RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.

[Kosonen]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I write from memory but as far as I remember this refers to the period after Jesus started ruling in heaven during the first world war. Mal 3 refers to the cleansing which took place in this time..

 

I know that the WT org teaches that. But that is not true. Jesus did not begin to rule 1914 and Satan was not thrown down that year. Russell had his predictions about 1914. The end of Satan's system. But he was wrong. Then later Rutherford had to invent something because he still loved Russell's chronology so the following happened: 

-At the 1922 Cedar Point convention Rutherford began teaching that Christ's reign had begun in 1914,[121] and not 1878 as Russell had taught.[122] Rutherford expanded on this view in the March 1, 1925 issue of The Watch Tower in the article "Birth of The Nation", which he later acknowledged "caused a real stir or shake-up within the ranks."[88] In 1927 he moved the date of the resurrection of the "sleeping saints" (all Christians who had died since Jesus' time) from 1878 to 1918[123][124] and as early as 1930 began to dismiss the year 1874 as the date for the invisible presence of Christ in favor of the year 1914.[125][126]   - Wikipedia

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Franklin_Rutherford

There are several reasons why 1914 can not be a real year of significance in the scriptural perspective.

1. That generation has already disapeared. Overlaping generation doctrine is just nonsense.

2. Satan was to have only a short time left and would be raging until the end. That does not fit 1914 because a long time has already elapsed. 

And instead of life going worse, life has got better almost everywhere on earth since 1914. Antibiotics have saved so many lives since then. And life has got much more cofortable since then and for very many people. And Jehovah's witnesses have enjoyed really good times in the Western world. And have got law protection to be able to freely preach and built kingdom halls. 

So it can not be that Satan was cast down to earth around 1914. The short period Satan gets after he is thrown down to earth is about 3 and half years. That is what all the scriptures about 1260, 1290 and 1335 days are about. Or 42 months and time, times and half a time are about.

Take a look what Daniel wrote about those periods and you will see that that period belong to the ultimate end and not to 1914. Only somebody who is dishonest or very unintelligent would rather put that period back to 1914 rather than to the ultimate end of this system of things after a thorough study.

I don't think they are so stupid at the writing commite or at the GB. Instead they are dishonest and refuse to admit their awful error. Plus all the brothers and sister they have disfellowshiped who has tried to expose 1914-doctrine as an error.

3. So the Great War that now is called the First World War was in fact just an other war. And surely Satan wanted that the so called First World War would be falsely tied to prophecies in the Bible. Who knows if thanks to Russell's chronology Satan organized this war so that the WT organization would be fooled all the way until now more than 100 years.

Satan surely saw that within the WT organization there are truly anointed by God persons, so it would be perfect for him to fool them all with this 1914 deception. And especially delightful it would be for Satan to look at Jehovah's witnesses who claim they are in the truth when they are in the deception. Just delightful for Satan so he can day and night accuse Jehovah's witnesses before Jehovah.

 

[Kosonen]

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

The king of the fortresses after this in Daniel 11  then then stands up (Russia) and the king of the south pushes against him (cold war era).  The last part of verse 40 and 41 - 44 will soon go into fulfillment.   

 

That about Russia can not be true neither with arguments presented in the WT literature. Because in Daniel 11 there is a chronological order of events. The WT rightly puts Daniel 11:31 in to the future. So the following scriptures should also be in the future. Look at this statement for example: 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999323#h=22:0-28:761

"16 Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future."

We see that the WT teaches that "the disgusting thing" will be standing in a holy place in the future. But in the same time they want to say that the "disgusting thing" has already been standing on the holy place. Can they not decide how they want to have it? Apparently not, because they feel they have to in some way tie all prophecies as close down to 1914 as possible. 

And the same time they understand that "the disgusting thing standing on the holy place" should follow the pattern of the events in the first century, as stated here:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001193#h=11:0-12:484

 "Additional prophecies of a disgusting thing. It should be noted, however, that Daniel 11:31-35 and 12:9, 11 connect a ‘disgusting thing causing desolation’ with “the time of the end.” It is reasonable that the development of this latter expression of ‘the disgusting thing causing desolation’ in the time of the end should follow the general pattern of that in the first century C.E., though not being restricted to the land of Israel."

And then WT literature explains :

18 Immediately after coming to power, Hitler launched a vicious attack against “the holy covenant,” represented by the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ. (Matthew 25:40) In this he acted “effectively” against these loyal Christians, cruelly persecuting many of them. Hitler enjoyed economic and diplomatic successes, acting “effectively” in those fields also. In a few years, he made Germany a power to be reckoned with on the world scene.

"20 Hitler soon went to war, as the angel had correctly foretold: “There will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.” (Daniel 11:31a) The “arms” were the military forces that the king of the north used in order to fight the king of the south in World War II. On September 1, 1939, Nazi “arms” invaded Poland. Two days later, Britain and France declared war on Germany in order to help Poland. Thus began World War II. Poland collapsed quickly, and soon thereafter, German forces occupied Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France. “At the end of 1941,” says The World Book Encyclopedia, “Nazi Germany dominated the continent.”" 

22 “They [Nazi arms] will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature,” said the angel. In ancient Judah the sanctuary was part of the temple in Jerusalem. However, when the Jews rejected Jesus, Jehovah rejected them and their temple. (Matthew 23:37–24:2) Since the first century C.E., Jehovah’s temple has actually been a spiritual one, with its holy of holies in the heavens and with a spiritual courtyard on earth, in which the anointed brothers of Jesus, the High Priest, serve. From the 1930’s onward, the “great crowd” have worshiped in association with the anointed remnant and are therefore said to serve ‘in God’s temple.’ (Revelation 7:9, 15; 11:1, 2; Hebrews 9:11, 12,24) In lands under his control, the king of the north profaned the earthly courtyard of the temple by relentlessly persecuting the anointed remnant and their companions. So severe was the persecution that “the constant feature”—the public sacrifice of praise to Jehovah’s name—was removed. (Hebrews 13:15) Despite horrible suffering, however, faithful anointed Christians together with the “other sheep” kept on preaching during World War II.—John 10:16.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101999035#h=15 (The obove quote)

But this is so wrong, Germany did not cause the profanation of the "sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature" in  USA. And the scripture is talking about arms not against nations like Poland but arms against the sanctuary, the fortress associated with the sanctuary and the constant feature or sacrifice.

Shortly, the WT should rewrite all the explanations to prophecies they have applied to the last 100+ years. And come up with the true explanations. 

Even most churches are wise enough to understand that the 1260 etc days belong to the final years before Christ Jesus' return. How stupid can the WT leadership really be?

[Arauna]

6 hours ago, Kosonen said:

5 hours ago, Arauna said:

or can you provide proof to the contrar

. I am sure that period did not occure during the Second world war as the WT explains. 

You please provide evidence to the contrary! 

[Arauna]

2 hours ago, Kosonen said:

his predictions about 1914. The end of Satan's system. But he was wrong.

Oh dear - So the events of 1914 and the history just gets thrown out by an expert who is not truly an expert.  Sorry....  I am not arguing about this.   I know the history too well to be impressed by your aberrations.

What you guys do not realize is that the image of the beast has already started ruling behind the scenes and the devastation will soon be upon us when the UN (the image of the beast) openly does what it wants. 

Will  all the virgins have their lamps filled with Jehovah's spirit oil or will they have their own oil which does not burn and give light to them.......  and death dealing to those who listen to them.  (5 virgins are the anointed who were not ready) and war mongering because they cannot have the cake and devour it?

Thanks - but no thanks.....  I do not agree with you...  I think a generation can be 120 years.   The last generation in Noahs day was 120 years. ... and Jehovah compares the flood to the last days of this system..... 

Soon we will see the true face of Satan when his people openly start ruling the world.  Everything is already in place while 5 virgins are sleeping....

 

 

[Anna]

11 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

As a victim of child abuse myself

What justice did you get?

[Kosonen]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

You please provide evidence to the contrary! 

Hi dear sister Arauna, 

I understand that the information I provided overwhelmed you. At the meetings during 2 decades there would not be as much new light as I just posted.

And I see that you as all other witnesses feel very unsure about how to understand, let alone explain all the scriptures about 1260, 1290, 1335 days and 42 months and time, times and half a time.

I think you would appreciate what I wrote today if you first really tried to fully comprehend the WT literatures explanations. I know you will come into a dead end because those explanations do nor add up. But give it a serious try and pray Jeahovah to make you understand. And see if you will be able to understand. 

But a simple alternative  I will present here:

Daniel 12:6 “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?”.........“It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.* As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”

11  “And from the time that the constant feature*+has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place,+ there will be 1,290 days.12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation*and who arrives at the 1,335 days!

Daniel 11:31  And arms* will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary,+ the fortress, and remove the constant feature.*+“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.+

Daniel 7:25  He will speak words against the Most High,+ and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.*+ 26  But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely.+27  “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One.+ Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,+ and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’28  “This is the end of the matter. 

So Aruna where do you see the 1260, 1290, 1335 days/time, times and half a time are placed in these scriptures? Is it not right before Christ's millenial rule?

 

[Anna]

I was looking for a topic to post this on as I don't really want to make this into a new topic.

Anyway, just came across this article in the 2005 WT which states that;..... "rape is also a major crime with severe penalties. The victim has every right to report the matter to the police. In this way the proper authorities can punish the offender. And if the victim is a minor, the parents may want to initiate these actions".

Just wondering why the confusion about whether to or not to report to the authorities, especially with one of the cases @JOHN BUTLER described (in a post I can't find). He said something went down in his congregation and it wasn't handled right as the authorities weren't informed.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005563?q=rape+report&p=par#h=14

(This was 10 years before the Australian Commission).

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, Anna said:

Anyway, just came across this article in the 2005 WT which states that;..... "rape is also a major crime with severe penalties. The victim has every right to report the matter to the police. In this way the proper authorities can punish the offender. And if the victim is a minor, the parents may want to initiate these actions".

WT has been pretty clear on the requirement to comply with reporting regulations in these matters for a number of years. (1988 is the earliest reference I could find, relating to the situation in Canada). Where there is legal clarity, the obligation is clearly ststed. Where there is legal inconsistency, the branch office will direct. 

Individual elders confuse matters by not following direction, the whole matter is complicated further by allegations made by victims regarding mishandling. Reporting is still not generally mandatory in Britain although the JW policy stipulates that victims and their families are clearly informed of their right to unrestricted reporting. The whole matter is surrounded by fear which impedes proper care of the victims. 

The IICSA had it's preliminary hearing on child protection in religious organisations including Jehovah's Witnesses yesterday (23/07/2019).

An organisation called Ex-JW Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children is represented there with Jehovah's Witnesses's representatives providing a response. Hopefully, further legal clarity will ensue. https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/12997/view/preliminary-hearing-transcript-23-july-2019-.pdf

[Evacuated]

28 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Ex-JW Advocates Opposing Crimes Against Children

By the way, Lloyd Evans figures highly in the representation with this group. Some here may have more than a passing acquaintance with this individual.