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All scripture is inspired of God. A small prophecy ?


JOHN BUTLER
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"All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,"

2 Timothy 3 v 16

Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?                 

The 2nd book of Timothy was written 65 C.E.  However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.

So we have two points, 1. The writings were not complete when Paul wrote that information. 2, The Bible had not been constructed so no idea would have been formed as to what the Bible would contain. 

Were there other writings ? Would they be considered as Scripture? 

It seems that Paul was inspired to write that "All scripture is inspired.... " 

 

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Further to all the earlier postings and your original point.  Yes, I can see what you mean. In the context of Paul's words having been written prior to John's writings, and to the consensus on what constituted the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures, then, yes, Paul's statement might be viewed as a mini-prophecy as you state. However, it is entirely unlikely that Paul meant specifically that his words should be understood that way. Rather, the purpose of his writing  was to instruc

The Bible is the perfect book it should be. But we should discern the spirit of the Christian message and not be distracted with so many lower-priority details that we miss the forest for the trees. As brought up in the post to @Outta Here we need to be alert to what we are being taught. If we understand the "spirit" of the message and the "priorities" we will not be quickly shaken from our reason in believing a message has apostolic authority when it really was just some speculation over less i

True. Also, it was an accusation from outsiders and therefore not necessarily an accurate reflection. But there is also the fact that it is not rebutted in Acts, and it fits what Jesus said about revealing truths not to the wise and intellectual.  (Matthew 11:25) . . .At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children." Paul reco

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@JOHN BUTLER First/Second Epistle of Paul to Timothy also known as The First/Second Epistle of Paul the Apostle to Timothy

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Yes all text is inspired, but at the same time it is also best to know who wrote what and when.

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I stand corrected, thank you. But the rest of the comment still stands. When Paul wrote those words he didn't know about the other scriptures to follow. Nor did he know about a 'Bible' being formed. 

I have now corrected the first comment. I should think more deeply before i write :( 

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10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When Paul wrote those words he didn't know about the other scriptures to follow. Nor did he know about a 'Bible' being formed

Opinion surely? We can't really state what Paul knew or didn't know on these matters, surely? He must have had some idea that there was a difference between "inspired" and non-inspired religious writings from his experience with the Hebrew Scriptures.

Probably you have a point that isn't coming across clearly to me here.

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4 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Opinion surely? We can't really state what Paul knew or didn't know on these matters, surely? He must have had some idea that there was a difference between "inspired" and non-inspired religious writings from his experience with the Hebrew Scriptures.

Probably you have a point that isn't coming across clearly to me here.

Well when i first started studying with the JW Org this scripture was used quite regularly. But I just accepted it as saying that the complete Bible was inspired of God. It is of course, but it never occured to me at the time that 'all scripture' had not been written when Paul made that statement. In my opinion, when many people study God's word with the JW's it's a bit parrot fashion, stick to the book. People don't seem to ask questions. I became of this opinion from the Book Study we used to have on a Tuesday evening at people's home. After the study people would stay for tea and biscuits, and there would be conversation. Most of the conversation was spiritual and I would ask people questions of their understanding of certain scriptures. It became clear to me that most JW's never questioned anything. They just took it for granted that the GB and the Org new everything and got everything right. It was from that time that I started to look deeper into God's word. Unfortunately at 69 years old, much of what I had learnt has gone. My mind / memory has deteriorated.  But there are a few things which i still find interesting, and this is one of them. How many JW's ever think of the fact that Paul wrote that information before the other scriptures were written and long before a Bible was composed ? 

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18 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Was this in it's way a small prophecy ?

Paul knew that Timothy was already well acquainted with the inspired Scriptures. So the reference would have been to the Hebrew Scriptures only at this time. This does not mean that Paul didn't recognize the status of at least some of his own letters or some parts of his own letters as "inspired." But it isn't likely Paul was referring to his own letters at this time, just the "Old Testament." Another question is whether Paul would have been thinking of the same set of books that we think of today. Some Jews and therefore some Jewish Christians might not have agreed on which books could be considered inspired (or partially inspired). I say partially, because some books had portions that included stories that were not considered inspired even if the primary portion of the book was considered inspired. (Daniel, Bel and the Dragon, Susannah and the Elders, etc., just as the book of John had a story about the near stoning of a woman caught in adultery, or Mark with both a short and long conclusion.

18 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

However 1,2,3, John and Revelation were written much later.

It's merely a tradition that tells us that the writer of 1,2,3 John and Revelation were the same person. Based on the language and grammar, it seems unlikely to many scholars that it was the same John who wrote Revelation. (The gospel of John was  apparently written by the same person who wrote 1,2, &3 John.) Also, there is some good external and some internal evidence and tradition that Revelation was written close to 96-100 CE. But there have also been some excellent scholarly books pointing to the possibility that Revelation could have been written prior to 70 CE. (Prior to Jerusalem's destruction by the Romans.)

For that matter, there is considerable speculation among scholars that the letters to Titus and Timothy were developed, more likely between 100 CE and 150 CE. This does not mean that they were not "Pauline," but to some scholars they appear to be attempts to turn Paul's counsel into a set of semi-legalistic rules. They are more akin, stylewise, to the style and content one would find in the books of 1 Clement, Ignatius or Polycarp. (Some of the writings and letters by the latter could well have been written prior to 1 & 2 Timothy.) If they are Paul's own direct words, many scholars find some of them at odds with the "spirit" of Paul's words in Thessalonians, Philippians, Romans and Corinthians.

Books of Enoch, Jannes and Jambres, The Assumption of Moses, 12 Patriarchs, Epistle of Barnabas, etc., were clearly very popular in some Christian circles likely going all the way back to the first century CE. There were also several gospel accounts that the writer of Luke hoped to replace with the gospel of Luke. This could have been one of the reasons that 1 John 4:1 asks Christians to "test the inspired utterances."

Of course, Christians much closer to the time when these books were first known were in a better position to test which of them had real apostolic authority and which came from the actual time period of the apostles. Also, when scholars look at supposed contradictions and assume a late authorship they are often taking the easy way out. Some portions of the Bible were clearly intended so that we would look at things from two different perspectives. The variations in the gospel accounts do not cause any doctrinal problems but they show different perspectives. The difference in James' statement that 'a person is declared righteous by works and not by faith alone,' while Paul says that 'a person is declared righteous by faith and not by works' is clearly intentional. These perspectives actually help us to 'make sure of all things.'

 

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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Another question is whether Paul would have been thinking of the same set of books that we think of today.

What part would the gift of "discerning the spirits" (as some translate 1Cor.12:10) have had in Paul's evaluating the spiritual credentials of religious writings available at the time? 

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@JW Insider So where is one supposed to start ? If you are saying that the Bible might not be the book it should be. 

You make the plot thicken very much. For simple men such as i who cannot comprehend so much information, is there no hope ? 

SM talks so much about Strongs. Should we need to dig so deeply to find the truth ?  Some of the disciples / apostles were fishermen, maybe not of the highest intelligence ? No insult intended but what I'm saying is they were inspired by God through Christ so they had divine guidance. What should i have ? I don't expect divine guidance, or should I ?  Jesus was talking to 'chosen ones' when he said 'ask and it will be given to you'. Hence i believe that only a true  anointed class can fully understand the truth of God's word.  

You seem to say that so many different scholars had so many different opinions. And then we have the GB that at times admit they 'get it wrong'.  So who really can we believe ? 

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4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

SM talks so much about Strongs. Should we need to dig so deeply to find the truth ?

Yes indeed, I do speak of Strong's. It is not unknown to anyone of what is implied when the Strong's are brought up, mainly when it comes to a correction of occurrences, the normal ones or the special ones. For instance, as per our last discussion regarding nakedness or an ambassador, the Strong's tell you which verses/passages uses the word, and what the meaning of that word used there entails, moreover it triumphs any understand of man in the process. Furthermore, it can be used to I.D. a Biblical Violation in Hebrew/Greek easily.

4 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

What should i have ? I don't expect divine guidance, or should I ? 

You have the Word of God in your hands. Read it daily. Research it. Observe it. Recite it. And then some. Learn of the teachings of the apostolic church Jesus built and then maybe you can learn something.

If a child can do it, in fact, if Jesus as a child can obverse and read the Shema Yisrael, the Old Testament, so can you.

In doing so you become knowledgeable, can memorized and recite a verse and or passage, the very context of it orally from memory even like remembering a part from a movie.

It is not burdensome unless you make it. This goes hand in hand with following the commandments and what is being asked of you, as a Christian under the New Covenant.

It does not hurt to learn a little Greek and or Hebrew, if I can recommend someone, I recommend Hebrew Professor Jeff A. Benner, with his information give it a few months, you will know quite a bit of Hebrew.

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11 hours ago, Outta Here said:

What part would the gift of "discerning the spirits" (as some translate 1Cor.12:10) have had in Paul's evaluating the spiritual credentials of religious writings available at the time?

Yes. Excellent point. I believe it has everything to do with it, and I believe that Paul was well aware of the responsibility and understood very uniquely from his own situation why such a spiritual gift was so important. After all, he was not one who had heard Jesus speak personally during Jesus' earthly life, and Paul at times, had to rebuke the very apostles who had such influence on others. The idea, I think, is even carried in the verse in the context of the idea of making sure of the more important things:

  • (Philippians 1:9-10) 9 And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that you may make sure of the more important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others up to the day of Christ;

Of course, Paul also made good and purposeful use of extra-Scriptural references which also were "useful for setting things straight and disciplining in righteousness," but in order for future congregations to be built especially upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Paul knew that, not just the Hebrew Scriptures, but also the authority of the apostles would become both the doctrinal and practical foundation of the congregations. He had to set things straight even among the other apostles, and the apostles were able to give Paul counsel, too. (Gal 2:10)

Fortunately, we don't need now to question anything that comes through the authority of the apostles. But we still need to follow the same principle of discernment that Paul used when questioning and accepting doctrine.

  • (Hebrews 5:12-14) 12 For although by now you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. 13 For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong.

Today, of course, we also need to be reliant upon good scholarship to avoid acceptance of certain statements that do not have "foundational" apostolic authority and yet have crept into our Bible texts. It's a modern form of the same spiritual gift of accurate knowledge (and full discernment.) 1 John 5:7.8 is the best example, The New World Translation committee has accurately removed the non-authoritative parts of 1 John 5:7,8, but there are dozens of full verses removed in lesser-known examples found in some of the older texts (not usually the oldest texts) and found not to be as reliable, based on "textual criticism." Some of these omissions seem innocuous, but they are still without sufficient apostolic authority to keep in the context with the authoritative verses.

By calling our Christian Greek Scriptures "apostolic", we acknowledge that some were not written directly by apostles, because most of the apostles were evidently unlettered (illiterate) and required second-hand "secretaries" to record their first-hand experiences and memories. Writings by non-apostles were accepted on the basis that they were understood to have come from those with a direct relationship to the apostles, and who lived at the time of the apostles. The significance given to this idea comes through the statement from Paul that the number of eyewitnesses to Jesus resurrection was known.

  • (Luke 1:1, 2) 1 Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts that are given full credence among us, 2 just as those who from [the] beginning became eyewitnesses and attendants of the message delivered these to us,
  • (2 Peter 1:16) 16 No, it was not by following artfully contrived false stories that we acquainted YOU with the power and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, but it was by having become eyewitnesses of his magnificence.

    (Acts 1:21-23) . . .It is therefore necessary that of the men who accompanied us during all the time in which the Lord Jesus carried on his activities among us, 22 starting with his baptism by John until the day he was taken up from us, one of these men should become a witness with us of his resurrection.” 23 So they proposed two, Joseph called Barʹsab·bas, who was also called Justus, and Mat·thiʹas.

    (1 Corinthians 15:5-7) . . .and that he appeared to Ceʹphas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that he appeared to more than 500 brothers at one time, most of whom are still with us, though some have fallen asleep in death. 7 After that he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.

     

 

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      But gives grace to the humble.”
      6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time” 1 Pet 5b,6
       Or, are some of these men total imposters in more ways than one.  If anointed, they have become “Israel’s” harlots by transgressing their covenant of life in Christ. (Rev 17:1-6)  Yet, perhaps some are total “Gentile” imposters, never to have been anointed to begin with – never appointed as a priest of God. (1 Pet 2:5,9)
      And no -  if they reject their anointed brotherhood, refusing to acknowledge each member as necessary; refusing to acknowledge that this anointed body when working together would soar in speaking God’s truths, they are no longer under the covenant of life.  They have disconnected from the Head and become the “head” of the body they have chosen, the “Gentile” elders.  (Rev 11:1,2)
      “ Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.”  Col 2:16-19
      Wake up, JWs.   These men have shoved the anointed in Christ, into a back corner. (Isa 51:23)  Selfish power, not love, is their driving force in this organization.  Power over you, and especially over “Israel”. (Ezek 21:21,22,24,25) Deceit, not truth, is the driving spirit behind this organization and its leadership. (Matt 24:24) It is established on the ground, and in the realm where politics, riches, power and authority has become the bedrock of the GB’s “inspiration”. What spiritual entity offers these things? (Luke 4:5-7; Rev 9:1; 13:11) What spiritual entity would just as soon destroy Christ, and those part of his Body? (Rev 12:3,4,7) Can’t you see that this signifies a spiritual war based on deceit? (Eph 6:12;Rev 13:5-7; 16:13-16)  The holy priesthood has been absorbed into a nation and has lost its identity.  It appears that they would rather remain captive to falsehoods, than to open the door for Christ. ( Matt 25:6;Rev 3:18-20) Oh, how I wish all of you would leave darkness behind; and simply, turn to the light and truth of Jesus Christ.  (John 14:6)
      The opposition that I usually receive to comments such as this, is in defense of the GB and the organization; whereas the Temple priesthood means little to nothing. (1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) There is no defense given for Jesus Christ. (Dan 8:25) What sort of heavy spiritual blindness are JWs under that would cause them to exalt a man-made corporation, over a heavenly Temple/House built by God? (Rev 13:1,2,4; 16:13-16) The pride that JWs carry in their heart, in believing that doctrine of men and proven falsehoods can be called truth…believing that God has blessed their efforts through manpower (no inspiration by God remember? Zech 4:6)...while His house/dwelling/Temple of “living stones” lies in ruins, will ultimately bring them to their knees.  (Ezek 21:6,7; Luke 19:41-44; 2 Thess 2:9-12; Rev 18:4-8)
      You reside in the “home” of the man of lawlessness – the disgusting thing that “sits” in the Temple of God and “tramples”/rules over the anointed priesthood. How I wish you could perceive this danger.  (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4)
      “But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” 2 Cor 4:2-6
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    • By Witness
      2 Cor 5:20 – “We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.”
      If the governing leaders of the organization are Christ’s ambassadors of truth, would he allow them to misrepresent his teachings with failed and erroneous doctrine?
      The man who made the attached video portrays a simple and logical consequence, prompted by the governing body admitting they are not “inspired” by Holy Spirit. I invite you to consider his good reasoning. 
      Despite their admittance to gross errors in teaching, could we determine that they are inspired by another spirit to speak their lies, which would facilitate the need to brush away their proven falsehoods away with deceptive excuses? (Matt 7:15,16; 24:4,5,24,25; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 13:14,15; 16:13,14) Most certainly their approach to offering “nourishing spiritual food” would not be approved by Jesus, who expects those whom he sends as his ambassadors, to produce “fruit”/teachings that are built upon – light upon light - not replaced, not chucked into the garbage heap, where numerous books published by the organization are periodically ending up.   (Eccl 12:11-14)
       “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.”  John 15:16
      Since Jesus is life, light and truth, his teachings provide us with a clear path of understanding. (John 8:12; 14:6;1 John 1:7;5:20)  His ambassadors representing his truth, must do the same; which is to lead their hearers directly to Jesus and his teachings. (Ps 119:160; John 1:17; John 14:16,17; 17:17; 1 Tim 3:15)
       Anyone producing their own doctrine, their own form of “light”, are “ambassadors” of the father of the lie. (John 8:44; 2 Cor 4:1-6; 11:4,13-15)
      "The fruit of light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth" (Eph 5:9).
      Keep in mind that this is not speaking of literal fruit, but of teaching/words (Matt 12:33-37; 7:20; Heb 13:15)

      The acceptable "fruit of light" is the "truth", and is only "goodness". It consists in "all righteousness", never guiding one into wrong thoughts or behavior. 

      Such "light" results in life, eternally (John 1:1,4; 8:12; 12:46; Prov 11:30; 10:11; 3:13,18). 
      The source of this "fruit of light", is the "Tree of Life", the "Word". 
      All its wise "fruit", is "goodness". 

      The Bible reveals that Satan's mouth, also bears "fruit"/teachings (Rev 16:13; 12:15; Col 2:8; 2 Cor 11:3; 1 Tim 6:20,21; Gen 3:4,5; Rev 2:24; James 3:15).
      Just as Jesus is "the way", and his teachings are the road to life; Satan's deceptions are the road which leads to destruction (2 Thess 2:9,10; Matt 7:13; Rev 12:9).
      All of Satan's teachings/"fruit" are lies, darkness, error/sin, and they lead to death (John 8:44; Heb 2:14; James 1:15).
      To take in knowledge of such evil teachings, is to be deceived. Eve herself obtained this falsely-called knowledge (Gen 3:13; 1 Tim 6:20; 2 Cor 11:14) which resulted in her death (Rom 5:12; Gen 2:17).
      Pearl Doxsey
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    • By Patiently waiting for Truth
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Don't know if this is exactly new news. but it 'sort of' sounds interesting.
      Trump Delivers on Promise to Advance Religious Freedom Abroad 
      This week, President Trump issued a historic executive order that ensures international religious freedom will be a major piece of his legacy. The new directive gives the U.S. government more tools than ever before to advance religious freedom globally and to penalize foreign nations that perpetrate or allow religious persecution.
      Link to article at top. 
    • By Patiently waiting for Truth
      I am wondering if anyone would have a suggestion of a good / different Bible translation please ?
      I use the New World Translation and also the old King James in paper format and I'm wondering if there is any other that is straight forward and reasonable in it's correctness.
      I don't like reading the Bible online although it is convenient. It just doesn't feel right to me. 
      I do think it is good to compare translations though. Any thoughts ?
       
    • By Patiently waiting for Truth
      If the CCJW is going to be God's / Christ's chosen Organisation to bring humans through 
      Armageddon / Judgement Day
      What serious changes need to take place in it first ?
      As you know my feelings are that neither God nor Christ can use the CCJW as it is. But I am seriously trying to think on a more spiritual level so I'm trying not to be biased. By reading many comments on this forum I've noticed that even those JWs that resolve to stay firmly in the 'Org', still have some feelings of discontent. 
      So the question I'm asking is more to those JWs who are remaining 'faithful' to the CCJW and it's GB. 
      Do you see the need for big changes in the way the CCJW is run ?
      Do you really believe that God & Christ are happy with the CCJW as it is ?
      I am not deviating from my belief of a 'true Anointed' being 'raised up' in these 'last day', but as I've said before that 'true anointed' could well be within the CCJW.
      I'm keeping my mind 'open' to all manner of thoughts, whilst trying to, hopefully with God's guidance, find truth. 
      However, I am of the opinion that 'new light' via the GB, will not provide the answers or right direction that is needed. But that is just my personal opinion, and I may be proven wrong................
    • By Patiently waiting for Truth
      ACTS 2 V 16 , 17  & 18.
       On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel: 17  ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  18  and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy
      Jerusalem had the end of it's 'last days' in 70 C. E. But prior to that a 'miracle' happened.  Acts 2 v 1 through 11.
       Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2  Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3  And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4  and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.5  At that time devout Jews from every nation under heaven were staying in Jerusalem. 6  So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7  Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8  How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? 9  Parʹthi·ans, Medes,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, 10  Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  11  Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God.
      We are again in 'the last days', so why would you be surprised if God should pour out some of HIS SPIRIT on a true Anointed group of humans. 
      Where is your faith ? Do you no longer believe in God's power ? Do you no longer believe that God can do 'miracles' ?
      Your GB have admitted to NOT BEING INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT.
      Yet here we have in scripture, God's promise that HE WILL POUR OUT SOME OF HIS SPIRIT in the 'last days'. 
      Are we in those LAST DAYS or not ? Do you expect God to act or not ? Or are you just physical men ? 
      Have you lost your 'spiritual eyes' ? Did you in fact even have 'spiritual eyes' ? Are you relying on men and not on God through Christ ? 
       
    • By Patiently waiting for Truth
      What should we believe and what should we question ? What should we just accept and what should we research ? 
      How deep should we dig in order to find truth ? 
      How do we really know what TRUTH is ?
      Yes I'm asking serious questions and trying to dig very deeply
      THE BIBLE CANON.
      Now here is a lovely place to start digging. And here is a lovely place to ask ourselves, Should we just accept the Bible Canon as it is ?
      “Canon” is a Greek word meaning “rule” or “measuring stick.” So the Bible canon is the 'accepted' 66 writings that the Bible holds.
      Should we accept this canon or question it ? Do you know that many 'Bible scholars' did not and do not agree on the Bible canon ?
      140 C. E.  Marcion rejected the Old Testament, along with any writings that might reinforce views other than his own. He developed a list of books he considered acceptable: portions of the Gospel of Luke, ten of Paul’s letters, plus a letter purportedly from Paul to the Alexandrians. This list is known as the Marcion Canon.    After Marcion and Montanus, lists of New Testament books begin to appear. One of the first was The Muratorian Fragment. It was discovered among the Vatican’s sacred documents by historian Ludovico Antonio Muratori in 1740 and dates to about A.D. 190. The fragment is damaged. The portion we possess begins with “the third book of the Gospel is that according to Luke.” We assume the first and second Gospels to be Matthew and Mark. The fragment lists John, Acts, all of Paul’s letters, James, 1-2 John, Jude and the Revelation of John. It also includes the Revelation of Peter, the Wisdom of Solomon and (“to be used in private, but not public worship”) the Shepherd of Hermas.   In 367, Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, wrote an Easter letter that contained all twenty-seven books of our present New Testament. In 393 the Synod of Hippo affirmed our current New Testament, and in 397 the Council of Carthage published the same list.   But :-   In the first and second centuries after Christ, many, many writings and epistles were circulating among the Christians. Some of the churches were using books and letters in their services that were definitely spurious. Gradually the need to have a definite list of the inspired Scriptures became apparent. Heretical movements were rising, each one choosing its own selected Scriptures, including such documents as the Gospel of Thomas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, and the Epistle of Barnabas.   The Council of Carthage established the orthodox New Testament canon in 397 AD; it was upheld at the Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  in 1545. By the way, Protestants and Catholics are in agreement with their use of the same New Testament. However, were any of those men true servants of God through Christ ?  Were they guided by God / Holy Spirit ? The scriptures talk about men entering into the 'congregation' / organisation that would mislead many and not act is a truthful way.     A small point but of interest, is in Paul's Letter to the Colossians Ch 4 v 16  "And when this letter has been read among you, arrange for it also to be read in the congregation of the La·o·di·ceʹans and for you also to read the one from La·o·di·ceʹa. "   Here we read that Paul mentions his letter to the congregation of Laodicea, and a little bit of research will find this letter.  To the Laodiceans   1 Paul, an apostle not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, to the brethren who are of Laodicea. 2 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.   20 And cause [this letter] to be read to the Colossians and that of the Colossians to you.   There is not much in the letter to Laodicea but, if the translation I've found is correct then it is one of Paul's letters. And it was important enough to Paul to mention in both letters Colossians and Laodiceans to read both to both congregations.   So, why is it not in the Bible canon ?    At this point i must thank @JW Insider for his work and for his giving me much information concerning other writings of 'Scripture' and history of Bible times. Thank you.    I was not aware, A, that so many other 'writings of scripture' had been written, B, that so many still exist and are available to read online.    But this poses a question. If we believe that God, through Holy Spirit, has kept 'His written word' 'alive' and available for all to read, then who has kept all those other 'writings of scripture' available for all to read ? and why ?   How much should we investigate and how much should we just accept ?    The Bible Canon is just a starting point. We could follow up with, Do we accept the translation we have or should we try to compare it to the original Hebrew and Greek scriptures ?  How close to the original Hebrew and Greek can we get ? What does God and Christ expect of us ? Do they expect us to dig deeper than just reading the translation of the Bible that we have ?   
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      Perhaps the KIT could be the Society's next translation project !
      .... Years ago, on the front page of the Wall Street Journal, below the fold, on the right hand side (if memory serves), was a 2"x2" or so picture of Star Trek - The Next Generation's Security Officer Worf, and the article announcing the publication the KLV Klingon Language Bible.
      I have forgotten many of the details if I ever knew them, as I was crying from laughter so much it was hard to see.
      I do remember from the article that there were particular difficulties in doing a good job of translating, as the Klingon language is very abrupt, and there is no word for the concept of "mercy"..
      I understand that the KLV Translation is somewhat like our "Silver Sword", in that it is simplified and is more like a commentary, but I think I will wait until someone puts out a Klingon Interlinear Translation of the Bible (KIT).
      I guarantee NOBODY will fall asleep at the Klingon speaking Kingdom Halls, as the speakers are VERY loud, and they have a tendency to yell and spit at the same time.
      You may want to sit at least three rows back.
       
    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?
      It seems clear to me that Jehovah allows civil governments to run their own affairs as they see fit, and even has no objection to them judging and executing wrongdoers ... and even commands us to be in subjection to these governments, as even the very worst of them are better than anarchy.
      People generally misinterpret the scripture that say " Thou shalt not kill." where the scripture more actually says "Thou shalt not murder".
      There is a very real difference.  A sovereign government, executing a wrongdoer is implementing the political will of that government ... whether it be a government the size of a continent .. or an extended family sized tribe of Jewish sheepherders living way out in the middle of nowhere, living in tents, governed by a patriarch.
      I have not been able to find in the Bible where actual warfare, committed by any sovereign group, is considered to be murder ... either by the perpetrators of the war, or the defenders of the war against them, except in the case of "war crimes" against non combatants and other cases.
      Did you know it is legal to drop napalm on civilians in war, from an aircraft ... but not from a flame thrower from a soldier on the ground?
      ....but I digress.
      Even people that warred against the Jews  were not considered murderers..... they were considered warriors.
      I am working on getting this all straight in my mind now ... as there seems to be a profound truth buried in this stream of thought, somewhere, but I cannot get it to crystallize, or perhaps it is approaching 3AM, and I am too tired to think about it.
      But whatever it is that is ... what profound basic principle that I am missing ...is based on having a correct answer  as to WHY ... WHY does God NOT consider warfare to be murder.
      I suspect when I figure it out, it will be like driving down a road in a southerly direction, thinking you are going North ... and then you see that landmark or sign that indicates you are really going South ... and that feeling you get when your whole frame of reference rotates in your head, like the world just rotated 180 degrees.
      It's like deja vu, and geography, combined.
      Perhaps my premise is faulty, but I don't think so.
      Please feel free to destroy my premise, or my stream of thought, or my conclusions.
      I try to be "loyal" to whatever is true, and not an agenda of defending an agenda.
      Knowing "WHY?" things are the way they are, is the key to good philosophy.
      Bad philosophy will waste our lives, which are pitifully short.
       
       
       
       

    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      WHY .... doesn't Jehovah God consider warfare ... murder?
      It seems clear to me that Jehovah allows civil governments to run their own affairs as they see fit, and even has no objection to them judging and executing wrongdoers ... and even commands us to be in subjection to these governments, as even the very worst of them are better than anarchy.
      People generally misinterpret the scripture that say " Thou shalt not kill." where the scripture more actually says "Thou shalt not murder".
      There is a very real difference.  A sovereign government, executing a wrongdoer is implementing the political will of that government ... whether it be a government the size of a continent .. or an extended family sized tribe of Jewish sheepherders living way out in the middle of nowhere, living in tents, governed by a patriarch.
      I have not been able to find in the Bible where actual warfare, committed by any sovereign group, is considered to be murder ... either by the perpetrators of the war, or the defenders of the war against them, except in the case of "war crimes" against non combatants and other cases.
      Did you know it is legal to drop napalm on civilians in war, from an aircraft ... but not from a flame thrower from a soldier on the ground?
      ....but I digress.
      Even people that warred against the Jews  were not considered murderers..... they were considered warriors.
      I am working on getting this all straight in my mind now ... as there seems to be a profound truth buried in this stream of thought, somewhere, but I cannot get it to crystallize, or perhaps it is approaching 3AM, and I am too tired to think about it.
      But whatever it is that is ... what profound basic principle that I am missing ...is based on having a correct answer  as to WHY ... WHY does God NOT consider warfare to be murder.
      I suspect when I figure it out, it will be like driving down a road in a southerly direction, thinking you are going North ... and then you see that landmark or sign that indicates you are really going South ... and that feeling you get when your whole frame of reference rotates in your head, like the world just rotated 180 degrees.
      It's like deja vu, and geography, combined.
      Perhaps my premise is faulty, but I don't think so.
      Please feel free to destroy my premise, or my stream of thought, or my conclusions.
      I try to be "loyal" to whatever is true, and not an agenda of defending an agenda.
      Knowing "WHY?" things are the way they are, is the key to good philosophy.
      Bad philosophy will waste our lives, which are pitifully short.
       
       
       
       
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    • By Patiently waiting for Truth
      It is true that I no longer go door to door teaching others about God or about His Kingdom. However i do a bit of what might be classes as 'witnessing' on Facebook and at other opportunities.  So I found this quote online and I thought, that it is probably better than I could write it myself.  Quote : -
       
      Anguish of Nations not knowing the way....Out ? Out of What?
      “Anguish of nations, not knowing the way out . . . Men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.” (Luke 21:25, 26) Crime, violence, drug addiction, family breakups, economic instability, unemployment—the list is long and growing. One prominent scientist wrote: “We will eat fear, sleep fear, live in fear and die in fear.”
      “In the last days critical times hard to deal with.” (2 Timothy 3:1) The apostle Paul spoke of people “having come to be past all moral sense.” (Ephesians 4:19) He elaborated, however, on the moral breakdown he foretold for “the last days.” It sounds like today’s newscasts: “Know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5.
      “In the last days there will come ridiculers.” (2 Peter 3:3) Newspapers, newscasts, magazines, books, and movies scornfully dismiss the Bible and replace it with their own freethinking propaganda, saying, as Peter foretold: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.”—2 Peter 3:4. " : End of quote.
      But this quote was written a decade ago. TEN years ago. And things are much worse now. 
      I think I've mentioned earlier that I'm into reading all the 'word news' but i did get a topic come up on my FB, page from the Telegraph, about 'some big climate change meeting of top knobs', so I just tried to give it some balance from God's viewpoint.  I will of course get a blasting from folks on FB but i can handle that.  
      It helped me also to gain a bit of balance. But then it also creates so many questions. God needs a true, faithful and clean collection of humans for when He decides to 'sort out the problems' down here on Earth. There is indeed much work to be done. Only time will tell how it all plays out, and who HE uses. 
       
       
    • By The Librarian
      Jehovah in the Bible, the God of Israel who 
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , a spirit realm outside the physical heavens and is not omnipresent or "residing" in a human's heart.
      "Jehovah" at Exodus 6:3(1611 King James Version)
      Jehovah /dʒɨˈhoʊvə/ is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, a vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible, which has also been transcribed as "Yehowah" or "Yahweh". יְהֹוָה appears 6,518 times in the traditional Masoretic Text, in addition to 305 instances of יֱהֹוִה (Jehovih).The earliest available Latin text to use a vocalization similar to Jehovah dates from the 13th century. 
      Relationship of Jehovah with the rest of the Universe
      Think of Jehovah as the Architect of the Universe and Jesus Christ as his "Master Builder" (Proverbs chapter 😎 through whom everything else was created. His first Creation was Jesus Christ himself Billions of years ago before the physical universe ever existed.

      Michael the Archangel (later called Jesus Christ) used God's Holy Spirit in order to create our Universe and later perform miracles related in the Gospels. All energy in the Universe sources with Jehovah God's Holy Spirit and later the exalted and enthroned Jesus Christ enthroned as King would be given "Life within himself" thereby also being given immortality and having his own spirit. (source needed) See also
      Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Jehovah's Witnesses Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  / Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
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    • By Srecko Sostar
      Dear reader.
      You have often come across terms, God's holy spirit and God's love.
      You have also often prayed for the favor of God, among other things asking that God's holy spirit help you, guide you, to have a spirit. Some Bible passages say that God gives something to people.
      We find expressions that say how God gives:
      - his spirit without measure - John 3:34.
      - a certain measure of faith - Rom 12: 3
      - a measure of grace - Eph. 4: 7
      - measure of authority - 2 Cor. 10:13
      - a double measure of blessing - Isaiah 61: 7
      - double measure of inheritance - Deut 21:17
      - double measure for bad deeds - Rev. 18: 6
      Also how a man seeks or receives from another man:
      - double measure of spirit - 2 Cr. 2: 9
      - double honor - 1 Tim. 5:17
       
      There are also allegations relating to love. How love is given or received and under what circumstances:
      And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him. ”- John 14:21
      For God loved the world, - John 3:16
      I love those who love me - Prov 8:17
      Your love, O LORD, reaches to the heavens - Psalm 36: 5 -7
      I have loved you with everlasting love; - Jer 31: 3
       
      From these statements we can see that love also works under certain circumstances. Sometimes it's eternal, going to heaven. Sometimes it is conditioned because he says: I will love you if you love me", "if you obey, listen me".
      Based on the paragraphs that speak of giving / receiving a spirit, I could conclude that God gives the holy spirit to those who seek it, and those whose hearts are pure receive that spirit from God. When GB claims that they make mistakes in word and deed because they are not perfect and because they are not "spirit-inspired," then that is just an excuse. When they claim that they are not "inspired by the spirit of God," that would mean that God does not give his spirit to anyone, not even to them. So, if they, as "God's elected," "anointed," cannot be "inspired," then they are actually sending the message that no one else can be "inspired." And then such a claim has the consequence, meaning, that God and his spirit are not able to be active. God works through his spirit, doesn't he? Well, he created the universe with his spirit ?! He wrote the Bible with his spirit ?! He uttered prophecies with his spirit ?! And today the spirit is unable to act on the few people sitting in Warwick?
      Does God lie when he says, "... for God gives the Spirit without limit. - John. 3:34
      Is the problem in the spirit of God? Or is it a problem in humans? :))
       
       




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