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Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses

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20 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now. You wrote. "The demand for those documents by Zalkin was a farce and was eventually overturned" 

So you are admitting 'those document 'exist. 

 

Yes, of course there are documents, no one has ever denied that. A report is written after any judicial committee, there has to be order. Correspondence and all other pertinent communication is saved, that is a normal procedure with ANY establishment. I really do not understand why you would think otherwise.....

20 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are we talking here about twenty years worth of Child Abuse Accusations Documents concerning the USA ? 

Are we talking about Child Abuse accusations that were never reported to the Police ?  

Both of course.

20 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In my honest opinion i don't think the American government or FBI give a damn. The JW Org is not a threat to them so they don't care. 

Yes, that is your opinion. But the opinion of many others is that JW org. are a threat to children. That children get molested at every KH and that those molesters get away scot free, and therefore pose a threat to the rest of society. I would say that is a pretty serious threat!  If you looked at that link, the FBI got involved in a much less serious case, and a single case at that! If the FBI thought the organization held important secret documents involving a ring of pedophilia, they would try and get them. Child sexual molestation is a crime, and surely those who protect pedophiles are criminals are they not?

20 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

IT SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT WORLDLY LAW. It should be about serving God properly.  Can you not understand that ?

Well obviously the GB don't understand it... 

Yes, I understand that and agree. So could you be a little more specific about where they are failing to serve God properly?

20 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Here is a link which gives some info about what happened here in the UK. But you probably won't believe it. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/23/jehovahs-witnesses-charity-drops-attempts-to-block-abuse-inquiry

The JW Org here in the UK spent over two years trying to block the Charity Commission's investigation. WHY?

I have read about this before. I have a why question for you too. The report says.........."....the WTBTS had shared some of the documents it had been seeking and the commission had since cancelled the production order. WHY do you think that is? Why would a commission cancel an order? Think about it logically. It can't be because they are giving up on the children surely? So there must be another reason. I know what it is. But I would like you to figure it out.

20 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Again your write :- 

Trust me, the GB are not too frightened to cooperate with police and official bodies.

So why oh why don't they fully cooperate with all the investigations Earthwide ? 

As far as I know they have cooperated with every investigation, such as the ARC including the charity commission you mention in the link:

A spokesman for the WTBTS said: “In light of the progress of the inquiry and the information obtained by the commission from Watch Tower and other sources, the commission has agreed to revoke the production order. Watch Tower has therefore agreed to withdraw its application for judicial review of the production order and a consent order has been filed with the high court to conclude the proceedings.

“Watch Tower will now work with the commission to explore the issues that are the subject of the statutory inquiry and to address the commission’s regulatory concerns.”

As for those documents Zalkin wanted WT to produce, he had no right to them whatsoever. He only wanted them because of $$$$ for himself.

You are being little naive if you think otherwise. Why don’t you email Zalkin and ask him what percentage of the litigation money did poor Jose Lopez get after the settlement? He can’t divulge the amount, but he can surely give you a percentage. That’s if he will even reply to a small fry like you. You’ve got to know corporate America where they charge you for every fart. I’ve lived here for 12 years and I was shocked that you can’t even hold your own baby after giving birth without being charged. Lawyers and doctors are the biggest money makers. You probably wouldn’t understand until you lived here. Zalkin makes the best use of the media to his benefit, to make money of course.

Interestingly on Zalkin’s website he makes this statement under the FA&Q section:

Q:  If I tell my story of what happened as child abuse I suffered, does the lawyer have to report it?

A: I'm often asked the question "If I tell my story of what happened as child abuse I suffered, does the lawyer have to report it?" And the answer is No. Lawyers are not mandated reporters. In fact there are very strict laws in all states that require lawyers to maintain confidential information that is communicated to them by a client or a potential client. Without the permission of that client, the lawyer cannot make any revelation of any of those communications. There's a strict confidentiality requirement. So telling a lawyer your story does not mean that the lawyer will then go and report that story. That lawyer cannot do that.

----------------------

That means a Lawyer cannot report a child molester unless the victim agrees to it. Not so long ago, members of the clergy were not mandated reporters either. This has changed in most states of the USA now. In view of that, elders, (who are considered clergy by the outside world), were not mandated reporters and as such were under no obligation to report a child molester or give any information to anyone, just like the lawyers. Disclosures by child molestation victims were held confidential, just like with the lawyers. Many of these cases are 10, 20, 30 years old when elders were not mandated reporters.....

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However now they say they don't know how long a Creative day was. 

yes, WT say so. But despite that, they not want to accept science counting, numbering  when they said how humans are much, much  older then 6000 years. Animals, plants and other organism are counting in millions of years. So, something looks wrong in WT teaching /Bible interpretations/ how human society, starting, beginning of human,  is just 6000 years+ old.   

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12 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

No at all, no copyright issues. The verse can easily be found on the main website of Jehovah's Witnesses' online Library, by simply clicking on the verse it gives you references as well as books and publications regarding the use of this verse and or passage. In a way, it is similar to the other Bible sites but not as complex. The Jehovah's Witnesses online library does not have commentary information, but they do quote people sometimes.

That is true. But if you scroll down to the very bottom of JW.org, under terms of use. Choose copyright. You can see how information should be handled. Witnesses should respect that. This is why the Watchtower allows a participant to direct interested people to view the content posted there. A secondhand or third party can lead to misunderstanding of scriptural interpretation.

Please, don’t get me wrong. I wish you no ill will. The Watchtower would prefer if someone needs to compare something that person can simply state their opinion and direct those to JW.org with whatever article you wish to have looked at. Example, *** w18 December p. 10 par. 1 Honor “What God Has Yoked Together” ***

However, you are doing an excellent job in meeting the Watchtower criteria as to the truth.

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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Animals, plants and other organism are counting in millions of years. So, something looks wrong in WT teaching /Bible interpretations/ how human society, starting, beginning of human,  is just 6000 years+ old.   

You just made the point the Watchtower has. Creationist only believe in the 6000 years whereas the time it took God to create the heavens and earth.

Adam was alone for a period of time after whatever amount of time it took God to create and populate the earth with vegetation and animals. People automatically assume everything was created at the same time.

That’s the conflict between creationist and science. Just like science. If it takes an extreme amount of pressure within age to make a diamond, wouldn’t that theory also be acceptable for dinosaurs? Then science would be mistaken as to how long dinosaurs roamed the earth since fossils would be made just like diamonds.

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2 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

That is true. But if you scroll down to the very bottom of JW.org, under terms of use. Choose copyright. You can see how information should be handled. Witnesses should respect that. This is why the Watchtower allows a participant to direct interested people to view the content posted there. A secondhand or third party can lead to misunderstanding of scriptural interpretation.

Please, don’t get me wrong. I wish you no ill will. The Watchtower would prefer if someone needs to compare something that person can simply state their opinion and direct those to JW.org with whatever article you wish to have looked at. Example, *** w18 December p. 10 par. 1 Honor “What God Has Yoked Together” ***

 

 

However, you are doing an excellent job in meeting the Watchtower criteria as to the truth.

 

Agreed. Because one thing I dislike is slander and dishonesty. I am a Christian myself but I have studied other religions too, mainly when others who are disgruntled speak lies even though they are not of that faith, someone has to step up to speak the truth. It is harder in other places I am affiliated with, like Islam for example, although I am not Muslim, I speak the truth about them too as with anyone else, even Jehovah's Witnesses. As for individuals, the truth must be spoken of about them, among the good and the bad, and among the things I detest the most is the mainstream Christendom who have people like James White.

One thing for certain, disgruntled people and or opponents do not like dealing with those who are knowledgeable, in this sense, even knowing a whole lot about the Bible and as you can see, we have several among the bunch who show their true colors, even more when their own information backfires on them.

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20 hours ago, Space Merchant said:
On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:14 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Yes i think he likes to look very intelligent and knowledgeable to everyone....(His reply: That's because I am)

 

You know, I like this. I just do. I mean, he is. Say it & be done with it & move along, as he does. He is not self-aggrandizing. He doesn't do it to show off. He is merely trying to strike blows for what is truthful.

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Wow! The most outrageous claim I have read to date. Children are being molested at every kingdom hall.

I guess we can compare that with society. Children are being molested at every nation, country of this world. We live in a world where anyone can say whatever they want and make it their truth. Works for me. ?

 

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12 minutes ago, Hankulan Tunani said:

Wow! The most outrageous claim I have read to date. Children are being molested at every kingdom hall.

I guess we can compare that with society. Children are being molested at every nation, country of this world. We live in a world where anyone can say whatever they want and make it their truth. Works for me. ?

 

Not to mention the silly claims such as all the churches of JWs harbor weapons and rifles under their churches and have bunkers at their headquarters. These same disgruntled people also do not know what trust funds are and actually believe the JWs own a portion of Victoria's Secret and Nintendo, when even a former JW who is aware of what trust funds are, explain everything and yet even with this information, it goes in one ear and out the other, mind you this guy was pretty much telling disgruntled JWs this information and they did everything in their power to shut him up.

That being said, I have mention many times here that child abuse and molestation is everywhere, no one is immune to it, but these same people think that this is only among JWs, for we see nowhere that indicates JWs are immune to such things, granted all men is imperfect. But there are better solutions, even when such is explained, it is ignored and people will continue to bring up outrageous claims left and right and think the information to be as pure as gold when it is nothing more an ore stone. One guy brought this up and he has received death threats and fat shaming from disgruntled JWs, one of which who brought the Hate Parade to this man. I believe Mr. Butler or Matthew made mention of this very man who led the charge against a guy wanting to defend his neighborhood from ExJWs.

Other than that, child abuse and the like is disturbing, but as a guy who helps young ones learn what that is, along with stranger danger, I can, and I am sure others also, can think instead of putting hate and pressure into one group, people can be better than hat but they choose not to be better, in this sense.

Well you know what they say about some, hate is like a chain around the necks of people, they will always find something to hate someone or some group not realizing what they dislike is taking place around them, even in their own household in most cases.

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33 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

Not to mention the silly claims such as all the churches of JWs harbor weapons and rifles under their churches and have bunkers at their headquarters. These same disgruntled people also do not know what trust funds are and actually believe the JWs own a portion of Victoria's Secret and Nintendo, when even a former JW who is aware of what trust funds are, explain everything and yet even with this information, it goes in one ear and out the other, mind you this guy was pretty much telling disgruntled JWs this information and they did everything in their power to shut him up.

Whatever happened to the first defense for child abuse is their own parents. It seems parents just like the government decided to push that responsibility to the church. It’s silly to think that any religion would know the personal family life of individuals, just because they are Christian. I wonder who decided Christianity is like programming a robot.

I’d like to see the crystal ball that gives religion that ability. The day science can come up with the ability to read someone else mind, then it will be the fault of the reader for not saying something. Until then, we have to accept there will be some frivolous claims.

Are their victims, there are. But when victims contribute to their own circumstance, what then? Who becomes the victim when lawyers only see money? And prosecutors only see an easy win. And their not interested in the truth as it was with the Supreme Court confirmation hearing. Republicans were never really interested in the truth, just the notch on trumps belt. ?

Now that judge is going to decide on cases that he himself was accused of, that’s man’s judicial system at its best.

It’s funny how Trump supporters screamed innocent until proven guilty, without a judicial conclusion, yet the same mentality suggests guilty until proven innocent for the Watchtower. I do love a circus. ?

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1 minute ago, Hankulan Tunani said:

It’s funny how Trump supporters screamed innocent until proven guilty, without a judicial conclusion, yet the same mentality suggests guilty until proven innocent for the Watchtower. I do love a circus. ?

Well, the Democrats were screaming "guilty until proven innocent".  I watched the whole 9-1/2 hour sad, disgusting thuggery in real time.

Both sides were screaming their viewpoints.

If I accuse you of something vile and despicable, adopting your viewpoint, may I then grab you by the neck and strangle you until you are dead?

If I adopt YOUR philosophy, (which I will not), don't you realize that you are giving me moral permirssion to do EXACTLY THAT?

I am a Barbarian ... with your permission, all I would need is opportunity.

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34 minutes ago, Hankulan Tunani said:

It’s funny how Trump supporters screamed

I could have told you that JTR would instantly jump in to answer this one. I didn't need a crystal ball for that one.

1 hour ago, Hankulan Tunani said:

Wow! The most outrageous claim I have read to date. Children are being molested at every kingdom hall.

Yeah. The opponents are going bonkers. That is why this might have a place somehow:

 

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

These same disgruntled people also do not know what trust funds are and actually believe the JWs own a portion of Victoria's Secret and Nintendo

Really? xD

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Both sides were screaming their viewpoints.

If I accuse you of something vile and despicable, adopting your viewpoint, may I then grab you by the neck and strangle you until you are dead?

Was there a judicial conclusion if you saw both sides make their argument? Even if you are not a vampire would I become you into my house, much less give you permission to kill me as you suggest.

This view goes beyond Christian life. So, I will not interact with silliness.

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The Senate Confirmation Hearing was not SUPPOSED to be a "Salem Witch Trial" .... but it was. 

The Senate Hearing on Thursday was to advise and consent the full Senate for the Supreme Court nominee by Trump to go forward to a vote by the full Senate, to confirm or deny Trump's pick as HIS choice, for Supreme Court Justice.

THAT process is restricted by a "Two hour rule", but the Chairman actually decides when to invoke it. In this case it was about three hours, the following day,  Friday.

This was NOT a Judicial ruling .... a criminal trial where a person could lose his liberty or money. 

It was merely (merely ! ) a collection of blatant, and painfully obvious  EVIL Democrats trying to ruin a reasonably good man's life with unsubstantiated accusations, with absolutely NO credibility or corroboration, in a carefully orchestrated plan to completely destroy the nominee's confirmation by the Senate ..... and they were willing to completely ruin his life, and reputation FOREVER to try and do it.

They would do ANYTHING to hurt  Trump.  Anything at all.

If you doubt about my observations, analysis and perspective feel free to watch the whole 9-1/2 or so hours on YouTube, so you will even HAVE an educated opinion.

So far, your opinions are ONLY that ... and based on ignorance.

There is a difference between all educated opinions, and all ignorant opinions.

Educated opinions require motivation and hard work ... LOTS of hard work.

Ignorant opinions only require natural ignorance.

 

 

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Firefox_Screenshot_2018-10-12T17-54-07.122Z.png

The fact that you thought my above post as funny PROVES you are totally clueless, and have no idea the consequences of your bogus philosophy, were people not restrained by self-imposed moral and Theocratic concerns.

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