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TrueTomHarley

Is it Time for Jehovah's Witnesses to Apologize? Part 1

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Elizabeth Chuck wrote an article about Jehovah’s Witnesses and I would have preferred she write one instead about the PTA meeting in her town. It is a normal reaction, for it was news of a huge-dollar verdict against a religious organization I hold dear. Of course I hate to see it; that’s only natural. When you find yourself on the gallows you do not angle for a selfie with the hangman.

Still, if you must hear bad news, hear it from Ms. Chuck, for her news in this case is straight reporting, not one of the hatchet jobs we often get. The topic is the most white-hot topic of all, child sexual abuse, and temptations to whip it into fever pitch are not resisted by all. She does resist it. That’s not to say I might not write it up differently. With every story, it is a matter of which facts you put where. But she doesn’t make any up or deliberately misrepresent them. Having said that, it is not to suggest that even those who do misrepresent do so on purpose, as I will outline. Well…I guess it is to suggest that, but only to suggest. It is not proof positive. When your own people merely say that they ‘abhor child abuse and strive to protect children’, but otherwise do not comment, what’s a reporter to do?

Here’s what I like about the Elizabeth Chuck story.

First of all, it is not like the Matt Volz AP article, picked up by many sources, that expressed seeming bewilderment that “the Jehovah’s Witness cases haven’t received the same national attention” [as the Roman Catholic Church]. Is not the reason a big ‘Duh’? The Montana case abuse under trial was all within a family and church leaders were accused of botching the handling of it, though blameless themselves. It’s a little different than church leaders actually committing the abuse, something which is very rare with Witnesses.

Ms. Chuck correctly (and atypically) makes clear that a “two-witness rule” used by Witnesses “is only for internal modes of discipline and does not prevent a victim from going to the police.” She correctly points out that “there are very strict internal modes of discipline within Jehovah's Witnesses.” Yes. It is not an anything-goes religion. She correctly observes that being disfellowshipped is often a painful experience and serves as a negative incentive to do what might trigger it. So far so good. It might not be as I would phrase it, but it is certainly acceptable reporting.

She stumbles briefly, though not seriously, when she says: “Jehovah's Witnesses are a misunderstood and very self-enclosed group, despite counting some celebrities among its ranks — including Venus and Serena Williams.” She is right that they are misunderstood. The only footnote I would add is about her seeming acquiescence to the common wisdom that groups are validated by having celebrities in their camp, many of whom are among the most silly people on earth, living radically different lives than anyone else. However, the miscue is minor, and, after all, I make use of poor Serena Williams, too.

Ms. Chuck does her homework. She consults experts on religion, such as “Mark Silk, a professor and the director of the Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn [who says of Witnesses] ‘They don't vote. They don't celebrate birthdays and holidays. They don't say the pledge [of allegiance]. They are not just another Christian denomination.’” It is not her fault if she does not know that the guy (likely) has it in for us, spinning his facts negatively, and the reason is revealed in his very job title: he is a professor at Trinity College. If you do not accept the Trinity teaching, you are toast in the eyes of many of these people. Nonetheless, what the professor about voting and not pledging allegiance is true enough. He does not mention that if nobody pledged allegiance to human institutions maybe the national king could not pit them so easily against each other in times of war, but that is beyond the scope of his information request. At least he doesn’t inaccurately charge that Jehovah’s Witnesses are disrespectful to country, for there are few people as scrupulous about ‘rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s’ (taxes) than they. Reporter Chuck relates the words of another expert: “"Whatever belief they have or mode of internal discipline they have, they have a biblical justification for it.” I’ll take it. It’s true. We don’t apologize for it. I prefer it infinitely over church reporters saying we are not Christian because we do not accept the Trinity. The reason we not accept it is that its scriptural support is based almost entirely upon taking literally certain passages which, if they were seen in any other context, would be instantly dismissed as figure of speech.

She relates dutifully the sparse words of the Watchtower organization that they “abhor child abuse and strive to protect children from such acts,” attributing the sparseness to “a penchant for privacy.” She takes it at face value. She does not imply that they are lying through their teeth, like Mr. Gambacorta did in the Philadelphia Inquirer, dismissing the words as ‘boiler plate,’ and even ending his article with an anecdote of spying artwork at the JW headquarters captioned ‘Jehovah loves children,’ and using it as a pretext to wink at his readers as though to say: ‘Yes, I guess we know just how they love them’ before returning to his Witness-hating base on a Reddit thread, where he is hailed as a hero. He made me so mad that I responded by letter, and when it was ignored I put it online (and I wish it got more play than it actually does, for it is good, not the whole picture perhaps, but what is?  It represents facts not exactly shouted from the rooftops. It offers perspectives not heard anywhere else.)

However, eclipsing her skill at side-stepping all these landmines is that she puts her finger on the real problem in the very first paragraph of her article: Jehovah’s Witnesses are ‘insular.’ She doesn’t even try to spin that into a crime, as do some. Most Witnesses would not agree to the label ‘insular’, but that is primarily because they are unfamiliar with it and unsure just what attachments might come with it. They will instantly, even proudly, acknowledge two closely related phrases: they are ‘separate from the world’ and ‘no part of’ it. It is a scriptural imperative, they will say, because if you want to lend a helping hand, you must be in a place of safety yourself. Not all will agree that life today is constantly-improving. Some will say the overall picture more closely resembles the Titanic floundering. Did I not just read that generalized anxiety has replaced depression as the number one mental health malady? Can that be because there is nothing to worry about in life today? I think not. It is the ramifications of these two views, society is ever-improving vs floundering, that causes most of the ‘misunderstanding’ that opponents of Witnesses speak of. Witnesses are ‘insular,’ biblically mandated, and here is an instance where that insularity has contributed to a significant tragedy. Witness leaders find themselves in a situation parallel to certain vehicles being exempt from normal traffic laws—say, cops and fire emergency vehicles. Yet, in making use of that exemption, a terrible accident results and the public outcry is so great that they are convicted even though following the law. Or, to apply it more accurately, public anger is so great that the law is reinterpreted so it can be established that they did break it.

I am not a lawyer. I can quickly step out of my depth. Yet most persons reading this section of the Montana child abuse reporting laws would, I suspect, agree that the Witness organization followed the letter of the law as stated. They make every effort to do that. The prompt appeal of any Witness judicial committee to their Branch organization is not to see how they can evade child abuse laws, as their opponents often spin it, but how they can be sure their actions are in harmony with them.

On the very bottom of the document ‘Montana Mandatory Reporting Requirements Regarding Children’ is a section labeled "Members of the clergy or priests are not required to report when the following condition is met....a member of the clergy or a priest is not required to make a report if the communication is required to be confidential by cannon law, church doctrine, or established church practice.”

Even “established church practice?” It seems extraordinarily loose, and yet there it is. It is a part of a doctrine called ‘ecclesiastical privilege.’ It has long been encapsulated into law, as has the privileged nature of the doctor-patient relationship and the attorney-client relationship, on the recognition that these relationships cannot function without the expectation of confidentiality.

If such is the law, why is the Witness organization found culpable despite stringent efforts to follow it? Because the war today is against child sexual abuse, deemed the most critical crusade of our time, and they were expected to ‘go beyond the law’ so as to facilitate that end. Thus, the law was reinterpreted so as to allow that they did violate it.

The Witness organization finds itself in a situation similar to that of Joe Paterno, the coach who was universally praised throughout his life as an excellent role model but then was excoriated beyond redemption when he merely obeyed the law regarding an unspecific allegation he heard of child sexual abuse but did not 'go beyond it.'  He followed it. He reported the allegation to his superiors. But he did not ‘go beyond the law,’ reporting it directly to police. When the allegation turned out to be true, his career was over, and even his life, for he died two years later.

If it is so crucial to ‘go beyond the law,’ then make that the law. This is exactly what Geoffrey Jackson of the Witnesses’ Governing Body pleaded for three times before an Australian Royal Commission. Isn’t that the purpose of law – to codify what is right? Make the law clear, unambiguous, and allow for no exceptions. Jehovah’s Witnesses are universally recognized for meticulously following secular law even as they are primarily guided by biblical law. Make universal mandating the law, with no exceptions. Requiring parties to ‘go beyond the law’ only enables Monday-morning quarterbacking to assign motives, invariably bad ones, to unpopular parties failing in this regard.

An article in the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle dated November 20th, 2011 observed that: “it's a mistake to think that the failure…to report the abuse is a rarity....Studies over the past two decades nationally have consistently shown that nearly two-thirds of professionals who are required to report all cases of suspected abuse fail to do so....."I think that we fail miserably in mandated reporting," said Monroe County Assistant District Attorney Kristina Karle...” Is it not hopelessly chaotic to excoriate those who did their best to follow the law when two thirds of all professionals, for a variety of reasons, do not? Does anyone charge, as has been done with Jehovah's Witnesses by their opponents, that two thirds of all professionals do not give a hoot about children? Plainly there are other factors at work. Yet when the crusade against child sexual abuse reaches fever pitch only one factor is deemed to have any significance.

(The Democrat and Chronicle article is behind a paywall. Snippets of the above quote exist here and there, but to my knowledge, the only complete package is found in a JoePa follow-up article I wrote at the time. All is not lost. Your employer will pay to get you behind that wall, and probably already has an account. Alas, my employer is me, and he likes to cut costs, seeing no need to return there, as he already have what he needs.)

 

End of Part 1. Part 2 to follow soon.

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   These "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing" that abuse children came INTO the truth...as Wolves do...To..abuse children.  They just bided their time...waiting.   A "True" Christian of course, would never do such a thing.  Sign of the Times.   Jehovah IS "Cleaning Up"!   Trust in Jehovah with all your heart.   His "eyes" are everywhere.   He is not a God to be Mocked.

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This will move to the appellate court then the Supreme Court, where in case anyone hasn’t noticed, is now occupied by moderate conservatives that adhere to the constitution rather than try to interpret the constitution.

There is no doubt that many of these cases in the eyes of liberals, merit a distinct punishment. Even within religious ranks, there are those that blame the heads rather than see reality for what it is. No one can predict what another human will do, and it is silly to think so.

When it comes to certain religions, as you can see, most news media attach extra meaning to make that religion look worse, even though the Catholic Church has been proven to hide pedophiles within their ranks, and have internal centers to subject those individuals to reform. I don’t know if the Watchtower harbors such a center. I have never heard of one.

This has been a conflict for scholars to debate. What sets the Watchtower apart from other religions? The most meaningful discussions come from the partisan understanding that witnesses are not converted to a sinless state for having become one.

The only reason the Watchtower should apologize if they read someone’s mind and didn’t report it to the authorities. However, they would still need to prove this supernatural phenomenon. ?

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Oh dear more whitewash.

Does it clear your conscience Tom tom ?  Wow they obeyed the law on the 'world'. You think they deserve a prize ?

Um, the JW Org is supposed to be no part of the world, and yes even Jesus said to go the 'extra mile'. 

In cases of Child Abuse the law of the land should not even be a consideration.  Doing right in God's eyes, not the Organisation's eyes, not in the world's eyes, DOING RIGHT IN GOD'S EYES, is what is needed. .

 But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.

So you've found a reporter that serves the Org well. Good for you. BUT it will never make the facts different. 

So where did your Ms Chuck get her information from, a JW I presume. 

The two witness rule is for internal use. yes everyone knows that, but it's that two witness rule that makes the BIG DIFFERENCE between the Elders believing a VICTIM or calling a VICTIM a LIAR. if the Elders by ONLY using the T W rule come to the conclusion that there is 'no case to answer', then the Victim is called a liar and is further victimized by congregants and Elders alike, with the fear of being disfellowshipped.

This two witness rule is the threat used by the Elders to stop Victims making a complaint against an Elder or adult for Child Abuse. 

One more very important point, which neither you or I can prove or disprove, but has been mentioned by many of the Victims Earthwide is, that Victims have been told NOT TO REPORT CHILD ABUSE TO THE POLICE. 

It makes no difference looking at the what the JW rules' say now. We are talking about over the past twenty years at least. 

You've written a lot here which you probably think go in the favour of the JW Org and its GB. How wrong you are. 

You have just proved how much the JW Org is part of the world. How much it uses the laws of the world, instead of relying on God's laws, which should be written on the heart. . There are so many scriptures that show how wrong the GB and the Org are in so many ways regarding Child Abuse, but it would be of no use. You want to continue to be blind so that you can pretend your conscience is clear. So that you can continue to serve you GB through your Elders. Why not think about actually serving God through Christ ?

As a sidetrack, I do not agree with massive 'payouts' to Victims, though i do agree they are due compensation. I also realise it is all big business for the lawyers / solicitors etc, which is just part of the world. But in my opinion it is God's way of cleaning out the Org. 

Are you going to write such long essays about every case Earthwide or it it that this one seems good to you ? 

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19 hours ago, Judith Sweeney said:

   These "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing" that abuse children came INTO the truth...as Wolves do...To..abuse children.  They just bided their time...waiting.   A "True" Christian of course, would never do such a thing.  Sign of the Times.   Jehovah IS "Cleaning Up"!   Trust in Jehovah with all your heart.   His "eyes" are everywhere.   He is not a God to be Mocked.

Judith, Judith, I cannot believe that you have written this. 

" Jehovah IS Cleaning Up " you say. But I've been saying that all along.  His eyes are everywhere. Yes of course. So why oh why does the GB think they can get away with the things they do ? Why have Elders thought they could get away with Child Abuse, and why have other Elders covered up for the pedophiles ?  

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1 hour ago, Hankulan Tunani said:

This will move to the appellate court then the Supreme Court, where in case anyone hasn’t noticed, is now occupied by moderate conservatives that adhere to the constitution rather than try to interpret the constitution.

There is no doubt that many of these cases in the eyes of liberals, merit a distinct punishment. Even within religious ranks, there are those that blame the heads rather than see reality for what it is. No one can predict what another human will do, and it is silly to think so.

When it comes to certain religions, as you can see, most news media attach extra meaning to make that religion look worse, even though the Catholic Church has been proven to hide pedophiles within their ranks, and have internal centers to subject those individuals to reform. I don’t know if the Watchtower harbors such a center. I have never heard of one.

This has been a conflict for scholars to debate. What sets the Watchtower apart from other religions? The most meaningful discussions come from the partisan understanding that witnesses are not converted to a sinless state for having become one.

The only reason the Watchtower should apologize if they read someone’s mind and didn’t report it to the authorities. However, they would still need to prove this supernatural phenomenon. ?

You seem to be coming at this from a political angle. Being English I have no idea of American politics, in fact I've no idea of politics at all as I'm no part of this world. 

Do you know anything about the rules the Governing Body had given to the Elders of congregations  concerning Child Abuse ?

Do you know that those rules have been slightly changed in 2017 and probably again since ? 

The Governing Body have at least twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusation documents concerning America alone. 

Do you know anything about the Australian Royal Commision, The Charity Commision here in the UK, the court cases in Canada, the organisation in the Netherlands for victims of child abuse in the JW org ? 

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I think @admin will not mind this. it is clearly relevant and he is mentioned. Of course, he wants to keep traffic on his page. Every forum host does. That is why I do not seek to undermine his interests. I allow no comments on mine. Anyone wanting to do so must come back here. My post even links back to him.

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2018/10/high-praise-for-chuckles.html

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You seem to be coming at this from a political angle. Being English I have no idea of American politics, in fact I've no idea of politics at all as I'm no part of this world. 

Do you know anything about the rules the Governing Body had given to the Elders of congregations  concerning Child Abuse ?

Do you know that those rules have been slightly changed in 2017 and probably again since ? 

The Governing Body have at least twenty years worth of Child Abuse accusation documents concerning America alone. 

Do you know anything about the Australian Royal Commision, The Charity Commision here in the UK, the court cases in Canada, the organisation in the Netherlands for victims of child abuse in the JW org ? 

Anything having to deal with this world has become political. Even Christianity has become political. If you’re not part of this world, then why do you politicize this argument that by insisting on every thread.

I understand, what has been going on with the Watchtower, just like the Vatican and many more other sects within Christianity. I just don’t believe in singling out one group because of hatred.

So, please don’t start taking a tone with me, Bulter. If you don’t like my opinion. State your own then press on. I will not be bullied by you.

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25 minutes ago, Hankulan Tunani said:

Anything having to deal with this world has become political. Even Christianity has become political. If you’re not part of this world, then why do you politicize this argument that by insisting on every thread.

I understand, what has been going on with the Watchtower, just like the Vatican and many more other sects within Christianity. I just don’t believe in singling out one group because of hatred.

So, please don’t start taking a tone with me, Bulter. If you don’t like my opinion. State your own then press on. I will not be bullied by you.

Ok if you want to take that attitude so be it. It says under your name 'Newbie'. Hence i was asking if you knew about such things.

Part of your previous comment says "is now occupied by moderate conservatives that adhere to the constitution rather than try to interpret the constitution. There is no doubt that many of these cases in the eyes of liberals, merit a distinct punishment." 

THAT is political. True Christians should not be involved in politics. As Jesus said "they are no part of the world just as I am no part of the world"  

And I will say to you what i say to others. This forum is Jehovah's Witnesses Public Club. It is not the Catholic club or the Protestant club etc. It is about JW Org. Hence I talk about JW Org. Doesn't that make sense to anyone here ? 

And for a final thing, if you think I have bullied you, my oh my, you must have led a sheltered life.  

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29 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

THAT is political. True Christians should not be involved in politics. As Jesus said "they are no part of the world just as I am no part of the world"  

obviously your not from the US. In the US, the evangelicals elected Trump and put the newly elected Supreme Court judge on the bench. This is modern Christianity at its worst. You are correct, Christ made it a point to separate church and state. None of which the majority of Christendom is not doing across the world.

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      造假文凭美国康涅狄格大学UCONN毕业证文凭微|Q603012914高仿毕业证成绩单 买美国学位证书 代办美国假文凭假学历 办理留信认证 使馆认证 教育部认证University of Connecticut
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    • 诚招代理Q*微:551190476,专业办理美国毕业证办理美国成绩单办理美国学位证办理美国学历认证办理美国文凭认证办理大使馆公证办理回国学历认证办理澳洲毕业证办理澳洲成绩单办理澳洲学位证办理澳洲学历认证办理澳洲文凭认证办理大使馆公证办理回国学历认证办理英国毕业证办理英国成绩单办理英国学位证办理英国学历认证办理英国学位认证办理英国使馆认证办理留学回国证明办理加拿大毕业证,加拿大成绩单办理加拿大学位证办理加拿大文凭办理加拿大学历认证办理教育部学历认证办理回国人员证明办理。 深洋教育留学服务中心:实体公司,注册经营,行业标杆,精益求精! 咨询顾问:Addis Q/微:551190476 一、办理毕业证成绩单(学校原版1:1高仿真制作) 二、使馆认证(留学回国人员证明,大使馆存档可查,查到后付款) 三、教育部学历认证(中国教育部留服中心存档可查,查到后付款) 四、可提供钢印,激凸,烫金,烫银,激光标,水印等防伪工艺 五、诚招各地区中介代理,合作共赢!如果您有兴趣,欢迎您的加入 如果您是以下情况: 1、未能顺利毕业; 2、挂科多门,拿不到学位证书; 3、论文没过,只有个diploma; 4、留学院校不被教育部认可; 5、留学时间不足; 6、第二国拿第三国文凭; 7、认证材料有缺失; 8、急需国外学历认证书; 9、其他问题。 我们公司都能竭诚为您解决实际问题! 合理推荐业务: 1.如果您只是为了的应付父母亲戚朋友,那么办理一份文凭即可 2.如果您是为了回国找工作,只是进私营企业或者外企,那么办理一份文凭即可,因为私营企业或者外企是不能查询文凭真假的! 3.如果您是要进国企 银行 事业单位 考公务员等就需办理真实教育部学历认证! 【教育部学历认证的用途】: 如果您计划在国内发展,那么办理国内教育部学历认证是必不可少的,由于国外文凭在国内无法辨别真假,教育部认证是对您国外所获学历真实性,合法性唯一的一种鉴别方式,事业性用人单位如银行,国企,公务员,在您应聘时都会需要您提供这个认证。 【回国证明的用途】: 《留学回国人员证明》是国家为了鼓励留学人员回国发展的一项优待政策,留学人员持有此证明,可以享受购买汽车免税,在国内证明留学身份、联系工作、创办企业、大城市落户口、创业申请国内各类基金等多项优惠政策。 更多关于办理美国,英国,澳洲,加拿大,德国,荷兰,法国,新西兰学历文凭毕业证成绩单,学历学位认证的信息请加Q\V信551190476咨询我 reply 西密歇根大学毕业证办理#美国WMU毕业证成绩单+Q/薇551190476(买美国文凭)买雅思托福成绩单、买国外高仿毕业证、代办真实学历认证、学生卡、在读证明Western Michigan University 
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      鲍尔州立大学毕业证办理#美国BSU毕业证成绩单+Q/薇551190476(买美国文凭)买雅思托福成绩单、买国外高仿毕业证、代办真实学历认证、学生卡、在读证明Ball State University 
    • 英皇国际教育Q/微603012914制作办国外文凭、代办国外学历、办理外国文凭、代办海外文凭、留学文凭及学历文凭认证、办理国外大学毕业证、代办留学人员回国证明丨办理毕业证 成绩单 回国证明 学历认证 学生卡 在读证明 录取通知书 留信认证 网上可查永久存档。实体公司,注册经营,行业标杆,精益求精!诚招华人代理合作共赢 八年从业经验,专业指导,私人定制,倾心为您解决留学毕业回国各种疑难问题 ★★英皇国际教育专业为您服务★★:  ★★办理加英澳美法等各大学府毕业证成绩单 ★★办理大使馆领事馆馆认证(留学人员回国证明),办理周期短。 ★★办理真实教育部学历学位认证(网上100%可查、永久存档、快速、绝对保密稳妥,让您回国发展无忧愁) ★★英皇国际教育诚招代理:本公司诚聘加代理人员,如果你有业余时间,有兴趣就请联系我们。 ★★敬告各位新老客户:本司以高质量产品求生存,以高效便捷服务求发展,非常期待与您的合作。 Q Q: 603012914 联系人:Bill 主营项目: ◆办理真实使馆公证(即留学回国人员证明,免费申请货后付款,不成功不收费!!!) ◆办理教育部国外学历学位认证。(网上可查、永久存档、快速稳妥,回国发展,考公务员,落户,进国企,外企,创业,无忧愁) ◆办理各国各大学文凭(世界名校一对一专业服务,可全程监控跟踪进度) ◆提供整套申请学校材料 ◆可以提供钢印、水印、烫金、激光防伪、凹凸版、最新版的毕业证、百分之百让您绝对满意、设计,印刷,DHL快递;毕业证、成绩单7个工作日,真实大使馆教育部认证2个月。 ◆主营国家:加拿大 澳洲 英国 新西兰 美国 德国 法国 新加坡 日本 韩国 【郑重声明:自主研发生产、规范市场价格、质量满意为止】专业办理使馆及教育部认证100%可查永久存档!!!一次办理,终生有效,快速专业,诚信可靠。 咨询认证顾问为您服务: Q Q: 603012914 微信:603012914 联系人:Bill ★★英皇国际教育诚招代理★★:本公司诚聘加代理人员,如果你有业余时间,有兴趣就请联系我们。 造假文凭美国纽约州立大学石溪分校SBU毕业证文凭微|Q603012914高仿毕业证成绩单 买美国学位证书 代办美国假文凭假学历 办理留信认证 使馆认证 教育部认证Stony Brook University
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