Predestination ? Life planned before birth ? Chosen before birth ?

[JOHN BUTLER]

I don't believe in life being predestined, preplanned, but some scriptures seem to show otherwise. Or is interpretation wrong ?

Pauls says at Ephesians 1  ³  Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,b⁴  as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love. ⁵  For he foreordained us to be adopted as his own sons through Jesus Christ, according to his good pleasure and will, ... 

 Foreordained = (of God or fate) appoint or decree (something) beforehand. 

Now is this correct translation of the scripture or not ? Did God know Adam would sin ? Did God have plans for a 'heavenly class ' 144,000 anyway ?

My brain can only take in so much at once and although i would have read this a hundred times or more I've only just began to think on this particular scripture. But it made me think on another scripture. 

Romans 9 v 10 through 13. 

Not only then but also when Re·bekʹah conceived twins from the one man, Isaac our forefather; ¹¹  for when they had not yet been born and had not practiced anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not on works, but on the One who calls,¹²  it was said to her: “The older will be the slave of the younger.” ¹³  Just as it is written: “I loved Jacob, but Eʹsau I hated.”

( As a note here I could not find this scripture by searching in JW Org but found it immediately by putting it as a question into google. Google showed BibleHub and there it is. )

God chose Jacob before Jacob was even born. Why ? How ? Predestination ? Jacob's life pre-planned by God ? 

There are probably more examples but i think these two serve the purpose. Does God have plans for all of us or only a chosen few ? 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

Things in Life are weird sometimes :))

[Kosonen]

@JOHN BUTLER  could be that God sees the genetics and the circumstances a person is born to and can then largely see the path of a person. 

[Srecko Sostar]

For many people who was born in poor countries, it could be said how their life is "predestined", or they are predetermined to stay poor and illiterate because parents can't afford to pay a school for their children. And for major of such population that is present and future. 

In some other cases we can talk about ones childhood. A circumstances in that period of life can be also very significant about life of such in older ages. With genetic you mentioned, too.

Are we all some experiment of gods? :)) It could be. JW and some other when talking about book of Genesis and Bible at all, say how God put The Tree in Garden to see will human obey Him or not, will they obey because of love too. So, this sort of explanation smell much to me, on some sort of experiment. Such idea is continued, same stuff is repeated with Abraham or Job, Jesus too. All of them, and many more was put in position "to prove" something about God.

Examples with Adam and Job, JW using as explanation for Crucial Questions of Life and Death. They say how God's Sovereignty and Honor depends on how would, will people answer to that challenge. Of, course, it is interesting how Adam, Job and Jesus answered about it,and make A Point, but still this seems it is not enough for God to make conclusion on this stuff and stop all injustice, misery and suffer for millions (people) or innocent children for centuries until today.     

Things are not, usually, black/white, but, perhaps JW explanation is not good enough, it is not valid, or interpretations on Bible text is terribly wrong, or bible description of past is poor, or all is in vain, or .... or i am predestined to talking stupidity    :))))))    

[JOHN BUTLER]

I think the point is to know that Humans are not the important issue here.  

Was God in fact being tested by rebellious Angels ?  God could easily have 'removed' Adam and Eve. BUT that would not have satisfied the Angels questions. 

God not only had to do what was right, but in the eyes of the Angels, God had to be seen to be doing what was right. 

God was being challenged by an at least one Angel. So God had to answer that challenge. 

Personally I would have wiped out the wicked Angels and Adam And Eve, then started over, but that is just me . If I were God my thinking would be that i didn't have to prove anything to anyone. 

However. thousands of years of suffering by humans has existed, because God has to prove His point to the Devil and the demons (wicked angels). Why ? So that the challenge by an Angel will not happen again.

We are told, and it is of course true, that God's thoughts are much higher than our thoughts. However God created us with the intelligence to question everything. 

So, it seems God gives us the opportunity to help Him to answer the challenge from the Devil. 

However it also seems that God, in some cases, preplans a person's life, to serve God's purpose. ( As in original post ).

Mary was chosen to give birth to Jesus. And who was it was chosen ? to give birth to John the Baptiser.  

In a similar way, I suppose the Anointed are chosen, either by God or by Jesus christ. 

And again,  I presume, God or Jesus Christ, choses to whom Holy Spirit will be given to understand scripture. 

In my opinion the two above lines of writing concern the same people. The Anointed are chosen and Holy Spirit is given to them to understand scripture. 

Then through the Anointed, (the spiritual Jew that the ten men cling on to ), people can prove their faith in God, and in so doing prove the Devil is wrong. 

One question is, were the Anointed pre-chosen from before they were born, just as Jacob was chosen ?

The Apostle Paul seems to say that they were.  

Question number Two is rather more important to us though. How do we truly know who the Anointed really are ? 

[Kosonen]

@JOHN BUTLER The anointed should try to be faithful and discreet slaves and give spiritual food that is right for the time.

So try to look for that. Such anointed will help you through the end times.