WATCHTOWER'S SHAMELESS FACADE CALLED TRUTH

[Witness]

Dear JWs,

Can an earthly organization, with its extended assets in buildings, monetary investments and its pitfalls;  its legal branch, “governmental” branch, production branch, and all branches throughout the world, be the source of salvation for mankind?  Acts 4:12; 17:24,25   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4%3A12%3B+17%3A24%2C25&version=NIV

Would our true source of spiritual salvation have any partnership in worldly interests?  Matt 4:8-10; 6:19-21; Col 3:2,5   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+4%3A8-10%3B+6%3A19-21%3B+Col+3%3A2%2C5&version=NIV

Can Jesus’ pure teachings remain untainted under the influence of an institutional structure formulated by men? 1 Tim 4:16; 2 Tim 4:3; 2 Pet 2:1-3   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Tim+4%3A16%3B+2+Tim+4%3A3%3B+2+Pet+2%3A1-3&version=NIV

Where does wickedness thrive?  1 John 5:19; Matt 24:10-12; 2 Thess 2:9-12  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+5%3A19%3B+Matt+24%3A10-12%3B+2+Thess+2%3A9-12&version=NIV

JWs, why do you believe God would bless an entity identical to other organizations in the world?  Rom 12:2; 1 Cor 1:20   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+12%3A2%3B+1+Cor+1%3A20&version=NIV

ORGANIZATION:  “an administrative and functional structure (such as a business or a political party)

the personnel of such a structure

characterized by COMPLETE CONFORMITY TO THE STANDARDS AND REQUIREMENTS OF AN ORGANIZATION”

 Aren’t Christ’s standards and teachings enough, without polluting them with men’s desire to “organize”, twist and corrupt, what God has made pure?  James 3:15,16; Phil 3:19  No organization in this world can be considered pure and unblemished, since Satan dabbles in all aspects of this world.  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+3%3A15%2C16%3B+Phil+3%3A19++&version=NIV

The light of Christ and his teachings cannot, and do not abide with the darkness of the world.  John 8:12; James 1:27   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A12%3B+James+1%3A27&version=NIV

By allowing an organization to motivate you and rule over you with its “organizational” standards, you allow Satan to corrupt the pure Word of God with the teachings of men, who are thieves and wolves in sheep’s clothing. Matt 7:15; John 10:9,10   You no longer believe solely in the Word of God, but a crooked version that robs you of truth, and of the glory of Christ.   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt+7%3A15%3B+John+10%3A9%2C10+++&version=NIV

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” 2 Cor 4:4

Please, do not think that the “preaching work” is a sign of success; that somehow God has transgressed His own decrees of purity and blessed the Watchtower, who’s doctrines change continually to cover over previous lies.   An earthly organization formulated by men can never match the requirements of purity set by God.  It can never be considered “Zion” as you are taught. To apply salvation to something created by man, is idolatry. Rom 1:25  But, there are people that God has chosen, who by submitting their hearts to be refined by Christ and his teachings, can reach that purity. 1 Pet 2:5,9,10; Mal 3:2,3; Rev 3:18 They are part of the true heavenly Zion, and God is preparing them to teach and serve all His children, in the Kingdom to come.  Rom 8:19-21    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom+1%3A25%3B+1+Pet+2%3A5%2C9%2C10%3B+Mal+3%3A2%2C3%3B+Rev+3%3A18+&version=NIV

Phil 2:14-16; 1:9-11; 2 Cor 11:2; Heb 12:22; Rev 14:1; 21:2; 14:5    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Phil+2%3A14-16%3B+1%3A9-11%3B+2+Cor+11%3A2%3B+Heb+12%3A22%3B+Rev+14%3A1%3B+21%3A2%3B+14%3A5&version=NIV

Jesus tells us how God expects us to worship Him.

John 4:1-54

You can listen here:  https://www.biblegateway.com/audio/suchet/nivuk/John.4

Pearl Dosxey "The Sign of the End"  4 womaninthewilderness . blogspot

[JOHN BUTLER]

Zechariah 8 v 23 English Standard Version Thus says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men from the nations of every tongue shall take hold of the robe of a Jew, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’” Berean Study Bible This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from all nations and languages will tightly grasp the robe of a Jewish man, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew,  saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”   In the time of Jesus himself, here on this Earth, Jesus started an 'organisation', a group of twelve Apostles to lead the people.    In that first century those Apostles set up congregations. The proof is in God's word. Paul's writings to those different congregations. The offer from God changed from being only to the Jews, to being open to all nations.    I know that the GB and the JW org are wrong at this moment in time, but i think you are wrong to say there is no need for an earthly organisation to spread God's word earthwide.

[Shiwiii]

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I know that the GB and the JW org are wrong at this moment in time, but i think you are wrong to say there is no need for an earthly organisation to spread God's word earthwide. 

I don't think there has been a time when the gb nor the wt were ever right, but that is just my opinion based on the Bible itself. 

 

I also do not believe there has to be any organization here on Earth. What you said is true, the apostles did set up churches and taught them the basis of morals based on the Bible, but they did not have an "organization". There was not a group of men running the show, it was God running the show. Now I'm sure some one is going to quote Acts, Romans or Galatians, but one must read those carefully. It is not some gb making a decision, but rather the apostles condemning their practices that were made by men. 

[Witness]

13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

In the time of Jesus himself, here on this Earth, Jesus started an 'organisation', a group of twelve Apostles to lead the people. 

OK, John.  This is long, but I hope you give it a try.  

It was hard for me once leaving the Watchtower; thinking I had to “go” somewhere, because the Watchtower has ingrained this concept into their members.

Here’s are  examples:

w06 2/15 pp. 26-30   If I find myself in a situation where changes seem hard to accept, I reflect on Peter’s words to Jesus: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.’ Then I ask myself, ‘Where shall I go away to—out there into the darkness of the world?’ This helps me to hold firmly to God’s organization.”—John 6:68.

w88 3/15 pp. 15-20    Furthermore, suppose a person was to separate himself from Jehovah’s people. Where could he go? Is he not faced with the same issue that confronted Jesus’ apostles when he asked them if they also wanted to leave him? The apostle Peter rightly replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) There is nowhere else to go but to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion, or into the clutches of Satan’s political “wild beast.” (Revelation 13:1; 18:1-5) Largely, disloyal ones who have left Jehovah’s visible organization have made common cause with those in God-dishonoring “Babylon the Great.”

 Simon Peter answered, “Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life. ⁶⁹ We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”  John 6:68,69

Can you see how Christ’s words have been twisted by the WT, making people believe that an organization is the way of salvation, simply because they “preach” Christ?  We both know that the organization cannot provide salvation.

There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12

The Watchtower, on rare occasions, has supported this scripture by saying:

Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities

"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 

And then, hypocritically turn around to say:

Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 

"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."  

It seems pretty clear to me that I cannot give my allegiance to men’s “organized” way of doing things.  I must rely completely on my faith in Christ and the Father. 

The man who finally succumbed to the ideals of “organization” first stated:

Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day."   CT Russell Watchtower1895/9/15

In the Watchtower men have become “kings”, ruling over others. (1 Sam 8:6) However, we have our King, Jesus Christ.  As I have said, “leaders” within Christ’s anointed Body, guide people to the King of Kings, Lord of Lords with words spoken in truth, but they do not reign them in through the stipulations driving an organization.   Once earthly organization is introduced, a hierarchy of power is born, which is derived from the realm of Satan. (1 Sam 8:10-18)

God said,

Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call to him while he is near.
⁷ Let the wicked one abandon his way
and the sinful one his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord,
so he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will freely forgive.

⁸ “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
and your ways are not my ways.”
This is the Lord’s declaration.
⁹ “For as heaven is higher than earth,
so my ways are higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.  Isa 55:6-9

Did He say seek an organization?  Are man’s ideals the same as God’s ideals?

We are to take in “new wine” that Jesus has offered us; new understanding about the new Temple of God built on the anointed ones.  He also said that this new way of worship will be rejected.

 And no one, after drinking old wine, wants new, because he says, ‘The old is better.’”  Luke 5:39

 The anointed are to be organized according to God’s way; yet, at this time period of the end, an “organization” has shattered the Temple, “trampled” God’s anointed House by men who “bind others’ consciences”.  This is the sign of the presence of the Man of Lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4

Okay, so why are the “Jews” that “ten” men seek out, so hard to find?  Because as I see you doing, you are looking for them to “organize” in the same pattern of the one you left. 

Restored spiritual “Israel” is “built” with God’s Spirit.  They will be the “capstone”, completing God’s Temple.  Zech 4:8-14; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 18:20  The anointed are gathering, but as small as they are (Amos 7:2); those believers that join them are becoming many. Ezek 36:6-11  They are spiritually “organized” according to the direction of Holy Spirit.  They are a spiritual "congregation", known completely by the Father and Jesus.    They make God’s “name” known; not as an organization that says it makes the name of God known, yet extols the work of man’s hands which the Watchtower has done, and then compare it to God.  Ps 50:16-23; (Isa 46)  Michael, who stands up for his people, proclaims the meaning of his name; “Who is like God?” (Joel 2:32)  The Watchtower and the majority of its members claim, “who or what is like Jehovah’s organization”? 

All the people of the world were amazed and followed the beast. ⁴ They worshiped the serpent because it had given authority to the beast. They also worshiped the beast and said, “Who is like the beast? Who can fight a war with it?” Rev 13:3b,4

The “two witnesses of Christ”/”wise virgins” side with him in this battle of truth against lies.  They do not need an organization as we know it, to do so.  Rev 12:7; 1 Cor 2:10   

In the first century every apostle was directed by Holy Spirit, not by a “governing body” in Jerusalem.  They may have taken care of a problem together on circumcision, but this doesn’t mean they were organized according to men.  Paul traveled everywhere that the spirit directed him.  Who sent Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch?  A GB?  It was Holy Spirit.  We have never read in the scriptures that the apostles and believers upheld and extolled an “organization” in Jerusalem.  Yet, Paul distinctly taught the anointed ones how they were part of God’s Temple/House. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 12. He concentrated on bringing this Body together, for them to learn who they were, and how they would serve God in the Kingdom.    If you will consider it, there is a good article on this:  http://holyspiritorgoverningbody-obadiah.blogspot.com/

During the time that the last Man of Lawless is revealed, what happens?

Don’t you remember that when I was still with you I used to tell you about this? ⁶ And you know what currently restrains him, so that he will be revealed in his time. ⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way, ⁸ and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of his mouth and will bring him to nothing at the appearance of his coming. 2 Thess 2:5-8

Through Holy Spirit, the “two witnesses”/anointed ones “prophesy” and reveal the Man of Lawlessness.   (Rev 4:11,14; Rev 11:1-3)  Their “words”, coming from Christ, judge and condemn.

The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,¹⁰ and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. ¹¹ For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, ¹² so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.  2 Thess 2:9-12

Do you really believe there is time to “organize” according to men’s direction, another earthly house of worship? John 4:23,24  It wouldn’t be successful.   This is why Jesus said,  “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in the (literal city of) Jerusalem. “  John 4:21

(I find it interesting that the name “Samaria” means “watch tower”!)

I feel you may be “kicking against the goads”.  Rely totally on the Father and Christ to lead you to truth.  Check out the links I have given you.  Understand that we are living close to the end.  Armageddon is fought, not in Satan’s earthly realm, but on the “low plain” or valley of decision”, revealing the intentions of the heart’s desires.  Joel 3:14-16; Matt 13:24-30 We either struggle to find and follow Christ and his truths, or rely on men’s twisted interpretation of scripture through organizational means.    Both come to us in totally different ways. 

 

The plans of the heart belong to humans,
    but an answer on the tongue comes from the Lord.
² A person thinks all his ways are pure,
    but the Lord weighs motives.
³ Entrust your efforts to the Lord,
    and your plans will succeed..  Prov 16:1-3

 

The end time preaching work is extraordinary; not at all as the Watchtower teaches.  Jesus said this preaching work would be to “Israel” – the anointed ones/Temple. Matt 10:23; Rev 11:1-3  They are the “kings of the earth”, God’s people now gathered in the Watchtower organization.  Rev 1:5; 19:19;21:24 (Rev 5:9,10)  They, along with all inside, are told to “come out of her” and leave her sins behind.  Rev 18:4-8

 

 

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

We will have to agree to differ. If you believe in a Judgement day / Armageddon time, then all people on the Earth have to be given a warning. 

The 'model prayer' asks for God's will to be done here on Earth as well as in heaven, that is one reason I fully believe that humans will live here on this Earth in perfect conditions. Though we come to this word perfect again, and I mean it in as much as conditions that God wants to exist. 

So i also believe that an Earthwide teaching work is needed to help people know what God wants from us. To do this the Anointed need to work together, that means being 'organised'. Whether you want to use the word Organisation is up to you. But in my opinion the work needs to be organised. 

I have no idea who the Anointed are. I have no real idea of what truth is anymore. I have no idea when the Judgement day will come. BUT,  I am not prepared to listen to just anyone that says they are anointed. 

I have what i will call snippets. Little bits of what I believe. But I'm a simple practical man, hence I complain about the Child Abuse, because it's a simple practical issue, though some on here try to complicate it, to make excuses for their leaders.

Although I no nothing for sure, it is my feeling that the Judgement day / time, is a long way off. My reasoning is that people need time to find the 'truth' from God through Jesus Christ, and conditions need to be much worse Earthwide so that people can see the seriousness of it all, and see the need for God's rule to take place.. 

Now i will be 70 this year, so i do not think I will see the Judgement day. And God's word says about the resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. I am definitely of the unrighteous, but if I'm right my death will guarantee me a resurrection. Time will tell. 

 

[Shiwiii]

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The 'model prayer' asks for God's will to be done here on Earth as well as in heaven, that is one reason I fully believe that humans will live here on this Earth in perfect conditions. Though we come to this word perfect again, and I mean it in as much as conditions that God wants to exist. 

I agree with this by Revelation stating that heaven will come down and God will dwell with His people. 

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 I am not prepared to listen to just anyone that says they are anointed.

wise decision and mine as well, because only God knows and if we seek Him, He will direct our paths. 

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I am definitely of the unrighteous, but if I'm right my death will guarantee me a resurrection. Time will tell. 

The Bible says you don't have to be. You can have your sins washed clean, right now. This is why Jesus died for us. If we come to Him and ask Him, He will wash us clean and take our blemishes and cast them away as far as the east is to the west so that you may stand before God and know you are covered. 

[Witness]

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

We will have to agree to differ.

We can do that.   

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

If you believe in a Judgement day / Armageddon time, then all people on the Earth have to be given a warning. 

We’ve had the full Bible for over 2,000 years.  The words of Christ are not new and have spread worldwide; and we don’t know what the anointed over that time period, accomplished.  We have the guarantee that the Father searches and “weighs” each heart; and would not abandon anyone who desires to serve only Him and His Son – “fully committed” to following His decrees in Christ.    Prov 21:2; 2 Chron 16:9

Although, judgment begins with God’s House – His people under covenant.  When we see the sins of His people come to light, then we know the end is near.  1 Pet 4:17

I encourage you to keep seeking out the anointed and the "fruit" they offer (John 13:20; Matt 7:18-20),  remembering that the coming Kingdom of God “does not come with observation”  Luke 17:20,21, but as a “thief in the night”, when God’s people (since judgment begins with His house , Eph 2:20-22) will be saying, “peace and security”.  1 Thess 5:1-3

Spiritual “peace and security” is offered by “Jehovah’s organization”, where the sins of God’s people are now being brought to light.  Rev 18:4-8

love in Christ,

peely

[Witness]

Corrections/additions of scripture:

On 1/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, Witness said:

 This is the sign of the presence of the Man of Lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4

The anointed are to be organized according to God’s way; yet, at this time period of the end, an “organization” has shattered the Temple, “trampled” God’s anointed House by men who “bind others’ consciences”.  This is the sign of the presence of the Man of Lawlessness.   Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2 

On 1/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, Witness said:

Restored spiritual “Israel” is “built” with God’s Spirit.  They will be the “capstone”, completing God’s Temple.  Zech 4:8-14; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 18:20  

Restored spiritual “Israel” is “built” with God’s Spirit. They will be the “capstone”, completing God’s Temple. 1 Pet 2:5,9; Zech 4:8-14; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 18:20

On 1/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, Witness said:

The “two witnesses of Christ”/”wise virgins” side with him in this battle of truth against lies.  They do not need an organization as we know it, to do so.  Rev 12:7; 1 Cor 2:10   

The “two witnesses” of Christ, (”wise virgins”) side with him in this battle of truth against lies. They do not need an organization as we know it, to do so. Matt 25:1,6-13; Rev 12:7; 1 Cor 2:6,10 

On 1/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, Witness said:

 A GB?  It was Holy Spirit.  We have never read in the scriptures that the apostles and believers upheld and extolled an “organization” in Jerusalem. 

A GB? It was Holy Spirit. Acts 8:26,27 We have never read in the scriptures that the apostles and believers upheld and extolled an “organization” in Jerusalem. 

On 1/11/2019 at 10:16 AM, Witness said:

Through Holy Spirit, the “two witnesses”/anointed ones “prophesy” and reveal the Man of Lawlessness.   (Rev 4:11,14; Rev 11:1-3)  Their “words”, coming from Christ, judge and condemn.

Through Holy Spirit, the “two witnesses”/anointed ones “prophesy” and reveal the Man of Lawlessness. (Dan 8:11; Rev 11:1-3) Their “words”, coming from Christ, judge and condemn. 

 

[Witness]

 

A comment was made by Pearl Doxsey on the opening topic when I posted it on facebook:

Although these verses do not specifically mention making investments in the very things you condemn among your followers; they do make clear that a servant of Christ does not mix their calling, with money or other gain. They do not exchange spiritual provisions, for money. Preaching doe

2Tim.2:3-4 reads; "3 Join with me in suffering, like a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4 No one serving as a soldier gets entangled in civilian affairs, but rather tries to please his commanding officer."
Jesus said; "16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” (John2)

Paul said; "17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God." (2Cor2)

s not require, material riches. The only purpose mentioned, for the money sack that the disciples of Jesus had, was to give to the poor.

The zeal of Jesus for his Father's house, made him express with outrage, his offense that commercialism should have anything to do with worship. Paul made clear that when Jesus said; "You received free; give free" (Matt10:8), that those whom you feed spiritually, should not be obliged to give money (or anything else) to you. That is what we see in Rev.13:17... that the Wild Beasts set up a monopoly of spiritual provisions. The WT is guilty of violating all these verses.

 

 Obedience, service, and worship, are also "goods" that should belong to God, but at times, men also covet them in exchange for spiritual food. 

The WT stated; ""we may be asked to do something by Jehovahs' organization, and we must be ready to obey even if it does not seem reasonable from a human standpoint or not".

Why would such blind obedience be necessary, if the scriptures really directed a course of action, among those supposedly dedicated to God? If the scriptures are Not behind a directive... then no man has a right to expect, conformance! Rom.6:16 makes clear, that whoever we obey, we are their slave. 1Cor7:23; Luke4:8 and Gal1:10 make clear, that we must only obey and serve God and Christ. Whatever we do, must be directed, by them. In loyalty to God and in exclusive devotion; genuine Christians, are guided only by scripture... not by an unreasonable demand by human beings.