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5 hours ago, Equivocation said:

suit and ties are made by people so I agree with you here, but how does that equal to tradition of men?

Hi! 

I see this subject this way. If somebody made decision, rule (that in KH meeting) how particular clothes and details in clothes are only acceptable (but some other fashion is even forbidden or just "not good")  for people who coming in KH, then after some time, this rule come to be tradition. And in general, with time passing, members will not consider this as just rule but as tradition, folkloric issue, for particular people in particular social group, JW community in this case.   

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My brothers and sisters and I all wear jeans, khaki's, etc and t-shirts/nice shirts during our worship. I do so because while I am worshipping/singing along with the music I can raise my hands to God in worship. Can't do that in a suit and tie which pretty much constricts your movement making you stiff. 

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@Equivocation  Quote " But if a suit and tie is that bad, why are you wearing a suit and tie, let alone clothing if you say it is tradition of man? " 

When i was in the JW Org, I obeyed the rules. Rules of men. I didn't want to deliberately cause trouble or to embarrass my family by being moaned at by the police, sorry I mean Elders, of the congregation. 

We had an Elder in the congregation, a big man, that really suffered with the heat causing him problems. He never wore a jacket or tie in the hall, BUT he still had to wear a suit and tie when he went up on the platform. They had to put a big electric fan on the edge of the stage each time he was on there. So tell me where is the love and consideration for that Elder ?

And yes they didn't question him for not wearing a jacket and tie in the hall, but I did get 'spoken to' once for not wearing a tie, hence in future I conformed. 

In my opinion it becomes 'traditions of men' when it is not scriptural but is still enforced by 'those in power', the GB down to the Elders. 

And yes certain types of clothing are traditions of men if dictated by humans.

This point has been proven by women in certain secular jobs having to wear high heeled shoes all day, when they would prefer to wear flat comfortable shoes. I believe this has got to the point of actual court cases. I think that proves the tradition of MEN in the true sense. 

And the suit and tie was supposed to represent decency, honesty, trustworthiness, etc. But in many cases it was just used to trick people into thinking that way. However, it has been carried forward to this day, as a tradition of men. 

So is it still necessary ? 

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20 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

while I am worshipping/singing along with the music I can raise my hands to God in worship.

Nice. Where is the place you singing this way? 

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@JOHN BUTLER You didn't even answer the question. You said clothing is tradition of men and now you say certain clothing, so which is it or are you just throwing darts to a board, pops?

A red hat is meaningless and a random guy uses it to cover his head, perhaps to cover signs of balding vs. A guy who uses a red hat that reads messages of racism to trigger aggressive response by people at a random bagel shop vs. A guy who sports a red hat to support a political view.

All 3 men, 2 of them having a piece of clothing the represents or stands for something negative and or decisive.

So Tradition of Men is something totally different compared to what you said before.

I suggest thinking it over a glass of water.

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On 1/25/2019 at 8:40 AM, Matthew9969 said:

My brothers and sisters and I all wear jeans, khaki's, etc and t-shirts/nice shirts during our worship. I do so because while I am worshipping/singing along with the music I can raise my hands to God in worship. Can't do that in a suit and tie which pretty much constricts your movement making you stiff. 

Usually depends on the person and their build. What matters is if the clothing isn't out of this world immodest.

People now a days dress up as if they are going to a Crème de la Crème night club when they go to worship God.

My late uncle use to say, if it ain't right with God it shouldn't be right with you.

 

Other than that I can move in a suit just fine.

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On 1/25/2019 at 4:07 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Hi! 

I see this subject this way. If somebody made decision, rule (that in KH meeting) how particular clothes and details in clothes are only acceptable (but some other fashion is even forbidden or just "not good")  for people who coming in KH, then after some time, this rule come to be tradition. And in general, with time passing, members will not consider this as just rule but as tradition, folkloric issue, for particular people in particular social group, JW community in this case.   

So what is your say on mini skirts and dresses and suits that are as tight as a salsa jar cap to the point of tearing out of it like pop eye?

Modest or immodest?

Modesty is honesty, amigo. 

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19 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Usually depends on the person and their build. What matters is if the clothing isn't out of this world immodest.

People now a days dress up as if they are going to a Crème de la Crème night club when they go to worship God.

My late uncle use to say, if it ain't right with God it shouldn't be right with you.

 

Other than that I can move in a suit just fine.

Of course jw men can move just fine while singing along to worship music, they just stand there.

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On 1/29/2019 at 1:21 AM, Equivocation said:

Usually depends on the person and their build. What matters is if the clothing isn't out of this world immodest.

People now a days dress up as if they are going to a Crème de la Crème night club when they go to worship God.

My late uncle use to say, if it ain't right with God it shouldn't be right with you.

 

Other than that I can move in a suit just fine.

Did you ever ask your uncle how he knew what 'was right' with God ? 

Because at JW meetings it isn't God's opinion that is counted, it's the Elders opinions. 

One thing I did always notice was at assemblies, the young ladies / young sisters, well most of them, dressed in a way 'so as to be attractive to men'. Yes a lot of them looked stunning, but probably not modest. However one big reason for those young ladies / young sisters looking that way was the 'need' to find a 'marriage mate' within the JW Org. They found such ones at assemblies. 

It always looked so obviously competitive, and there seemed to be a push by parents to marry off their children. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 5:19 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Did you ever ask your uncle how he knew what 'was right' with God ? 

Because at JW meetings it isn't God's opinion that is counted, it's the Elders opinions. 

One thing I did always notice was at assemblies, the young ladies / young sisters, well most of them, dressed in a way 'so as to be attractive to men'. Yes a lot of them looked stunning, but probably not modest. However one big reason for those young ladies / young sisters looking that way was the 'need' to find a 'marriage mate' within the JW Org. They found such ones at assemblies. 

It always looked so obviously competitive, and there seemed to be a push by parents to marry off their children. 

He knew what was right with God because as he was growing up be read the Bible and applied its teachings. People saw him as a hermit of some sort, but in reality he was the coolest guy I know before his death.

The thing you forget about God is that one thing that can be pulled from his likeness is cleanliness. This also goes for being clean and being modest in attire.

And what's your point on this? You didn't even describe the scenario as modest for there is no issue with that. Immodest dressing would be if someone goes to to the hall or assembly in clothing that is revealing, tight, or to the point of nuditiy. And modesty isn't not just with us, it goes for schools, businesses and other places that uphold this too. There are people whom we sometimes preach to at times will not speak or discuss with you if something's up, especially to us in the Latino community. 

There's no need to rush for marriage. No one forced marriage for anyone, if anything there are parents out there that rush some folks because they want grandchildren, others for different reasons. In my case I am far from marriage but my dad always tells me 18 is the age one can get married if they want to. My dad got married at 22, my mom was 19 going in 20. My uncle married at 34-35.

How is seeking a marriage mate competitive?I didnt know there was a Ring Now: Marriage Edition going on, I never seen that in the channel line ups

All that aside you never made your case of clothing being a tradition of men. This point you make was out of the blue and you never gave answer to that.

I find it funny you are now comparing UK folks to everyone else. Pops, you don't know the Latino Community so stay in the lane you are driving in, remember what you said last time - you don't assume things, and now going against your word tells people something about you, papa bear.

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1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

He knew what was right with God because as he was growing up be read the Bible and applied its teachings. People saw him as a hermit of some sort, but in reality he was the coolest guy I know before his death.

The thing you forget about God is that one thing that can be pulled from his likeness is cleanliness. This also goes for being clean and being modest in attire.

And what's your point on this? You didn't even describe the scenario as modest for there is no issue with that. Immodest dressing would be if someone goes to to the hall or assembly in clothing that is revealing, tight, or to the point of nuditiy. And modesty isn't not just with us, it goes for schools, businesses and other places that uphold this too. There are people whom we sometimes preach to at times will not speak or discuss with you if something's up, especially to us in the Latino community. 

There's no need to rush for marriage. No one forced marriage for anyone, if anything there are parents out there that rush some folks because they want grandchildren, others for different reasons. In my case I am far from marriage but my dad always tells me 18 is the age one can get married if they want to. My dad got married at 22, my mom was 19 going in 20. My uncle married at 34-35.

How is seeking a marriage mate competitive?I didnt know there was a Ring Now: Marriage Edition going on, I never seen that in the channel line ups

All that aside you never made your case of clothing being a tradition of men. This point you make was out of the blue and you never gave answer to that.

I find it funny you are now comparing UK folks to everyone else. Pops, you don't know the Latino Community so stay in the lane you are driving in, remember what you said last time - you don't assume things, and now going against your word tells people something about you, papa bear.

OK Kid. Keep burbling. I like a good laugh. 

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On 2/1/2019 at 11:54 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

OK Kid. Keep burbling. I like a good laugh. 

Loss of words? My uncle isn't someone to be laughed at. Everything I said is also fact. You drive your head too far deep in the sand to not realize not everyone is like you or had the life that you had. Are you this ignorance of others outside the United Kingdom where you live? You must be the life of the party, Johnny 5.

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2 hours ago, Equivocation said:

Loss of words? My uncle isn't someone to be laughed at. Everything I said is also fact. You drive your head too far deep in the sand to not realize not everyone is like you or had the life that you had. Are you this ignorance of others outside the United Kingdom where you live? You must be the life of the party, Johnny 5.

Go back to pretending that you live in the 'hood' with all the coke dealers and gun runners. If that is your dream world so be it. 

If you came from a rough tough background you wouldn't keep using childish names. The bro in de hood would all laugh at you man. 

You ain't no big deal ya dig. 

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22 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Go back to pretending that you live in the 'hood' with all the coke dealers and gun runners. If that is your dream world so be it. 

If you came from a rough tough background you wouldn't keep using childish names. The bro in de hood would all laugh at you man. 

You ain't no big deal ya dig. 

What are you talking about? I live in the borough, small quiet town. When we go to preach we go to another town and or city, the people at times who debate or confront are not even from the hood. What gave you the impression I live in the hood lol?

My background wasn't rough or tough, my uncle on the other hand lived in his country, he never was in the United States. My uncle was murdered when I was 8 and reasons for it it was because of jealous unknown persons that hated him. He was a very good man and had morals and didn't care what others thought of him and what I can say his head was more right than yours because he wasn't the type to drop to your level.

And nothing of that sort is my dream, remember what you said before and now look at you, Johnny. My only goal is to teach people about God and I haven't been in the "hood" as you claim, my other goal that is after keeping God's Kingdom first is to be there for friends and family. But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism. Not all of us Hispanic Americans are from the hood, as you claim. The Latino Community is everywhere, Johnny, even in our own countries. 

The irony you know nothing of the sort and act like you are, so don't pretend, Johnny 5 - you think I can't see that? But what you did here is messed up and it shows who you are and you are a liar because of what you said originally and here we are.

Laugh at me? Even if I did go there or people at school are from there, they don't pay me any mind like that and if they did, it's usually small talk, youd be surprised of people wanting to change their lives and some who have, those who are from the hood. If they have to laugh at someone it will be you, not only by glancing at you, your picture, but how you are trying to "hood talk" youd be on WS, and possibly a meme. They also have a name for people like you.

Gotta love how you attempt to speak like someone who's from there. May I suggest you get your starter's kit on Ebay or Amazon and give it a go? No? I thought so.

For a grown man like you, that's lowkey silly, coming from you.

Childish names? Buddy, Johnny 5 is a wonderful 90s movie. My cousins were 90s kids. Johnny 5 pretends to be human in the movie, and like you are doing here now, Johnny, you are pretending to be hood, when clearly you are not.

And still you can't answer what has been addressed to you and skip to nonsense. Surely you can be more serious than that.

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1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

What are you talking about? I live in the borough, small quiet town. When we go to preach we go to another town and or city, the people at times who debate or confront are not even from the hood. What gave you the impression I live in the hood lol?

My background wasn't rough or tough, my uncle on the other hand lived in his country, he never was in the United States. My uncle was murdered when I was 8 and reasons for it it was because of jealous unknown persons that hated him. He was a very good man and had morals and didn't care what others thought of him and what I can say his head was more right than yours because he wasn't the type to drop to your level.

And nothing of that sort is my dream, remember what you said before and now look at you, Johnny. My only goal is to teach people about God and I haven't been in the "hood" as you claim, my other goal that is after keeping God's Kingdom first is to be there for friends and family. But that's lowkey stereotyping and near the line of racism. Not all of us Hispanic Americans are from the hood, as you claim. The Latino Community is everywhere, Johnny, even in our own countries. 

The irony you know nothing of the sort and act like you are, so don't pretend, Johnny 5 - you think I can't see that? But what you did here is messed up and it shows who you are and you are a liar because of what you said originally and here we are.

Laugh at me? Even if I did go there or people at school are from there, they don't pay me any mind like that and if they did, it's usually small talk, youd be surprised of people wanting to change their lives and some who have, those who are from the hood. If they have to laugh at someone it will be you, not only by glancing at you, your picture, but how you are trying to "hood talk" youd be on WS, and possibly a meme. They also have a name for people like you.

Gotta love how you attempt to speak like someone who's from there. May I suggest you get your starter's kit on Ebay or Amazon and give it a go? No? I thought so.

For a grown man like you, that's lowkey silly, coming from you.

Childish names? Buddy, Johnny 5 is a wonderful 90s movie. My cousins were 90s kids. Johnny 5 pretends to be human in the movie, and like you are doing here now, Johnny, you are pretending to be hood, when clearly you are not.

And still you can't answer what has been addressed to you and skip to nonsense. Surely you can be more serious than that.

I think I remember you saying things like 'people wanted to kill you' etc.  That's living amongst normal people is it ? 

And it's so funny when peeps tell me what i know and what I don't know.

I just wiped out two paragraphs because i don't really need to explain myself to a boy. And I've noticed looking back that you use racism in your comments a bit, and that is not cool. 

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