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At what moment "The Truth" has ceased to be "The Truth"?


Srecko Sostar

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To prevent such errors, elders should tell also date of bird and ID number, his nick name if he has such.... and of course name of mother and father of particular person....., perhaps it would not be bad idea also to give names of other family members, wife, children

Funny you should mention that, Sreko Sostar ... the WTB&TS is currently building a data base, called "Publishers ID",  where everything about every Jehovah's Witness on Earth is planned to be assembled ... they are working on it now, or possibly completed the database structure.

JW.org _Publisher ID_ - leaked video 1-of-4.mp4

As time goes on, of course, many Publishers will try to avoid the .BORG ... er .. .ORG knowing everything about them, and will try evasive tactics, such as assuming new names, so it may become necessary to tattoo their Publisher's I.D. Numbers on the inside of their left forearms.

Resistance will be futile.

 

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I understand your points and you have expressed them very well. I will address each point you raised separately, but first I just want to mention a few general things which have perhaps shaped the per

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them. Kids suffer

I think this point showed excellent insight. I wondered if this is what you meant from the start. The very context shows that the type of leadership in this case is more like the local elders rather t

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13 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Before I was baptized I thought that you can always question every JW doctrine and that the Watchtower will always have scripturaly based answers for their doctrines. So I felt safe to be baptized. But I did not know that after you are baptized you have no more right to question the truthfulness of any doctine. And if you don't understand their explanation you have to comply anyway. 

If I had known that the WT-organization works like that, I doubt I had been baptized. 

To the contrary I heard the circuit overseer explain how honest and sincere the WT organization is. He claimed in a speech that if a person finds a fault in WT doctine and can show it from the Bible, then absolutely the WT organization will change the doctrine. 

It was with this mind I was baptized. But it became evident that that is not how the WT org works. When I had found scriptural evidence against some WT doctrines I wanted to show my elders. They came to my place, but they refused to look at my findings. They refused to look at the scriptures I wanted to show them. They were not going to examine the scriptures. I was amazed, what was going on? Now I understand that elders act according to WT procedures. They don't think about what is right or true. The only thing that matters to them is to obey the GB. The Bible and the truth comes always on the second place. 

That is the moment when the truth has ceased to be the truth. 

Actually the elders even openly at the meerings said that the unity is more important than the truth. They justify that with saying that Jehovah will anyway later correct everything.

But where will the elders and GB be when Jehovah corrects what it wrong? They might as well find themselves in trouble. 

As Bible-history shows, those who opposed truth tellers in the past got in trouble.

Your comment is perfect, and so true.

When i have said these things I have been greatly criticized. You are almost saying as i have said. The Elders are only puppets for the GB.  The Elders do not want to think for themselves. They only want to keep their positions of power in the Organisation. 

And the GB and it's puppet Elders are only interested in making the JW Organisation 'look good' from the outside.

How right Jesus was when he explained to clean the inside of the bowl or dish so that the outside would also be clean. 

As a note, my wife is not baptised because she doesn't want to be controlled by the Elders or the GB.  She realised a long time ago the same things you are saying. 

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7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I asked my best friend, also named Tom, how deep the water was and he said "Nine Feet"....Unfortunately the pool was a uniform three feet deep, and I landed HARD flat on my back, which knocked out my air, and I surfaced far less dramatically.

This is the epitome of “apostate lie” and you know it!

No person named Tom would ever do such a thing! A Bill or a Bob or a Sam, maybe, but never a Tom!

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12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

No. All you have to do is refrain from campaigning against them. 

You can cheerlead if you want. Many brothers do. But you certainly don't have to. 

 

What rubbish you write. Complying has nothing to do with cheerleading or campaigning against. 

Complying means obeying rules laid down by others. In this case it's the GB and the puppet Elders laying down the rules for all JW's to obey.  It's quite simple OBEY or GET DISFELLOWSHIPPED.  There are no other options in the JW Org.  

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10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is something about the inability to distinguish between what is important and what is not that I will never understand. It is closely associated with the inability to distinguish between the traffic cop's direction about best motoring from the orders of Hitler to gas millions.

If you are going to use the grandiose terminology that you do, use it over things deserving of it.

Dear old Tom. It is you that cannot distinguish between what is important and what is not. 

The fact that people have probably died because of lies told by your GB and the puppet Elders. 

And the fact that your GB act like Hitler giving orders which result in disfellowshipping people, which is in fact, in the eyes of the GB, killing people spiritually, which will eventually kill them physically at Armageddon. 

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@James Thomas Rook Jr........ they announced from the platforms that it was I who had been disfellowshipped.

It was then I permanently lost all the friends I had grown up with in the "Truth", but I was working in California, and did not find out until I returned home, to Richmond, Virginia.

So would you tell me please what is your position in or out of the JW Org right now ? 

You've probs already done this but my brain just goes and all becomes so fuzzy. I'm only 69, is it dementia already ? 

 

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15 hours ago, Witness said:

Multiply Kosonen’s experience hundreds of times over, and you, SM, will see why the GB’s apparent contrite, humble words that they are not inspired,and can ( I say “prone” to) err in doctrine…..IS A BIG DEAL. 

Kosonen experience does not define the experience as all of them, for in doing so it is sheer demonizing a whole community for the actions of a few, which is a constant even outside of religion and people need to be constantly reminded as to why doing such is bad and clearly I am not a fan of such type of mentality, one of which that is very obvious around the world today whereas harassing a specific group in question, even going as far as to commit hate crimes even killing them is justified out of fear, one example regarding a school I will never forget what one woman said while disgruntled ones, influence by people with such a view, tried to make it seem the actions of a sole individual is justification to attack a whole group.

How so, when Christians today who do errors, why not say such of them when they too understand they are not inspired and not infallible? I can bring up several examples on many, even you, if need be, and I have given examples on my part on my behalf in this regard also.

That being said, you do not have to agree with them, which is understandable and evident, but to accept and even pull information from ones who make the claim of an inspired prophet when the truth of the mater is they are not, even going as far as to not know what a prophet and an inspired prophet is in difference and using that as the stone to your structure will only cause whatever you are pushing to fall. as I told you before, you stumble upon yourself.

If you actually understand the difference between a prophet and a prophet not inspired, you recognize, if you uphold the the Words from the Bible you are too a prophet one with spiritual gifts, clearly not an inspired one, which is the case with Christians today.

 

Moreover, granted the history of Non-Trinitarians also known as Anti-Trinitarians, they have made errors, but they would never, ever take to the grave with them the claim of being an inspired prophet - ever.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

You have spent much time covering inspired prophets vs. uninspired prophets.  As I said, among His people, God doesn’t make a distinction.  He calls His prophets, “prophets”.  If they “proclaim” a message in His name and it doesn’t come true, He refers to them as “false prophets”.   Deut 18:20-22; Matt 7:15-20

So where does that leave you then, Witness? A prophet (modern  Christian), you who proclaimed Orderly Worship in a different light, an accursed one, rather than the what the church itself has done as history proved evident in, in which you are clearly attacking those who uphold such Order, what of that? Was it not you who was on the opposite side adhering the Great Commission when such is a command from the Lord, Christ Jesus himself? A prophet who is mixing things around to justified his views based on opinions and emotions instead of what the Bible says, thus putting in application man's understanding of a verse and or passage, what of that? A prophet who uses a Biblical forgery to make a justification to his views when that this forgery has been debunked by the manuscript and codex evidence, what of this? Using misinformation to accuse someone of wrongdoing when even a former person of that faith gives a shattering refutation that is like that of a revelation to claims you have made, what of that?  Profess to an accursed doctrine that is alien to the church and it applied by those who do not follow any of the teachings from the Bible, what about that brief discussion? Attempted to use someone's mistake and or word against them, and quick to accuse someone for a minor unnecessary thing that they did not see and or was not aware of, what of this? Let alone you proclaiming that God allowing Satan to help in Egypt by means of a single verse, so I ask, what of you if this was the case to instantly assume someone is a false prophet?

You said it best:

15 hours ago, Witness said:

IS A BIG DEAL. 

For it we must go there, discernment and false prophets, by all means saith thy word and it shall be done.

For if I need to remind you, you were proclaiming something(s) that has never originated with the church at all. So if we are to apply the false prophet claim, it can and will be directed to you.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 - [20] But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ [21] And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— [22] when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Matthew 7:15-20 - A Tree and Its Fruit - [15] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [16] You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. [18] A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. [19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

So with the verses you provided and your claims mentioned above - what can someone say about you, granted Christians are prophets who profess by means of spiritual gifts and clearly not by miraculous gifts that inspired prophets have, in this regard, what can you say about yourself, who knowingly made such claims in response?

Clearly you are not one and although I tend to be strict, as I told you before, I see you as someone misguided and a small spark of hatred in you and haven't even pushed the claim you make towards your counterparts - demonic influence (especially with the verse regarding Satan doing God's bidding, according to your previous interpretation). Someone who continues to stumble and eat and believe the words of even those who speak conspiracy and someone, you, who remains ignorant of the view of early Christians and the early Church, even going as far as to seclude all of them by hold focus to one, and being clearly one-sided about it. Stand back up because as I see it, you keep on falling to the ground on to yourself (Proverbs 24:16)

That being said I suggest you think about who is a prophet and who is a false prophet because it remains in contradiction to what you have professed which, if we go by your understanding, puts you in that same category of one being a False Prophet.

Now one thing for certain, to be brief of course, in religion, a false prophet is one who falsely claims the gift of prophecy or divine inspiration, or who uses that gift for evil ends. Often, someone who is considered a "true prophet" by some people is simultaneously considered a "false prophet" by others, even within the same religion as the "prophet" in question.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Are you neglecting the weightier matters of the law of Christ: justice and mercy and faith, as the GB and elder body have?

Clearly I speak the truth in this matter and do not use books produce by them to justify a claim that is proven to be untrue, with evidence that even ranges back top the 1870s - it does not get any much clearer than that. After all you lead me to the very source of your information that even speaks of them as being inspired prophets when clearly they are not.

ALL Christians who adhere to what is true are spirit led, they are not inspired and infallible - if you truly read the Bible, you'd realize that and what position you are in as a Christian.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

The organization’s leadership are blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! 

And yet they are still here, and they are clearly targets of Babylon, that is, if you are aware of everything regarding Christianity that took place from the 2000s and onward, and what went down mid-2015 to now.

People know who is on a conquest for peace. They know who is on the conquest for security. As a source of mine, Solider of God puts it, Christians who are unaware of these things, will easily be swept away by it, which such an example can be pinned on you as per our last discussions. For if Orderly Worship of the Church is vastly different from your view of what is Orderly, who's to say you yourself understand what the Kingdom is all about when you adhere to something that isn't of the Kingdom - should we take such route if need be?

15 hours ago, Witness said:

Look at the broader picture, SM, and the damage done to those who follow blind, empty teachings, that leaves one in the DARK.   Matt 23:23,24; 1 John 1:5

So what of the current JWs who are on this forum right now, the ones who also make a response to you?

Unlike you, I have enough sense to understand what is right and what isn't right, I understand where someone is coming from and I am very aware of what is a false teaching, what is accursed, what is of the church or not.

If you really want to help people know who God is, perhaps next time you would not be against what the Great Commission is all about, as per our last discussion, in doing so, you yourself put people in the Dark. As I told you before, in Bangkok, Thailand, there are people who has no idea what the bible is or who God is, some who do not even understand, as to what justice is in on your part to not spread the good news gospel and the Messianic Age? The Bible tells you to spread the message, even by means of a command, the Great Commission, why remain do the opposite when claiming to be a professes Christian, who is to spread the message?

If it is anyone who is leading people in the dark, in all honesty, it will have to be you. Jesus gave you a command, and by following the Christ, you must adhere to that command. Jesus entrusted the church also to do the same and to bind and loosen, you should be very aware of such things.

And lastly, you need to understand what the spiritual gifts are because if you do not know that Christians are like prophets for proclaiming the message, knowing they are spirit led, clearly you have to do more research and read more.

That being said, understand what a false prophet is and who does fist that category, and perhaps re-think all the other things you said previously granted you added those verses of false prophets by your own hand.

God's followers even in early ancient times make mistakes, but they are not false ones. As with us all today; for some of us learn, someone us stand back up and try to do what is right in God's eyes and apply and learn from the Scriptures as we progress into the End Times.

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To prevent such errors, elders should tell also date of bird and ID number, his nick name if he has such.... and of course name of mother and father of particular person....., perhaps it would not be bad idea also to give names of other family members, wife, children ... to prevent any mistakes about who they speaking about.

Hmmm........that seems to be what child abuse mudslingers would like done. .........it might prevent mistaken identities, but what about mistaken judgements?

PS. "Date of bird" where I come from means "How long did you spend in jail?"

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Oh dear S. M. you do love to fill the page with words, don't you. Repeating the same old stuff over and over again.

You are a parrot. You read things and repeat it.  YOU DO NOT HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE OF IT. 

Yes the GB and JW Org are still there but they are in trouble, not from Christendom, but from ex members who have suffered and now see the truth. Ex members of JW Org and even some current members in disguise, make known the disgusting things that go on in the JW Org. The protests that you hate are by people that have been hurt by the GB rules. Some of them find it hard to hold back their pain so release it in a negative way.  That is wrong of course but it shows the pain they feel.

You seem to be 'playing it safe' by being a Unitarian and also supporting the JW's. You also seem to support other religions, even Islam. 

What makes you think that any of us do not make God's word known. Are we not even here speaking up for what is right in God's eyes ? 

BUT we do not invite people into a known danger, or a known Organisation that teaches lies and pretends to be guided by God. 

Do not be mistaken, Jehovah's Witnesses and their GB, DO NOT OWN GOD. We can serve God through Jesus Christ and we do not need that Organisation. 

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3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And the fact that your GB act like Hitler giving orders which result in disfellowshipping people, which is in fact, in the eyes of the GB, killing people spiritually, which will eventually kill them physically at Armageddon. 

JWs of that time would been most grateful had Hitler disfellowshipped them and thereafter treated them as though they did not exist. As it was, he went well beyond “killing them spiritually.”

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