2 Corinthians 5:20 - "Substitute" or "Supplicate"?

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, Anna said:

 

On 9/22/2018 at 2:24 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

  I'm saying it's the GB that have put themselves in place of Jesus Christ as mediator.

You are saying that indeed, and I am sorry you got that impression because the GB don't view themselves that way. So what gives you that impression?

Well Anna, i see that in this way.

Perhaps it is true how GB nowhere say this in such  way and by that your impression is correct. But answer on the question, "Do GB view themselves in that way, as "substitution for" Jesus?" is something that in private conversation will be interesting to hear. And then our "impression" would/will be more clear.  

Therefore, we are ambassadors+ substituting for Christ,+ as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” - 2. Cor. 5:20 nwt

In Interlinear Translation (by WT) there is Greek word translated with "we are supplicating over Christ".

supplicate

see definition of supplicate

• verb ask for, pray for

Synonyms for supplicate

verb ask for, pray for

• appeal
• beg
• beseech
• desire
• petition
• pray
• seek
• solicit
• put in for

 

Well, how NWT Translation came from supplicate to substitute????

The word supplication is directly related to the simple verb for “to bind” (Matthew 18:18). Wherever you encounter the term “supplication,” it is presenting to us that kind of prayer where we come to the Lord and move into the dimension of controlling by the power of God that which is uncontrollable by human power. - source from web

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well Anna, i see that in this way.

Perhaps it is true how GB nowhere say this in such  way and by that your impression is correct. But answer on the question, "Do GB view themselves in that way, as "substitution for" Jesus?" is something that in private conversation will be interesting to hear. And then our "impression" would/will be more clear.  

Therefore, we are ambassadors+ substituting for Christ,+ as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” - 2. Cor. 5:20 nwt

In Interlinear Translation (by WT) there is Greek word translated with "we are supplicating over Christ".

supplicate

see definition of supplicate

• verb ask for, pray for

Synonyms for supplicate

verb ask for, pray for

• appeal
• beg
• beseech
• desire
• petition
• pray
• seek
• solicit
• put in for

 

Well, how NWT Translation came from supplicate to substitute????

The word supplication is directly related to the simple verb for “to bind” (Matthew 18:18). Wherever you encounter the term “supplication,” it is presenting to us that kind of prayer where we come to the Lord and move into the dimension of controlling by the power of God that which is uncontrollable by human power. - source from web

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/5-20.htm

Very interesting indeed. 

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, how NWT Translation came from supplicate to substitute

Not a comprehensible question in the context of your post.

Christians serve as "ambassadors" in 2Cor.5:20 parlance. An ambassador appears to still carry the meaning of a governmental representative (or "substitute" for the same ) I believe. A particular task assigned to Christian ambassadors as described in the statement at 2Cor.5:20 is to "beseech" or "entreat" others to become reconciled to God through Christ. The word "supplicate" has a relevance to both of those words, but not to the word "substitute".

So as far as 2Cor.5:20 is concerned, Christians substitute for (represent) Christ in the activity of beseeching or entreating (supplicating) others to become reconciled to God. This appears to harmonise with the comission given by Jesus to his followers at Matthew 28:18-20. (compare Matt.25:40).

[The Librarian]

In case anyone wonders... this topic forked from an earlier one here:

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:02 PM, Gone Away said:

Christians serve as "ambassadors"

This is very common attribute in JW circle that some JW like to apply on each other. How many ambassadors serving in one foreign land? One i think. So for today World Jesus need only cca 238  (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html) ambassadors to represent Jesus Kingdom. 

Or WT can build 238 Betel for each country, and with some number of stuff working there you need some 2380-7140 people who will support Kingdom interest before devil worldly kings, presidents and dictators. All other Kingdom population can do something but can not be ambassadors. What all Kingdom people can do, and have do is to PRAY, or as verse say, to SUPPLICATE for each other and for unbelievers.     :))

[Space Merchant]

@Gone Away They do not know Greek Strong's so they remain unaware of words being in respects to the Greek Strong's number itself.

@Srecko Sostar @JOHN BUTLER The both of you take a good look at the Strong's. It is only a Hebraic and or Greek violation if the word is not in connection with the Strong's in question, therefore, anyone who speaks of error never pays attention to the Strong's

• http://www.godrules.net/library/strongs2b/gre2644.htm
• http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/2-corinthians/5.html
• https://biblehub.com/lexicon/2_corinthians/5-20.htm
• https://biblehub.com/greek/2644.htm
• https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/2co/5/1/t_conc_1083020
• https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2644&t=ESV

The view is simple, Apostle Paul referred to himself as an ambassador, for of whom is representing Christ to the people of his day to the Christians. We know of this because of We know of this because of Ephesians 6:19, 20 as well as Philippians 3:20. 2 Corinthians 5:20, it is believed by many Christians that our Lord, Christ Jesus, is a King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, and the ones like Paul, ambassadors, must announce this to the people and or nations, take a good look at verses like Matthew 24:14 and Revelation 11:15. Ambassadors are pretty much neutral and don't have any corrals of countries to which they are sent. The very reason if you get fully what not being part of the world is in this sense, you'd both realize that obligation you make with God and His Christ vs. that of internal affairs of countries of which you are of and or sent by.

On 9/23/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/5-20.htm

Very interesting indeed. 

You find that interesting, it is far more interesting to read what is said if you scroll down on that specific link.

https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-20.htm

Have you bothered to check the Strong's in that same link you also addressed?

[Space Merchant]

@Srecko Sostar He isn't wrong, we announce the Christ of which the gospel speaks of, and what our early Christian counterparts have done, like Paul - we are ambassadors. You liked John's message when he linked Biblehub, did you not read what it said below about ambassadors - the commentary?

[Evacuated]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is very common attribute in JW circle that some JW like to apply on each other. How many ambassadors serving in one foreign land? One i think. So for today World Jesus need only cca 238  (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html) ambassadors to represent Jesus Kingdom. 

Silly is the only word to describe this kind of reponse. Either it reflects a lack of knowledge of the scripture, or an attempt to confuse those who suffer from that lack. Galatians 3:28 makes clear that

"There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female: for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus."

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or WT can build 238 Betel for each country, and with some number of stuff working there you need some 2380-7140 people who will support Kingdom interest before devil worldly kings, presidents and dictators. All other Kingdom population can do something but can not be ambassadors. What all Kingdom people can do, and have do is to PRAY, or as verse say, to SUPPLICATE for each other and for unbelievers.     :))

Ovo, ne razumijem?

[Space Merchant]

@Gone Away Well you cannot expect much from a man who says money is evil yet has the audacity to say he agrees with passages like Matthew 17:24–27, or or birds providing him with internet access and other resources, or somehow you need to be a doctor/therapist/witch doctor (of which I find a tad bit offensive) to be in affiliation with a boys and girls club type of group and or community; helping young ones with addictions, or someone who believes a woman named Chloe (mentioned only ONCE in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 1:11) is the head of the Church in Corinth, and yet refuses to give legitimate proof and or any information of such.

And we have the recent Peter was under temptation when Jesus was about to be apprehended/arrested, which is unfounded, not even a shred of info to which bears this connection.

The funny thing about Biblehub is no one pays attention to commentary, the fact that it shows in the both of these misguided ones, who agree with each other and say they read the Bible, is rather telling.

People can make mistakes and or in error of something from a source or two and make the correction. But to remain totally unaware of this small information and being ignorant to what is true continuously, is indeed something that has to be worked on. Mind you, no one here is even irritate to stumble upon their own information.

 

You may want to check out what he says of Galatians 3:28 regarding anything in connection with Paul - the water in the glass cup does not hold for him.