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The Bible book of Ezekiel contains many prophecies that focus on the restoration of pure worship. How do these prophecies involve us?

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PURE WORSHIP OF JEHOVAH - RESTORED AT LAST!

Chapter 9, Paragraph 36 -
After the great war of Armageddon, Jesus will expand his restoration work to cover even the physical earth. During his Thousand Year Reign, he will direct mankind to turn this planet into a global garden of Eden, a paradise, just as Jehovah always intended it to be! (

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) Then all humans will be in harmony with one another and with their earthly home. There will be no danger, no threat, anywhere. Imagine a time when even this promise will be fulfilled: “I will make a covenant of peace with them, and I will rid the land of vicious wild beasts, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forests.” —
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Paragraph 38 –

We will see this promise fulfilled as well: “They will dwell on [the land] in security and build houses and plant vineyards, and they will dwell in security when I execute judgment on all those around them who treat them with scorn; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah their God.” (

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) After all of Jehovah’s enemies are gone, we will enjoy peace and security earth wide. As we care for the earth, we will also be able to take care of ourselves and our loved ones, building comfortable houses to live in and planting vineyards to cultivate.

If this is true, there would be no threat to “peace and security” after Armageddon, and after a time period of a “thousand years”.   How could there be, if all enemies are gone?  God's Kingdom would be ruling under those circumstances.  

CHAPTER 17, paragraph 16 –

When will Gog of Magog invade our restored spiritual land? The prophecy answers: “In the final part of the years you will invade the land.” (

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) This suggests a time close to the end of this system of things. Remember that the great tribulation will begin with the destruction of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion. After false religious institutions have been destroyed and before Armageddon begins, Gog will launch a final, all-out attack on true worshippers.

 NOTICE IN THIS CHAPTER, REVELATION 20:9,10 IS NOT MENTIONED. THIS IS A CONVENIENT HABIT OR PLOY, THAT YOUR LEADERS USE TO SKIRT AROUND THE TRUTH.  THIS TIME, IT IS ABOUT THE “THOUSAND YEARS”, AND WHAT FOLLOWS.

Who are the true worshippers that are under Gog’s attack?

“ Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:7-10

Pure worship cannot exist or be restored, within a haven of lies. The symbolic thousand year reign of Christ is finished.  Gog and Magog are very present and have already surrounded the camp of the “saints” – the anointed ones -  “beloved city”, “New Jerusalem”, under the New Covenant of God…by using DECEIT, DECEPTION. Gal 4:26  That deceit includes the teaching that a literal thousand-year reign of Christ is still to come.  If so, what follows after that supposed reign when the earth’s inhabitants are at peace and all enemies are GONE?  Gog and Magog will have been thrown into the lake of fire during Armageddon, which is admitted by this book.

The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.

Rule in the midst of Your enemies!  Ps 110:1,2

“But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.” 1 Cor 15:23-26 

This isn’t talking about a thousand years following Armageddon, but when Christ returns.  Death will be destroyed with no resurrection to come a thousand years later.  Rev 20:14,15

Can you see why the “wicked slave” refuses to acknowledge other anointed ones, and why the “saints” are considered shady untrustworthy characters, while the “Gentile” elder body is revered? Matt 24:48-51; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:15   They, and all JWs, are under the deceitful power of Gog and Magog – the two Beasts of Revelation 13 – a “false prophet” who 'gives breath' into the Beast which becomes the“spirit-directed organization”. Rev 13:15

Deceit appears as “light”.  2 Cor 11:13-15

Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.  Matt 24:4-8; Rev 12:1,2

Wars – Eph 6:12; Col 2:8

Nations/Kingdoms – 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 5:9,10;17:14

“For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).”  Matt 24:24 (AMPC)

This new book, introduced with supposed words of wisdom by the GB, and sprinkled with beautiful artwork, is full of lies. Or…do you believe God’s Word is lying?  Has the truth in the scriptures escaped your notice?  2 Cor 4:3

 The GB are offering you, “peace and security”, not only through the organization, but through a false belief that a “peaceful” Thousand Year Reign of Christ, is still to come.  1 Thess 5:3

 

 The end of the symbolic "thousand-year reign of Christ" which began in the first century, is marked by the emergence of the Beasts of Revelation, which are also, Gog and Magog.  This is when Satan is "released" from the abyss to fabricate his most powerful form of deception to come against the rest of the woman's seed. 2 Thess 2:1-12   He utilizes false prophets, a "Beast" and its spirit-breathed "image"/Man of Lawlessness".  Rev 8:10,11; Rev 9:1  Since Gog and Magog are "surrounding the camp of saints", this is accomplished by spiritual "Gentiles" "standing in", surrounding, the Temple of God - the anointed ones, the saints of God. This signifies spiritual war in the form of lies, to come against them.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 8:10,11; 13:2,11;12:15  It is the Beast that "kills" , disfellowships, those who give testimony of Christ and truth.  Rev 11:1-3,7  Rev 13:7

 

"Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth (Rev 1:5,6 - Christ's "kings"/saints) and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."   Rev 1:12-14

 

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@Witness And who exactly gives you all this knowledge and understanding ? 

You are saying that the 'One thousand years of Christ's reign' is only symbolic. How so ? 

You say, 'The end of the symbolic "thousand-year reign of Christ" which began in the first century'

But the Thousand year reign of Jesus Christ is with 'His Bride' the Anointed. And they are not yet completed in heaven. They certainly were nowhere near complete in the first century. So Jesus could not have ruled for a thousand years without His bride / Anointed. 

It would appear that Gog 'of' Magog is not the same group of people as Gog 'and' Magog.

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@JOHN BUTLER  Well, the scriptures clearly say, that Satan is “abyssed” for a symbolic “thousand years”. Rev 20:1-3 (Revelation is a book written in “signs” Rev 1:1) He was unable to perceive this end time plan (Hades/abyss - “not perceiving”).  At the end, he is released by a fallen star, a fallen anointed one (I will not go there, SM)  to “make war” with the “saints”. Rev 8:11; 9:1

If Christ’s Bride was complete during the “thousand years” and the heavenly Temple completely sealed with “144,000” saints during his reign, how would Satan come against “the remaining ones of the woman’s seed” – the anointed saints, when he is released from the abyss?  It is when God’s Kingdom arrives that the Bride is complete, and the Temple living stones are in place. 1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 21:1-5; Zech 4:6,7 

Satan uses his earthly tools to devise this plan – the desire of the eyes and power.  Luke 4:5-7  Could you see this happening on the other side of Armageddon when the earth is like Eden?  He uses his lies that he imparts to the fallen anointed composite “star”, mixed with waters of truth.  Rev 8:11,12  This fallen “star” is a false prophet, that appears to be sent by Christ.  2 Pet 3:17 (Gen 22:17,18; Matt 13:43)

Each anointed one since the first century has been “sifted” as either wheat or weeds. Luke 22:31  They are either sealed in the heavens, even while alive on the earth,  or have become enemies of Christ under his feet. Eph 4:30; Heb 12:22; Rev 7:4; 1 John 2:19; Rev 5:9,10

If you’ll notice, in Rev 20:4-6 those that do reign with Christ during “a thousand years” since the first century, never “worshipped the beast or its image” of Rev 13:7,15.  THAT beast and its false prophet, makes war and conquers the saints during the last days. Watchtower even speaks of Revelation’s Beasts as present today, but of course, they point the finger to the UN and Christendom.  They also leave the part out where that the Beast from the Sea (Rev 13:1) overcomes/conquers the saints.  Rev 13:7

 Gog and Magog (Gog, of the land of Magog)  are the other symbolic terms of the end time machination to destroy the last remaining ones of God’s priesthood. 

The "thousand years" is not one of peace.  Jesus never said he came to bring peace, but a divisive sword. Matt 10:34; Ps 110:1,2 

The Great Tribulation/Armageddon is Satan’s short period of time to deceive the rest of this seed, “Israel”, under the “woman” covenant of life. Ezek 38:18   Gog and Magog, under Satan’s direction, bring about Armageddon.  Rev 20:8

The remnant today live in a perceived “safety” (Ezek 38:14) in the organization. Yet a great army comes against them, the Man of Lawlessness, the locust/army of Rev 9:1-12 (Ezek 38:15,16) and Joel 2.  

God allows this or “sends” this “army” at Satan’s demand to sift each of us, using deceit. 2 Thess 2:9-12  They are swallowing lies uttered from the false prophet/Beast of Rev 13:11 – the wicked slave – tempting them with the promise of “peace and security” from “Jehovah’s organization”.  But, time has gone by.  Now, the Man of Lawlessness/elder body has thoroughly trampled the Temple of God. Barely, do new members of the organization really know the role of God’s priesthood in the Kingdom of God.   2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3  

Christ was also confronted with lying temptations by the devil.  This is the sifting and refinement of hearts, whether we are fully obedient to God and Christ, or fall into the trap of serving men and their thirst for power and greed.  Matt 6:24; Rom 6:16;  Rev 3:18 

Will the anointed wake up and stand for truth, or remain under a wicked slave and his lies?  Rev 19:11,14

 

 

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On 10/30/2018 at 1:12 PM, JOHN BUTLER said:

And who exactly gives you all this knowledge and understanding ? 

I was anointed around 25 years old, 1981.  I kept quiet, out of fear and ignorance, since I was new to the organization. I totally ignored my anointing for over 32.  It was then that I was "killed", disfellowshipped, for speaking up against lies, 1914, accepting only Christ as my Head, and refusing to "bow down" to the GB and their "organization". Rev 13:7,15; 11:7  I am not alone, other anointed have done the same.  Many other children of God have joined them,  as they have perceived the Man of Lawlessness/Elder Body "standing" in the Temple of God. Matt 24:15,16; Luke 17:31-37; Rev 12:6; Gal 4:22-26 They understand that the Beasts of Revelation point directly to the GB and the elder body as the "image" of the Beast/organization.  Rev 13

2 Thess 2:4 - He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Dan 11: 31,32 - “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.  With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him."

Dan 11:36 - “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of godsHe will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place."

Rev 11:2 - "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.  And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

Matt 17:11 = "Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things."

Mal 3:1 - “Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Rev 11:1,2   - "Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.  And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”


"The Good News -- What is it? Who is it for?"  4womaninthewilderness

 

 

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On 11/1/2018 at 5:10 AM, Witness said:

 

2 Thess 2:4 - He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Dan 11: 31,32 - “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.  With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him."

Dan 11:36 - “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of godsHe will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place."

 

Hey come on, those scriptures are about the king of the North, the Antichrist. Those have nothing to do with the GB.

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On 11/2/2018 at 7:00 PM, Kosonen said:

Hey come on, those scriptures are about the king of the North, the Antichrist. Those have nothing to do with the GB.

The organization has the eyes of JWs focused on Russia and the governments for the end time fulfillment.

Where did Jesus focus his disciple’s attention for the signs of the last days?

 Teacher,” they asked him, “so when will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” 

Then he said, “Watch out that you are not deceived.  Luke 21:7,8

We know Russia has not deceived JWs; nor any other government has deceived JWs, a people who stay out of politics.  Russia’s agenda has been made clear to the world for a long time.  Watchtower is fighting a literal battle with that country because they dissolved their material holdings.  The governing body covet their “riches”, while God and Christ’s only “earthly belongings” are His children who strive to follow His Son and obey His decrees, instead of men and their material riches.  Matt 6:19-21; Act 7:48-50; 17:24  His “special possession” is not made with wood and stone, but with “living stones” of His Temple.  Yet, those anointed stones are asleep to this fact.  1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

JWs have been deceived by lies.    

“For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Don’t follow them.”

Or, “I am the Christ”.  “Christ” means “anointed”.  WT’s string of leaders are anointed ones, who claim to represent Christ; and who many times over the years have pointed to literal dates of the return of Christ.  

“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matt 24:24

Although JWs have been soothed into accepting the follow-up of WT’s failed  prophesy as the necessary introduction of “new light”, God refers to it as falsehood, that is not left unpunished.

“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 I will hold accountable whoever does not listen to My words that he speaks in My name.”  Deut 18:18,19

Jesus’ words were, “watch out that you are not DECEIVED” by false christs, false prophets.” 

“But the prophet who presumes to speak a message in My name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods—that prophet must die.’ 21 You may say to yourself, ‘How can we recognize a message the Lord has not spoken?’ 22 When a prophet speaks in the Lord’s name, and the message does not come true or is not fulfilled, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.”  Deut 18:20-22

Are JWs like the Pharisees who seek a literal sign?

“He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.”  Matt 16:2-4

“Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.

The organization is doing exactly the opposite by pointing to a literal observation in Satan's world as a sign of the coming of the kingdom of God.  Observed: seen with the naked eye. The Watchtower organization calls itself Zion, a tangible entity full of not only people but buildings, produced with money and investments. These buildings are revered as a temple would be revered.  Upon entering every aspect of this organization, one is believed to have entered a “spiritual paradise”.  It is maintained, cherished and touted as the only way to worship God.  It is “observed” by all JWs as an irreplaceable aspect of the coming  Kingdom of God.  

If we look at Russia as the King of the North simply because there is blatant animosity against it by the organization, then most assuredly you have been deceived. Revelation concerns Jesus’ “kings of the earth”, not the political powers of the world.  This battle is spiritual and the focus of Revelation.  John 10:10; Eph 6:11-17; 1 Tim 6:12; Rev 1:5; 12:11

The kingdom of God is in your midst:  Who comprise the Temple of God/Zion, Body of Christ, whose hearts are the dwelling of God?  The anointed ones.  1 Cor 3:16,17 They are the potential members of the Bride of Christ, to be one with him as part of the vine.  John 15:1-4  As living stones, they are tried and tested by Satan, who “sifts” them as wheat.   Luke 22:31  If deceit doesn’t take them down, they are victorious, and are sealed in permanently, through their faith and obedience, while one the earth.  They are, “in your midst”and are the true Zion.  1 Cor 15:54-57; 2 Cor 7:10; Rev 13:7;15:2  

Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other”.  Luke 17:22-24

Jesus indicated the essence of the battle that his people would come against after he left.   Truth against lies.  “Lightening” is the knowledge of truth that becomes apparent when God’s anointed have “run after” false prophets and their oppressive false priesthood, the elder body.  Lightening is the message about the Christ spoken through those whom he sends to “Israel”. They are the “carcass”, “killed”/disfellowshipped for their “testimony to Christ”. Matt 24:27,28; Rev 11:1-3,7; Rev 13:15; 12:17  

The Pharisees came as “Moses”, mixing truth with lies.  Jesus exposed them for who they were using his light to uncover their darkness. The GB come as “Christ”.  He gave us fair warning by saying test the teachings, which would help discern those whom HE would send, and those who cast their lot in with Satan. Matt 7:15-20  They are those who would throw truth “down to the ground”. Dan 8:12  He was speaking of individuals among his own people, “Israel”; then, and now. 

“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought themand bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemedBy covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.”  2 Pet 2:1-3

This is the battle at hand and is being fought between the “kings” of “Israel”.  Please open your eyes and if nothing else, “see” just this one scripture: 

“When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”

Can you see that the end time preaching is to “Israel”, the anointed who are held captive under a “wicked slave”?  Matt 24:48-51

Do not go running after false “christs” who have repeatedly told you Armageddon was to arrive at a certain date.

This is one of the signs of the last days for us to perceive:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him: We ask you, brothers and sisters, not to be easily upset or troubled, either by a prophecy or by a message or by a letter supposedly from us, alleging that the day of the Lord has come.Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s temple, proclaiming that he himself is God.  2 Thess 2:1-4

Can you see that the trumpeting of dates and the trampling of the Temple/anointed priesthood doesn’t originate with political or religious leaders outside of the anointed group, but it is spearheaded by those anointed who have fallen from the grace of God?  Rev 8:11; 2 Pet 3;17; 1 John 2:19

The Watchtower has sent message after message of the prophetic “day of the Lord”.  1914 has stuck, since it is the foundation of the “generation” doctrine.  They will revise it and twist it if needed, until Armageddon is finished.  Matt 7:26,27

If the anointed are Abraham’s seed and the dwelling of God, they are God’s sons, His firstborn of ALL sons of God. They are also the habitation of God’s Spirit.  The Man of Lawlessness that “sits” in God’s Temple is not found in the governments or the religions of the world, nor is it a literal “holy place” deemed so by false prophets.   Matt 24:15  There is only one Temple of God that He recognizes, which is built with “living stones”.   John 2:19,21; Matt 16:18; 1 Pet 2:4-10; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Rev 21:14; 14:1

This Temple is under attack with weapons of DECEIT.

2 Thess 2:9-12 – “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved11 For this reason God sends (or allows Satan to send his “works”) them a powerful delusion (watch out that you are not deceived) so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

All JWs believe the lie that the end time fulfillments and coming Kingdom of God will take place through the physical developments in Satan’s world.  This is enforced by a wicked slave and the “lawless one”, who rules over God’s anointed priesthood, the elder body; the dual power of the Beasts of Revelation 13, who are Gog and Magog “surrounding the saints” with deceit.  Rev 16:13-16

Why would God’s Kingdom be born from Satan’s realm?  Can pure light be born from darkness?

“Who can bring what is pure from the impure?
    No one!”  Job 14:4

The great northern army that comes against God’s priesthood is described in Joel 1 and 2 and Rev 9:1-12  God “sends” or allows Satan to enact against the remaining “seed” of the woman covenant.

Why does he allow God’s people to fall under such an oppressive army?  Because “they refuse to love the truth”.  Whenever Israel sinned, God removed his protection and they suffered under the enemy.  This is why the anointed are allowed to be “trampled”. Dan 8:13   They serve the GB and not Christ.  They idolize an “organization” forgetting to give God “exclusive devotion”.   Deut 5:7,8; Rev 13:4   Spiritual “Israel” has allowed themselves to fall under the authority of the spiritual “Gentiles”.  Rev 11:1,2

Watchtower will tell you this army of locusts are the anointed ones, which is another lie, and outlined here:

    Hello guest!
– “Preaching in a Lawless World”

Are they supposing that JWs will not see the outcome of the locust army described in Joel 2:20  How do they hide this from JWs?  You must ask yourself, Bible readers, why you missed the scriptures in Joel that show how the devastating northern locust army “tortures” GOD’S ANOINTED ONES.  2 Cor 11:13-15  For those who leave, losing the life they had known, (Mark 8:35)  but gain life through Christ,  God promises:

“But I will remove far from you the northern army,
And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land,
With his face toward the eastern sea
And his back toward the western sea;
His stench will come up,
And his foul odor will rise,
Because he has done monstrous things.”

“So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.
26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the Lord your God,” 
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame.
27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
am the Lord your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame.  Joel 2:20,25-27

Those anointed that escape the “lawless one’s” grip are the restored “Jacob”/”Israel”, the true Mountain of God. 

“And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.
29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
32 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be [

    Hello guest!
]saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

Rev 11:1-3; Matt 24:26-31; Rev 12:1-5

 

Pearl Doxsey – 4womaninthewilderness  Look for, “Christ’s Return, When?”

 

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Witness, 

I am a former Jehovah's witness and anointed. And I understand the prophecies not at all as Pearl Doxey. In my opinion are her explanations even worse than the Watchtower's. 

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11 hours ago, Kosonen said:

Witness, 

I am a former Jehovah's witness and anointed. And I understand the prophecies not at all as Pearl Doxey. In my opinion are her explanations even worse than the Watchtower's. 

I believe you and the Watchtower are on the same page – fleshly thinking and the desire to put literal dates to symbolic numbers from a symbolic book - Revelation.  Under this topic - 

  

you said, “in the first centry the abomination that causes desolation were the Roman armies with their idols they brought with themselves to the battlefield. In this case they had brought that into the Holy city, Jerusalem. And they were near the Holy Temple. That was the sign to flee from the holy city Jerusalem.

Similarly when today's holy place, the JW complex at Warwick, will be desacrated by political simbols by the authorities, that will be the sign to start fleeing literaly as did the jewish christians to safety. Because that will be the begining of the persecution that will last till the end.” 

 Do you really believe that a printing facility is “holy” to God – you, who have left the Watchtower?  The early temple WAS the holy place not only to the Jews, but to God and Christ.  He called it, his “Father’s House”.  John 2:16

Today, the Father’s House/Temple are the anointed ones.  John 2:19-21;4:21-24; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17

Why would you change the definition to something that even you see as detestable – Warwick?  Or do you?

Rev 11:1-3 is telling us what the “holy place” of Matt 24:15 is:

 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.”

As an anointed one and a “living stone”, YOU are that temple and part of the “holy city” being measured according to the decrees of God.

Dan 11:31 -  “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation

This is how Mark 13:14 interprets the “disgusting thing” of Matt 24:15:  “When you see the abomination of desolation  STANDING WHERE IT SHOULD NOT BE” (let the reader understand)”

Where does the abomination happen?  In the temple fortress.

Go back to Rev 11:1-3 – the abomination, which is Gentiles,  is trampling/treading/standing in the Temple, where they, the Gentiles,  should not be.  Ezek 44:6-9; Num 18:7

Warwick is neither the temple of God, the sanctuary nor the holy place where the disgusting thing – “ABOMINATION“– stands now as the man of lawlessness.  It is the elder body that has abolished all daily sacrifices of the holy ones, substituting their sacrifices as false priests.

1 Thess 2:3,4 -  Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”

The man of lawlessness is the disgusting thing – the abomination – standing in the “holy place” of Matt 24:15, as well as the “image” of the Beast of 13:1,15

This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.  Rev 13:18

Rev 13:7 tells us that the man of lawlessness, “…was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. “

Do you see the power that has been given to the elder body? Can you determine that the conquering of the Temple is equivalent to “desecrating” it as Dan 11:31 says?  Can you see the authority given to the elder body is not only over the Temple of God, but all JWs?

Who sanctions this authority?

 “Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. (false prophet)  12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast (man of lawlessness/elder body) on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.”  Rev 13:11,12

As it stands, the GB/false prophet directs or has authority over the elders/organization. 

You agreed that the elder rule over the anointed ones was “real”; yet you as a “living stone” do not perceive what is falling down around you – your own “brothers” in Christ. 

 

 

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Witness,

In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words. So today there exist a physical sanctuary and the fortress. (Daniel 11:30,31) JW broadcast-studio fits well to what is said to be the sanctuary and the fortress is the WT complex in Warwick. And in the same time every anointed is a temple of God, where God's spirit may dwell.

 

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Witness,

The beasts in Daniel are explained there to represent great political powers, like Babylon, Medo-persia, Greece. And the last beast there represented the Roman empire. And this beast is still alive through the 10 horns/kingdoms that have their origin in the Roman empire, so also the eleveth horn that speak arrogantly. That is typical of Donald Trump. So he is the eleventh horn. And according to Daniel 7 he will begin to persecute the saints and to conquer them during a 3 and half year period.

That period has neither yet begun. But because President Trump fit so well the prophesy (also Daniel 8:23-25 and the king of the north in Daniel 11:30-45) we can know in advance what he will do.

By erroneously applying these prophecies on Governing Body the true application will be missed out.

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On 11/12/2018 at 9:39 AM, Kosonen said:

In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words. So today there exist a physical sanctuary and the fortress. (Daniel 11:30,31) JW broadcast-studio fits well to what is said to be the sanctuary and the fortress is the WT complex in Warwick. And in the same time every anointed is a temple of God, where God's spirit may dwell.

 

Dear Kosonen, 

Dan 11:31 -  “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

You believe that JW Broadcasting and Warwick are the identities behind those whose “daily sacrifices” will be abolished?  Only one identity in scripture offers “daily sacrifices” – God’s priesthood.  Why are you deviating from scripture?    Lev 6:8-13; Heb 8:1-6; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10

"In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words."

You are saying there is a dual fulfillment of two apparent sanctuaries being trampled? 

 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body.  John 2:19-21

“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

No longer are we to recognize a building of any sort as a temple sanctuary; but,  this is what you are saying, by calling Warwick a “temple” whose “sacrifices” will be abolished.  Also, somehow you are working in the “trampling” of God’s true sanctuary, “living stones” built on the Body of Christ? 1f Pet 2:5,9  Or, perhaps you don’t see this at all. 

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.  Eph 2:19-22 (1 Cor 3:16,17)

The apostles moved away from the existing temple worship – a “physical place”.  It is what the establishment of the New Covenant entailed; yet, you are comparing a system, a covenant, that lasted hundreds of years which Jesus fulfilled at his coming, to the appearance of the Watchtower making its deceptive call just a hundred years ago.  He abandoned the “house” because of its sins, and replaced the physical temple with his Body.  Matt 26:26-29  Do you believe the WT is under its own covenant with God, just as the nation of Israel was under the law covenant until Jesus arrived?  It certainly can’t be the “New Covenant” that Jesus established in the first century, since that promise has been in existence since his last supper with his disciples. Heb 8:13

Any contracted covenant that the WT is under, has a demonic source. Luke 4:5-7; Rev 13:2; 2 Thess 2:9-12; 2 Pet 2:1-3

Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as He appointed, instructing Moses to make it according to the pattern that he had seen45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.

48 However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:

49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’

You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you”  Act 7:44-51

Any literal building owned by the WT is not the “temple fortress” that loses its “daily sacrifice” by an “abomination” that is set up in it. Dan 11:31.  It has never been approved by God as His “House”.  He has only one house, one dwelling, in the anointed hearts. 1 Cor 3:16,17 But, by your saying so, are you rejecting Christ as the chief cornerstone of the true House of God?   1 Pet 2:6-8  I do hope this isn’t true.  In Dan 11:38,39, the “king” (Rev 13:11) honors a “god of fortresses” (Rev 13:1,4,8) while attacking the “mightiest fortress”, which is the same “temple fortress” in Dan 11:31, and God’s anointed Temple. 

The “god of fortresses”, then, is the “spirit-directed organization” and an idol.  Rev 13:1,15,4

The fourth Beast of Daniel is “different”, unlike the other Beasts of worldly power.  And, Daniel’s description does fit the Beast of Revelation 13:1.  But, only one of those “Beasts” in Rev 13, represent the GB – the false prophet with “two horns that speaks like a dragon.”  The other is the organization, where the “image” as “spirit-directed” is kept alive by the “breath” the false prophet imparts to the Wild Beast.  Rev 13:15

Tell me, how will Donald Trump find out who the anointed ones are, in order to persecute them and remove their “daily sacrifice”, when it is apparent that God’s priesthood cannot not offer “daily sacrifices” as priests now? (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5,9;  Heb 13:15)  He has little time left to do this, doesn’t he.  You’d think he’d be doing some sort of investigation at this moment, but I’m sure he’s looking for bigger fish to fry.   The GB/wicked slave and their henchmen, already keep them well “trampled”; totally obscured from the rest of JWs.   Matt 24:48-51  I am anointed, but in the Watchtower I never partook for the years I was in. No one knew that I was anointed. How many more are like me, too afraid to speak up as one of God’s anointed ones, or who give up partaking in a setting that requires no interaction with other members of the anointed Body?  Or, having the fear of being pinned down as possibly “mentally diseased”?  Has Trump been given such spiritual insight to “know” who is anointed and who isn’t?   He’s not even a JW.  

And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.  Dan 8:9,10

I know you are aware of the power the elders have over the anointed is incredible.  They easily “kill” them (disfellowship) for rejecting Watchtower’s lies and proclaiming Christ as their one true Head.  Rev 13:7,15; 11:7; Dan 8:25   They have received this authority to do so from the GB; yet ultimately the Beast receives it from the dragon!  Rev 13:2; 16:13,14  Thus, they have exalted themselves as high as Christ – as has the GB also (Mark 13:22). Again, the elders are the man of lawlessness of 2 Thess 2:3,4 and Rev 11:1,2;  and the “image” of the Beast.  Rev 13:15

As a dual power comprised of “iron”/Gentile, and “clay”/”Israel” in covenant with God, Daniel’s fourth Beast has cast truth down to the ground.

 Dan 2:40-43; Isa 64:8; 1 Cor 3:9 – “clay”

Ezek 11:12; Luke 22:25,26 – “iron”

 Anointed who remain “in Christ”, would speak truth; but as we see, no truth can be spoken by those who are “trampled” and tread upon. John 15:4; Dan 8:13; Isa 3:4,5;5:5-7; Matt 7:6; Isa 63:18; Jer 12:10; Rev 11:2 ; Matt 24:15; Rev 13:7

 This is a spiritual captivity that God has allowed to come upon His people for choosing the idealistic expectations of men, to promote their idol.  Isa 5:5-7,11-13; Rev 13:9,10; Luke 21:24; Col 2:8; 2 Thess 2:9-12

It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lordit took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down.12 Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”  Dan 8:11-13

This is so evident by the upbuilding of the elder body above and beyond any acknowledgement of who the anointed ones are.

“Now in those times many shall rise up against the king of the South. Also violent men of your people shall exalt themselves in fulfillment of the vision, but they shall fall.”  Dan 11:14

Of “Israel”.  The anointed are “Israel”.  Rev 21:12

Both these kings’ hearts shall be bent on evil, and they shall speak lies at the same table; but it shall not prosper, for the end will still be at the appointed time.   Dan 11:27

The Beast from the Earth is a composite false prophet /Harlot who has exalted itself as superior to its “fellow servants”.  As Daniel says, these kings will not prosper, but will be exposed for the iniquities they have committed.  Rev 13:11; 17:16,17

It is the wicked slave of Matt 24:48-51.  The simple fact the GB proclaims only themselves as “faithful and discreet” before the coming of Christ, shows their deception; their speaking lies at the same table which expresses their desire for superiority over all “kings of the earth”- Christ’s “kings”. Luke 19:17; Rev 1:5

Gerrit Loesch - “To appreciate the extent of Jehovah’s and Jesus’ trust in the faithful slave reflect on what he has promised its members. He has promised the immortality and incorruption. Soon, JUST BEFORE ARMAGEDDON the remaining members of the slave will be taken to heaven.” 

This only includes the GB.  They have no interest in their fellow servants in Christ, but to silence them.  Matt 24:48-51; 1 John 3:11,12; 1 Cor 12:14-26

The depictions of people and nations in the Hebrew scriptures provide symbolic characteristics of the Beasts that come against the anointed during Armageddon.  We see this when reading about the “two witnesses” who are “killed” by the Beast.

“When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”  Rev 11:7,8

See all of Isaiah Chapter 1.  God actually compares “Israel” to Sodom and Gomorrah.  The “two witnesses” lie in the street of “apostate” Jerusalem, equivalent to “Sodom”.  This indicates the Wild Beast/organization’s vast sins.   What are the two witnesses proclaiming when “killed”/disfellowshipped?  (Rev 11:1-3) The sins of “Israel”, their fall into idolatry/servitude to the organization and its leaders.  Also, their failure at remembering who they should be serving instead of an organization, and their blatant disregard for Christ, who bought them with a price; (1 Cor 6:20; 2 Pet 2:1; Heb 6:4-6) The “two witnesses” are also trumpeting the identity of the Man of Lawlessness standing in /treading upon the Temple of God.  Rev 11:1-3; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Dan 9:16

I really hope you reconsider your perception as needing to be spiritual, and not visual.  It is not often that anointed are able to find and converse with one another. 

 Pearl Doxsey - 4womaninthewilderness - ""Gentile Times"/ "Great Tribulation" / Cleansed Priesthood"

 

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Hi Witness,

I don't think Satan or Trump will have any proplem to target the anointed. One easy thing for him would be to do as did Nebucadnessar. Put up a symbol of worship and demand everyone to worship it. Like Hitler who had his Swastica and required that people greet each other by saying Hiel Hitler instead of Good day. 

But of course every one else who will not worship the beast or its image or that the mark of the beast will also be targeted. 

But during the final 42 months when all this will occure GB will be out from the picture and instead local anointed will guide what is left from the congregations. And logically the political powers will first hand target the anointed who have taken the lead when the GB is gone. 

And there is a possibility that some JWs will turn traitors, and report to the authorities who are the anointed, and in that way the authorities will find them.

Sad that you did not have the courage to confess before the congregation that you had become anointed. 

Maybe you should work on that quality. For my part, I told everyone that I had become anointed when I got sure about that. But I did not make it to the next Memorial before I was expelled, just two weeks before that. But I went to the Memorial as disfellowshiped and took from the emblems. And I have done it a few times more after that, to make sure that the congregation knows who I am and to my wife and family.

Sure I have been nervous every time I have done it. But Jesus said we should not be ashamed of him and that we are in union with him.

If you get this right, maybe you will get the scriptures right also.

With best regards Jan

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21 hours ago, Witness said:

 It is not often that anointed are able to find and converse with one another. 

 

 

Hi again Witness, 

I was quite strait forward in the last post. And I appreciate the possibility to connect with other anointed as you. Before I was very eager to find other anointed on the internet. And I have found a few. But unfortunately until now all anointed seem to have their own ideas and it is almost always impossible to come to a unified true understanding of the scriptures. I have tried with Robert King at 

    Hello guest!
 and an other brother at 
    Hello guest!
 and there used to be two anointed at 
    Hello guest!
 and I have met a several more anointed on other forums. 

But non of us can come to an agreement with each other.  Maybe the time has not come, or the circumstances has not yet made us clear out our own errors?

But I wish that Jesus' words about 5 wise virgins will come true. 

And I hope both you and I will be among those.

With best regards Jan

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This is all heavy vibes here. As for who is anointed and who isn't, not my place to judge on that one. 

But if those of the anointed cannot agree then i have no hope on finding truth.The scripture about ten men clinging to the skirt of a 'Jew' comes to mind, but if we have no idea who the spiritual Jew is then what hope can we have ? 

Tow questions, Why would you have to go to a JW Memorial to partake ?  Why could you not find others of the Anointed and get together for your own Memorial ?  

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 Hi John Butler,

I wanted to go back to JW memorial because I believe that in the end I will be helping them during the final tribulation time. So I do not want that they forget me. I believe something similar will happen as happened to Joseph who was sold by his brothers to Egypt. 

And unfortunately I do not know other anointed in my area. 

And I understand that you feel unsure now, when the anointed among themselves can not agree on many vital things. So it is up to you to decide who of the anointed is understanding the Bible right. In the begining of WT org Charles Russell looked around and learned scattered pieces of truth from different sources. I think that is a way to learn. Some youtube preachers could have examined specific biblical subjects and got it right without JW background. For me it does not matter what the source is, if the arguments are sound and real. And in accord with the Bible.

This deplorable situation among the anointed themselves is actually fortold in Malachi. The anointed are symbolized by the sons of Levi, that need a serious cleansing.  This prophecy had a partial fulfillment in the first centry when John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus, the messenger of the covenant. But as many prophesies in the Bible there should be a second fulfilment. The WT teaches that the second fulfilment happened in the early history of the WT org, when the WT organization and its early members were supposedly cleansed. But evidently the sons of Levi, the anointed were far from cleansed to the core at that time, as described in Malichi 3:3. So  we should expect that suddenly Jesus will start the cleansing of the anointed, as the messenger of the covenant.  And logically before this cleansing period things would be out of order.

Here is the verses in Malachi:

Malachi 3:1 “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up* a way before me.+ And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple;+and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies.2  “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen. 3  And he will sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and will cleanse the sons of Leʹvi; and he will clarify them like gold and like silver, and they will certainly become to Jehovah people presenting a gift offering in righteousness. 

 

And a note-worthy prophecy we find in Malachi 4:5. This prophecy likewise got its first partial  fulfillment on John the Baptist. But the verse speaks about Elijah's coming before the awe-inspiring day of Jehovah. So this "Elijah" should come before Armageddon and teach God's people. So there is hope according to the Bible.

Malachi 4:5  “Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah.+ 6  And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons,+ and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.”

 

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On 11/14/2018 at 4:37 PM, Kosonen said:

Hi again Witness, 

I was quite strait forward in the last post. And I appreciate the possibility to connect with other anointed as you. Before I was very eager to find other anointed on the internet. And I have found a few. But unfortunately until now all anointed seem to have their own ideas and it is almost always impossible to come to a unified true understanding of the scriptures. I have tried with Robert King at 

    Hello guest!
 and an other brother at 
    Hello guest!
 and there used to be two anointed at 
    Hello guest!
 and I have met a several more anointed on other forums. 

But non of us can come to an agreement with each other.  Maybe the time has not come, or the circumstances has not yet made us clear out our own errors?

But I wish that Jesus' words about 5 wise virgins will come true. 

And I hope both you and I will be among those.

With best regards Jan

Thanks, Jan.  Both perimeno and RK are deterrents from knowing truth for all of us who step out of the WT.  At least I believe that.  When I realized that they encourage either remaining in the organization and waiting for it to change, I couldn't stomach remaining under a false pretense called truth.   I remember RK even stating it was useless to partake.  That told me right off, he was not with Christ.

You said it was "Sad that you did not have the courage to confess before the congregation that you had become anointed."

 I grew up extremely shy with little self-worth.  A shy person does not make waves when something unusual occurs in life. I was never one to draw attention to myself.  Even when facing child abuse by a family member, I never told my parents.    As I mentioned earlier, I was young when anointed and very new to the organization, not even understanding fully the role of anointed.   Eventually, the experience was set aside, since I told myself I was unworthy to be called by God to serve Him and Jesus in such a way. 

Since being out of the organization, I have met with anointed to partake in an intimate setting that I would like to believe is how Jesus wanted it.  He could have invited every believer, every disciple, to his last supper on earth, but he chose a selected few to be with him who became the foundation of God’s Temple. Matt 16:18; 1 Cor 3:11 I would never partake in the Watchtower where condemnation breathes down the neck of each anointed one.  Elders scrutinize and judge who is and who isn’t, anointed.

Anointed do not seek out others who claim to have the same calling, hoping to bond with them.  1 Cor 12:25,26  WT 16/1 par 8

That’s all I wanted to do when I left the organization – to bond with other anointed ones.  It seems to me that you also, have this desire.  It is natural, it is the attraction to life through Holy Spirit provided by Christ   Anointed are the branches of the vine who, if their heart is in the right place, desire to be unified fully as one, with the vine of Christ and with their brothers/sisters.  John 15:1-7   This is how the Temple of God is built. :)  Eph 2:20-22

In WT’s use of scriptures, Paul was writing to the anointed Body.  It is their unity and love that is imperative for Holy Spirit to reach each one of them; allowing them to teach all believers. Mal 2:7  Paul speaks of the gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 12,  in Romans 12:1-8 also, stating they are “living sacrifices” under one Head, Christ.  These living sacrifices, or living stones of the temple, are the priesthood:

As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.  1 Pet 2:4,5

JWs cannot recognize them, or their gifts, when scriptures pertaining to the anointed are used to support the elder body. 

If we love the elders and respect their work, we will be obedient and submissive to them.ws12 5/15 pp. 21-26

 This includes the called anointed ones of God – those who would be “kings and priests” in the Kingdom if they are faithful to one Master, bearing only one “mark” on their forehead, and not the mark of an organization with its set of ordinances and doctrine.    Matt 6:24; Rev 13:15,16; Deut 11:18,19    Does this even make sense that anointed are to obey those not anointed? Who are they to judge those under Christ?  When does the switcheroo happen?  When do those whom they are to obey now, become subservient to those GOD has already appointed?  Rev 3:9   Are God's priesthood to sit back and wait for their appointment as heavenly “kings”?  Is that what Paul taught the early anointed ones?  Would God appoint “Gentiles” to decide if they are worthy to serve God?  Yet, they do this when anointed (and ALL) choose God’s Word over the word of the GB.   The elders authority to judge before Christ will at his coming, is the trademark of the Man of Lawlessness – acting as if from God, as if Christ himself. 2 Thess 2:3,4 

Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.  Rom 14:4

JWs are to “seek out” the elders, but not the appointed authentic priesthood of God. This is oppression that leads to “desolating” a people. Matt 24:15; Dan 9:27; 11:31

The “man of lawlessness” is not one man, but an army...of elders.

Who passes the anointed ones the emblems?  The elders, those not anointed.  It wasn’t that way with at the last supper. There is no cohesiveness within the anointed Body because “Gentiles” have come between them.   Rev 11:1-3

 My point is not to convince others through partaking in front of JWs, but to serve Christ in truth and declare it as he intends God’s true “witnesses” to do so.  Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10  I am sure you must feel similar, how important that is. 

When the symbolic “two witnesses”, those anointed as God’s true Witnesses of “Jacob”/”Israel” (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9), reveal Truth in Christ (Matt 18:16), and reveal this desolating event, the circumstances for this happening in Isa 43:8-10 coincides with Revelation 11:1-3, 13:10; 16:2

They proclaim there can be “no foreign god” among them.  Isa 43:12   No organization with its rules is to come between them and Christ.  They announce this “distress” or tribulation that is “different” from any other time in the history of God’s people. 

 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.  Dan 12:1

We conquer this oppression by standing for Truth, even if it means being “killed” by the Beast/organization for not revering its existence.  Rev 11:7; 13:4,5,15,18;3:12; 15:2

Sometimes, the identity of Satan’s deceptions can be right in front of us, closer than we first realized.    

 

 

 

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On 11/11/2018 at 11:57 AM, Kosonen said:

Witness, 

I am a former Jehovah's witness and anointed. And I understand the prophecies not at all as Pearl Doxey. In my opinion are her explanations even worse than the Watchtower's. 

He gets his information from Pearl Doxsey, a person of whom has been mention several times in some Christian discussions and debate elsewhere. This is the same person who puts forth of what is accursed that is a direct opposite regarding God's Order, and what Orderly Worship entails.

This is the same one has led ones to have no idea who the Assyrians were who tried to confront Hezekiah and the same info pulled from her which led so and so to believe God sent Satan to attack the Egyptians, which is ridiculous and unfounded in the Old Testament, as well as adhere to a doctrine that does not originate with the church.

It is one thing to not agree with someone, that is for certain, but to proclaim teachings and doctrines that has nothing to do with the church Jesus built is another story and such ones need to be corrected in this sense.

Pearl Doxsey is on the same stage as such ones like Jay Smith and David Wood to name a few.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

He gets his information from Pearl Doxsey, a person of whom has been mention several times in some Christian discussions and debate elsewhere. This is the same person who puts forth of what is accursed that is a direct opposite regarding God's Order, and what Orderly Worship entails.

This is the same one has led ones to have no idea who the Assyrians were who tried to confront Hezekiah and the same info pulled from her which led so and so to believe God sent Satan to attack the Egyptians, which is ridiculous and unfounded in the Old Testament, as well as adhere to a doctrine that does not originate with the church.

It is one thing to not agree with someone, that is for certain, but to proclaim teachings and doctrines that has nothing to do with the church Jesus built is another story and such ones need to be corrected in this sense.

Pearl Doxsey is on the same stage as such ones like Jay Smith and David Wood to name a few.

It’s time to tell you, SM, I am not a “he”, but a “she”.  It shouldn’t matter though, since anointed are neither “male or female”; but for you, I am sure all “hell” will break lose and you will write me a book about it.  Gal 3:28

It is amazing that two worthless anointed women from the WT, are able to discern the man of lawlessness standing in the Temple of God, isn’t it, and continually expose the Man of Lawlessness for what it has done to God’s priesthood.  Rev 11:1-3   What was God thinking anyway!  Maybe He was thinking that men in their haughtiness who rule the organization, would see just what God meant when Mary proclaimed, “He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly”.  Luke 1:52…..

Or when Jesus said, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”….Matt 23:12…

Ps 138:6 – “Though the Lord is on high,
Yet He regards the lowly;
But the proud He knows from afar.”


“Orderly worship” concerns the anointed Body of Christ, where again, it doesn’t matter who is female or male. They are all “living stones”.  Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9  I also know many male anointed ones who seem just fine with what I do, or with what Pearl does.  They are my brothers in Christ.

You are full of misconceptions concerning the anointed and the Watchtower.  I am very sorry about this.  Also, the two men that you mention are not JWs, nor does it seem they ever were.  They are not anointed “priests” of God.  

The message in Revelation is to the anointed priests of God and those with them. 

 

 

 

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@Space Merchant I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all. You seem to love linking me with others, so be it. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me. A bit of light hearted pleasure. 

As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised'  Well maybe they are . 

Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 

 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,

    Hello guest!
 and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation. Yet he said they were from their father the Devil.  So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ? And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised.  

Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change. So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right.  If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org :) 

 

 

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Dear Mr. SM

You may not agree with the opinions, attitudes, beliefs of other people. That's your right. As it is right for anyone else here.

But I have noticed that you love/enjoy, when you humiliate other people because they have different thinking than/from your's. You (often) assign them with various depreciatory attributes. Some of us are your targets on daily basis :)))), and your behavior in this manner is not something that can be called  as - The Christian way.  


What I have noticed is this, I do not remember that Witness ever sent you any offensive word !!!

Well, i can see difference between her's Christianity and your's Christianity. :)))

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15 hours ago, Witness said:

It’s time to tell you, SM, I am not a “he”, but a “she”.  It shouldn’t matter though, since anointed are neither “male or female”; but for you, I am sure all “hell” will break lose and you will write me a book about it.  Gal 3:28

Then what of you literally, hence why I refer to you as such, for if you are indeed female, I will make reference to you as such, but if male, vice versa. But now you show yourself this I can see as of recent for I mistook you for male since our early discussion and during that time there was no indication on your part whatsoever.

Now, this verse I had already explained, and this first is of those of the spiritual house which is correct, but it does not disqualify what orderly worship is, hence why I stated previously, emotions and options cannot counter fact that of what the Church professed (we can only learn and understand and apply but the core things of the church we never do away with - ever), the very reason I asked you to give me an actual name of such a person in religious office before you did give the information and you attempted to use a judge in place of a religious leader, thus as the history of Christian entails, as with the church Jesus built - what you were pushing in our last discussion was not only nowhere to be found in the Bible, but it has no mention or practice in the history of the church, granted from the 1st to 4th century and onward we see what Paul means in regards to Orderly Worship.

That being said, I can gladly show Kosonen the discussion, if need be. For if what you were professing was indeed truth, then it would be evident in our history, which in this case, is unfounded, thus all those Biblical Facts I mentioned is indeed true. I make this same case with such ones who make claim women cannot do anything and or give aid by means of the roles they have in the church, even speak, hence why they find any discussion in this regard as difficult when on Apostle Paul's part, it is very simple.

 

15 hours ago, Witness said:

It is amazing that two worthless anointed women from the WT, are able to discern the man of lawlessness standing in the Temple of God, isn’t it, and continually expose the Man of Lawlessness for what it has done to God’s priesthood.  Rev 11:1-3   What was God thinking anyway!  Maybe He was thinking that men in their haughtiness who rule the organization, would see just what God meant when Mary proclaimed, “He has put down the mighty from their thrones and exalted the lowly”.  Luke 1:52…..

Or when Jesus said, “For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”….Matt 23:12…

Ps 138:6 – “Though the Lord is on high,
Yet He regards the lowly;
But the proud He knows from afar.”

 

And yet to teach something that is totally against the church yet when prove is asked of you, nothing was said and cannot be brought up in terms of Christianity's History and or what is found of the Bible, hence you trying to mix in those of the Spiritual House with how the Church is Structured.

One of the reasons why Christians who know who so and so are, as with others, do not agree with them in the slightest if it is something accursed and or a teaching that never originated in the Church Jesus built.

Very reasons why Matthew 15:6 can be used in this sense, as with Matthew 7:23 in terms of those who defy God's Law and what Jesus had commanded. This also goes for those who water down Christ's whole as a King and Mighty Warrior, as per last discussion.

No one thinks for God, hence why people such as myself will defend God's Purpose, God's Will, God's Order, God's Love, according to Scripture, if need be.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

“Orderly worship” concerns the anointed Body of Christ, where again, it doesn’t matter who is female or male. They are all “living stones”.  Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5,9  I also know many male anointed ones who seem just fine with what I do, or with what Pearl does.  They are my brothers in Christ.

Indeed, this I proclaimed to you before. But it does not negate Apostle Paul's own words, nor does it negate the Structure of which Paul professes. Reasons why he spoke of Creation, of man and or woman and the evident roles in the Church.

If they are just fine, can you inform us here a female church leader of religious office between the 1st to 4th century of the church's history? If Pearl things otherwise, how does is this seen as a truth to you when it was never in practice? The very core of what our last discussion was about - such of which has been refuted with undeniable fact.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

The message in Revelation is to the anointed priests of God and those with them. 

Ok, but what does that have to do with God's Order in terms of the evidence we see in regards to Apostle Paul? Yes both men and women are of the Spiritual House, they can be chosen by God hence being of the Priesthood - but we see nothing in the Bible or the history of the church whereas the roles in which Paul professes is shared between the sexes let alone shifted - as of what I made a response to you before, for unlike you and to Pearl - Paul, a man who has the holy spirit upon him does not make mistaken opinions, be speaks what is true to what we see in the Scriptures.

Plus this also put you in a position of mixing information even verses to justify something that has nothing to do with a passage and or the church, like the time you had turned a justify a Strong's word in a verse that was metaphorical and not literal.

As I have said to you before. Teach yourself before you teach others, otherwise people will come to correct, even be critical with you, as with those who can see and discern false information from true information.

That being said, Biblical Facts are solid, and God isn't the author of confusion, so the church and her teachings have not changed to carter to the emotions and opinions of those who wish to change the church into something entirely different.

That being said, made a response to Kosonen, not you, after all, the lot of you had the luxury of making a referring to me, and yet when the tables are turned, there is quite the gnashing of the teeth.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

You are full of misconceptions concerning the anointed and the Watchtower.  I am very sorry about this.  Also, the two men that you mention are not JWs, nor does it seem they ever were.  They are not anointed “priests” of God.  

Am I? Can you show the evidence to that when I had spoken boldly of the chosen ones of the Priesthood?

Who said they were JWs? Never once I had made the claim that they are, nor have I stated Mr. White to be a JW. They, as in all of them, are of mainstream Christendom, like you, they too believe God's Order of how the Church is has no say in the actual practice of the church vs. what is accursed.

Both Wood and Smith are, like you, focuses their time and energy to use conspiracy and misconceptions to deal blows to the other.

The difference between them and you is the fact they refuse the truth itself and will do everything in their power to take you down because of it, even going as far as to send their "people" after you. You on the other hand, I merely see as misguided, and needing to stand up to understand the Scriptures, and perhaps the Strong's also because like them, you mixed that up as well.

For even if I gave you the information from either blue letter or biblehub, you somehow miss it or refuse it when the Strong's speak louder than claims in the matter.

That being said, elsewhere, like Pearl, Mr. Wood, Mr. Smith, Mr. White, and a whole list of others are being talked about, as is with those of Babylon's religion that is of the Kairos Movement, but of course you have no idea of what took place in the span of years in this regard, hence why even before I told you to be careful of such ones, unless you consider one warning of such to be an insult, best take that advice because many have fallen to such, as last month was an example.

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6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Dear Mr. SM

You may not agree with the opinions, attitudes, beliefs of other people. That's your right. As it is right for anyone else here.

I go by what the Bible says, I go by what Christian History says, and if a man professes God sent Satan to do away with the firstborns of the Egyptians, of course I will speak up. If you read the Bible, you'd understand what it means to understand what is the truth and to even defend it, and if someone says such a thing that is not in accordance with such, something can and will be said, as is with the misconceptions of others.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But I have noticed that you love/enjoy, when you humiliate other people because they have different thinking than/from your's. You (often) assign them with various depreciatory attributes. Some of us are your targets on daily basis :)))), and your behavior in this manner is not something that can be called  as - The Christian way.  

Can you show me an example of where I take delight and enjoyment in such, if I may ask? Because in most of my response I even tell people to repent, do the research, learn the history and so forth. You consider educating oneself as an insult?

I do not target such ones, like I said before, if someone makes a response to me even make mention of me, a response will follow by me. If someone speaks something that is not of the Bible, a response from me will be expected. If someone speaks of falsehood and conspiracy, expect a response from me. Did you think I was not serious in my own words, Srecko?

I defend Abraham from your response before, I am not the time to remain silent on to a man who speaks ill of Abraham, the man who is a friend of God.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What I have noticed is this, I do not remember that Witness ever sent you any offensive word !!!

He never said anything offensive, I recall all discussions on his end. Despite my stance with him I do encourage him to read and research, even tell him misinformation can cause such ones like Witness to stumble and or be misguided, which seems to be the case.

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, i can see difference between her's Christianity and your's Christianity. :)))

Ok, then you tell me who is right in the matter?

  • I profess that God's Order has never changed, hence why how the Church is structure, both men and women have roles in the church, but the roles have not changed.
  • In my last discussion with Witness, the view profess was that anyone can have any role within the church, regardless of the person's sex and makes a justification by throwing in the spiritual house which does not counter to the fact of Paul's on words on the matter.

You tell me who is correct and who is incorrect in accordance with Apostle Paul?

Clearly one who is telling the truth, the other is misguided.

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17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think i will continue to like every comment you dislike just for the fun of it all.

Ok. So should it concern me now or when you want to reference elsewhere? Be it direct or indirect because it matters not to me, I will simply make mention of it, as I have recently.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You seem to love linking me with others, so be it.

So far in this thread I only responded to Kosonen about Witness, hence his statement. in the other thread, you were seen in agreement with them, hence why I mentioned you. As I had seen this as an example hence what I discussed with you before on a specific Bible verse, which to your reaction when corrected, you did not like the answer, which was taken from the very source you used.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

. I will join in your game and it will become fun for me.

Games are for children, and clearly I am not one. The same can be said to you.

That being said no one has time for games.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As for you implying something like 'Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised'  Well maybe they are .

I never said you said that so do not twist and or lie here because I can quickly bring up the response. I asked you that question because you were in agreement with Witness and, you even  made an indirect response towards me, so I asked you the very question from the very response of Witness of which you were seem to agree with, moreover, I even added, who brought up that remark, even by name.

You should know better as to what I have said and certianly I never phrased such the way you had written it as seen here "Butler said that the GB of JW org are demonised"?

The actions of a few souls do not define all persons, if an American man commits a crime, it does not define other Americans yet you have people who run that mentality pin the blame on ALL Americans when that is not the case. I stated that because of the actions of a few people it does not define a whole group, I even attest to an example, one man, even if it is a JW or not, his or her actions should he or she do anything criminal, that one does not define the others, he does not define any else of the faith on the other side of the globe, this is also in the realm of race and education but you were quick to say I feel inferior when such an mentality of people is a reality, moreover, at one time you even stated in one of our discussion from your experience in a JW church, you assume all elders are the same, the elders in your church is not like a elder and or pastor in the US, in Asia, all persons are different, all walks of life differ from each other, the actions of a single soul does not define the masses, not to mention calling of judgment when you yourself stated you do not know the person, and yet you judged a teenager who does forgive people.

That being said, you merely defeated yourself because what I had said should be understood as to what I am conveying. You yourself stated you do not judge but you do regardless, yet when you assume someone is judging you you bring forth claim someone is judging, yet it didn't stop you from doing the same to someone who is 3 times younger than you regarding who actually forgives people who do bad things and who does not.

Therefore, granted your claim you'd be wise to know exactly what I said and what I convey otherwise I can, if need be, John 8:44 can be used against you, in this sense. I'd add anther verse, but it will clearly not be in your favor.

Like in Jesus' day, because of how Jews were to their neighbors, some of their neighbors are good people, for if someone did something to someone or the like it does not define all of them. Reasons why we have examples in the bible that teaches such, like the example regarding the Samaritans, surely this should not be avoided by you because it this there regardless of what translation you use, be it a Bible with authentic and or non-authentic text. 

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus said as recorded at John 8 v 44 

 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began,

    Hello guest!
 and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.

So you have a chance to redeem yourself here, attest to the claims of which you made elsewhere because right now they remain unfounded.

For what you are professing is as fake as the claim you made that I support Islam when I only explained the faith of Muslims, to add, you even agreed with my statements when I cleared out some misconceptions of that faith group. The irony.

For if you cannot prove that or your claim of me supporting Islam - This verse can be used against you.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees but they had been God's chosen people, part of God's chosen nation.

And your point? Also you do realize some of the Jews at that time were of bad influence, like the ones that were seeking to kill Jesus, right?

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So, think on it, why cannot the GB of JW Org be from 'their father the Devil' ?

Probably because they, like many Christians who are not of the mainstream are seeking the truth and striving to be like the early church, granted that they, as do some, retain their Restorationist roots unlike their counterparts.

That being said, what would I would be fascinated by since you said that is your claim of knowing who is approved of God and who is not. For how, Mr. Butler, you know and or even think for God, in this sense?

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And if that is correct they would be demonised, or would that be Devilised.  

And yet because of your experience you assume all of them are the same. Reasons why I said to you the actions of a few does not define the masses, such is of an absurd mentality practices by the people of today's society, example would be the sheer disdain for all British folk because of reasons, it does not define all British people, it does not define you either because you are in no way shape or form connect to the sins and or ill actions of the culprit. Then again you will be evasive and attest to me or someone else as being and or thinking of oneself being inferior because such one is able to see the world for what it truly is, such one is aware of who is currently ruling this world, as the bible makes it clear.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Remember that many Jews / Israelites remained in their Jewish faith, but they were wrong not to change.

Your point is exactly? Which begs the question, do you even know the difference between Natural Israel and Spiritual Israel? Granted, you do realize later on in the church the Jews and the Gentiles were also in union with the Christ.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So just because the JW Org has 8 million followers, does not make it right. 

Well they did say they were prophets inspired and or infallible, however, they, like many of us are modern day prophets, Christians, who are spirit led.

That being said, perhaps the difference to a Christian such as yourself and an ancient Christian, an ancient one is not willing to toss up a law and or commandment for the sake of tradition.

Other than that, they are at 8.45-8.5 million adherents according to Christian statistics and demographics.

17 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If the amount of people in a religion made it right then the Catholic church or Islam would be more right than the JW Org :) 

So now you are confusing Christendom with those of creeds and or other - this is a new one. The only thing that is right is the apostolic church and her teachings, and you will be quite surprised of how few are striving to be like that church, which tells you something.

But regardless of anyone from any of those Abrahamic Faiths, it does not disqualify such ones, like you, to be unaware of the Hebrew and or Greek Text and it's context and language forms - as is there is quite the example you posed before.

Therefore, I encourage you to read and study, it will help you greatly, but every time I say this, you do not apply it. Which proves my point time and time again and what I had professed to Witness just now about examples like Wood and Smith.

That being said, I recall asking you a elementary biblical question, for if you could not answer that correctly when people out and about in the world can and will ask you the same thing, that is a sign whereas more reading must be done, and mind you, that was but one of many things people are often asked when the evangelizing ministry work.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

for if you are indeed female

 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

He never said anything offensive, I recall all discussions on his end. Despite my stance with him I do encourage him to read and research, even tell him misinformation can cause such ones like Witness to stumble and or be misguided, which seems to be the case.

 

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Did you think I was not serious in my own words, Srecko?

Yes you are serious, no doubt.

But if another participant clearly say to you how She is SHE not HE, why you put that in question? You are not showing respect to Witness as female. Why you are stubborn in calling Her as he?

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31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes you are serious, no doubt.

Always.

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But if another participant clearly say to you how She is SHE not HE, why you put that in question?

Well you do realize I just recently found out this revelation that she was female and not male. No indication was presented in all discussion even the earliest ones.

My own words is the following, so perhaps read the full response than take a snippet of it.

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

Then what of you literally, hence why I refer to you as such, for if you are indeed female, I will make reference to you as such, but if male, vice versa. But now you show yourself this I can see as of recent for I mistook you for male since our early discussion and during that time there was no indication on your part whatsoever.

So clearly now I know after she said something, clearly if someone has the name of hers I was not able to tell, for example if like Anna, it is understandable because it is evident.

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You are not showing respect to Witness as female.

How am I not showing respect if I just found out Witness was female when all this time I thought she was male? Granted I assume she was male this whole time since the other discussions, granted the first discussion was indeed a debate.

And no, as I told Witness in the past, disrupting and or insulting someone of the opposite sex is not something that aligns with my culture, whatsoever. the very reasons I told her before to her claim of my view on women based on the implication she made on a typo, for W to w does not automatically define one as misogynistic.

that being said, it is odd of such coming from you granted what you said of what God thinks of people in regards to a small remark you made on your part, granted, I corrected you that God considers what you professed to as detestable.

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why you are stubborn in calling Her as he?

Perhaps because I recently found out. How is that stubbornness? Moreover, you even cut half of my comment to justify your claims.

That being said, never insulted her either if you making such implication. Someone who encourages one to make the research does not yield upon insult in the end, this also goes for correcting and or rooting our the wrongs.

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1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

when all this time I thought she was male

Yes, you are free to have your free thoughts about all. Will you be so kind to tell us: Why you thought, all this time, she was male? What reason you have to thought that way all this time? 

Well, is it possible how your own a predetermined idea caused wrong perception? Not only in gender issue, of course :)))

1 hour ago, Space Merchant said:

so perhaps read the full response

.... this is for sure good advice, but please make your comments shorter for purpose to be readable in normal space/time framework. Thanks in advance :))

 

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49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes, you are free to have your free thoughts about all. Will you be so kind to tell us: Why you thought, all this time, she was male? What reason you have to thought that way all this time? 

Perhaps because it was mention just now. Granted in some instances if you knew this yourself you'd would have brought this up in many instances in order to correct me.

Regardless, it still does not negate the actions of a few to define all persons of that faith, nor does it disqualify one to speak up on falsehood, misinformation, and or conspiracy.

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, is it possible how your own a predetermined idea caused wrong perception? Not only in gender issue, of course :)))

So can you inform me as for months that went on by from 2017 up into now nearly 2019 when I just no found out this revelation it is somehow a predetermined idea? For when I assumed she was male did it not come to you during those times to correct me when I said it, let alone she herself would have corrected me but only now this is known?

Gender issues, no because I defended that, even against you I have. But be it of any gender regarding the church, how the church was brought about still stands, no one can change what God has put in motion and what his Son has built. One of the issues in regards as to where I strongly disagree with those who profess that let alone those who adhere to utter silence and no roles given.

49 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

.... this is for sure good advice, but please make your comments shorter for purpose to be readable in normal space/time framework. Thanks in advance :))

The ironic is you defeated yourself in this sense because that response was indeed short. I even quoted myself, but as always you seem to ignore what is in front of you. Whether my response are brief or extensive, you still adhere to that same reasoning, that being said, the fact you cannot tell who was right or wrong in this sense, pertaining to what was asked of you above, further proves my point.

That being said, God's Order has not changed. Other than that, should I discuss what is being spoken of at hand, surely you would disagree because any person who shifts God's Order would most likely not understand what is to be conveyed in regards to such.

Just know that every time I am brief, the brief response cuts far greater than a sword, and you already seen and experience such an example. I will gladly be as such with you should debate and or discussion calls for it, mainly when you speak ill of anyone of God's followers in the bible, just know what is to come.

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3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, God's Order has not changed.

Not changed in what subjects, about what? That WT belongs to a group (Restoration Group) of true religions that are closest to Primitive Christianity ? And how all "Order" that this Restoration churches have in their systems is from God??

 

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

when you speak ill of anyone of God's followers in the bible

Ill speaking ? You are too harsh. I am speaking openly with critical questions, because all characters in Bible are simply human as we are today. Well, if you speaking about me and I about you, and all together (both of us)  about them, we put their life, words and deeds under some sort of the magnifying glass. We have to question and explore to understand better. If sometimes going very far with that, why you worry? Everything will come to their place, soon or later. :))  

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7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not changed in what subjects, about what? That WT belongs to a group (Restoration Group) of true religions that are closest to Primitive Christianity ? And how all "Order" that this Restoration churches have in their systems is from God??

Yes, they are Restorationist and only a few of them out there. And you know exactly what I am talking about regarding orderly Worship, don't tell me you forgot already, you were defending something that was never of the church at all, even trying to use Galatians 3 verses to justify your defense when God's Order differs from Being in Union with Christ, it does not chance the structure, as Paul made it clear.

Then you went on to say a woman named Chloe owns a Church, which is, false, on your part. The House of Chloe or Chloe specifically never led a Church of ANY kind.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

ll speaking ? You are too harsh. I am speaking openly with critical questions, because all characters in Bible are simply human as we are today. Well, if you speaking about me and I about you, and all together (both of us)  about them, we put their life, words and deeds under some sort of the magnifying glass. We have to question and explore to understand better. If sometimes going very far with that, why you worry? Everything will come to their place, soon or later. :))  

You were harsh on Abraham and Sarah, I merely spoke up to defend them, as with Jesus' disciple. You assume Abraham was influenced by the Devil and that Abraham was selfish and to some extent mocked him, when his wife along with him were trying to survive granted they had the promise of God. You even stated that one of Jesus' disciples was under temptation when he was defending Jesus, which was unfounded.

You set yourself up with those claims, and I haven't even got into your outlandish claims of undeath doctrine you leaned towards, which is, not only accursed, but borderline satanic.

That being said,

you can explore and dwell on your own claims, granted none of them in this regard, cannot be proven.

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      Voici cette petite histoire:
      Un jour, plusieurs différents sentiments cohabitaient tous ensemble sûr une Ile: le Bonheur, la Tristesse, le Savoir ; ainsi que tous les autres, l’Amour y compris. Un jour, on annonça aux sentiments de la région , que l’île où tous vivaient, allait couler. Ils préparèrent donc tous leurs bateaux et partirent. Seul l’Amour resta. L’Amour voulait rester jusqu’au dernier moment. Quand l’île fût près à sombrer, l’Amour décida d’appeler à l’aide à ces concitoyens. Le premier fut "La Richesse" qui passa à côté de l’Amour, dans un luxueux bateau. L’Amour lui dit : « Richesse, peux-tu m’emmener ? »Alors la Richesse lui dit : Non! mon ami l'Amour, " je ne peux t'aider, car il y a beaucoup d’argent et d’or sur mon bateau et je n’ai pas assez de place pour toi." Bonne chance Amour.
      La richesse laissa Amour dans les eaux profondes qui l'entourait et continua son chemin. L’Amour décida alors de demander à l’Orgueil, qui passait aussi dans un magnifique bateau. Alors l'Amour s'exclama « Orgueil, aide-moi, je t’en prie ! » l'Orgueil répondit à l'Amour« je ne puis t’aider, Amour. Tu es tout mouillé et tu pourrais endommager mon bâteau. L'Orgueil, n'aida en aucune manière l'Amour et continua à voguer sur les eaux immense. Plus tard »La Tristesse passa à côté, de l’Amour. L'Amour lui demanda :«"Tristesse, laisses-moi venir avec toi. » la tristesse le regarda et dit: « Ooh… Amour, je suis tellement triste que j’ai besoin d’être seule ! Bonne chance Amour". L'Amour ne se découragea pas et se laissa porter sur les eaux. Quelle minutes plus tard » Le Bonheur passa aussi à côté de l’Amour , mais il était si heureux, qu’il n’entendit même pas l’Amour l’appeler! Soudain, une voix dit sur un bateau de lumière immaculée comme ressemblant à des nuages matérialisés " Viens Amour," je te prends avec moi." L'Amour distingua que celui qui le prit sur son bateau blanc immaculé, était un vieillard, de lui venait les paroles de son sauveur des eaux tulmultueuses. L’Amour se senti si reconnaissant et plein de joie, qu’il en oublia de demander le nom au vieillard. Lorsqu’ils arrivèrent sur la terre ferme, le vieillard s’en alla. L’Amour réalisa combien, il lui devait pour l'avoir sauvé, et aussitôt un Être apparut à l'Amour, Cette personne qui apparut devant lui était "Le Savoir" de toutes choses, alors l'Amour qui était devant Lui, demanda au Savoir :« Qui m’a aidé ? »Le Savoir Dit« C’était "le Temps" » répondit le Savoir.« Le Temps ? » s’interrogea l’Amour.« Mais pourquoi le Temps m’a –t-il aidé ? » Le Savoir sourit, plein de sagesse, et répondit :« C’est parce que seul le Temps est capable de comprendre combien l’Amour est important dans la vie. »
      Que veux dire cette histoire que je vous aie raconté?
      Je vais laisser votre pensée réfléchir en cette histoire et je vais donner l'explication de cette histoire à la fin de ce discours.





      Restons vivifiant d'un Amour sincère.


      DANS de nombreux pays, nous avons recourt de plus en plus aux caméras de surveillance pour observer la circulation routière et filmer les accidents. En cas de délit de fuite, ces enregistrements peuvent permettre à la police de retrouver et d’arrêter le chauffard. À vrai dire, avec ces yeux électroniques un peu partout, il est de plus en plus difficile d’échapper aux conséquences de ses actes.
      Cet abondant recours à la vidéosurveillance, devrait-il, nous rappeler un tant soit peu notre Père bienveillant, Jéhovah ? La Bible dit en effet que ses yeux « sont en tout lieu » (Prov. 15:3). Mais cela veut-il dire qu’il examine constamment à la loupe nos faits et gestes ? Nous observe-t-il avec la seule intention de faire respecter ses lois et de nous punir ? (Jér. 16:17 ; Héb. 4:13). Pas du tout ! Il nous observe en premier lieu parce qu’il nous aime et se soucie de notre bonheur (1 Pierre 3:12).
      Jéhovah nous surveille par amour.

      Qu’est-ce qui nous aidera à comprendre que Jéhovah nous surveille parce qu’il nous aime ? Nous examinerons ensemble cinq façons dont cet intérêt se manifeste : 1) Il nous met en garde lorsque nous montrons de mauvaises inclinations, 2) il nous corrige lorsque nous faisons un faux pas, 3) il nous guide grâce aux principes que renferme sa Parole, 4) il nous soutient lorsque nous traversons diverses épreuves et 5) il nous récompense lorsqu’il remarque le bon qui est en nous.

      LE DIEU ATTENTIF NOUS MET EN GARDE

      Premièrement, examinons comment Dieu nous met en garde lorsque nous montrons de mauvaises inclinations (1 Chron. 28:9). Pour bien saisir cet aspect de son observation attentive, voyons comment il a traité Caïn, qui « s’enflamma d’une grande colère » parce qu’il n’avait pas obtenu l’approbation divine (lire Genèse 4:3-7). Nous voyons ici que Jéhovah lui a vivement conseillé de « [se mettre] à bien agir ». Il l’a prévenu que s'il ne changeait de comportement, le péché était « tapis à l’entrée ». Puis il lui a demandé : « Te rendras-tu maître de lui ? » Dieu voulait que Caïn tienne compte de l’avertissement et qu’« [il y ait] élévation », que Caïn retrouve sa faveur. Il conserverait alors une bonne relation avec Dieu.

      Les yeux de Jéhovah voient clair dans notre cœur ; nous ne pouvons pas lui cacher nos inclinations et nos motivations. Notre Père bienveillant veut que nous marchions dans les voies de la justice ; pourtant, il ne nous force pas à changer de route. Lorsque nous allons dans la mauvaise direction, il nous met en garde par sa Parole, la Bible. Comment ? Dans notre lecture biblique quotidienne, nous tombons souvent sur des passages qui nous aident à surmonter de mauvaises tendances ou des inclinations malsaines. De plus, nos publications chrétiennes traitent parfois d’une difficulté contre laquelle nous luttons et nous montrent comment la surmonter. Enfin, aux réunions de la congrégation, chacun de nous reçoit au bon moment les conseils dont nous avons besoin !

      Toutes ces mises en garde, écrite dans la parole, la bible, qu'elles sont vraiment la preuve que Jéhovah surveille chacun de nous individuellement et cela avec amour. Il est vrai que les paroles consignées dans la Bible existent depuis des siècles, que les publications préparées par l’organisation de Jéhovah sont écrites pour des millions de personnes et que les conseils donnés lors des réunions s’adressent à toute la congrégation. Mais dans tous ces cas, Jéhovah dirige l’attention de chacun, individuellement, vers sa Parole, afin que chacun puisse modifier ses inclinations. Ainsi, on peut dire que toutes ces dispositions sont la preuve que Jéhovah te surveille personnellement avec amour.

      Pour tirer profit des avertissements de Dieu, nous devons d’abord comprendre en profondeur sa parole? Quelle aide notre Père aimant nous fournit-il ?


      Lorsque que nous méditons sur la Parole et nous faisons des recherches profondes sur ces principes biblique, nous apprenons à nous corriger intérieurement et ainsi nous nous rendons particulièrement compte que Jéhovah veille sur nous.

      Bien sûr, il n’est pas spécialement agréable de se faire conseiller ou corriger, mais Jéhovah demande à chaque serviteur, de suivre la discipline enseigné dans sa paroles, de part nos yeux, par la méditation, la lecture attentive et en manifester les rappels constant (Héb. 12:11). Réfléchissons à ce que Jéhovah examine en nous. Nous devons être conscient que chaques actions de notre part pourraient nuire à notre relation avec Dieu. Nous devons se soucier de nos sentiments que nous véhiculons envers les autres. Enfin, nous devons être prêt à donner de son temps et de son énergie pour manifester les changements primordiales, à l’aide de la Bible, manifester les actions requises qui mène à plaire à Jéhovah .


      En psaumes 73:24 Le psalmiste a chanté à Jéhovah : « Par ton conseil tu me conduiras » (Ps. 73:24). Quand nous avons besoin d’une direction, nous pouvons « [tenir] compte de » Jéhovah en cherchant dans sa Parole la vrai direction de penser.

      Oui, par sa Parole, Jéhovah nous guide pour nous aider à surmonter les difficultés de la vie si nous demondons à Jehovah de nous guider personnellement.
      Psaume chapitre 37 à lire en entier.

      Pour quel genre de raisons Jéhovah n’intervient-il pas toujour dans nos difficultés personnelles ?

      Jéhovah a peut-être de bonnes raisons de ne pas intervenir dans certaines situations. Imaginons qu’à nos yeux, notre être intérieur fut blessé mais que Jéhovah ait un autre point de vue, que, selon lui, tu as plus de torts, que tu ne le penses. La remarque que tu as trouvée si vexante peut, en fait, être un conseil justifié, auquel tu ferais bien de réfléchir. Dans sa biographie, frère Karl Klein, qui a été membre du Collège central, a raconté qu’un jour, que frère Rutherford l’avait repris avec franchise. Par la suite, frère Rutherford lui a adressé un joyeux « Bonjour, Karl ! » Mais, vexé par la réprimande, frère Klein lui a répondu du bout des lèvres. Comprenant qu’il lui en voulait, frère Rutherford l’a prévenu qu’il risquait de devenir la proie du Diable. Frère Klein écrira : « Quand nous avons de la rancœur contre un de nos frères, surtout si c’est parce qu’il nous a dit quelque chose qu’il était en droit de nous dire dans l’exercice de ses fonctions, alors nous prêtons le flanc aux attaques du Diable. »

      Quand une épreuve semble s’éterniser, nous pourrions nous impatienter. Que faire alors ? Supposons, que nous roulons sur une autoroute et que nous nous trouvons pris dans un embouteillage. Nous ne savons pas combien de temps cette situation va durer. Si nous nous irritons et que nous essayons de prendre un autre chemin, nous risquons de se perdre et, au bout du compte, d’arriver à destination plus tard que si nous avions patiemment suivi le premier itinéraire. Pareillement, si nous restons sur les voies tracées par la Parole de Dieu, en temps voulu, nous arriverons, à la destination prévu.
      Il se peut également que, lorsque nous sommes éprouvés, Jéhovah n’intervienne pas tout de suite parce qu’il veut que nous recevions une précieuse formation (lire 1 Pierre 5:6-10). Dieu n’inflige aucune épreuve (Jacq. 1:13). La plupart des malheurs viennent de « [notre] adversaire, le Diable ». Par contre, Dieu peut se servir d’une situation éprouvante pour nous aider à croître spirituellement. Il voit notre souffrance et, « parce qu’il se soucie » de nous, il veillera à ce qu’elle ne dure qu’« un peu de temps ». Quand nous sommes
      éprouvé, sommes-nous heureux que Jéhovah nous surveille, convaincu qu’il nous ménagera une issue ? (2 Cor. 4:7-9).

      LA JOIE D’ÊTRE APPROUVÉ PAR DIEU

      En fait, Jéhovah examine notre vie pour une raison des plus rassurantes. Par l’intermédiaire de Hanani le voyant, il a dit au roi Asa : « Car, en ce qui concerne Jéhovah, ses yeux rôdent par toute la terre, afin de montrer sa force en faveur de ceux dont le cœur est complet à son égard » (2 Chron. 16:9). Chez Asa, Dieu n’a pas trouvé un cœur complet. Mais si nous, nous continuons à faire ce qui est droit, Jéhovah « montrer[a] sa force » en notre faveur.

      Dieu veut que nous « recherch[ions] ce qui est bon », que nous « aim[ions] ce qui est bon » et que nous « fass[ions] ce qui est bon » afin qu’il puisse nous « témoign[er] de la faveur » (Amos 5:14, 15 ; 1 Pierre 3:11, 12). Il remarque les justes et il les bénit (Ps. 34:15). Songeons, par exemple, aux accoucheuses hébreues, Shiphra et Poua. Alors qu’Israël était en esclavage en Égypte, ces femmes ont craint Dieu plus que Pharaon, qui leur avait ordonné de tuer à la naissance tous les garçons hébreux. Manifestement, leur conscience les a poussées à garder les bébés en vie. Par la suite, Jéhovah « leur fit don de familles » (Ex. 1:15-17, 20, 21). Leurs belles actions n’avaient pas échappé à Jéhovah, dont les yeux « rôdent». Parfois, nous avons peut-être l’impression que personne ne remarque nos belles actions. Mais notre Père céleste y est attentif. Il remarque toute bonne action et il nous récompensera en temps voulu(Mat. 6:4, 6 ; 1 Tim. 5:25 ; Héb 6:10.
      Jéhovah voit tout ce que nous faisons, tôt ou tard, il nous récompensera. En prenant conscience qu’il a l’œil sur nous alors n’ayons pas l’impression d’être sous le regard froid et scrutateur d’une caméra de surveillance. Au contraire, sentons-nous encore plus proche du Dieu bienveillant qui se soucie réellement de nous!


      Revenons à la petite histoire du personnage Amour.
      Avant de vous expliquer le rappels de cette histoire allons lire les paroles de notre Guide JÉSUS Christ.
      Allons en Mathieu 22 :37 à 39
      Alors Jesus lui dit : “ Tu dois aimer Jéhovah ton Dieu de tout ton cœur, et de toute ton âme, et de toute ta pensée. 38 C’est là le plus grand et le premier commandement. 39 Le deuxième, qui lui est semblable, est celui-ci : Tu dois aimer ton prochain comme toi-même
      Mathieu 5:44 à 45a
      Continuez d’aimer vos ennemis et de prier pour ceux qui vous persécutent ; 45 afin de vous montrer fils de votre Père qui est dans les cieux.
      Alors revenons à cet histoire que je transcript au début.
      Nous avions plusieurs personnages, il eut Amour , Richesse, l'orgueil, la tristesse, le bonheur, Le Temps et Le Savoir. Chacun étaient différents en manière de penser, en comportement, pourtant ils parraissent tous ensembles, qu'ils ont réussit leur monde, ils ont ammasé des richesses, leur valeurs en leurs coeur, certains étaient très heureux de leur réussites. Les personnages de cet histoire, aucun personnages ne se montrèrent d'aucune arrogance envers Amour. Richesse, orgueil, tristesse et bonheur ont tous ignoré Amour.
      Amour paraissait être le seul à n'avoir pris aucune précaution au chaos qui venait. Amour avait passé sa vie à comprendre l'Amour de cette vie.
      Il n'avait pas de bateau., il n'avait rien ammassé de cette vie.
      Amour se souvenait que Dieu viendrait le chercher par les nuages matérialisés pour rencontrer le Savoir dans un lieu unique où tout les juste vont.psaime 37'10,11

      Le temps dans cet histoire, qui est le vieillard, est Jésus, Jésus à attendu le signal du Savoir avant de sauver sa brebis, Amour.
      Amour avait transmit à chaque personnages son attention de l'amour, son amour pour son prochain était réel, tous le connaissaient par son Nom "Amour".
      Le temps qui est(Jésus, le viellard) même lui l'a appelé Amour par son Nom.
      Qu'à fait Amour pour rencontrer Le Savoir qui est Jéhovah, comme Jésus il a pardonné les actions de tout ses ennemis, incluant dans sa vie relaté en Galantes 5 :22, 23 par sa maîtrise de soi il a conservé ses 7 qualités, les plus importantes de sa vie et cela jusqu'à presque perde sa vie dans les eaux tumulteuses et il reçu du Savoir, le fruit de L'amour de Jéhovah le Dieu de toutes connaissances, de toutes sagesses et des bénédictions, Amour à reçu  la Récompense  de la promesse qu'il avait attendu toute sa vie.

      Pour finir ce petit discours je vous laisse sur une belle citation de Paul sur le thème de l'Amour.

      L’amour est patient et bon. L’amour n’est pas jaloux, il ne se vante pas, ne se gonfle pas [d’orgueil], 5 n’agit pas de façon inconvenante, ne cherche pas ses propres intérêts, ne s’irrite pas. Il ne tient pas compte du mal subi. 6 Il ne se réjouit pas de l’injustice, mais se réjouit avec la vérité. 7 Il supporte tout, croit tout, espère tout, endure tout. 8 L’amour ne disparaît Jamais, car c'est celui qui aura enduré jusqu'à la fin et les yeux sur fixer sur L'ESPÉRANCE DE LA PROMESSE DE JÉHOVAH LE DIEU DE TOUTES BÉNÉDICTIONS.
      Comme notre petit personnage Amour Notre persévérance nous donnera la chance de recevoir le Prix des juste et des humbles de la terre.
      Cher Serviteurs de Jehovah, annoncons La GLOIRE EN NOTRE DIEU Jéhovah le Dieu de L'Amour, de toutes connaissances et sagesses profondes.
      YHWH ELEON.

      · 1 reply
    • jwdudleyusa  »  Deaf Hear USA

      Good News From God This 32 page booklet will answer many of your Bible questions.
      · 0 replies
    • jwdudleyusa  »  Deaf Hear USA

      Covid-19 - WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS – Matthew 24:1-14
      Satan the evil one controls the earth and mankind.  1 John 5:19.  John 8:44
      Logical explanations for the world’s problems.—Revelation 12:12.
      Reason to believe that our world will change for the better.—1 John 2:17.
       
       CAN WE REALLY BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS?
      Yes, for at least three reasons:
      Satan’s rulership is doomed. Jehovah is determined to bring Satan’s control over mankind to an end. He promises to “bring to nothing . . . the Devil” and undo all the damage that Satan has caused.—Hebrews 2:14,
      God has chosen Jesus Christ to rule the world. Jesus is the complete opposite of this world’s present cruel, selfish ruler. Concerning Jesus’ kingship, God promises: “He will have pity on the lowly and the poor . . . From oppression and from violence he will rescue them.”—Psalm 72:13, 14.
      God cannot lie. The Bible plainly states: “It is impossible for God to lie.” (Hebrews 6:18) When Jehovah promises to do something, it is as good as done! (Isaiah 55:10, 11) “The ruler of this world will be cast out.”—John 12:31.
      TO THINK ABOUT
      What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?
      The Bible answers that question at PSALM 37:10, 11, 29, and REVELATION 21:3, 4.
      Jehovah God truly loves the earth and mankind.  John 3:16
      · 0 replies
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