Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses

[TrueTomHarley]

In hindsight I spoke too sharply to @admin. I apologize to him.

He is our host after all. I appreciate it that he puts up with us.

[Paul Dedee]

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I quite love how, even though I explain my self fully in English everyone should be able to understand, people still love to misquote me or to pretend that I've said something. 

An example here. 

This would mean, you are personal holding Christ responsible for the things people do. That has become your rallying cry.

What utter nonsense. I have love for God and His son Jesus Christ. I would not blame either for the way people act. 

However, I do question people that pretend to be receiving direct instruction from either of those, from above. Especially when they get things all wrong, and also mistreat the ones they are supposed to be helping. 

 "...they find your attacks offensive... " Well the Pharisees found Jesus offensive too. Truth very often hurts. 

Then you can understand what nonsense is. In all fairness, that can be ascertained by an opposing view. As for Jesus being offensive, he was a perfect man and a symbol for the truth, whereas you are not. So, there is no comparison to the behavior you are applying for the truth as you see it. Jesus experience is documented in scripture. Is yours?

But, it seems that’s where the line is drawn with some people when insults without provocation lead them to automatically assume right (truth) is on their side.

Perhaps you can be civil with your response, and not show hatred upon your fellow man just because there is no redemption through them. The owner is correct to suggest, people like yourself should move on, and find a religion you can accept to worship God and Christ the correct way. None of the arguments posted are noteworthy in Christian life, and I believe that is a road you seek.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

....

6 hours ago, Paul Dedee said:

Perhaps you can be civil with your response, and not show hatred upon your fellow man just because there is no redemption through them. The owner is correct to suggest, people like yourself should move on, and find a religion you can accept to worship God and Christ the correct way.

 

Lost_.mp4The Muppet Movie (1979)_ 13_40 - 14_15 (1080p).mp4

 

In my own way, I understand where John Butler is coming from .. as I have a deep love for humanity.

It's PEOPLE I can't stand.

 

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE ALL THAT.  It's hype. They are conditioned to 'like the programme'. We were all expected to applaud. 

Honestly, John, I don't know why you act as though I am your adversary. Have I not stated that they wet themselves at the thought an elder may glower at them?

I will go further to confess what I have never confessed before. Our BOE used to rent a prison bus to round up the publishers and make them go to the convention. They made me drive. I didn't want to, but they made me. Also, when they told me I had to drive, they made me applaud their words until I thought my hands would fall off. 

They publishers didn't want to go. None of them did. They used to hide in the bushes when they saw me pulling up in the prison bus. But the elders had ordered me to stuff them in nice clothes by force when necessary. Oh, how my conscience torments me not. I hate them I hate them I hate them

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

That kids are ordered to answer up in Watchtower studies and made to pre-study for hours and write down long answers, which in truth they don't even understand. They just answer parrot fashion. 

That's nothing! I have seen children actually confined in oversized parrot cages until they finished studying their lessons, at which time, if they were lucky, they might be fed a cracker.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

13 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

That's nothing! I have seen children actually confined in oversized parrot cages until they finished studying their lessons, at which time, if they were lucky, they might be fed a cracker.

I used to place a LOT of Watchtower and Awake! Magazines with: 

" And you know, they are the PERFECT size to line the bottom of your bird cage .... be sure you read them BEFORE you give them to your bird!"

Alien Song I will survive.mp4

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Paul Dedee said:

Jesus experience is documented in scripture. Is yours?

..very funny but a little silly to ask such.  If John Butler in his trying to imitate Jesus sometimes compare own acts with that of Jesus, what is bad in that? Many christian people doing the same, even JW members doing the same on global scale (Conventions for example)

If some JW or fading JW or exJW came to this or that conclusions (wrong, right, questionable, too intensive) on some issues, that is quite normal for every human. The day will come when person maybe change his thoughts in some other direction. 

I ask my self sometimes also, Why i participate in discussions like this one on this forum. I will never come back to JWorg so why i have to or need to involved myself in this. Maybe 40+ years in this religion is reason. Or i need more time to cut all mental and emotional  connections, nexus and memories. Must be a process. Something else, perhaps my profile make me to act in this manner. World is bigger than me and bigger than WT. Life is around us and will be without me and without WTJWorg too.

I hope i will lose interest on JW subject and get some life that is somewhere here, but i have to find this space/time dimension :))))))))) and Shuttle rocket. What you think, is there hope for me? :))))) 

     

[JOHN BUTLER]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

..very funny but a little silly to ask such.  If John Butler in his trying to imitate Jesus sometimes compare own acts with that of Jesus, what is bad in that? Many christian people doing the same, even JW members doing the same on global scale (Conventions for example)

If some JW or fading JW or exJW came to this or that conclusions (wrong, right, questionable, too intensive) on some issues, that is quite normal for every human. The day will come when person maybe change his thoughts in some other direction. 

I ask my self sometimes also, Why i participate in discussions like this one on this forum. I will never come back to JWorg so why i have to or need to involved myself in this. Maybe 40+ years in this religion is reason. Or i need more time to cut all mental and emotional  connections, nexus and memories. Must be a process. Something else, perhaps my profile make me to act in this manner. World is bigger than me and bigger than WT. Life is around us and will be without me and without WTJWorg too.

I hope i will lose interest on JW subject and get some life that is somewhere here, but i have to find this space/time dimension :))))))))) and Shuttle rocket. What you think, is there hope for me? :))))) 

     

Srecko, never say never. Do not shut any doors and do not burn any bridges. Just imagine if the JW Org did get cleaned up by God. Imagine that God removed the GB for misconduct. Imagine that  God removed all the wicked Elders and replaced the GB and the bad Elders with honest hearted ones. You and i could return to the Org with a clear conscience. And with God's mercy and guidance of his holy spirit, we may even make it through Armageddon. Never give up hope Strecko. No one knows who will live or die. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Honestly, John, I don't know why you act as though I am your adversary. Have I not stated that they wet themselves at the thought an elder may glower at them?

I will go further to confess what I have never confessed before. Our BOE used to rent a prison bus to round up the publishers and make them go to the convention. They made me drive. I didn't want to, but they made me. Also, when they told me I had to drive, they made me applaud their words until I thought my hands would fall off. 

They publishers didn't want to go. None of them did. They used to hide in the bushes when they saw me pulling up in the prison bus. But the elders had ordered me to stuff them in nice clothes by force when necessary. Oh, how my conscience torments me not. I hate them I hate them I hate them

That's nothing! I have seen children actually confined in oversized parrot cages until they finished studying their lessons, at which time, if they were lucky, they might be fed a cracker.

Mr Tom you are a comedian through and through. But of course you do it to undermine the points i make.

Turn something serious into a joke and some people may just follow you and dismiss my comments as not important.

Well I'm not affected by it as I am pleased with myself for making things known.

What people do with true information is up to them. 

[JOHN BUTLER]

11 hours ago, Paul Dedee said:

Then you can understand what nonsense is. In all fairness, that can be ascertained by an opposing view. As for Jesus being offensive, he was a perfect man and a symbol for the truth, whereas you are not. So, there is no comparison to the behavior you are applying for the truth as you see it. Jesus experience is documented in scripture. Is yours?

But, it seems that’s where the line is drawn with some people when insults without provocation lead them to automatically assume right (truth) is on their side.

Perhaps you can be civil with your response, and not show hatred upon your fellow man just because there is no redemption through them. The owner is correct to suggest, people like yourself should move on, and find a religion you can accept to worship God and Christ the correct way. None of the arguments posted are noteworthy in Christian life, and I believe that is a road you seek.

I think you deliberately misquote or miss the point of my comments.

The point wasn't that Jesus 'was' offensive. The point was that the Pharisees didn't like the truth from Jesus, so the Pharisees found the truth from Jesus to be offensive.

However Paul, keep on keeping on as you seem to enjoy it. 

[TrueTomHarley]

A little ‘gem’ from this week’s Bible reading:

John 11:21 “Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.”

Jesus had had two days advance notice, yet he just sat there. (vs 6) Martha did not have to respond as she did. Could she not have ‘gone apostate’ and yelled: ‘What in the world is wrong with you?! You might as well have killed him yourself!’

[TrueTomHarley]

Huh! Here is another one. Where have we seen the parallel of this before?

45 Therefore, many of the Jews who had come to Mary and who saw what he did [raised Lazarus from the dead] put faith in him,  46 but some of them went off to the Pharisees and told them what Jesus had done.  47 So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the Sanʹhe·drin together and said: “What are we to do, for this man performs many signs?  48 If we let him go on this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.”  49 But one of them, Caʹia·phas, who was high priest that year, said to them: “You do not know anything at all,  50 and you have not reasoned that it is to your benefit for one man to die in behalf of the people rather than for the whole nation to be destroyed.”  51 He did not say this, however, of his own originality, but because he was high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation,  52 and not only for the nation but also to gather together into one the children of God who were scattered about.  

He was going to kill Jesus himself so as to protect his own career! So he tries to pre-spin it as some holy event!

[Judith Sweeney]

 Who cares what "john butler" does or says?  I cannot stand a cry baby.   All of his beesmerching of people who really Try to live according to the Bible and do the right thing, just insults the Faithful.  This especially insults the faithful who have been imprisoned and faced yes, even death to adhere to their faith.