Restorationist who understand their apostolic roots, no Non-Trinitarian has ever and will never make the claim of being an inspired prophet - at all.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

JWfacts.com has a very good breakdown of Watchtower leaders "acting" as prophets.  Read especially, the 4/1/1972 Watchtower, “A Prophet Was Among Them”  , highlighted in red.

Christians are like prophets even act as prophets. But they are not inspired prophets like examples we see in the Bible. The irony here is other sources are capable to make known, even recognize the differences in a Prophet who is inspired and infallible and a Prophet who is not inspired and not infallible.

I had already mention the 1972 response from you and Srecko. Most people, including you, who is trying to attack the Jehovah's Witnesses and profess to claim that you follow of them being false prophet will often use the April 1,1972 book by them, and they, indulging you, as it as proof regarding a prophet who is inspired and infallible. This is chosen because, in spite of a number of things, even in the face of evidence, it is the only one such ones like yourself they can find where it seems to say that Jehovah's Witnesses consider themselves as inspired prophets. But like I said before, they never made the claim at all, for if they had indeed made the claim clearly the response would have been different, but in reality, what I say to you is the truth of the mater and unlike you I am not weaving things as you have done now and before.

Further evidence even tells you that in the 1880s-1890s that they, and I quote [We have not the gift of prophecy] and [Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible] Which is both indeed true because today's Christians are not like inspired and infallible prophets of old, moreover, the only thing inspired when it comes to the message is God's Word, spoken through the bible, and the Bible was just a translation of God's message, but God's Word is sacred and infallible.

An even older claim, 1870s

[We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change,—in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth.... It is our duty to "prove all things."—by the unerring Word,—"and hold fast to that which is good]

But as we can see, again I profess, that they never really claim to be an inspired prophet, to add more fuel to the fire, that article from their book does not bring forth claim of an inspired prophet, but rather, what Christians consider themselves to day, just simply prophets who profess the gospel and speak of coming End Times and Tribulations, as with the Messianic Age.

 

Another factor is those who are also neutral with the Watchtower and understand the history of other faiths, including the one professed by the Watchtower even make this known:

 

17 hours ago, Witness said:

"The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests (non anointed elder body who have replaced God's anointed priesthood) RULE BY THEIR OWN POWER; And my people love to have it so.  But what will you do in the end?"  Jer 5:31

Do not add a quote into the text you are speaking about, for if you have, do so in a separate response after mentioning the verse, otherwise this is a total disrespect to the verse of which you are conveying, and it falls under Deuteronomy 4:2 regarding adding to God's Word.

The verse says this

  • Jeremiah 5:31 - the prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule at their direction; my people love to have it so, but what will you do when the end comes?

It is a cross-references to Jeremiah 14:14, Lamentations 2:14; Ezekiel 13:6 Isaiah, 30:10 and John 3:19.

A prophet, Christians today profess the good news gospel, they profess the Messianic Age and they give warning of God's Day being near. Such ones are spirit led and they take example of actual inspired and infallible prophets of old, and they recognize that they, today themselves, are not inspired and infallible and would never make that claim to be such.

A false prophet will speak of such ones as them claiming to be inspired, to which they are not, reasons so because they seek to slander someone, even call them demonic. They will go above and beyond when there is unfounded prophet of their claim. A honest and reasonable man will see for themselves what is being spoken of as either true or false.

For just like in Prophet Jeremiah’s day, many people chose to remain to do things that is not of God while others do the opposite. For such ones they love slander and dishonesty, as with anything brazen under the sun, something of which that is not different in our day.

So who is the slanderer in this sense in this claim of inspired prophet claims - you or them?

14 hours ago, Witness said:

I must add, being "spirit-inspired" is the result of an anointing.  Holy Spirit is poured into one's heart.  Rom 5:5  It is alive and active and "inspires" one to understand Christ's truths. 2 John 2:2; 1 John 2:20,27  Holy Spirit "inspires" others to recognize truth when they hear it from one Jesus' sends. John 13:20   For the GB to claim they are not inspired also shows they no longer have Holy Spirit within them, if anointed. 2 Tim 3:5  They are ignorant of its power, but are well versed in "inspiration" coming from a demonic spirit.  This is how lies are generated and lies are laced through the teachings of the organization.   Their is no other word for false/failed doctrine, but "lies".   And lies have no origin in Christ, who is only light.  1 John 1:6;

Then what is it that is stopping you from understanding a prophet who is not inspired and not infallible compared to a prophet who is inspired and infallible?

By definition, you yourself is also a Prophet, clearly not inspired, clearly not infallible, this also goes for all JWs, even to us Biblical Unitarians. Non-Trinitarians are not inspired nor are they infallible nor are they ignorant of the holy spirit because know what it means to be spirit led, they know what the spiritual gifts entail regarding a prophet, be it a sole person or those who make up a group.

And this claim of yours, demonic spirit one should not be too quick to call someone of demonic influence.

Understand the difference next time, and I did see where you pulled that information, the same source that is making claim to an inspired prophet when evidence shows this isn't the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Before I was baptized I thought that you can always question every JW doctrine and that the Watchtower will always have scripturaly based answers for their doctrines. So I felt safe to be baptized. But I did not know that after you are baptized you have no more right to question the truthfulness of any doctine. And if you don't understand their explanation you have to comply anyway. 

If I had known that the WT-organization works like that, I doubt I had been baptized. 

To the contrary I heard the circuit overseer explain how honest and sincere the WT organization is. He claimed in a speech that if a person finds a fault in WT doctine and can show it from the Bible, then absolutely the WT organization will change the doctrine. 

It was with this mind I was baptized. But it became evident that that is not how the WT org works. When I had found scriptural evidence against some WT doctrines I wanted to show my elders. They came to my place, but they refused to look at my findings. They refused to look at the scriptures I wanted to show them. They were not going to examine the scriptures. I was amazed, what was going on? Now I understand that elders act according to WT procedures. They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 

That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 

Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.

But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 

As Bible-history shows, those who opposed truth tellers in the past got in trouble.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

A false prophet will speak of such ones as them claiming to be inspired, to which they are not, reasons so because they seek to slander someone, even call them demonic. They will go above and beyond when there is unfounded prophet of their claim. A honest and reasonable man will see for themselves what is being spoken of as either true or false.

For just like in Prophet Jeremiah’s day, many people chose to remain to do things that is not of God while others do the opposite. For such ones they love slander and dishonesty, as with anything brazen under the sun, something of which that is not different in our day.

So who is the slanderer in this sense in this claim of inspired prophet claims - you or them?

 

2 hours ago, Kosonen said:

They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 

That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 

Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.

But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 

Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL. 

You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets.  As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction.  He calls His prophets, “prophets”.  If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”.   Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20

Straight and simple. 

Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?

“These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.”

The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 

Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK.   Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
23 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. All you have to do is refrain from campaigning against them. 

You can cheerlead if you want. Many brothers do. But you certainly don't have to. 

I am a firm believer that Good will EVENTUALLY win out over evil .... always.

But it may take a forest of slaves, a mountain of corpses, and oceans of blood before that happens..

The ONLY thing necessary for evil to always win, is good men to accept the status quo ... and do nothing.

...and it usually takes a hundred years of tyranny for the sleeping giants to awaken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The ONLY thing necessary for evil to always win, is good men to accept the status quo ... and do nothing.

There is something about the inability to distinguish between what is important and what is not that I will never understand. It is closely associated with the inability to distinguish between the traffic cop's direction about best motoring from the orders of Hitler to gas millions.

If you are going to use the grandiose terminology that you do, use it over things deserving of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

TTH:

These are general principles that ALWAYS must be used to test interactions between humans.  If you don't ... like being on a muddy steep slope to the edge of a cliff, we may loose our footing and find ourselves having a wonderful ride down that slippery slope ... to the hard rocks at the bottom of the cliff.

It's one thing to have that wild ride by accident, or misadventure, and be broken up or killed by your own devices .... it is quite another to killed or broken up because someone speaking as a declared Watchman over your soul gives you bad advice, and it is because of that bad advice you slide, and fall to your peril.

The price of Liberty and Freedom depends on each individual maintaining eternal vigilance ... and ALWAYS test the credibility of any advice we are given by ANYBODY.

When I was a young man, I was floating down the James River and came downstream to Bosher's Dam, a few miles upstream of Richmond Virginia.  There were others already on the dam, which had about four inches of water overflowing the top, and beneath the water you could see the rust spots where steel rebar had once been across the top.  The others were jumping off the dam, and some were playing below at the base, among the water and large rocks, and some were jumping off to the water below.  I asked someone what was a safe space to jump off, and he said to count seven rebar spots from the side of the dam, and it was safe. 

I took him at his word, and counted seven rust spots, and jumped off to a pool below, surfaced, and continued my float trip.  Today I would have watched, to see who ELSE jumped at that spot before I did.

I have missed death and being mangled perhaps a hundred times in my life.... by pure, dumb accident.  Not a very smart philosophy. I "lucked out" ...so far.

That same summer I went to a pool party at the Presiding Overseers house, (I forget what we used to call them back then ...) and walked into the back yard to see all my friends in the pool, talking and laughing, with their arms hooked behind them on the edge of the pool. I asked my best friend, also named Tom, how deep the water was and he said "Nine Feet".

I proceeded to the diving board, made a high bounce, and went in head first.  At nine feet deep, my custom was to do an immediate flip under water so my feet hit the pool bottom first, and I would spring to the surface like a breaching submarine.  Unfortunately the pool was a uniform three feet deep, and I landed HARD flat on my back, which knocked out my air, and I surfaced far less dramatically.

Had it NOT have been my custom to flip underwater, I would have landed on my skull, and been maimed for life, or killed.  This was about 1965.  Because I was not hurt, everybody laughed, and I laughed too.

A few years later (sometimes I am quite slow...) I was thinking about that, and realized how CLOSE I came to being severely paralyzed or killed. I have an outrageous sense of humor, but that  ceased being funny.

I added the following line to my working philosophy "Never trust anyone at face value... but ESPECIALLY your best friends, and those that apparently have your best interests at heart." 

It took me about eight years or so to firm up that philosophy, which was consolidated when that same best friend ran off with my first wife ...they were married, and she died of Cystic Fibrosis while married to him.

The Congregations were "fine" with their marriage, which I found out about later ... until I wrote detailed letters, certified mail, return receipt requested ( the "green card") to every Congregation in the Richmond area, and to the then World HQ in Brooklyn. 

At some Congregations in the Richmond area, when they announced his disfellowshipping, because he had been a Bethelite, a Pioneer, and was "Brother Watchtower". and I was a known Barbarian, and because our names sound very similar phonetically ......

....... they announced from the platforms that it was I who had been disfellowshipped.

It was then I permanently lost all the friends I had grown up with in the "Truth", but I was working in California, and did not find out until I returned home, to Richmond, Virginia.

Sometimes ... you (meaning me) just have to consistently be a horse's ass to keep from being run over by happy, well-intentioned, flower bedecked rainbow ponies ... with sharp steel hooves.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

....... they announced from the platforms that it was I who had been disfellowshipped.

 

34 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

😱 At last....I think I am starting to understand you. That is simply outrageous.

To prevent such errors, elders should tell also date of bird and ID number, his nick name if he has such.... and of course name of mother and father of particular person....., perhaps it would not be bad idea also to give names of other family members, wife, children ... to prevent any mistakes about who they speaking about.   

:)))))))))) 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It appears to me that this is a key aspect of the 2030 initiative ideology. While the Rothschilds were indeed influential individuals who were able to sway governments, much like present-day billionaires, the true impetus for change stems from the omnipotent forces (Satan) shaping our world. In this case, there is a false God of this world. However, what drives action within a political framework? Power! What is unfolding before our eyes in today's world? The relentless struggle for power. The overwhelming tide of people rising. We cannot underestimate the direct and sinister influence of Satan in all of this. However, it is up to individuals to decide how they choose to worship God. Satanism, as a form of religion, cannot be regarded as a true religion. Consequently, just as ancient practices of child sacrifice had a place in God's world, such sacrifices would never be accepted by the True God of our universe. Despite the promising 2030 initiative for those involved, it is unfortunately disintegrating due to the actions of certain individuals in positions of authority. A recent incident serves as a glaring example, involving a conflict between peaceful Muslims and a Jewish representative that unfolded just this week. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/11/us-delegation-saudi-arabia-kippah?ref=upstract.com Saudi Arabia was among the countries that agreed to the initiative signed by approximately 179 nations in or around 1994. However, this initiative is now being undermined by the devil himself, who is sowing discord among the delegates due to the ongoing Jewish-Hamas (Palestine) conflict. Fostering antisemitism. What kind of sacrifice does Satan accept with the death of babies and children in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and other conflicts around the world, whether in the past or present, that God wouldn't? Whatever personal experiences we may have had with well-known individuals, true Christians understand that current events were foretold long ago, and nothing can prevent them from unfolding. What we are witnessing is the result of Satan's wrath upon humanity, as was predicted. A true religion will not involve itself in the politics of this world, as it is aware of the many detrimental factors associated with such engagement. It understands the true intentions of Satan for this world and wisely chooses to stay unaffected by them.
    • This idea that Satan can put Jews in power implies that God doesn't want Jews in power. But that would also imply that God only wants "Christians" including Hitler, Biden, Pol Pot, Chiang Kai-Shek, etc. 
    • @Mic Drop, I don't buy it. I watched the movie. It has all the hallmarks of the anti-semitic tropes that began to rise precipitously on social media during the last few years - pre-current-Gaza-war. And it has similarities to the same anti-semitic tropes that began to rise in Europe in the 900's to 1100's. It was back in the 500s AD/CE that many Khazars failed to take or keep land they fought for around what's now Ukraine and southern Russia. Khazars with a view to regaining power were still being driven out into the 900's. And therefore they migrated to what's now called Eastern Europe. It's also true that many of their groups converted to Judaism after settling in Eastern Europe. It's possibly also true that they could be hired as mercenaries even after their own designs on empire had dwindled.  But I think the film takes advantage of the fact that so few historical records have ever been considered reliable by the West when it comes to these regions. So it's easy to fill the vacuum with some very old antisemitic claims, fables, rumors, etc..  The mention of Eisenhower in the movie was kind of a giveaway, too. It's like, Oh NO! The United States had a Jew in power once. How on earth could THAT have happened? Could it be . . . SATAN??" Trying to tie a connection back to Babylonian Child Sacrifice Black Magick, Secret Satanism, and Baal worship has long been a trope for those who need to think that no Jews like the Rothschilds and Eisenhowers (????) etc would not have been able to get into power in otherwise "Christian" nations without help from Satan.    Does child sacrifice actually work to gain power?? Does drinking blood? Does pedophilia??? (also mentioned in the movie) Yes, it's an evil world and many people have evil ideologies based on greed and lust and ego. But how exactly does child sacrifice or pedophilia or drinking blood produce a more powerful nation or cabal of some kind? To me that's a giveaway that the authors know that the appeal will be to people who don't really care about actual historical evidence. Also, the author(s) of the video proved that they have not done much homework, but are just trying to fill that supposed knowledge gap by grasping at old paranoid and prejudicial premises. (BTW, my mother and grandmother, in 1941 and 1942, sat next to Dwight Eisenhower's mother at an assembly of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Eisenhower family had been involved in a couple of "Christian" religions and a couple of them associated with IBSA and JWs for many years.)
  • Members

    • Pudgy

      Pudgy 2,380

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • T.J

      T.J 0

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
  • Recent Status Updates

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      158.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,669
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    Miracle Pete
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.