Forced "new light", but only slightly

[JOHN BUTLER]

8 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

To be clear:

The new rules now allow elders (para. 15) to go to the authorities once an allegation of CSA has been made without fear of retaliation by headquarters. AND two witnesses aren't needed to do this (even though two witnesses are still needed for judicial action🙄). In addition to this, emphasis is given that the reporting party will not bring reproach on jehovahs name. Para. 14- "But what if the report is about someone who is a part of the congregation and the matter then becomes known in the community? Should the Christian who reported it feel that he has brought reproach on God’s name? No. The abuser is the one who brings reproach on God’s name."

The new rules now ALLOW Elders, are now there's the rub, ALLOW. It only allows them to, but if it is an accusation against a fellow Elder they might not want to report it to the outside authorities. So nothing gained. 

And if there are not Two Witnesses then elders may feel there is 'no case to answer' as there is no real proof. Remember that they have been indoctrinated for years. New rules might not make any difference to their attitudes. 

[Melinda Mills]

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Um, Scripture, SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES ARE IN PLACE BECAUSE GOD WANTS THEM THERE. THEY ARE DOING GOD'S WORK IN THIS OLD SYSTEM OF THINGS. THEY ARE THERE TO PUNISH THOSE WHO BREAK THE LAW. 

Sorry it's all capitals but you seem a bit blind. 

I am sure you won't wish a cop living in your home. In any case it was not a serious suggestion by Tom.

[JOHN BUTLER]

58 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

I am sure you won't wish a cop living in your home. In any case it was not a serious suggestion by Tom.

I apologise, I didn't link your comment with TTH's comment. And I can now see where you were coming from.

Ops, sorry.  

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:02 AM, Melinda Mills said:

Never saw CSA in a publication. Seems you will be soon be using USA however you like.  CSA means Canadian Standards Association, along with the others mentioned above.  

you ridicules other, so  why not to ridicule your ridicules.

  Canadian Soccer Association is right choice  ....

Canadian Snowbird Association is better choice....

but if you continue in looking more on list, you will finally come to CONTEXT :))))))) 

[Srecko Sostar]

15 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

But the cops might be immoral too, or even pedophiles also.Who knows. Would create a bigger problem.

 

.... you are so right, ..... well why not to thing the same about JW elders, according to same logic????

[Anna]

 

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Never told about Court cases and out of Court deals, and how much money WT gave, by Court decision or by settlement, to victims. Omitting to talk about it, on JWTV

What do you think they should say?

[Anna]

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Would there have been an inquiry by the ARC if all were disfellowshipped? 

Yes, there would have still been an inquiry. The ARC wasn't concerned about church discipline or ex- communication. The ARC wanted the police informed. Which practically no one in society did in those days. This is why the ARC was set up in the first place, to address a national problem, so that the government could put specific laws in place so that the issue of child abuse could be addressed better. 

You didn't answer my question: Do you have all the facts and detail regarding those cases?

[Srecko Sostar]

44 minutes ago, Anna said:

 

What do you think they should say?

- truthful information's about all cases from past to today

- put free space for listeners to make own conclusions and possibility to express it in responding comments, letters, talks, etc.

- list of those who are dfd for molestation's 

- list of those who are sentenced by Courts for molestation's

- how much money was payed for various expenses  

- collectively asking for forgiveness, apologize to victims

 

I am sure how some of this points you would support too. :))    

[JOHN BUTLER]

Still waiting to hear about the new IICSA inquiry here in UK. They are so busy looking into so many other organisations.

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/ 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

You didn't answer my question: Do you have all the facts and detail regarding those cases?

This...

9 hours ago, Witness said:

Nope.  Would there have been an inquiry by the ARC if all were disfellowshipped?  Would there be one lawsuit against the WT if a victim's plea for justice was well respected, and decisions were made according to Christ's words to "love your neighbor as yourself"?  

Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:14-16

However, is the GB "ashamed of their detestable conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD."   Jer 8:12

 

...was meant for you.  I inadvertently quoted myself.   

As far as answering questions, there are approximately 6 in my return comment to you, made Thursday at 9:48 AM .  I hope that you reason from scriptures; those above and those on the topics in Thursday's comment.  You appear to ignore their message.  

 

[Anna]

Before I respond, I would like to say, and I am sure you would agree, the main objective of ANY action would be to protect children by preventing child abuse from happening.  So in view of that:

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

- truthful information's about all cases from past to today 

How would that help?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

- put free space for listeners to make own conclusions and possibility to express it in responding comments, letters, talks, etc.

How would that be helpful in preventing child abuse?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

list of those who are dfd for molestation's ...... - list of those who are sentenced by Courts for molestation's

Would this list be posted on JW.org? And would their addresses be there too? I am sure this is actually illegal, at least in the United States. Only the Police have the right to make such a list, it's called the sex offender registry. Do you have something similar in Croatia?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

how much money was payed for various expenses   

How would that protect children?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

- collectively asking for forgiveness, apologize to victims

This is one point I agree with.  I do know that elders have apologized to victims on an individual basis if they have mishandled a case. But it's unrealistic and unfair to have to apologize in all instances. How can elders apologize for the sexual misconduct of a father against his children, especially if the elders have no idea such molestation has been going on? Because remember, molesters do this in secret and they are very good at hiding what they do. It may be years later, when the child grows up, that the elders find out. As for collectively, as an organization....perhaps it will happen.

[TrueTomHarley]

14 hours ago, Anna said:

But it's unrealistic and unfair to have to apologize in all instances. How can elders apologize for the sexual misconduct of a father against his children, especially if 

Of course. This demand for public apologies is largely a PR event. It is worth noting that when Australia apologized and opposers praised that apology to the heavens because they thought they could thereby embarrass JWs, the victims nonetheless rejected it as ‘too little, too late.’

I think it also fits in well with a certain legal strategy in that it constitutes a clear admission of guilt, thereafter better enabling lawsuits. Few things are done for the noble ‘window-dressing’ reasons that are given.